Dublin Marathon Photos

Stupid_Private · 24-10-2008 07:50PM #1

Hi,

I'm a regular on the athletics forum... first time here, so hello!

I've had a look at the rules of posting here and I'm unsure if it's OK to mention my site, so I won't for the time being. Basically I've set up a photo website where runners can search for photos of themselves in races they've run. Race photography is very popular among runners but an annoying thing as "official" photographers charge for the photos. This site is 100% non-commercial and there is no charge for anyone to access the photos. In fact they are all stored on flickr. The application on my site allows the runners to search for them.

The reason I'm posting here is just incase any of you will be practicing your sports photography during the marathon on Monday morning. If you are there'll be plenty of runners who'd love to see the photos afterwards. If there's no interest, fair enough. If anyone is interested, and it's cool with the moderators, I'll put a link to the site here... or I could always just PM it to anyone who wants.

CabanSail · 24-10-2008 07:56PM

I am one of the "official" photographers.

Stupid_Private · 24-10-2008 07:59PM

CabanSail wrote: »

I am one of the "official" photographers.

Hahah, what were the odds? *takes step back*
When I mentioned the site on the marathon page the first response called them "official" photographs...
*continues digging*

seanybiker · 24-10-2008 08:00PM

sounds interesting . Me brother is doing the marathon so be nice to have a pic of him in bits lol

Eirebear · 24-10-2008 08:07PM

I done a shift with one of these Marathon photo companies a few months back for the Race for Life up in Inverness.

My god it was horrible, 3 of us Vs 5,000 tired, redfaced, sweaty women.

AnimalRights · 24-10-2008 08:07PM

I thought this was the Womens marathon? Or was that in the summer?

Borderfox · 24-10-2008 08:15PM

Stupid Private what is your job?

CabanSail · 24-10-2008 08:23PM

I have done four events so far for Marathonfoto after answering an email they sent me. Three of the events were the lead up races to this weekends Marathon. There was a 5 mile, 10 mile & a Half Marathon in Phoenix Park. Then they flew me to Italy to do a Half Marathon there. They pay expenses & provide the cameras, which is good as you tend to shoot about 1000 images an hour.

Stupid_Private · 24-10-2008 08:46PM

Borderfox wrote: »

Stupid Private what is your job?

Web Developer.

CabanSail wrote: »

Then they flew me to Italy to do a Half Marathon there. They pay expenses & provide the cameras, which is good as you tend to shoot about 1000 images an hour.

That sounds class. There must be plenty of people that fork out for pictures of themselves near exhaustion on coffee mugs!

AnimalRights wrote: »

I thought this was the Womens marathon? Or was that in the summer?

Women's mini marathon is in May I think. Stress the mini as it's 6 miles.
This is the real marathon 26 miles.

Dodgykeeper · 24-10-2008 08:51PM

Borderfox wrote: »

Stupid Private what is your job?

Pls dont Borderfox, it gets boring!

Calina · 24-10-2008 08:54PM

Stupid_Private wrote: »

.... Race photography is very popular among runners but an annoying thing as "official" photographers charge for the photos.

I'm having a problem with the concept of this being "annoying" to be honest with you. I don't get where the problem with paying for a photograph which someone used a bit of expertise to take is.

What exactly are you proposing? I have no beef to defend anyone working for the official agency - I know a bit about it - but I do have a beef with someone suggesting that boards.ie photographers - a few of whom are semi-pro - might be expected to provide free access to photographs they take either because you and others find the official agency irksome for wanting to be paid.

You say that the photos would continue to be stored on flickr's servers; I have to ask would they be shown on your site? You would definitely need permission from the photographers concerned to do that.

Obviously, there is nothing to stop any photographer concerned from contacting you privately to say yay or nay but I am afraid that from the information you've provided here I'd be on shaky ground to say yes to posting your site given that the overwhelming impression you are giving - be it right or wrong - that you want to do this because you want stuff for free. That's not fully fair on the photographers.

