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Dublin Riots?

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2

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    #32
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Banned why?? Because i don't agree it was a riot.

    You will be banned for any further flaming comments such as the one I highlighted in my first reply to you.

    By your own admission in post 16 there was 12 people involved. Section 14 of the Public Order Act states that 12 or more people are required for a riot.
    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Sorry if i offended anyone but i call a spade when i see it. I have the upmost respect for those protect me and my family day in day out, but a time as come to show them who is the law and punish them otherwise you will have this converstion day in day out for years to come.
    Once again apologys

    Apology accepted. As I said constructive debate and comments are more than welcome.

    As for 50 Gardai or more watching a riot or disturbance taking place, there would have been a health and safety concern to send in 50 Gardai without protective clothing. They were probably waiting for the public order units to arrive.


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    #33
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Understood Nog no problem, look guys keep up the good work but its time to get tougher on the scumbags.


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    #34
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    Its a small thing called health and safety = you dont see firemen running into burning houses without the proper equipment, you haven't a clue about anything regarding AGS and I think people should just ignore poker face because he obviously has nothing worthwhile to add to this forum and from his attitude it appears that he is not a member of an emergency service. "The ones that slate the Garda are always the first to call them when something happens".
    Is this forum not open to the public?
    Members of the public express their dissatisfaction with the Gardaí because they are not getting the protection they feel they deserve. I'm sure the Gardaí have reasons for what they do or don't do but they ring hollow when you are watching reported lawlessness outside your doorstep but no-one turns up despite repeated calls.

    And today's excuse is...Health and safety... yours or ours?


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    #35
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    darren254 wrote: »
    again ill ask.is this a typical night at your local.please describe a riot in your eyes.the 50 guards were standing behind vans as there WAS stones and other missiles thrown at them but there was another section of guards wearing their helmets etc in front of vans so they werent just standing there looking at the trouble or the cars being burnt out.your hardly telling me you expect them to rush them

    Darren i don't have the answers mate but if standing there doing nothing is the answer, well so be it.


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    #36
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Understood Nog no problem, look guys keep up the good work but its time to get tougher on the scumbags.

    pokerface there is not one person here that would disagree with you but unfortunately the get tough approach has to come from the courts, not the gardai.
    Hagar wrote: »
    Is this forum not open to the public?
    Members of the public express their dissatisfaction with the Gardaí because they are not getting the protection they feel they deserve. I'm sure the Gardaí have reasons for what they do or don't do but they ring hollow when you are watching reported lawlessness outside your doorstep but no-one turns up despite repeated calls.

    And today's excuse is...Health and safety... yours or ours?

    Hagar

    if people are firing missiles then uniform Gardai will not be allowed to go in charging simply because they would not be properly equipped for it. The Public Order units however are equipped to go into situations such as described above.

    Sometimes calls have to be prioritised by the uniform members so the lesser serious of calls go to the back of the list. Many calls we receive are so non specific such as "someone threw a banger at my window but I didn't see them" and are usually not worth going to. A simple drive-by could sort it out but tbh most times it doesn't.

    The types of calls I am talking about above would be something like a fight, bangers being thrown, a drunk driver and a domestic with kids in the house.
    The priority would be like this:

    Domestic involving kids: can take 2+hrs if you are taking the kids into care
    Drunk Driver: once arrested the car is off the road for an hour
    Fight: can take 5 minutes to send everyone on their way. If one or more are arrested, the car is off the road for a good 30 minutes
    Banger at the window: realistically no one is going to be caught as there is usually no description of the youths so nothing to go on.


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    #37
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Hagar wrote: »
    And today's excuse is...Health and safety... yours or ours?

    This is the system we operate within.

    Many officers would love to be free to wade into the fray and dish out some street justice, but when that type of policing is carried out, complaints are made, excessive force and police brutality become the buzzwords and the bleeding hearts start shouting about human rights abuses, heavy-handed cops blah blah blah. Ultimately a society gets the police service it deserves. Operationally in public order incidents police operate under a chain of command. Units will be required to await the order to kit up (if Public Order trained) or go in. Very frustrating for officers on the ground, but again, not the fault of individual officers.

    As regards health and safety, ours or yours? When I'm at work my safety and that of my colleagues is paramount to me. If we're taken out of the equation through injury/death then joe public is stuffed.
    .


