Cork Hurling Manager?

evil-monkey · 27-10-2008 04:31PM

Orizio wrote: »

Good point, Frank Murphy is a bollocks...unless he is giving it to the Cork panel, and then he is a hero.

so the other guys aren't allowed call the striking players cry babies but you can call Frank Murphy a bollocks??

evil-monkey · 27-10-2008 04:34PM

Orizio wrote: »

Links please, I have yet to see anything about the 9 or 10 players asking for McCarthy to step down, or threatening another strike. Have people come out publicly and said these things?

Regardless, its absurd and self evidently inaccurate to say that they threaten strikes everytime they don't get their way.

It was all over the Indo man!! I'm a Corkonian myself, but I hate to admit it, if these guys go on strike again they are no better than the pre madonnas they are being made out to be...

evil-monkey · 27-10-2008 04:38PM

Waylander wrote: »

I am all for players having a say in things, but I think its pathetic for players to threaten strike every time they dont get what they want, which I think is a danger with the Cork hurlers.

i think this is the key point. they just can't threaten strike every time they are aggrieved about something. if Donal Og got a new manager at work he didn't like would he walk? and these guys want to get paid for their services!! i'm the CC are going to jump at paying a bunch of guys that will be on strike half the time. Waylander summed it all up in that sentence; "its pathetic for players to threaten strike every time they dont get what they want"

Orizio · 27-10-2008 10:47PM

evil-monkey wrote: »

It was all over the Indo man!! I'm a Corkonian myself, but I hate to admit it, if these guys go on strike again they are no better than the pre madonnas they are being made out to be...

THEY CAN'T GO ON STRIKE.

Orizio · 27-10-2008 10:48PM

evil-monkey wrote: »

so the other guys aren't allowed call the striking players cry babies but you can call Frank Murphy a bollocks??

Did you even read what you quoted? I said people say Frank Murphy is a bollocks, except in the current case where those who usually hate on him are supporting him. Get it now?

Orizio · 27-10-2008 10:50PM

deise59 wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me most about this whole thing is their continuing stance that they believe they are not going on strike again with this development. Do they really expect ANYBODY to believe them?

If Gerald stays, the players go. If Gerald goes, the players return.

Thats a strike, no matter what the players will try make you think.

Its an individual decision whether to leave the panel because of the manager, so no quite clearly it isn't a strike. Nor has anyone even left yet.

evil-monkey · 27-10-2008 11:09PM

Orizio wrote: »

Did you even read what you quoted? I said people say Frank Murphy is a bollocks, except in the current case where those who usually hate on him are supporting him. Get it now?

Well you should have written it more clearly then. What you said was "Frank Murphy is a bollocks..." Which would lead me to believe that what you meant was "Frank Murphy is a bollocks"

Orizio wrote: »

THEY CAN'T GO ON STRIKE.

As Deise put it. Just because it's not called a strike doesn't mean it's a strike.

deise59 wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me most about this whole thing is their continuing stance that they believe they are not going on strike again with this development. Do they really expect ANYBODY to believe them?

If Gerald stays, the players go. If Gerald goes, the players return.

Thats a strike, no matter what the players will try make you think.

Exactly.

Orizio wrote: »

Its an individual decision whether to leave the panel because of the manager, so no quite clearly it isn't a strike. Nor has anyone even left yet.

Whether anybody has officially left yet or not, people are getting very very tired of these whingers!! If they don't like the manager, tough. Managers don't have to be liked. Donal O'Grady's brother Dessie coached me for 2 years. I won't say what I thought of him personally, but I will say he was a fantastic manager. Others would probably have it the other way around. Fact of the matter is, boss is the boss. If players could pick whose in charge of them, why not pick someone who's buddy buddy with em and make sure they're all on the team. Kilkenny are making their plans for next year's 4-in-arow, while the Cork team are having their usual string of tea parties and taking ballots.

I say, let em pick their own manager. Let em do it all their own way. But when they don't achieve better than Gerald, ie; beat Kilkenny, they can tuck their tails, come back, and apologise to the man, who, at the end of the day, is just doing his job, as appointed by the people who were appointed by all of us. The way he stuck up for them after the whole incident in Thurles, makes me sick the way they'd turn on him like this.

