Rip off Ireland - British Chains taking the p1ss especially

luckylucky

Nothing new I know. When I come home for visits I'm really horrified at the cost of things. Nevertheless I accept that when a country has a higher standard of living then it follows that prices are higher, but what really has got up my goat the last few times I've come home is the likes of Boots and Debenhams. In Debenhams especially the prices are displayed in both Sterling and Euros. Now over the last couple of months the euro price should be roughly 1.25 times the sterling price - but instead items are almost always more than 1.5 times. When I lived in the UK I used to buy a fair few things from Debenhams, in ireland now I'd only buy stuff if it was very reduced. I really think that they are taking the p1ss out of the Irish consumer.

I hear Dunnes Stores might be bought out by Asda - I really hope that either this does not happen or that some euroszone chains come in as an alternative/competition to British Chains.

Jay D

pisses me off no end when I see it and I can often be heard asking a mate or whatever unlucky person is with me, who the hell does their conversions?

Sherifu

The conversions will never favour the consumer. They do take the piss in some places. Shop around.

luckylucky

Sherifu wrote: »

The conversions will never favour the consumer.

Well not the Irish one anyway evidently.

Sherifu wrote: »

They do take the piss in some places. Shop around.

Hopefully with the reality check of the recession people might perhaps start to do this.

ramjee_kapar

VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK. The price differences I'm sure are justifiable.

luckylucky

ramjee_kapar wrote: »

VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK. The price differences I'm sure are justifiable.

Lol you're sure are you :rolleyes:

So they changed that much from a year ago.... because the differences haven't changed from then you see... when the rate was actually over 1.5 euro to the pound.

You see I think the price differences have a lot more to do with the fact that they know they can get away with it - either because
a. Many Irish people are not aware of the actual exchange rate.
b. The prevalence of the 'Ah sher so what' attitude.
c. The extraordinarily naive and gullible who think there is an actual reasonalble explanation for it.

Gummy Panda

luckylucky wrote: »

Lol you're sure are you :rolleyes:

So they changed that much from a year ago.... because the differences haven't changed from then you see... when the rate was actually over 1.5 euro to the pound.

You see I think the price differences have a lot more to do with the fact that they know they can get away with it - either because
a. Many Irish people are not aware of the actual exchange rate.
b. The prevalence of the 'Ah sher so what' attitude.
c. The extraordinarily naive and gullible who think there is an actual reasonalble explanation for it.

The exchange rate is not the only factor.

like already posted VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK

luckylucky

Gummy Panda wrote: »

The exchange rate is not the only factor.

I realise that. But nevertheless it's pretty apparent that the pricing done by these companies is linked to the exchange rate of when the British pound was strong against the euro. as the Euro climbed in value against sterling these firms conveniently sticked to the same rate instead of updating the exchange rate.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

like already posted VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland. Energy costs too. Minimum wage and Vat are higher in Ireland alright I think. Anyway either way I don't think these are the factors that come into play here. Would be a major conicidence that since the euro climbed about 20% against the pound that also the costs for Debenhams in Ireland rose over 20% more than they did in the UK. Eh I don't think so

Afaik they were no significant changes in costs in this period for Debenhams to warrant 20% higher prices than the UK stores that didn't exist before the Euro climbed againt the Pound.

ejmaztec

Surprisingly, prices are different all over the world. Strange but true. :rolleyes:

Blush_01

iirc, M&S are one of the worst offenders.

MagicMarker

Just do what i do, steal.

old boy

vote with your cash

luckylucky

ejmaztec wrote: »

Surprisingly, prices are different all over the world. Strange but true. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
Surprisingly I think most people know this... that's not my point.

The fact that a liitle over a year ago when the exchange rate was approx £1 = €1.50 an item in Debenhams costing £45 would set you back typically €70.