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    #38
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Hagar wrote: »
    Is this forum not open to the public?
    Members of the public express their dissatisfaction with the Gardaí because they are not getting the protection they feel they deserve. I'm sure the Gardaí have reasons for what they do or don't do but they ring hollow when you are watching reported lawlessness outside your doorstep but no-one turns up despite repeated calls.

    And today's excuse is...Health and safety... yours or ours?

    i can see how it looks to the public looking on but my point was that if theres a public order unit in front of the members then under health and safety they are not going to come out from behind vans. Its also very easy for us to all post comments hear about what we think,but its a totally different story when your there its a whole different thing, also the plain clothes members if they were armed they aren't even supposed to be in a public order situation, but thats a totally different point. As for the health and safety aspect if some member decides to break ranks and run out into the crowd like some people are suggesting - rock or bottle hits member in the head down he/she goes and then the situation gets even worse - better off waiting for the people that are trained to deal with the situation to deploy. id love to hear from any members that were there etc. Im all open to a good healthy debate/chat


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    #39
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    djtechnics1210 wrote: »
    i can see how it looks to the public looking on but my point was that if theres a public order unit in front of the members then under health and safety they are not going to come out from behind vans.
    Bigger vans is the answer then, at least you will sleep safely tonight.


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    #40
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Im not even going to get into what members do on a daily basis involving risking their personal safety for people that don't even appreciate it. Their are members of AGS that go beyond what is expected of them day in day out but of course that never makes the papers and if it does its probably a two line article.


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    #41
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Do the job or quit. Same as everyone else.


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    #42
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Hagar wrote: »
    Do the job or quit. Same as everyone else.

    Your a mod so im not going to argue with ya. I'll talk to ES personal about ES situations.


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    #43
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Forget my modship, hell I used to Mod this forum, are you not answerable to Joe Public?
    Or do you just think you are not answerable to Joe Public?


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    #44
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,118 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Hagar, have we been drinking? Not your usual form, tbh.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #45
    Tannylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 242 ✭✭Tannylan


    just a nomal nite in dublin to be hosent defo not a riot


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    #46
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Hagar wrote: »
    Do the job or quit. Same as everyone else.

    Hagar that comment is unfair and naive. DJtechnics is right in saying that there have been many, many occasions where gardai, emt, fire service, etc have put their own lives at serious risk to save another.

    Also if you think that the job of the ES is like any other, you are very much mistaken. To prove my point, we are exempt from the Health and Safety laws in Ireland simply because of the dangers we face.


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    #47
    Tannylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 242 ✭✭Tannylan


    bull s^it


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    #48
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Tannylan wrote: »
    bull s^it

    come again?


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    #49
    dsane1
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭dsane1


    Nog if your exempt are the army exempt also ,and if so how did the deafness claims succeed? Sorry if its off on a tangent ,just interested .


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    #50
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Your're right, it's not my normal style, sometimes some things just seem so wrong that you have to comment. Maybe I should just go away before I make somebody uncomfortable.

    Last thing before I go, a lot of honest people fear the Gardaí, a lot of honest people don't trust the Gardai, a lot of honest people can't rely on the Gardaí for the protection they expect. Who's fault is that?

    I'll say no more, there's cleverer people than I ready to give answers.


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    #51
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    dsane1 wrote: »
    Nog if your exempt are the army exempt also ,and if so how did the deafness claims succeed? Sorry if its off on a tangent ,just interested .

    TBH I don't know but I would imagine the Army is included due to the nature of their job too.

    As for the deafness claims - Gardai, army, emt etc are afforded basic health and safety rules, common sense things like as in the army - ear plugs, gardai - legal tyres for the cars etc.


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    #52
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Hagar wrote: »
    Last thing before I go, a lot of honest people fear the Gardaí, a lot of honest people don't trust the Gardai, a lot of honest people can't rely on the Gardaí for the protection they expect. Who's fault is that?

    I'll say no more, there's cleverer poeple than I ready to give answers.

    I think your use of "a lot" is unjustified. There are some people who are afraid of the guards, the same as some people are afraid of going into hospital. Some people are always going to fear the guards simply because of what we represent. Remember when you were growing up and your parents said to "behave or that guard will take you away". We are associated with trouble or taking people's freedom away.

    As for trust, well most people do trust the guards. For those that don't trust us and have a legitimate complaint, then I encourage them to take it to the Ombudsman. A total impartial service for the public.

    Reliability - We are not mind readers but most of the guards do there best for the community they work in.