Daysha · 27-10-2008 11:53PM

^^^ Pretty much summed up what I was going to reply myself.

Orizio · 28-10-2008 01:21AM

Well you should have written it more clearly then. What you said was "Frank Murphy is a bollocks..." Which would lead me to believe that what you meant was "Frank Murphy is a bollocks"

Your blaming me for your mistake? Give me a break.

As Deise put it. Just because it's not called a strike doesn't mean it's a strike.

Feel free to look up the term 'strike' in a dictionary.

Beyond that, I'm not going to say whether or not I think the Cork players are right, because I honestly don't know. Undeniably, there are too many big ego's with big mouths in Cork Hurling right now, and they don't just exist on the panel. However, I resent the fact that the media are going to town on this story when there hasn't even been a strike, nor has there been retirements announced, and when players in other counties 'undermine' their managers regurly in a similar manner and it barely gets mentioned. Not to mention the sudden love for Frank Murphy is absurd in the extreme.

Daysha · 28-10-2008 01:38AM

Orizio wrote: »

Beyond that, I'm not going to say whether or not I think the Cork players are right, because I honestly don't know. Undeniably, there are too many big ego's with big mouths in Cork Hurling right now, and they don't just exist on the panel. However, I resent the fact that the media are going to town on this story when there hasn't even been a strike, nor has there been retirements announced, and when players in other counties 'undermine' their managers regurly in a similar manner and it barely gets mentioned. Not to mention the sudden love for Frank Murphy is absurd in the extreme.

I guess I can understand your unwillingness to "jump on the bandwagon" so to speak, but we are not talking about any old version of player power. This is taking it to an extreme never before seen in the history of the GAA.

You compare the situation down in Cork to happenings elsewhere where players "undermine" their managers, but you feel the media are coming down unfairly heavily on them, correct? Well let me compare this for you:

1) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing the strong possibility of practically an ENTIRE PANEL willing to stand down due to their unhappiness with regards to the current manager.

2) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing a manager who has given so much to his players be so unfairly treated. Gerald showed loyality to the Semplegate players when no one else would. The media know this, and the fact that a similar situation never occured with, say, John Meyler in Wexford means its obvious that the media are going to highlight this case more than others.

3) Nowhere else in the country have we seen such a continous flow of discontent like we have in Cork since 2002. The case in Wexford was the first time many of us heard of such happenings in the county, but that certainly isn't the case here. And given the previous history of disagreements between the players and the board, it's only natural that a more sustained media coverage be put in place here.

4) Cork are one of the most successful countys in the history of the GAA, so again it's only natural that those players are under the spotlight more. If an average League 1 player in England hands in a transfer request, do you think that should get just as much media coverage as Cristiano Ronaldo doing the same thing? Of course not.

Find me a similar case somewhere in the country where 98% of the panel of a successful hurling team contemplates the prospect of retiring because they do not want a certain manager in charge, a man who stuck by them when difficulties arose, and I might reconsider your argument with regards the media.

evil-monkey · 28-10-2008 10:21AM

Orizio wrote: »

Your blaming me for your mistake? Give me a break.

Feel free to look up the term 'strike' in a dictionary.

Beyond that, I'm not going to say whether or not I think the Cork players are right, because I honestly don't know. Undeniably, there are too many big ego's with big mouths in Cork Hurling right now, and they don't just exist on the panel. However, I resent the fact that the media are going to town on this story when there hasn't even been a strike, nor has there been retirements announced, and when players in other counties 'undermine' their managers regurly in a similar manner and it barely gets mentioned. Not to mention the sudden love for Frank Murphy is absurd in the extreme.

No, I'm blaming you for typing "Frank Murphy is a bollocks..." and expecting me to think you were in his corner.

The fact that you are argueing that this is not technically a strike just appears as desperation. This is effectively a strike. In fact it's worse. In a strike there is an indication that players will be willing to return. In this case, they are just going to walk away completely if they don't get their lollipop.

deise59 wrote: »

I guess I can understand your unwillingness to "jump on the bandwagon" so to speak, but we are not talking about any old version of player power. This is taking it to an extreme never before seen in the history of the GAA.

