Rip off Ireland - British Chains taking the p1ss especially

luckylucky · 08-11-2008 11:54PM #1

Nothing new I know. When I come home for visits I'm really horrified at the cost of things. Nevertheless I accept that when a country has a higher standard of living then it follows that prices are higher, but what really has got up my goat the last few times I've come home is the likes of Boots and Debenhams. In Debenhams especially the prices are displayed in both Sterling and Euros. Now over the last couple of months the euro price should be roughly 1.25 times the sterling price - but instead items are almost always more than 1.5 times. When I lived in the UK I used to buy a fair few things from Debenhams, in ireland now I'd only buy stuff if it was very reduced. I really think that they are taking the p1ss out of the Irish consumer.

I hear Dunnes Stores might be bought out by Asda - I really hope that either this does not happen or that some euroszone chains come in as an alternative/competition to British Chains.

08-11-2008 11:57PM

pisses me off no end when I see it and I can often be heard asking a mate or whatever unlucky person is with me, who the hell does their conversions?

Sherifu · 09-11-2008 12:00AM

The conversions will never favour the consumer. They do take the piss in some places. Shop around.

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 12:02AM

Sherifu wrote: »

The conversions will never favour the consumer.

Well not the Irish one anyway evidently.

Sherifu wrote: »

They do take the piss in some places. Shop around.

Hopefully with the reality check of the recession people might perhaps start to do this.

ramjee_kapar · 09-11-2008 12:03AM

VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK. The price differences I'm sure are justifiable.

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 12:07AM

ramjee_kapar wrote: »

VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK. The price differences I'm sure are justifiable.

Lol you're sure are you :rolleyes:

So they changed that much from a year ago.... because the differences haven't changed from then you see... when the rate was actually over 1.5 euro to the pound.

You see I think the price differences have a lot more to do with the fact that they know they can get away with it - either because
a. Many Irish people are not aware of the actual exchange rate.
b. The prevalence of the 'Ah sher so what' attitude.
c. The extraordinarily naive and gullible who think there is an actual reasonalble explanation for it.

Gummy Panda · 09-11-2008 12:21AM

luckylucky wrote: »

Lol you're sure are you :rolleyes:

So they changed that much from a year ago.... because the differences haven't changed from then you see... when the rate was actually over 1.5 euro to the pound.

You see I think the price differences have a lot more to do with the fact that they know they can get away with it - either because
a. Many Irish people are not aware of the actual exchange rate.
b. The prevalence of the 'Ah sher so what' attitude.
c. The extraordinarily naive and gullible who think there is an actual reasonalble explanation for it.

The exchange rate is not the only factor.

like already posted VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 12:41AM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

The exchange rate is not the only factor.

I realise that. But nevertheless it's pretty apparent that the pricing done by these companies is linked to the exchange rate of when the British pound was strong against the euro. as the Euro climbed in value against sterling these firms conveniently sticked to the same rate instead of updating the exchange rate.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

like already posted VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland. Energy costs too. Minimum wage and Vat are higher in Ireland alright I think. Anyway either way I don't think these are the factors that come into play here. Would be a major conicidence that since the euro climbed about 20% against the pound that also the costs for Debenhams in Ireland rose over 20% more than they did in the UK. Eh I don't think so

Afaik they were no significant changes in costs in this period for Debenhams to warrant 20% higher prices than the UK stores that didn't exist before the Euro climbed againt the Pound.

ejmaztec · 09-11-2008 01:04AM

Surprisingly, prices are different all over the world. Strange but true. :rolleyes:

Blush_01 · 09-11-2008 01:08AM

iirc, M&S are one of the worst offenders.

MagicMarker · 09-11-2008 01:09AM

Just do what i do, steal.

old boy · 09-11-2008 01:11AM

vote with your cash

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 01:17AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Surprisingly, prices are different all over the world. Strange but true. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
Surprisingly I think most people know this... that's not my point.

The fact that a liitle over a year ago when the exchange rate was approx £1 = €1.50 an item in Debenhams costing £45 would set you back typically €70.

So you were approximately paying about €3 more in Ireland than in the UK for a £45 item then. The different costs arguments could have well have been the reason for this - I can go with it at least. But now over a year down the line when £1 = €1.23 a £45 item in Debenhams still costs €70. I mean c'mon it's f'in obvious what's going on here. Anyway I say fair play to Debenhams and Boots tbh - it's evident that they are still plenty of the ol stereptypical Oirish who are more fool to go for it, if so they deserve to be parted from their moneys.

aidan_walsh · 09-11-2008 01:21AM

Why do people expect that shops are going to charge the same prices in markets of different sizes with different levels of competition?

ejmaztec · 09-11-2008 01:29AM

luckylucky wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Surprisingly I think most people know this... that's not my point.

The fact that a liitle over a year ago when the exchange rate was approx £1 = €1.50 an item in Debenhams costing £45 would set you back typically €70.

So you were approximately paying about €3 more in Ireland than in the UK for a £45 item then. The different costs arguments could have well have been the reason for this - I can go with it at least. But now over a year down the line when £1 = €1.23 a £45 item in Debenhams still costs €70. I mean c'mon it's f'in obvious what's going on here. Anyway I say fair play to Debenhams and Boots tbh - it's evident that they are still plenty of the ol stereptypical Oirish who are more fool to go for it, if so they deserve to be parted from their moneys.