So you were approximately paying about €3 more in Ireland than in the UK for a £45 item then. The different costs arguments could have well have been the reason for this - I can go with it at least. But now over a year down the line when £1 = €1.23 a £45 item in Debenhams still costs €70. I mean c'mon it's f'in obvious what's going on here. Anyway I say fair play to Debenhams and Boots tbh - it's evident that they are still plenty of the ol stereptypical Oirish who are more fool to go for it, if so they deserve to be parted from their moneys.

aidan_walsh

Why do people expect that shops are going to charge the same prices in markets of different sizes with different levels of competition?

ejmaztec

luckylucky wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Surprisingly I think most people know this... that's not my point.

The fact that a liitle over a year ago when the exchange rate was approx £1 = €1.50 an item in Debenhams costing £45 would set you back typically €70.

So you were approximately paying about €3 more in Ireland than in the UK for a £45 item then. The different costs arguments could have well have been the reason for this - I can go with it at least. But now over a year down the line when £1 = €1.23 a £45 item in Debenhams still costs €70. I mean c'mon it's f'in obvious what's going on here. Anyway I say fair play to Debenhams and Boots tbh - it's evident that they are still plenty of the ol stereptypical Oirish who are more fool to go for it, if so they deserve to be parted from their moneys.

Ireland has always been a highly profitable retail market, the prices having been pumped up by the home-grown robbers, long before the competition moved in. You can't blame foreign retailers for getting in on the act. The upside of the latter invasion is that the original robbers have had to curb their greed to compete with the new influx.

The way things are going at the moment, it won't be too log before the new arrivals start to drift away, leaving the old robbers to pump up their prices again.

luckylucky

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Why do people expect that shops are going to charge the same prices in markets of different sizes with different levels of competition?

I know this is the AH forum but God almighty it really doesn't take a genius to get my point.

I live in Portugal - low wages low costs = low prices. Fine I accept that Irish prices are a lot more than here. Just like in India prices are even lower again than here.

The Uk however is similar to Ireland - slightly lower wages perhaps and perhaps slightly lower costs overall.

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland. I seriously seriously doubt it's because costs have risen in the same time by so much in comparison to their home country of the UK. Anyway it doesn't even affect me that much since I don't even live in Ireland anymore but it irks me - hopefully some people will actually get my point :rolleyes:

luckylucky

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ireland has always been a highly profitable retail market, the prices having been pumped up by the home-grown robbers, long before the competition moved in. You can't blame foreign retailers for getting in on the act. The upside of the latter invasion is that the original robbers have had to curb their greed to compete with the new influx.

The way things are going at the moment, it won't be too log before the new arrivals start to drift away, leaving the old robbers to pump up their prices again.

No I don't blame them at all, that's what their in business for to make money. the typical UK consumer is much more savvy than the Irish one though. But it's on forums like this that people can become more aware of what's going on and maybe if there's some sort of attitude change it might make a difference in peoples pockets.

ramjee_kapar

luckylucky wrote: »

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland.

How do you know there hasn't, have you done weekly inventory for them for the last year?

OPENROAD

OP what about irish stores charging higher prices in the Republic compared to NI?

OPENROAD

luckylucky wrote: »

But again why has there been absolutely no change in the prices with Debenhams, Boots and other UK outlets over the last 15-18 months in Ireland. I seriously seriously doubt it's because costs have risen in the same time by so much in comparison to their home country of the UK. Anyway it doesn't even affect me that much since I don't even live in Ireland anymore but it irks me - hopefully some people will actually get my point :rolleyes:

Boots prices have gone down for me on products I buy from them.

Spyral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifu View Post
The conversions will never favour the consumer.
Well not the Irish one anyway evidently.

the best of BS that I heard once was that 'well they need to make the same amount of money that they were before so to get the same amount of sterling from you they have put up the prices more'

eg prouct X costs £100, and E150 in ireland when the pound buys E1.50.

next week the pound only buys E1.25 so they are 'loosing' 25c therefore to get the equivilent of £100 they charge us more in euros.

that is the logic of games workshop plc =p

OPENROAD

Spyral wrote: »

the best of BS that I heard once was that 'well they need to make the same amount of money that they were before so to get the same amount of sterling from you they have put up the prices more'

eg prouct X costs £100, and E150 in ireland when the pound buys E1.50.

next week the pound only buys E1.25 so they are 'loosing' 25c therefore to get the equivilent of £100 they charge us more in euros.

that is the logic of games workshop plc =p

So why do Irish stores with operations in NI engage in the same practice?