I think it might be beneficial to explain what it is you want and what exactly your application does. As things stand, you haven't sold the idea to me at all.

Dodgykeeper · 24-10-2008 08:58PM

He wants something for free! :eek:

Let him post his link so people can see for themselves what he wants, I myself would have no problem giving people images of themselves for free under these circumstances, posters here are mature enough to make up their own mind about this issue!

Calina · 24-10-2008 09:03PM

DK, I don't have an issue with people making their own decision one way or the other.

However, I want to know what exactly it is he wants from the photographers here before I say yes or no to the site being posted here. It sounds like some sort of a flickr aggregator; I'd like to know if it selects based on tag or on flickr userid, for example, or whether it's like one of the countless sites around the world that aggregates all photos with a specific tag - I know, for example, that there are a handful of sites reading flickr for surf shots without bothering to check the licences applied to the photographs or check with the photographers.

With the best will in the world, that's not nice. I'm just asking for a little more information here. I'd also add that by and large I don't step into arguments about free stuff or photographers wanting to get paid.

Dodgykeeper · 24-10-2008 09:06PM

OK so can I suggest the OP pm the link to Calina then she can decide, You can send it too me while your at it, wont be around on Monday but know somebody who maybe!

Stupid_Private · 24-10-2008 09:13PM

Calina wrote: »

I think it might be beneficial to explain what it is you want and what exactly your application does. As things stand, you haven't sold the idea to me at all.

I don't have an agenda against the agencies that provide photos at their races. The photos that will by and large be shown on my site will be from friends and families of the people running the race.

Rather than post the link to the site I'll give you the contents of the How it works page.

xxx allows you to get your photographs of runners into the hands of the people that value them most - the runners themselves.
Sign up with xxx first, then head over to Flickr and tag each photo you upload there with:

* xxx,
* the name of the race (DM08 for the Dublin Marathon), and
* the bib numbers of the runners in each photograph you upload.

This allows us to identify the photos on Flickr and make sure that runners can find the photos you have taken. You’ll need to sign up for a Flickr account first - but don’t worry, it’s free!

The owner of the photo will have had to have tagged the photo for it to appear on my site. They untag it and it disappears from my site. All links on the picture go back to the users Flickr site.

I just jumped in here as I thought there may be a few people who'd be around town, watching and may take some photos and want the people who they've taken pictures of to see them. It was not in any way to take a pop at agencies providing the photos and sorry if anyone is offended by my throw away comment about finding it annoying having to pay for them. It was not an attack on the photographers.

Really I don't need to put the link to my site here as the site is only of interest to the person who's run it. It's like the marathonfoto site, mentioned above, no ones going to go to that site unless they've run the race. If anyone takes photos on the day and wants the runners to see them they can just flip me a PM.

Calina · 24-10-2008 09:39PM

So basically, the photographs are displayed on your site, and it's based on userid and tag.

Ultimately, I agree in principle with the idea of what you are doing - getting people to the photographs of them. It's just the way you described it above left a certain amount to be desired.

I see two options: 1) if people are interested in participating, they can PM you or 2) you can post a link to the site provided you can confirm to me you comply with Flickr's T&Cs regarding linkbacks to the original photograph pages.

You'd be surprised; people might not necessarily be interested in what you are using the site for but might consider it useful for something they want to do on another subject. If the tags and userid are customisable, it could be interesting for someone setting up a gallery of their own. Hence a few people might well want a look at it.

Borderfox · 24-10-2008 09:50PM

I would agree with Calina's summing up of the situation, a good idea in principle but the asking left a lot to be desired..

AnCatDubh · 24-10-2008 10:22PM

Stupid_Private wrote: »

sorry if anyone is offended by my throw away comment about finding it annoying having to pay for them

I actually think you may just be expressing what people, not in the way of the fine art that those of these parts value, generally would feel - i think people around this forum may be a little sensitive to the sentiment and understandably so. I guess whether we photographers like it or not we probably have to understand that this is a view held in the wider public arena.

Good luck with your venture.