You compare the situation down in Cork to happenings elsewhere where players "undermine" their managers, but you feel the media are coming down unfairly heavily on them, correct? Well let me compare this for you:

1) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing the strong possibility of practically an ENTIRE PANEL willing to stand down due to their unhappiness with regards to the current manager.

2) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing a manager who has given so much to his players be so unfairly treated. Gerald showed loyality to the Semplegate players when no one else would. The media know this, and the fact that a similar situation never occured with, say, John Meyler in Wexford means its obvious that the media are going to highlight this case more than others.

3) Nowhere else in the country have we seen such a continous flow of discontent like we have in Cork since 2002. The case in Wexford was the first time many of us heard of such happenings in the county, but that certainly isn't the case here. And given the previous history of disagreements between the players and the board, it's only natural that a more sustained media coverage be put in place here.

4) Cork are one of the most successful countys in the history of the GAA, so again it's only natural that those players are under the spotlight more. If an average League 1 player in England hands in a transfer request, do you think that should get just as much media coverage as Cristiano Ronaldo doing the same thing? Of course not.

Find me a similar case somewhere in the country where 98% of the panel of a successful hurling team contemplates the prospect of retiring because they do not want a certain manager in charge, a man who stuck by them when difficulties arose, and I might reconsider your argument with regards the media.

I too would be very interested to hear your answers to these.

techie666 · 28-10-2008 10:31AM

Orizio wrote: »

Good point, Frank Murphy is a bollocks...unless he is giving it to the Cork panel, and then he is a hero.

How can you call Frank Murphy a bollocks when you know **** all about hurling. Orizio, you are talking some amount of ****. Some allmightyfull amount of ****. You are one of these dicks who never played a game of hurling in his life I'd say, and just goes on and on about this and that and does haven't a clue what he's talking about. THE PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF GIRLS. THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING ON AND OFF LIKE A PACK OF FANNIES FOR THE LAST DECADE AND WE ARE SICK TO **** OF THEM AND DELUDED FANS LIKE YOU WHO AFE SO BLIND ITS PATHETIC.

evil-monkey · 28-10-2008 10:36AM

techie666 wrote: »

How can you call Frank Murphy a bollocks when you know **** all about hurling. Orizio, you are talking some amount of ****. Some allmightyfull amount of ****. You are one of these dicks who never played a game of hurling in his life I'd say, and just goes on and on about this and that and does haven't a clue what he's talking about. THE PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF GIRLS. THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING ON AND OFF LIKE A PACK OF FANNIES FOR THE LAST DECADE AND WE ARE SICK TO **** OF THEM AND DELUDED FANS LIKE YOU WHO AFE SO BLIND ITS PATHETIC.

:rolleyes: easy there buddy!! let's keep it civil...

Daysha · 28-10-2008 11:20AM

techie666 wrote: »

How can you call Frank Murphy a bollocks when you know **** all about hurling. Orizio, you are talking some amount of ****. Some allmightyfull amount of ****. You are one of these dicks who never played a game of hurling in his life I'd say, and just goes on and on about this and that and does haven't a clue what he's talking about. THE PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF GIRLS. THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING ON AND OFF LIKE A PACK OF FANNIES FOR THE LAST DECADE AND WE ARE SICK TO **** OF THEM AND DELUDED FANS LIKE YOU WHO AFE SO BLIND ITS PATHETIC.

Well you haven't lasted long round these parts....personal insults are a big no-no

Daysha · 28-10-2008 11:21AM

Getting back on-topic, delighted to see Gerald still sticking to his guns.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2008/1028/cork.html?gaa

smashey · 28-10-2008 11:22AM

techie666 wrote: »

How can you call Frank Murphy a bollocks when you know **** all about hurling. Orizio, you are talking some amount of ****. Some allmightyfull amount of ****. You are one of these dicks who never played a game of hurling in his life I'd say, and just goes on and on about this and that and does haven't a clue what he's talking about. THE PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF GIRLS. THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING ON AND OFF LIKE A PACK OF FANNIES FOR THE LAST DECADE AND WE ARE SICK TO **** OF THEM AND DELUDED FANS LIKE YOU WHO AFE SO BLIND ITS PATHETIC.