OPENROAD

luckylucky wrote: »

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland. Energy costs too.

Electricity costs are double the cost in Ireland.

amcalester

Ireland and the UK are 2 different countries and as such prices between the 2 cannot be directly compared. Its also very naive to think that they can.

Being 2 different countries means that companies have to take different things into consideration. For instance the minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65 while in the UK it's £5.73 or roughly €7, corporate tax rates are 12.5% in Ireland and 28% in the UK. In Ireland workers get a minimum of 29 paid days off a year (20 Holidays and 9 Bank Holidays) while in the UK they get 32 (24 Holidays from April 2009 and 8 Bank Holidays).

Theres also the difference in the cost of purchasing or building the store, the cost of electricity, gas, telephone, insurance, the list is endless.

Remember as well that Ireland is a relatively small market compared to the UK making it harder to make a profit, this also means that there is a lack of competition in the market which in turn keeps prices high.

Just because something costs £10 in the UK doesnt mean that it should cost €12.22 in Ireland, thats not how the world works.

luckylucky

I really can't believe how dumb people are sometimes :eek:. If you want to believe that it's a normal situation for a £1 product to cost €1.50 back in the Summer of 2007 when the real exchange rate was a bit under £1 = €1.50, and now in November 2008 when the exchange rate is at £1=€1.23 a £1 product still costs €1.50.

If anybody honestly believes this big differential is due to the changes in cost in just over 1 year between the UK and Irish markets then quite frankly they are complete idiots and deserve to get ripped off. If the £1 product cost even €1.33 then perhaps then it could be said a bit more realistically that it was due to the differing costs of the 2 markets. Surely it's normal to expect a major change in the exchange rate should be reflected somewhere along the line in the pricing of these chains. Well it would be if consumers were on the ball, but when the consumers aren't as in the Irish market it makes sense not to bother to readjust the pricing.

Anyway predictably enough I suppose the messenger gets shot down and red herrings like it's 2 different markets (well no sh1t Sherlock).... my point is 15 months ago the pricing in these stores were such that you were paying a few percent more in Ireland for stuff, now it's over 20% more. If you can't or don't want to see the obvious here well it's down to you and let's make it clear I really don't blame the UK chains or any other shops for ripping you off if you are prepared to allow them to get away with it.

Mark200

luckylucky wrote: »

Corporate Taxes afaik are lower in Ireland.

A lot lower. Ireland is 12.5% and the UK is somewhere in the 20s if I remember correctly.

AMHRASACH

. . if there was value for money in the ROI, people wouldn't be going to Newry in droves to do their shopping. I'm in full agreement with you Luckylucky but you're floggin' a dead horse here.

SimpleSam06

amcalester wrote: »

Ireland and the UK are 2 different countries and as such prices between the 2 cannot be directly compared. Its also very naive to think that they can.

Indeed, prices should be considerably cheaper in Ireland with the corporate tax rate. For comparable products, we should be paying 15.5% less than the equivalent in the UK, and the shops would still make their money. This is profiteering from the chains on the back of the "Celtic tiger", plain and simple.

amcalester wrote: »

Remember as well that Ireland is a relatively small market compared to the UK making it harder to make a profit, this also means that there is a lack of competition in the market which in turn keeps prices high.

Sorry now, the fact that there aren't as many consumers doesn't mean the existing consumers should be punished.

amcalester wrote: »

Just because something costs £10 in the UK doesnt mean that it should cost €12.22 in Ireland, thats not how the world works.

Given the logistical power of these huge chains, that exactly how it should work. Why do you think its cheaper to ship raw ore across the pacific from the US to China for processing and back, than just work it in the US? Logistics.

On a semi related note, 4 of the last 5 shops I went into tried to shortchange me, in one case by half the price of the product. In Dunnes on Friday the cashier tried to convince me that €5 + €1.23 + €2.80 = €10.30. We even got the manager over. Check your receipts and change, don't let them hurry you on, this crap is rampant!

luckylucky

AMHRASACH wrote: »

you're floggin' a dead horse here.