AnimalRights · 24-10-2008 10:43PM

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I guess whether we Taximen like it or not we probably have to understand that this is a view held in the wider public arena.

Sounds familiar....

RoryW · 25-10-2008 12:10AM

Looking at your website (it was very easy to find!) is your website for making money or for the general good of runners finding photographs ?

Your website was only created on 23 October (yesterday) and consists of only a few pages so it is unclear.

Also if I can suggest a change - your "contact us" link should provide real contact details phone, address, email rather than submit a query to contact us format. I think this is now a legal requirement

Dodgykeeper · 25-10-2008 12:21AM

RoryW wrote: »

Looking at your website (it was very easy to find!) is your website for making money or for the general good of runners finding photographs ?

Your website was only created on 23 October (yesterday) and consists of only a few pages so it is unclear.

Also if I can suggest a change - your "contact us" link should provide real contact details phone, address, email rather than submit a query to contact us format. I think this is now a legal requirement

You found the site, well done now read it and you will see that it is for the general good of the runners.

Why in Gods name should a guy trying to help other people find images of themselves on the net provide his Phone Number and Address?

Stupid_Private · 25-10-2008 09:52AM

RoryW wrote: »

Looking at your website (it was very easy to find!) is your website for making money or for the general good of runners finding photographs ?

Your website was only created on 23 October (yesterday) and consists of only a few pages so it is unclear.

Also if I can suggest a change - your "contact us" link should provide real contact details phone, address, email rather than submit a query to contact us format. I think this is now a legal requirement

The site is non-commercial. As it explains in the about us section "All the photos we show here are completely free to download from Flickr".

As the site is a personal site there is no legal requirement (as far as I'm aware) to display full contact details. Otherwise all bloggers out their would be legally obliged to provide their details on their sites. Commercial websites require full contact details and business numbers.

Finally, the site was only created on the 23rd October. What this has to do with anything I don't know. I've been working on the idea for a while, thought I could get something out before the marathon and have a bit of interest in it before concentrating on races that have 100 odd people in them.

CabanSail · 25-10-2008 10:25AM

Let me first state that I have no problem with you setting up the site & letting runners have access to your photographs. I also like sharing my images with people & as it's a hobby do not charge for them, even though it is a small cost to me.

Stupid_Private wrote: »

Race photography is very popular among runners but an annoying thing as "official" photographers charge for the photos.

What you have to remember is that the "official" photographers have quite a lot of expenses to cover to obtain these photographs. The company has to get a contract to cover the race. For the Dublin Marathon this contract covers all the lead up races too which would not be very profitable & may even lose money. There is a lot of equipment that is dedicated to the venture. The cameras will get anywhere from 1000 to 5000 actuations per race. This gear has to be brought in from the UK or USA. The photographers have to be paid to be there too. Then there are the costs of processing thousands of images & having them sorted into folders for each individual runner & this needs to be done very soon after the race. All these expenses have to be covered by the sale of the images.

I just wanted to point these things out as you seem to resent the "official" photographers.

Calina · 25-10-2008 10:33AM

Stupid_Private wrote: »

As it explains in the about us section "All the photos we show here are completely free to download from Flickr".

Actually, you cannot make that statement and be guaranteed that it is true. Whether images can be downloaded legitimately from Flickr depends on the licence applied by the photographer. Every single one of my photographs has All Rights Reserved which means actually you shouldn't download them from Flickr for free or otherwise. You can view them in a browser...but that's it unless the photographer has allowed it, usually via a Creative Commons.

I think you need to reconsider that. I have no beef again with enabling people to find the photos; saying they can then download them is a different kettle of fish.

Stupid_Private · 25-10-2008 02:32PM

CabanSail wrote: »

I just wanted to point these things out as you seem to resent the "official" photographers.

Cheers for the info on the work that goes into the official photographs of an event. By no way did I think it was a small thing to organise. I have raced as one of 12000 people before and got caught on about 5 or 6 different pictures. It is something that is appreciated. The fact that I don't want to pay for a photo after paying €80 to be in the event is neither here nor there really. That is not an attack on the agencies or the photographers, that's just how I personally feel.

