Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

jamesozzie · 03-11-2008 03:32PM

Denilson isn't great either, how the hell can these players wear the red of Arsenal!! I should be playing ahead of them clowns!!

But I still rate Denilson ahead of the Songster so i'l spare him!! I think we both agree that the Gooners are in dire need of a partner for Fabbers though!

Quazzie · 03-11-2008 03:40PM

I could list about 60% of the squad that aren't close to what I rate an Arsenal player to be, but then again thats just me. I compare and judge everyone against the great teams of my generation i.e the 98 team, and the Invincibles.

lanod2407 · 03-11-2008 03:42PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Thats a valid point but we are not moving closer to a title and instead are moving further away. We are one or two player(I think 3 myself) short of a title challenging team, but next year the way things are going and how reluctant he is to buy players we might be 4 or 5 away.

Agree fully here - we're taking two steps forward and three back each year for the past 3 years.
And look at the competition - Chelsea are on fire, United are a mile ahead of us and are firing on 3 cylinders right now imo. Even Liverpool are doing the business ........ 2 wins from 2 in the Top 4 Head-to-Heads.

Here's a quote on the Beeb this morning from Wenger -

" Arsenal play Fenerbahce in the Champions League on Wednesday and Manchester United in the Premier League next Saturday.
"It is an opportunity to show how strong we are," said the Gunners manager.

.................... my fear is ........... He may be right!!!!!

I don't want to be accused of jumping on a Wenger-bashinh band-wagon, but it's fair to say that Arsenal are in crisis mode when their captain is a guy who sulks on the half-way line and we lose to two of the three promoted teams in our first eleven games and are unable to defend a 2 goal lead for 3 minutes!

The Premiership is not about putting out a team of ballerinas to do Swan Lake for an enraptured audience - it's about 38 games of hard, physical football where you impose yourself on the opposition or get kicked around the field. Right now Arsenal look more like the football on the pitch than footballers!

Right - deep breath - that's better - my heart-rate is back below 130, I can get back to work!!!!

jamesozzie · 03-11-2008 03:44PM

I could list about 60% of the squad that aren't close to what I rate an Arsenal player to be, but then again thats just me. I compare and judge everyone against the great teams of my generation i.e the 98 team, and the Invincibles.

100% agreed, after the "Invincible's" team Arsenal have been in freefall. They should give up trying to create good players out of Song, Denilson and Diaby. get rid of them and bring in some proven talent

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 03:45PM

I said I wasn't sure if it was the Blackburn game. I really cant remember which one it was tbh.
I think Song and Denilson will both develop into great players. Neither are that great shakes at the moment

Quazzie · 03-11-2008 03:58PM

Dear Supporter,

Saturday was a game where we had a lot of possession, but Stoke defended very well and were well organised. We were not sharp enough to create chances and conceded two goals on two throw-ins. They fought for every ball and they waited for their set-pieces.

Rory Delap was an influence even though we had a plan to deal with his throw-ins and we had worked on it. They fly into the box and it is difficult with 20 people in there. That sort of thing is not our greatest strength. We were punished and I believe we were unlucky as well.

People who love the traditional English game would have been happy because they got what they liked on Saturday. It was a traditional game with a lot of fight and commitment. And at the end of the day Stoke deserved to win the game.

I believe we tried very hard and I think Stoke are sharp at the moment while we look jaded physically. At the moment we play a lot games and we suffer a little a bit because of that. It isn't a confidence issue but we gave a lot on Wednesday against Spurs. We play again in midweek and that is why, in the repetition of games, if you don't score first you can suffer.

The result was not the only bad news from Saturday. Robin van Persie was sent off and I think that his red card was very, very harsh. He shouldn't have challenged the goalkeeper like that but I don't think it was a red card.

We have injuries too, very bad ones to Adebayor and Walcott. One or two have knocks as well, like Sagna. Saturday was the kind of game where if you are a little bit short on sharpness, you are less agile and get out of tackles less quickly.

Thanks for your support.

This an Arsenal Email I get supposed to be from Wenger due to my membership at the club.

They fly into the box and it is difficult with 20 people in there.

Sorry Arsene you are wrong here. There was 4 Stoke players in the Arsenal box for the first throw.

At the moment we play a lot games and we suffer a little a bit because of that.

Is it not a managers job to know how many games are played in a season and ensure the squad is adequate to cover this amount of games

The result was not the only bad news from Saturday. Robin van Persie was sent off and I think that his red card was very, very harsh. He shouldn't have challenged the goalkeeper like that but I don't think it was a red card.

Wrong again Arsene. It was a justifiable straight red and suggesting anything else is just tripe.