Banned for a month for now.

I'll be discussing it with the other mods and might just make it permanent.

Waylander · 28-10-2008 11:27AM

Jayz Orizio you just keep your head buried in the sand there. There have been murmurs of strike since this story broke, and really the only thing you have demostrated so far in this thread is that you dont really know what you are talking about. You didnt even know that the team had met Mc Carthy to ask him not to accept the role.

If the players do go on strike I look forward to a hurling championship without a Cork team next year, I am gueessing all the other Muster counties are pretty much hoping for that too!

evil-monkey · 28-10-2008 01:31PM

Waylander wrote: »

Jayz Orizio you just keep your head buried in the sand there. There have been murmurs of strike since this story broke, and really the only thing you have demostrated so far in this thread is that you dont really know what you are talking about. You didnt even know that the team had met Mc Carthy to ask him not to accept the role.

If the players do go on strike I look forward to a hurling championship without a Cork team next year, I am gueessing all the other Muster counties are pretty much hoping for that too!

+1 both points, as much as it pains me to admit to the second

Hitman Actual · 28-10-2008 02:18PM

deise59 wrote: »

Edit: Just been doing a bit more reading on this and came across a fantastic article in todays Tribune outlining how this all came to blows. Here's the link: http://www.tribune.ie/sport/hurling/article/2008/oct/26/wary-rebels-rise-up-again/. A similar editorial in todays Indo was pretty interesting too: http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/united-they-fall-1510553.html

Two excellent articles. Even though I was dead against the strike last year, and going against the general feeling here I can't help feeling some sympathy for the players. There's nothing worse than playing under a manager that you have no belief or confidence in. It's generally a waste of a year for everyone concerned.

I'm curious how the appointment system works in Cork though: why did the players not canvass their club delegates to the county board to vote against the appointment? 88 votes to 6 is a serious landslide. Something doesn't add up here.

premierstone · 28-10-2008 03:39PM

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Two excellent articles. Even though I was dead against the strike last year, and going against the general feeling here I can't help feeling some sympathy for the players. There's nothing worse than playing under a manager that you have no belief or confidence in. It's generally a waste of a year for everyone concerned.

I'm curious how the appointment system works in Cork though: why did the players not canvass their club delegates to the county board to vote against the appointment? 88 votes to 6 is a serious landslide. Something doesn't add up here.

From talking to a few guys involved in the club scene in Cork it would appear that the clubs are as fed up with the players as much as most others

Waylander · 28-10-2008 03:50PM

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Two excellent articles. Even though I was dead against the strike last year, and going against the general feeling here I can't help feeling some sympathy for the players. There's nothing worse than playing under a manager that you have no belief or confidence in. It's generally a waste of a year for everyone concerned.

I'm curious how the appointment system works in Cork though: why did the players not canvass their club delegates to the county board to vote against the appointment? 88 votes to 6 is a serious landslide. Something doesn't add up here.

The players have 2 players (Donal Og and John Gardiner) on the relevant committee. They did not vote in the reappointment, which I assume means they are only there to consult on the players feelings, but they were there and had the opportunity to make their position clear.

Hitman Actual · 28-10-2008 04:55PM

Okay. I just find it strange that if the players are genuinely of the opinion that McCarthy is not the man for the job , the clubs/supporters don't think the same. Lets face it, the supporters are usually the first to cry for the managers head.

buck65 · 28-10-2008 05:10PM

He is obviously not the man, look at Cork's hurling over the past 2 years...
Cork players were spoiled by O Grady and Allen - 2 great managers forward thinking etc. They are beginning to realise that they are the exception rather than the rule.
This is going to have major consequences in Cork, as the Tribune says the public sympathy is no longer with the players after failures ( 5 chpsp defeats) in the past 2 years.

evil-monkey · 28-10-2008 06:26PM

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Okay. I just find it strange that if the players are genuinely of the opinion that McCarthy is not the man for the job , the clubs/supporters don't think the same. Lets face it, the supporters are usually the first to cry for the managers head.

very fair point.