Yip, looks that way alright

Here I'll give it one last go....

I actually asked a guy in a small British owned chain 'Suits You' who again were charging items at approx the same extortionate exchange rate of £1 = €1.50 or even higher, why this was the case. His excuse was that the Irish branches had been contacting their UK head office about it but they said they would get around to it but they would have to change their systems around for the new pricing... sounds like a lame excuse to me, you can be sure they'd get it sorted quick if the rate had gone to £1 = €1.80. Anyway if the Irish branch was asking the pricing to be changed I'd say it's another indicator that the weird hypothesis that several people in this thread advocate that costs in Ireland rose so much in 15 months that prices in these stores should rise in real terms(vis-a-vis sterling) by 20% is not an accurate hypthesis and that the one I advocate that British and other chains are taking advantage of the change in exchange rate to reap extra profit is far more likely. I find it strange that so many people are willing believe in that weird hypothesis and think that big business are not trying to pull the woll over thier eyes

Gummy Panda

Depends on the person.

If its too expensive don't pay for it. Debehams and others have been having loads of sales due to this.

IIRC, most businesses don't do a flat conversion on items in a different market. They price them based on what they feel is the value for them on this market.

i know a few people who worked in the rag trade for big clothing groups, I'll ask them about how the pricing is done when i see them next.

The_Conductor

luckylucky wrote: »

I live in Portugal - low wages low costs = low prices. Fine I accept that Irish prices are a lot more than here. Just like in India prices are even lower again than here.

I accept what you're saying as a generalisation- but I would qualify that with an observation that electrical goods (in general) are a total rip off in Portugal. Even if you visit the German multiples (Aldi etc) and price electrical goods there you will find identical goods in their branches in Ireland often for 30-40% less than their Portuguese prices. Visit your local Vodafone shop and price a range of their phones, and compare it to Irish prices (and indeed price plans), once again I think you'll be very surprised.

What really gets my goat though is kitchen ware- such as a simple kettle, toaster, microwave etc- in general these can be gotten for half the Portuguese price in Dublin.........

Also- like to see you wander into a major Portuguese shop selling household goods and buying a couple of things and haggling a 10% discount......... DID Electrical, Powercity and some of the other outlets are more than happy to give you an on-the-spot discount......

Food, alcohol and tobacco are a lot cheaper in Portugal- Electrical goods and fuel are vastly cheaper in Ireland.......

Swings and roundabouts.......

Fighting Irish

luckylucky wrote: »

Nothing new I know. When I come home for visits I'm really horrified at the cost of things. Nevertheless I accept that when a country has a higher standard of living then it follows that prices are higher, but what really has got up my goat the last few times I've come home is the likes of Boots and Debenhams. In Debenhams especially the prices are displayed in both Sterling and Euros. Now over the last couple of months the euro price should be roughly 1.25 times the sterling price - but instead items are almost always more than 1.5 times. When I lived in the UK I used to buy a fair few things from Debenhams, in ireland now I'd only buy stuff if it was very reduced. I really think that they are taking the p1ss out of the Irish consumer.

I hear Dunnes Stores might be bought out by Asda - I really hope that either this does not happen or that some euroszone chains come in as an alternative/competition to British Chains.

Like most business's, they charge what people will pay. "Rip Off Ireland" is a joke

Don't like a price, don't pay

thelordofcheese

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Like most business's, they charge what people will pay. "Rip Off Ireland" is a joke

Don't like a price, don't pay

This. A thousand times this.
Thread over, folks. Go home.

ArmaniJeanss

luckylucky,
lets say the Irish or Portuguese branch of Debenhams made a profit of €50M last year.
If they reduced the € price in accordance with the exchange rate (and sales remained the same) then their profit this year would only be €35M. This would not be a good way to run a business, management would be deservedly sacked etc.