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 04:19PM

At least he took the time to think out a reply to Saturday like that. How many Premier League managers would bother?
Your just really looknig for ways to prove him wrong there.
And while your correct in your points for disproving him, we all know mistakes were made.

Quazzie · 03-11-2008 04:28PM

I posted that just to prove that he is actually in denial and that he can't see where we are going wrong.

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 04:37PM

We need a tactical shake up. This idea of playing the beautiful game 100% of the time is costing us. When you are two up with a minute on the clock why not run it into the corner?
Then you find yourself a goal up with less than a minute left. Two options:
A) run it into the corner for a few seconds, game over. we win 4-3

try a sexy through ball which could result in a goalscoring opportunity and maybe a 5-3 win, OR potentially cost us to get caught on the counter and lend up at 4-4, dropping two valuable points.

If you tried option B in a game of football Manager you'd be called foolish.

I'm not saying I don't enjoy our style of football. Its just there are times when it isn't the best solution.

premierstone · 03-11-2008 04:45PM

Galvasean wrote: »

We need a tactical shake up. This idea of playing the beautiful game 100% of the time is costing us. When you are two up with a minute on the clock why not run it into the corner?
Then you find yourself a goal up with less than a minute left. Two options:
A) run it into the corner for a few seconds, game over. we win 4-3
try a sexy through ball which could result in a goalscoring opportunity and maybe a 5-3 win, OR potentially cost us to get caught on the counter and lend up at 4-4, dropping two valuable points.

If you tried option B in a game of football Manager you'd be called foolish.

I'm not saying I don't enjoy our style of football. Its just there are times when it isn't the best solution.

United were 4-2 up against Hull on Saturday and did the exact same as Arsenal did against Spurs instead of trying to close out the game but they got lucky, we actually got a draw against Spurs whereas Liverpool were beaten but i dont see anyone calling for Benitez' head or criticising Ferguson. If any of our top 4 rivals had to try and survive on the money that we have spent in the last 8 years id like to see where they would be.

jesus_thats_gre · 03-11-2008 04:48PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Thats a valid point but we are not moving closer to a title and instead are moving further away. We are one or two player(I think 3 myself) short of a title challenging team, but next year the way things are going and how reluctant he is to buy players we might be 4 or 5 away.

Next season would be the time to make the judgement so..

It was only 2 or 3 months ago that Arsenal fans were scoffing at assertions on this forum that unless Arsenal signed a quality defensive midfielder that they wouldn't finish abou 4th place. Some of those same people who had ultimate trust in Wenger are now trying to second guess him and others are even suggesting it is time for him to move on.

Trust me, there is nothing United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa or Spurs supporters would love more than for Arsenal to sack Wenger. In my opinion, I have little or no doubt that it would set the club back a good 2 or 3 years.

To be honest, the only thing that I can think of that is more outlandish than assertions that Wenger should be sacked were United fans calling for Ferguson's head about 18 months ago.

Wenger seems to have got it wrong this season. It is obvious where the weaknesses are in the team but he can't change a things for another few months yet. He is also going to wait until the right player is available. In terms of the PL, any hopes of winning it are probably gone but there is still plenty to play for and plenty of time to get there. Villa do look good this season but I don't think that have it in them to break into the top 4 just yet, especially at Arsenal's expense.

In signing Diara from Chelsea that time, he obviously recognised the need for a player of this type so I would very much doubt that he has gone from that point to thinking that he can do completely without one in relatively little time.

You also need to consider that Wenger has had relatively poor seasons before and bounced back the season after stronger than ever. Remember that season that Spurs would have pipped 4th place only for getting a dose of the ****s? Spurs are an example of what happens when you aren't patient. Arsenal, United and Liverpool are examples of what happens when you are patient. I would maintain the position of being patient.

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 04:49PM

premierstone wrote: »

United were 4-2 up against Hull on Saturday and did the exact same as Arsenal did against Spurs instead of trying to close out the game but they got lucky, we actually got a draw against Spurs whereas Liverpool were beaten but i dont see anyone calling for Benitez' head or criticising Ferguson. If any of our top 4 rivals had to try and survive on the money that we have spent in the last 8 years id like to see where they would be.

The Spurs game is just one specific example. I'm not calling for Wenger's head, we owe him too much for that, just a bit of tactical diversity. We've been found out now and even a poor team if they keep organized at the back has a fairly good chance of beating us. If we showed more variety in our tactics we could take teams by surprise.

Quazzie · 03-11-2008 04:50PM

premierstone wrote: »

United were 4-2 up against Hull on Saturday and did the exact same as Arsenal did against Spurs instead of trying to close out the game but they got lucky, we actually got a draw against Spurs whereas Liverpool were beaten but i dont see anyone calling for Benitez' head or criticising Ferguson.