Orizio · 29-10-2008 12:13AM

On the strike point, if this was a strike then the whole of the panel would have refused to play for Gerald McCarthy and then made certain demands that had to be accepted before they went off strike again, like last year when the whole panel refusing to play because of the selection process.

What has happened lately is that it is done to individuals as to whether or not they should 'retire' or stay on. Nor has anyone actually left the panel yet, some of the players have merely expressed their disagreement with the apointment of Gerlad McCarthy. Beyond that, nothing. Where is the strike exactly? How is the possibility of the some players retiring, via an individual decision, a strike?

BTW, this Gardiner/Donal Og representing the views of the panel bull**** needs to stop, note Brian Murphy in todays Evening Echo saying he had no problem whatsoever playing for Gerald McCarthy and stating that he fundamentally disagreed with the idea of players questioning the manager.

Orizio · 29-10-2008 12:37AM

1) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing the strong possibility of practically an ENTIRE PANEL willing to stand down due to their unhappiness with regards to the current manager.

Note the term 'possibility'. Note the fact that Brian Murphy, for one, is not going anywhere. Note that no one has actually left the panel, or retired. You are assuming far too much.

2) Nowhere else in the country are we seeing a manager who has given so much to his players be so unfairly treated. Gerald showed loyality to the Semplegate players when no one else would. The media know this, and the fact that a similar situation never occured with, say, John Meyler in Wexford means its obvious that the media are going to highlight this case more than others.

Justin McCarthy.

Its also odd that you seem to think 'no one else' would show loyalty to the 'semplegate' players. Why? The fans were behind the semplegate players competely, and these players were essential to the success of Cork's season. He had no choice, nor a reason not to, support the players.

I'll concede points beyond that, my main problem is with the continous use of the term 'strike' inaccurately and the over sensationalising of the of the situation of the media. Let me repeat - there is no strike and no players have left the panel. Some of the panel have expressed their disapointment at Gerald McCarthy's reapointment (with good reason, considering the lack of success over the last couple of years amongst other things) privately and face to face to McCarthy. Thats it. The idea expressed by many here that the whole of the panel is in some way backstabbing McCarthy is odd, as is the idea that the situation now is comparably as bad as last years very real crisis.

Let me put it lack this - if the bulk of the panel do retire, rather then just the bulk of the '99 lads, most of whom are due to retire anyway, then you can feel free to tell me 'I told you so'. However, I seriously do not see the likes of Shane O'Neill, Curran, Kenny, the O'Connor's walking away. Wait and see I guess.

Orizio · 29-10-2008 12:44AM

techie666 wrote: »

How can you call Frank Murphy a bollocks when you know **** all about hurling. Orizio, you are talking some amount of ****. Some allmightyfull amount of ****. You are one of these dicks who never played a game of hurling in his life I'd say, and just goes on and on about this and that and does haven't a clue what he's talking about. THE PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF GIRLS. THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING ON AND OFF LIKE A PACK OF FANNIES FOR THE LAST DECADE AND WE ARE SICK TO **** OF THEM AND DELUDED FANS LIKE YOU WHO AFE SO BLIND ITS PATHETIC.

Hey hey I played underage Hurling for my Junior A team for years so I did, a little respect

. Even marked, and/or played with, Paudie O'Sullivan, Adrian Mannix, John Halbert amongst others...they all destroyed me but still.

evil-monkey · 29-10-2008 12:47AM

Orizio wrote: »

Some of the panel have expressed their disapointment at Gerald McCarthy's reapointment (with good reason, considering the lack of success over the last couple of years amongst other things) privately and face to face to McCarthy.

Privately? There was nothing private about it. But to be fair, their whinging never is.

evil-monkey · 29-10-2008 12:48AM

Orizio wrote: »

they all destroyed me but still.

i always said that it's the thought that counts :P

Orizio · 29-10-2008 12:57AM

evil-monkey wrote: »

Privately? There was nothing private about it. But to be fair, their whinging never is.

They called a private meeting with McCarthy, and the media reported on said meeting. Yes?

There is a good chance I'm wrong of course, but they certainly said it face to face.

Cork Hurling Manager?

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