Ireland has always been a highly profitable retail market, the prices having been pumped up by the home-grown robbers, long before the competition moved in. You can't blame foreign retailers for getting in on the act. The upside of the latter invasion is that the original robbers have had to curb their greed to compete with the new influx.

The way things are going at the moment, it won't be too log before the new arrivals start to drift away, leaving the old robbers to pump up their prices again.

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 01:29AM

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Why do people expect that shops are going to charge the same prices in markets of different sizes with different levels of competition?

I know this is the AH forum but God almighty it really doesn't take a genius to get my point.

I live in Portugal - low wages low costs = low prices. Fine I accept that Irish prices are a lot more than here. Just like in India prices are even lower again than here.

The Uk however is similar to Ireland - slightly lower wages perhaps and perhaps slightly lower costs overall.

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland. I seriously seriously doubt it's because costs have risen in the same time by so much in comparison to their home country of the UK. Anyway it doesn't even affect me that much since I don't even live in Ireland anymore but it irks me - hopefully some people will actually get my point :rolleyes:

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 01:32AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ireland has always been a highly profitable retail market, the prices having been pumped up by the home-grown robbers, long before the competition moved in. You can't blame foreign retailers for getting in on the act. The upside of the latter invasion is that the original robbers have had to curb their greed to compete with the new influx.

The way things are going at the moment, it won't be too log before the new arrivals start to drift away, leaving the old robbers to pump up their prices again.

No I don't blame them at all, that's what their in business for to make money. the typical UK consumer is much more savvy than the Irish one though. But it's on forums like this that people can become more aware of what's going on and maybe if there's some sort of attitude change it might make a difference in peoples pockets.

ramjee_kapar · 09-11-2008 01:54AM

luckylucky wrote: »

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland.

How do you know there hasn't, have you done weekly inventory for them for the last year?

OPENROAD · 09-11-2008 02:00AM

OP what about irish stores charging higher prices in the Republic compared to NI?

OPENROAD · 09-11-2008 02:02AM

luckylucky wrote: »

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland. I seriously seriously doubt it's because costs have risen in the same time by so much in comparison to their home country of the UK. Anyway it doesn't even affect me that much since I don't even live in Ireland anymore but it irks me - hopefully some people will actually get my point :rolleyes:

Boots prices have gone down for me on products I buy from them.

Spyral · 09-11-2008 02:07AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifu View Post
The conversions will never favour the consumer.
Well not the Irish one anyway evidently.

the best of BS that I heard once was that 'well they need to make the same amount of money that they were before so to get the same amount of sterling from you they have put up the prices more'

eg prouct X costs £100, and E150 in ireland when the pound buys E1.50.

next week the pound only buys E1.25 so they are 'loosing' 25c therefore to get the equivilent of £100 they charge us more in euros.

that is the logic of games workshop plc =p

OPENROAD · 09-11-2008 02:13AM

Spyral wrote: »

the best of BS that I heard once was that 'well they need to make the same amount of money that they were before so to get the same amount of sterling from you they have put up the prices more'

eg prouct X costs £100, and E150 in ireland when the pound buys E1.50.

next week the pound only buys E1.25 so they are 'loosing' 25c therefore to get the equivilent of £100 they charge us more in euros.

that is the logic of games workshop plc =p

So why do Irish stores with operations in NI engage in the same practice?

OPENROAD · 09-11-2008 02:21AM

luckylucky wrote: »

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland. Energy costs too.

Electricity costs are double the cost in Ireland.

amcalester · 09-11-2008 03:17AM

Ireland and the UK are 2 different countries and as such prices between the 2 cannot be directly compared. Its also very naive to think that they can.

Being 2 different countries means that companies have to take different things into consideration. For instance the minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65 while in the UK it's £5.73 or roughly €7, corporate tax rates are 12.5% in Ireland and 28% in the UK. In Ireland workers get a minimum of 29 paid days off a year (20 Holidays and 9 Bank Holidays) while in the UK they get 32 (24 Holidays from April 2009 and 8 Bank Holidays).

Theres also the difference in the cost of purchasing or building the store, the cost of electricity, gas, telephone, insurance, the list is endless.

Remember as well that Ireland is a relatively small market compared to the UK making it harder to make a profit, this also means that there is a lack of competition in the market which in turn keeps prices high.

Just because something costs £10 in the UK doesnt mean that it should cost €12.22 in Ireland, thats not how the world works.

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 11:20AM

I really can't believe how dumb people are sometimes :eek:. If you want to believe that it's a normal situation for a £1 product to cost €1.50 back in the Summer of 2007 when the real exchange rate was a bit under £1 = €1.50, and now in November 2008 when the exchange rate is at £1=€1.23 a £1 product still costs €1.50.