There is no criticism because these results are blips in form and not the norm as it is at Arsenal

premierstone wrote: »

If any of our top 4 rivals had to try and survive on the money that we have spent in the last 8 years id like to see where they would be.

Not a valid excuse because this is because of Wenger's choice. Money is available. We hear over and over again how financially stable the club is and how the money is available for Wenger to spend.

jesus_thats_gre · 03-11-2008 04:50PM

playa3 wrote: »

This is a fair statement. The problem with this reasoning and why a lot of Arsenal fans have become disenfranchised with Wenger at the moment is that he still refuses to go out and find these players. Along with that, the players leaving every year just keep slowing any progress that he has made with the team.

This I can understand though. As you can see from the post I made a few pages back, I agree with you on this.

Saying that, if anyone can replace them, it is Wenger...

premierstone · 03-11-2008 05:06PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Not a valid excuse because this is because of Wenger's choice. Money is available. We hear over and over again how financially stable the club is and how the money is available for Wenger to spend.

I really have my doubts as to whether this is in fact the case though Quazzie, he has spent money but only when money has been received from a sale of a wantaway, truth is we will probably never know exactly what funds are available, and as I was explaining to friends of mine at the weekend (drink fueled btw) Wenger has maintained Arsenal as a top 4 side and one of the most feared and respected in Europe while running the club like a bussiness and I honestly believe it is in 10-15 years that people will really appreciate what Arsene has put in place and that the benefits of he's prudence will be reaped.

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 05:09PM

premierstone wrote: »

I really have my doubts as to whether this is in fact the case though Quazzie, he has spent money but only when money has been received from a sale of a wantaway, truth is we will probably never know exactly what funds are available, and as I was explaining to friends of mine at the weekend (drink fueled btw) Wenger has maintained Arsenal as a top 4 side and one of the most feared and respected in Europe while running the club like a bussiness and I honestly believe it is in 10-15 years that people will really appreciate what Arsene has put in place and that the benefits of he's prudence will be reaped.

Agreed, it's only for so long that the other big clubs can go on maintaining the debt they are in.

Can't remember the exact figure but I believe United are in a fairly large amount of debt?

DenMan · 03-11-2008 05:19PM

Frisbee wrote: »

Agreed, it's only for so long that the other big clubs can go on maintaining the debt they are in.

Can't remember the exact figure but I believe United are in a fairly large amount of debt?

Of course they are. However winning both the Premiership and the Champions League would have helped them hugely, and of course upped their trophy cabinet count. Not the mention the upcoming deal with Hublot.

yahoo_moe · 03-11-2008 05:25PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

There is no criticism because these results are blips in form and not the norm as it is at Arsenal

Sorry but being beaten by Fulham, Stoke and Hull is not the norm at Arsenal. I agree that the norm over the past few years has been that we've had a few seriously bad results each season but despite losing to Boro and drawing with Newcastle and Birmingham (twice) last year, holding onto leads against Utd and Chelsea would have won us the league.

premierstone wrote:

I honestly believe it is in 10-15 years that people will really appreciate what Arsene has put in place and that the benefits of he's prudence will be reaped

Especially given that governing bodies may well try to force through regulations on such issues. Plus we've got young English players coming through at last which should see us through any Champions League restrictions in 6 or 8 years... as somebody said a few pages back, Arsenal have maintained Champions League status with no risk which is not to be underestimated.

Frisbee wrote:

Can't remember the exact figure but I believe United are in a fairly large amount of debt?

£640 or £840m I seem to recall - and they currently only pay off the interest.

And just to pick up on something else, does nobody else agree that Van Persie's red card is completely unjustified? I may have missed the serious foul play or violent conduct but as far as I was concerned it was a petulant shoulder barge which merited a yellow but nothing more.

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 05:25PM

Is it daft to dream of a world where United and Chelski's respective debts cripple them and Arsenal go on to rule English football (with Liverpool as competition

)?
And then Wenger will say " I told ya so."

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 05:27PM

yahoo_moe wrote: »

And just to pick up on something else, does nobody else agree that Van Persie's red card is completely unjustified? I may have missed the serious foul play or violent conduct but as far as I was concerned it was a petulant shoulder barge which merited a yellow but nothing more.

I've seen many similar incidents end with red but usually they end up with yellow. I guess we were just one of teh unlucky ones.

Or maybe the ref is part of the ManU conspiracy and wanted to weaken us for Saturday's match. Who knows?

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 03-11-2008 05:37PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

This I can understand though. As you can see from the post I made a few pages back, I agree with you on this.

Saying that, if anyone can replace them, it is Wenger...

