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The next generation NFC mobile phone will be your electronic purse.

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Comments

  • #32
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The Subject in AH is "The next generation NCF mobile phone will be your electronic purse". And when I started this thread I left the topic open for several hours before I posted my conclusion to the subject. The subject in AH is based on facts from provided links from mobile phone manufacturers. (anyone who knows about GSM Cellphone technology can verify their capabilities.)

    The posting in CT is "The next generation "NCF" Mobile phones will eliminate global cash". and is more based on the conspiracy theory of the global take over of the NWO.

    The only thing you are missing is...........

    1) It doesn't work yet and won't for the conceivable future.

    2) The sheer volume of data involved. If , as you say, it will be used to store all the information available on everyone then the sheer volume of data will be ridiculous. I understand it's easier to sit there and come up with Theories that sound cool, but as someone who works with Data everyday i can happily tell you the ability to store all of the data points that an entire population would produce would be next to impossible at the moment. Then you have issues with data integrity etc etc etc

    3) To be able to access the information means court injunctions etc etc, but we won't let anything like precedent get in the way of a good story.


  • #33
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It is not a double posting. They have two entirely different headings although they mention the same topic one goes on about the New World Order.

    The Subject in AH is "The next generation NCF mobile phone will be your electronic purse". And when I started this thread I left the topic open for several hours before I posted my conclusion to the subject. The subject in AH is based on facts. (anyone who knows about GSM Cellphone technology can verify their capabilities.)

    The posting in CT is "The next generation "NCF" Mobile phones will eliminate global cash". and is more based on the conspiracy of the global take over of the NWO and its much talked about cashless system.

    If I was being pedantic (or accurate, whatever) I could easily say that they're clearly not two "entirely different headings."


  • #34
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dragan wrote: »
    I understand it's easier to sit there and come up with Theories that sound cool, but as someone who works with Data everyday i can happily tell you the ability to store all of the data points that an entire population would produce would be next to impossible at the moment. Then you have issues with data integrity etc etc etc
    Not only that, but conspiracy theorists seem to be under the impression that there would be somebody at a screen going, "Uh-oh, John Smith just gave his friend Joe €5, get the feds down there now!".

    Instead the reality is that any such information is just another row of data in a monolithic database and that information would only be used against you if someone was interested in using it against you.

    In other words, it would allow "da man" to do exactly what they could do now anyway. Perhaps just a little bit cheaper.

    Conspiracy theorists always seem to overestimate their own personal importance to society and underestimate the scale of cost and effort that conspiracies would consume.

    Interesting to see Barclays showing adds for their contactless technology, clearly showing that you just have to swipe, no need to enter a PIN or provide I.D.
    That sounds secure...

    The best solution is to give everyone a card which used contactless technology and an RFID chip implanted under your skin. The card will only work in the presence of your specific RFID (derived from your unique chemical makeup which the RFID chip scans evey 10ms and sends to a central government computer). That would solve all theft instantly.


  • #35
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Dragan wrote: »
    The only thing you are missing is...........

    1) It doesn't work yet and won't for the conceivable future..
    I cannot see it working immediately but I could possibly see it have a potential.
    Dragan wrote: »
    2) The sheer volume of data involved. If , as you say, it will be used to store all the information available on everyone then the sheer volume of data will be ridiculous. I understand it's easier to sit there and come up with Theories that sound cool, but as someone who works with Data everyday i can happily tell you the ability to store all of the data points that an entire population would produce would be next to impossible at the moment. Then you have issues with data integrity etc etc etc.
    Space is cheap these days and all information by Email, phone or text message is stored under the data retention order for several years but as a previous poster mentioned that it is all useless without having positive names and faces applied to it.
    Dragan wrote: »
    3) To be able to access the information means court injunctions etc etc, but we won't let anything like precedent get in the way of a good story.
    It may not be able to stand in court as yet (The O'Reilly murder trial fell through because "cell Site analysis" was new to the court system here but this could change). Such technology can still lead the authorities into a criminal tip offs that they can pursue such as purchase and income records.


  • #36
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I cannot see it working immediately but I could possibly see it have a potential.

    No you don't , you see another bit of fuel for another of your pointless AH threads.

    [/QUOTE]Space is cheap these days and all information by Email, phone or text message is stored under the data retention order but as a previous poster mentioned that it is all useless without having positive names and faces applied to it.[/QUOTE]

    LoL, your having a bubble right? I assume you do not work, nor have ever worked, in a job the means an indept knowledge of a large scale database?

    Indeed, every email and phone call and text message is stored....sure. Even on our lowly Irish networks the amount of information generated by customer actions is massive, and i mean massive. Not "massive" as in the word, "massive" as in the actual meaning of the word.