If anybody honestly believes this big differential is due to the changes in cost in just over 1 year between the UK and Irish markets then quite frankly they are complete idiots and deserve to get ripped off. If the £1 product cost even €1.33 then perhaps then it could be said a bit more realistically that it was due to the differing costs of the 2 markets. Surely it's normal to expect a major change in the exchange rate should be reflected somewhere along the line in the pricing of these chains. Well it would be if consumers were on the ball, but when the consumers aren't as in the Irish market it makes sense not to bother to readjust the pricing.

Anyway predictably enough I suppose the messenger gets shot down and red herrings like it's 2 different markets (well no sh1t Sherlock).... my point is 15 months ago the pricing in these stores were such that you were paying a few percent more in Ireland for stuff, now it's over 20% more. If you can't or don't want to see the obvious here well it's down to you and let's make it clear I really don't blame the UK chains or any other shops for ripping you off if you are prepared to allow them to get away with it.

Mark200 · 09-11-2008 11:30AM

luckylucky wrote: »

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland.

A lot lower. Ireland is 12.5% and the UK is somewhere in the 20s if I remember correctly.

AMHRASACH · 09-11-2008 11:45AM

. . if there was value for money in the ROI, people wouldn't be going to Newry in droves to do their shopping. I'm in full agreement with you Luckylucky but you're floggin' a dead horse here.

SimpleSam06 · 09-11-2008 12:00PM

amcalester wrote: »

Ireland and the UK are 2 different countries and as such prices between the 2 cannot be directly compared. Its also very naive to think that they can.

Indeed, prices should be considerably cheaper in Ireland with the corporate tax rate. For comparable products, we should be paying 15.5% less than the equivalent in the UK, and the shops would still make their money. This is profiteering from the chains on the back of the "Celtic tiger", plain and simple.

amcalester wrote: »

Remember as well that Ireland is a relatively small market compared to the UK making it harder to make a profit, this also means that there is a lack of competition in the market which in turn keeps prices high.

Sorry now, the fact that there aren't as many consumers doesn't mean the existing consumers should be punished.

amcalester wrote: »

Just because something costs £10 in the UK doesnt mean that it should cost €12.22 in Ireland, thats not how the world works.

Given the logistical power of these huge chains, that exactly how it should work. Why do you think its cheaper to ship raw ore across the pacific from the US to China for processing and back, than just work it in the US? Logistics.

On a semi related note, 4 of the last 5 shops I went into tried to shortchange me, in one case by half the price of the product. In Dunnes on Friday the cashier tried to convince me that €5 + €1.23 + €2.80 = €10.30. We even got the manager over. Check your receipts and change, don't let them hurry you on, this crap is rampant!

luckylucky · 09-11-2008 12:07PM

AMHRASACH wrote: »

you're floggin' a dead horse here.

Yip, looks that way alright

Here I'll give it one last go....

I actually asked a guy in a small British owned chain 'Suits You' who again were charging items at approx the same extortionate exchange rate of £1 = €1.50 or even higher, why this was the case. His excuse was that the Irish branches had been contacting their UK head office about it but they said they would get around to it but they would have to change their systems around for the new pricing... sounds like a lame excuse to me, you can be sure they'd get it sorted quick if the rate had gone to £1 = €1.80. Anyway if the Irish branch was asking the pricing to be changed I'd say it's another indicator that the weird hypothesis that several people in this thread advocate that costs in Ireland rose so much in 15 months that prices in these stores should rise in real terms(vis-a-vis sterling) by 20% is not an accurate hypthesis and that the one I advocate that British and other chains are taking advantage of the change in exchange rate to reap extra profit is far more likely. I find it strange that so many people are willing believe in that weird hypothesis and think that big business are not trying to pull the woll over thier eyes

Gummy Panda · 09-11-2008 12:17PM

Depends on the person.

If its too expensive don't pay for it. Debehams and others have been having loads of sales due to this.

IIRC, most businesses don't do a flat conversion on items in a different market. They price them based on what they feel is the value for them on this market.

i know a few people who worked in the rag trade for big clothing groups, I'll ask them about how the pricing is done when i see them next.

The_Conductor · 09-11-2008 12:33PM

luckylucky wrote: »

I live in Portugal - low wages low costs = low prices. Fine I accept that Irish prices are a lot more than here. Just like in India prices are even lower again than here.

I accept what you're saying as a generalisation- but I would qualify that with an observation that electrical goods (in general) are a total rip off in Portugal. Even if you visit the German multiples (Aldi etc) and price electrical goods there you will find identical goods in their branches in Ireland often for 30-40% less than their Portuguese prices. Visit your local Vodafone shop and price a range of their phones, and compare it to Irish prices (and indeed price plans), once again I think you'll be very surprised.

What really gets my goat though is kitchen ware- such as a simple kettle, toaster, microwave etc- in general these can be gotten for half the Portuguese price in Dublin.........

Also- like to see you wander into a major Portuguese shop selling household goods and buying a couple of things and haggling a 10% discount......... DID Electrical, Powercity and some of the other outlets are more than happy to give you an on-the-spot discount......

Food, alcohol and tobacco are a lot cheaper in Portugal- Electrical goods and fuel are vastly cheaper in Ireland.......

Swings and roundabouts.......

Rip off Ireland - British Chains taking the p1ss especially

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