Ah yes i see your other post now. You're probably right about finding replacements too, if only the development of players like Ramsey, Wilshere, Vela and Coquelin could be fast forwarded a few years things wouldn't be so bad i don't think.

For the record i am not in the camp that wants to see Wenger out. Think it would be an absolutely ridiculous decision as i dont see who could replace him. As others have said, what he has done with the club in managing to spend as little as he has and still keep them competing is excellent. Especially considering it is at a time when clubs all around are spending tens of millions and when the debt of building the Emirates to shoulder too.

Of course going so long without winning a trophy isn't something we should sit back and accept and be content with but in the grand scheme of things there's no quick fix solution , certainly firing Wenger wouldn't do it.

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 07:09PM

Although the crop of youngsters look to be (arguably) the most promising group in world football at the moment, I worry that some of our stars wont be around in future when they develop (ala Flamini). Great as it would be to see a 28 year old Fabregas and a 26 year old Theo Walcott in the same team as a 24 year old Aaron Ramsey, 26 year old Vela etc. etc.
I would worry that a lack of short term success may cause some of the potential older stars (Fabregas, Clichy) to leave before taht can happen.

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 10:19PM

We used our get out of jail free card today. Despite losing to Stoke we are still only 6 points off the top due to Liverpool's surprise defeat against Spurs and hold on to fourth place due to Villa's surprise loss to Newcastle today.

Looks like 3 points against United would get us back on track. Easier said than done, especially since we are missing Ade, RvP, Walcott, Sagna and Eboué. Nobody said it would be easy.

edit: On a side note I just noticed despite their great improvement in form Spurs are back on bottom of the league. It's turning out to be some race to get out of that drop zone.

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 11:30PM

Think we're missing Gallas aswell?
Was a real boost tha Newcastle beat Villa today, things dont look so bad now...

However If Im being honest with myself I do expect United to beat us...

L'prof · 03-11-2008 11:32PM

Galvasean wrote: »

We used our get out of jail free card today. Despite losing to Stoke we are still only 6 points off the top due to Liverpool's surprise defeat against Spurs and hold on to fourth place due to Villa's surprise loss to Newcastle today.

Looks like 3 points against United would get us back on track. Easier said than done, especially since we are missing Ade, RvP, Walcott, Sagna and Eboué. Nobody said it would be easy.

edit: On a side note I just noticed despite their great improvement in form Spurs are back on bottom of the league. It's turning out to be some race to get out of that drop zone.

The way I look at it is, we've dropped points in 5 games that we really shouldn't have...to bring ourselves back into contention we have to recover as many of those points as possible against Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea and I really don't see us getting a thing against United the way we're defending and the fact that all of a sudden we're very limited up front! We can only afford to drop 24 points and expect to remain in contention and we've already dropped 13, 11 games in!

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 11:36PM

What way do people think Wenger will go?

5 in the middle with Bendtner up front but with Diaby given licence to push up?
Or 4-4-2 with Bendtner and Vela up front?

I reckon RVP will play against Fenerbache anyway as he's out of the United tie anyway, will he risk Bendtner?

DenMan · 03-11-2008 11:37PM

Sagna upbeat ahead of the game against Utd on Sat. I don't think he is out injured. He is a phenomenal athlete and we missed him right at the end (March) when we were still in contention on all fronts.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_4451914,00.html

On a side note, Clinton Morrison scored for Cov tonight as they won at Birmingham. Wonder will he find his way into Trapattoni's plans?

Galvasean · 03-11-2008 11:40PM

Frisbee wrote: »

What way do people think Wenger will go?

5 in the middle with Bendtner up front but with Diaby given licence to push up?
Or 4-4-2 with Bendtner and Vela up front?

I reckon RVP will play against Fenerbache anyway as he's out of the United tie anyway, will he risk Bendtner?

Against Fenerbache I wouldn't be surprised if he went with RvP and Vela up front.
Save Bendtner for the United game and have Diaby play behind him.

Frisbee · 03-11-2008 11:43PM

DenMan wrote: »

Sagna upbeat ahead of the game against Utd on Sat. I don't think he is out injured.

That really would be amazing! We'll be ripped to shreds without him or Eboue at RB...

Galvasean wrote: »

Against Fenerbache I wouldn't be surprised if he went with RvP and Vela up front.
Save Bendtner for the United game and have Diaby play behind him.

Your so knowledgeable...

Galvasean · 04-11-2008 12:52AM

Frisbee wrote: »

Your so knowledgeable...

Um... okay I can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Reserves won 2-0 against Fulham. Apparently Bischoff played a stormer. surely he can't be too far off the first team squad now. Maybe Wenger hopes to introduce him in the Carling Cup.

http://www.arsenal.com/match-menu/3020286/reserves/arsenal-res-v-fulham-res?tab=report

Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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