    And space is not cheap. Far from it when you are talking about the amount of space required for this type of thing to be kept retrospectively, day on day.
    It may not be able to stand in court as yet (The O'Reilly murder trial fell through because "cell Site analysis" was a new to the legal system here and did not hold water in court, this could all change). Such technology can still lead the authorities into a criminal tip offs that they can pursue such as purchase and income records.

    And you still need the court injunction to do it. You ever need one of those. It's takes a while.

    As i said, don't let the way thing actually work get in the way of a good story.

    Edit : Also, information on email, texts and phone calls is not stored for "several years" and the only information the majority of services will keep is based around billed services, for billing reasons.


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  • #37
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It may not be able to stand in court as yet (The O'Reilly murder trial fell through because "cell Site analysis" was new to the court system here but this could change).
    Joe O'Reilly was convicted of murder. Are you thinking of something else?

    Cell site analysis is a rough science really. All you can really do is show that someone's phone was probably within a certain radius of a particular mast at a particular time of day. In order to actually pinpoint someone's whereabouts, you need triangulation (like GPS), which involves three distinct masts (though you could be reasonably accurate with two). Cell networks have never been designed for triangulation and the nature of hand-offs and such mean that they would need to be specifically reconfigured to save the data required to triangulate the position of every single handset within the range of those three masts at any on particular time.

    You think the mobile operators are going to pay for that? Or allow the government access to their network?

    Massive chunks of the country also have much thinner coverage than the cities so much of the population is only ever covered by two masts at a time (if even). How can they be tracked?


  • #38
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Dragan wrote: »
    Edit : Also, information on email, texts and phone calls is not stored for "several years" and the only information the majority of services will keep is based around billed services, for billing reasons.

    Could anyone explain why the global log on data for Utube was retained for several years during the Viacom law suit?

    As far as the UK authorities go with retaining data I wouldn't trust them as far as I would throw them and I would doubt if it Ireland would be capable of holding any of its own data on emails, facebook, text messages etc. (It would be held by the both the mobile and ISP).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention


  • #39
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,775 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    And who is paying for all these storage devices, and their maintenance?

    Sometimes I enjoy your posts because they make me feel normal but sometimes you just take it too far!!


  • #40
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Runny, everything you say is so fucking wrong i'm surprised you don't collapse under the weight of your own bullshit.


  • #41
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Could anyone explain why the global log on data for Utube was retained for several years during the Viacom law suit?

    Ask Youtube?

    Seriously, the actual laws that govern Data Rentention are very different from what you seem to think they are.


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  • #42
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    And who is paying for all these storage devices, and their maintenance?

    Sometimes I enjoy your posts because they make me feel normal but sometimes you just take it too far!!
    The likes of Google, UTube, Vodafone, O2, NRA, Iarnrod Eireann, Ryanair, British Airways, TFL. (Transport for london) must hold all their digital records by law in the same manner that Irish companies are required to hold company files and receipts for the CRO. The authorities have the right to access these records if the suspect terrorism or criminal activity.

    The data for the UTube Viacom case fitted on just 12 Terrabites of HDD space which would cost just a couple of grand if it was set up in a RAID server syatem. This would be pittance to maintain. The average top end desktop these days comes with a TB of space.
    Dragan wrote: »
    Ask Youtube?

    Seriously, the actual laws that govern Data Rentention are very different from what you seem to think they are.
    At the time of all this hype with Viacom civil liberties groupes were up in arms that UTube held this information since the start of their records. We have yet to be given an explaination of why they retained it.


  • #43
    javaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Will it come in an electronic manbag? I'm not big on purses.


  • #44
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You're aware that boards.ie has a full list of every IP address you've used on boards. That's possibly 4,719 different ways that you could be tracked. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to cross-reference those IP addresses and actually build a comprehensive real-world map of where you were in the world at the time that you were posting.

    A second cross-reference could easily track your online activities across other sites.

    You know why it isn't done?

    1. You're just not that f*cking interesting. Nobody cares where you've been over the last year and what sites you've vistied. But don't feel bad; I'm not that interesting either. Nor is anyone else here. The only people who might be interested are soulless marketeers. And even they're not that interested in you personally. You're just another number. Like me.

    2. It would be illegal use of that data.


  • #45
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The likes of Google, UTube, Vodafone, O2, NRA, Iarnrod Eireann, Ryanair, British Airways, TFL. (Transport for london) must hold all their digital records by law in the same manner that Irish companies are required to hold company files and receipts for the CRO. The authorities have the right to access these records if the suspect terrorism or criminal activity.

    And do you have any idea how long the named companies need to hold it for? Clearly not. I do, as i work for one of those you named, and it's not even close to as long as you seem to think.

    As i said, once information is required for billing them we will happily hold on to it but even this will be for an extreme limited time when it comes to holding it in a live Database. Incoming and non charged communications in the event of telecoms and they are under no obligation to retain it. Non billing info for Airlines? Guess what, no obligation to retain that either. Same with any other service.