Personally I've more of a problem with the sizing of the prices, the Sterling price often being in a double fontsize compared to the Euro price ( I've been caught a couple of times thinking that I'm getting a bargain when I'm not).

P.S. This is a dangerous place, they are all a bit mental, come back to the poker forum if it all gets too much.

Gummy Panda

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

P.S. This is a dangerous place, they are all a bit mental, come back to the poker forum if it all gets too much.

We've-- we've got lumps of it 'round the back!!

Capt'n Midnight

Gummy Panda wrote: »

The exchange rate is not the only factor.

like already posted VAT rates, corporate tax, minimum wage costs, energy costs, etc. are all different in Ireland than the UK

for a start corporatin tax is far lower here and by having the uk sell products to the subsideary at a special price you can easily move the profit to the most tax advantageous area. transport costs including ferry are similar from London to Dublin or to Northern England and probably cheaper than to Scotland. Fuel is cheaper here. What % do wages make up of the running cost, and let's not forget that the supermakets in many cases make over 100% markup on food prices

Gummy Panda

Yeah i made a mistake on the corporate tax. I mixed up the rates.

I don't believe supermarkets make 100% mark up on all food. This may differ from company to company but i know a lot of common items like bread are sold at a lose to get footfall (this is from a Lidl source)

sdanseo

Shop up North if you can. The stores are starting to notice this and if everyone buggers off to the UK to shop, they'll start bringing prices down.

Dyr

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Personally I've more of a problem with the sizing of the prices, the Sterling price often being in a double fontsize compared to the Euro price ( I've been caught a couple of times thinking that I'm getting a bargain when I'm not).

Should be illegal to dispaly prices in anything other then euro's. I got caught once when the sterling price was the only price on an item.

luckylucky

smccarrick wrote: »

I accept what you're saying as a generalisation- but I would qualify that with an observation that electrical goods (in general) are a total rip off in Portugal. Even if you visit the German multiples (Aldi etc) and price electrical goods there you will find identical goods in their branches in Ireland often for 30-40% less than their Portuguese prices. Visit your local Vodafone shop and price a range of their phones, and compare it to Irish prices (and indeed price plans), once again I think you'll be very surprised.

What really gets my goat though is kitchen ware- such as a simple kettle, toaster, microwave etc- in general these can be gotten for half the Portuguese price in Dublin.........

Also- like to see you wander into a major Portuguese shop selling household goods and buying a couple of things and haggling a 10% discount......... DID Electrical, Powercity and some of the other outlets are more than happy to give you an on-the-spot discount......

Food, alcohol and tobacco are a lot cheaper in Portugal- Electrical goods and fuel are vastly cheaper in Ireland.......

Swings and roundabouts.......

Yeah it was just meant as a generalisation. Luxury goods are more expensive in Portugal alright. Though they have come down in prices in recent years as the market gets more competitive. I live in Portugal so I should know . Also petrol, diesel and cars are very expensive in Portugal. Booze and eating out is way cheaper in Portugal. Overall it's far cheaper to live in Portugal. But with the low wages here it may perhaps be in relative terms just as expensive if not more.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

luckylucky,
lets say the Irish or Portuguese branch of Debenhams made a profit of €50M last year.
If they reduced the € price in accordance with the exchange rate (and sales remained the same) then their profit this year would only be €35M. This would not be a good way to run a business, management would be deservedly sacked etc.

Personally I've more of a problem with the sizing of the prices, the Sterling price often being in a double fontsize compared to the Euro price ( I've been caught a couple of times thinking that I'm getting a bargain when I'm not).

P.S. This is a dangerous place, they are all a bit mental, come back to the poker forum if it all gets too much.

While I understand your argument - I don't fully agree with it, your figures of €50 million changing to €35 million are very arbitrary for one thing.
Anyway we could go around in circles again on that one....

On the pricing in sterling - I'd like to know if you could pay for the items in sterling

In regards to the poker forum, I had a look at a thread recently and saw someone recommend a $20k bankroll for playing 5/10 professionally - with people offering such dumbfounding advice I'm in no hurry to get involved there again

Fratton Fred

I remember hearing once that when Tesco entered the Irish market, they pitched their prices just below the competition, but not as low as they knew they could go, because they were expecting a price war.... it never came though so the prices stayed high.