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    #53
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    TheNog wrote: »
    I think your use of "a lot" is unjustified. There are some people who are afraid of the guards, the same as some people are afraid of going into hospital. Some people are always going to fear the guards simply because of what we represent. Remember when you were growing up and your parents said to "behave or that guard will take you away". We are associated with trouble or taking people's freedom away.

    As for trust, well most people do trust the guards. For those that don't trust us and have a legitimate complaint, then I encourage them to take it to the Ombudsman. A total impartial service for the public.

    Reliability - We are not mind readers but most of the guards do there best for the community they work in.
    My parents never said that, maybe I was deprived.

    Who told you most people trust the Gardaí, seriously, who told you that?.
    I have no reason to trust them and I am an ordinary decent person yet I know if I cross one my life will be hell. To a lot of people Gardaí = landords = landlords above the law ;).
    Who really trusts the Ombudsman? If you win in a case against the Gardaí then your card is marked, if you lose your card is marked big time.


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    #54
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    A lot of people don't trust the Gardai.


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    #55
    Jay112
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Jay112


    Hagar wrote: »
    My parents never said that, maybe I was deprived.

    Who told you most people trust the Gardaí, seriously, who told you that?.
    I have no reason to trust them and I am an ordinary decent person yet I know if I cross one my life will be hell. To a lot of people Gardaí = landords = landlords above the law ;).
    Who really trusts the Ombudsman? If you win in a case against the Gardaí then your card is marked, if you lose your card is marked big time.

    Ah here, who told you that alot of people DONT trust the Gardai???

    Its obvious that those who dislike the gardai will tell everyone else about that.
    Those who do trust them dont go boasting to everyone else how they trust them!
    ''Who really trusts the ombudsman?'' Do you even know anything about the ombudsman:rolleyes:...??


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    #56
    Paulzx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Hagar wrote: »
    My parents never said that, maybe I was deprived.

    Who told you most people trust the Gardaí, seriously, who told you that?.
    I have no reason to trust them and I am an ordinary decent person yet I know if I cross one my life will be hell. To a lot of people Gardaí = landords = landlords above the law ;).
    Who really trusts the Ombudsman? If you win in a case against the Gardaí then your card is marked, if you lose your card is marked big time.


    It's all a big conspiracy. The Guards are out to get ye. They're up there with the Parish Priest and the local Headmaster. Trust no one i tell ye:rolleyes:


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    #57
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Jay112 wrote: »
    Ah here, who told you that alot of people DONT trust the Gardai???

    Its obvious that those who dislike the gardai will tell everyone else about that.
    Those who do trust them dont go boasting to everyone else how they trust them!
    ''Who really trusts the ombudsman?'' Do you even know anything about the ombudsman:rolleyes:...??
    Obviously I'm wrong, forgive me.


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    #58
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    I don't trust the Gardai and I'm a 32 year old, junior management in the bank, married homeowner who has never been in trouble. I don't trust that if I am a victim that it would be correctly dealt with and I don't trust that if I fell foul of a Garda that I'd be treated fairly.


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    #59
    Jay112
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Jay112


    Terrontress wrote: »
    I don't trust the Gardai and I'm a 32 year old, junior management in the bank, married homeowner who has never been in trouble. I don't trust that if I am a victim that it would be correctly dealt with and I don't trust that if I fell foul of a Garda that I'd be treated fairly.

    Have you ever had dealings with the Gardai before?


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    #60
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Pure flaming on Hagars behalf i believe... . A person earlier made the same type of comments and he was threatened with a ban.
    Regarding your comment about the bigger vans and sleeping at night Hagar.. i am a qualified member of the public order unit for many years so my comments about members staying behind public order lines were from experience.
    And for the record every person in a job is answerable, regardless of public service or not. I am accountable for all my actions but certainly not on an internet forum, if my actions are called into question when i am working then i will answer to the relevant board but i will not hold myself or other fine members of AGS open to ridicule to people that believe they personally own AGS. An independent survey was held and it actually found public happiness with AGS at an all time high.... cant please everyone then again. People forget that any organisation with as many members as AGS will always have a couple of bad eggs but they always meet their due end.... but some people forget this. That will be my last post on this particular topic.


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    #61
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    I was once stopped for going through a light as it was turning red. Maybe five years ago. I'm sure I have done things since that I might be arrested for like getting caught short while drunk and taking a pee up an alley or littering. I have made a complaint to the Gardai before where nothing was done about it and witnessed friends making complaints to the most disinterested Gardai you could imagine.


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