    Also, the authorities have no right to access the information and Data Integrity will be strongly upheld by service providers. Now then, if the Gardai or any other member of Law Enforcement contact the relevant liasons in the relevant Risk Management and Fraud Departments with a Court Injunction cleary detailing the specific dates and customer information they are looking for then off course these companies will co-operate with them. Until then, no.
    The data for the UTube Viacom case fitted on just 12 Terrabites of HDD space which would cost just a couple of grand if it was set up in a RAID server syatem. This would be pittance to maintain. The average top end desktop these days comes with a TB of space.

    At the time of all this hype with Viacom civil liberties groupes were up in arms that UTube held this information since the start of their records. We have yet to be given an explaination of why they retained it.

    Wow, all Youtube were keeping track off was log on, access servlet and IP. Thats three fields, with less than 30 string spaces max. Hardly a massive amount of information.

    Do you have any idea how many info points the average mobile customer generates simply by walking around, without even using their phone as the signal is passed from cell to cell and all the relevant GSM encryptions carried out and recorded? Lots. And thats one person. Then add in phones calls. Then texts, sms, gprs and other services. Now think that for each of those information pieces you need to keep track of 2 or 3 dozen information points in conjunction, which will be cross stored across a variety of tables and possibly even a variety of Data Warehouses?

    Yeah, it's all falling apart for your conspiracy now.

    Look, as long as you continue to talk utter ****e i'll be sitting here tearing your posts apart.

    Get used to it, or move to an area fo interest that someone on boards doesn't work in. Every time you post one of these threads someone from the relevant industy comes along and tears your points apart.

    And long may it continue to happen.


  • #46
    funk-you
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭funk-you


    http://media.photobucket.com/image/record/Yanglow/418234404_f288f48ee6.jpg


  • #47
    Bill-e
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Bill-e


    I used to be able to save money before the AIB sent me a laser card. Which I did not ask for in the first place :(


  • #48
    Rsaeire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Rsaeire


    This is just another wireless technology that has little to no security and is easily hackable, just like RFID chips in passports that were said to be unhackable.


  • #49
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Dragan wrote: »
    And do you have any idea how long the named companies need to hold it for? Clearly not. I do, as i work for one of those you named, and it's not even close to as long as you seem to think.

    As i said, once information is required for billing them we will happily hold on to it but even this will be for an extreme limited time when it comes to holding it in a live Database. Incoming and non charged communications in the event of telecoms and they are under no obligation to retain it. Non billing info for Airlines? Guess what, no obligation to retain that either. Same with any other service.

    Also, the authorities have no right to access the information and Data Integrity will be strongly upheld by service providers. Now then, if the Gardai or any other member of Law Enforcement contact the relevant liaisons in the relevant Risk Management and Fraud Departments with a Court Injunction cleary detailing the specific dates and customer information they are looking for then off course these companies will co-operate with them. Until then, no.
    .
    Have you been hiding under a rock for the last year? I have been posting and reading heaps of threads on the subject of the erosion of data protection and civil liberties particularly with the British and US authorities. Please explain the following. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3965033.ece
    Dragan wrote: »
    Wow, all Youtube were keeping track off was log on, access servlet and IP. Thats three fields, with less than 30 string spaces max. Hardly a massive amount of information. .
    It was enough to raise concerns ands waken up civil liberties groupes, If Utube had retained this data for so long what about Facebook, Flicker, Myspace etc etc.
    Dragan wrote: »
    Do you have any idea how many info points the average mobile customer generates simply by walking around, without even using their phone as the signal is passed from cell to cell and all the relevant GSM encryptions carried out and recorded? Lots. And thats one person. Then add in phones calls. Then texts, sms, gprs and other services. Now think that for each of those information pieces you need to keep track of 2 or 3 dozen information points in conjunction, which will be cross stored across a variety of tables and possibly even a variety of Data Warehouses?.
    When Joe O Reily was driving around in his car, did he or the authorities know that his point to point cellphone records would be retained? Did the service providers "guess" that this guy was off the wall and decided to retain them. If they retained these records for him they must have them for everyone else. I would like to hear from someone on mobile phone forensics on this one.
    Dragan wrote: »
    Yeah, it's all falling apart for your conspiracy now. Look, as long as you continue to talk utter ****e I'll be sitting here tearing your posts apart.
    Get used to it, or move to an area fo interest that someone on boards doesn't work in. Every time you post one of these threads someone from the relevant industry comes along and tears your points apart. And long may it continue to happen.
    I will gladly wait for you to come to me with someone from the mobile communications industry to try and debunk my theory that mobile phones will be used as a successful tool for personal cashless transactions. I will also gladly wait for you to get a source that will debunk the capabilities of track and trace with GSM records.


  • #50
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Already posted in Conspiracy Theories were it belongs.


This discussion has been closed.
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