There was an article abour this in the Indo and they went into great lengths about the rip offs in Dublin as opposed to Belfast.

Two days later their letters page was full of people asking why the Indo was twice as expensive in Dublin as it is in Belfast.

OPENROAD

luckylucky wrote: »

Yip, looks that way alright

Here I'll give it one last go....

I actually asked a guy in a small British owned chain 'Suits You' who again were charging items at approx the same extortionate exchange rate of £1 = €1.50 or even higher, why this was the case. His excuse was that the Irish branches had been contacting their UK head office about it but they said they would get around to it but they would have to change their systems around for the new pricing... sounds like a lame excuse to me, you can be sure they'd get it sorted quick if the rate had gone to £1 = €1.80. Anyway if the Irish branch was asking the pricing to be changed I'd say it's another indicator that the weird hypothesis that several people in this thread advocate that costs in Ireland rose so much in 15 months that prices in these stores should rise in real terms(vis-a-vis sterling) by 20% is not an accurate hypthesis and that the one I advocate that British and other chains are taking advantage of the change in exchange rate to reap extra profit is far more likely. I find it strange that so many people are willing believe in that weird hypothesis and think that big business are not trying to pull the woll over thier eyes

While I agree with you that we are indeed ripped off here, it is is not just UK stores that do it, I have mentioned this twice already, but IRISH STORES with braches in NI are also engaging in the same practice, i.e. in NI the product is significantly chaeper than ROI.

luckylucky

OPENROAD wrote: »

While I agree with you that we are indeed ripped off here, it is is not just UK stores that do it, I have mentioned this twice already, but IRISH STORES with braches in NI are also engaging in the same practice, i.e. in NI the product is significantly chaeper than ROI.

Yeah I know it's not just UK stores who do it. The thing is though it's an extra p1ss take when Debenhams and the like actually display the price in both sterling and euro, it's almost like their flaunting the fact that you're being ripped off because they know only a small minority actually care.

Mr. Presentable

Of course if they had any respect for the Irish consumer, they'd simply take the Stg price off the tags.

OPENROAD

luckylucky wrote: »

Yeah I know it's not just UK stores who do it. The thing is though it's an extra p1ss take when Debenhams and the like actually display the price in both sterling and euro, it's almost like their flaunting the fact that you're being ripped off because they know only a small minority actually care.

I actually find it worse the Irish stores doing it, UK stores it is just easier to place Euro price on the same tag.

At the end of the day the only person who can chage things is the consumer. We had coach loads of people going to NI a few months ago and the sight of Sainsburys welcoming customers with tea and coffee, they even waived their policy by allowing ROI custoners to register for loyalty cards.

What I say is fair play to the people who went up, I know the govt were not too happy but with the savings you can't blame people. But it is down to people to make a stand, I commute to London quite a bit and will stock up on certain items there rather than buy here, I have stoped buying Irish newspapers because they are too expensive, I subscribe to UK newspapers for half the price. I subscribe for magazines rather than pay rip off prices in Irish stores.

OPENROAD

nipplenuts wrote: »

Of course if they had any respect for the Irish consumer, they'd simply take the Stg price off the tags.

If the Irish consumer had any common sense they just wouldn't shop there if it upset them.

The_Conductor

OPENROAD wrote: »

If the Irish consumer had any common sense they just wouldn't shop there if it upset them.

Its a great way of price checking before you go up North though

OPENROAD

smccarrick wrote: »

Its a great way of price checking before you go up North though

True

Mr. Presentable

OPENROAD wrote: »

If the Irish consumer had any common sense they just wouldn't shop there if it upset them.

Can't argue with that!

KhanTheMan

OPENROAD wrote: »

If the Irish consumer had any common sense they just wouldn't shop there if it upset them.

Do what Mary Hearney told us to do. Shop around - up the north

OPENROAD

KhanTheMan wrote: »

Do what Mary Hearney told us to do. Shop around - up the north

Indeed.