I thought I cleared up this with my earlier post where I apologised for any offence. I've been very light hearted in every response this far with regards the offical photos but you've gone back to my first post again. I'm not going to keep repeating my prior apology.

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I don't have an agenda against the agencies that provide photos at their races. The photos that will by and large be shown on my site will be from friends and families of the people running the race.
....
It was not in any way to take a pop at agencies providing the photos and sorry if anyone is offended by my throw away comment about finding it annoying having to pay for them. It was not an attack on the photographers.

CabanSail · 25-10-2008 04:02PM

I know it wasn't an attack. The €80 you pay to the Race Organisers is a seperate matter to the Photography.

Photo's from Family & Friends is fine but there will not be the bulk photography as done by the companies. You say that you appreciate the fact that the Photographers are there to capture the images & it's fair enough that you make the choice not to buy them. The "Agencies" have no objection to private photography & they have no right to either. If your system is used to undermine them & make it unprofitable then they will not do those events any more. They have other income streams & they will concentrate them instead. The runners in these races will then have to depend on your system alone. I sort of doubt it would come to that but it's the point I was trying to make.

Krusty_Clown · 25-10-2008 04:03PM

I am a participant in the aforementioned race, and a hobbyist photographer and have, in the past, enjoyed reading and benefiting from this forum. On the day itself, if there are official photographs that manage to capture my image correctly (quite often, due to the number of participants and crowding, this can be quite difficult), and also portray me in a reasonable light (again, this has nothing to do with the photographers, and more to do with my form at that stage of the race:o) then I will most certainly purchase them. Particularly the finish line photo, to which only the official photographers will have access.

If some amateur photographers are willing to practice their art and share their captured images with those of us struggling around the 26 mile course, I would be delighted if they managed to capture an image of me, and made it available and would be very appreciative of their efforts. Sharing the photos is not an involuntary activity. The photos have to be tagged in Flickr in a specific format, including the runners' bib number, in order to be searchable. If a photographer does not want their photos included, simply do not tag them in the required format. End of story.

I assume that this forum still caters for professional and amateur photographers. As per a previous post to the OP (on another forum), I have asked my wife to take as many photos as she can, and I will personally tag them, upload them, and share them via the OP's very well intentioned website. It could, potentially, offer budding amateur photographers an opportunity to demonstrate their skills, or if nothing else, demonstrate their generosity.

I am not affiliated with this site or the OP in any way.

robinph · 25-10-2008 04:39PM

I'm also going to be running on Monday.

I like the idea of this site just to be able to find whatever dodgy quality picture of myself looking knackered on the streets of Dublin though. I don't feel it's worth paying €10-60 for a print of me in that state though when all I'm actually interested in is a couple of links to low quality pics that I can email to people. I might pay €60 for a finishing picture though, but only in the event of me wining.

RoryW · 25-10-2008 04:54PM

Stupid_Private wrote: »

The site is non-commercial.

Good luck with the venture then.

PJW · 25-10-2008 05:13PM

robinph wrote: »

I'm also going to be running on Monday.

I like the idea of this site just to be able to find whatever dodgy quality picture of myself looking knackered on the streets of Dublin though. I don't feel it's worth paying €10-60 for a print of me in that state though when all I'm actually interested in is a couple of links to low quality pics that I can email to people. I might pay €60 for a finishing picture though, but only in the event of me wining.

Exactly, there is no commercial value photographing losers :pac:,

but it seems to me if you want a partisipation photo for free then get a family member to stand in the rain for a few hours and take one, you should get the "dodgy quality picture" you want however if you want an image taken by someone else and they have a charge associated with it, then cough up.

robinph · 25-10-2008 05:26PM

There is no commercial value in photographing me taking part in yet another race. I'm sure there will make plenty of money to be made from people taking part in their first/ only marathons though and selling them framed prints.

I'm just mildly interested in the pictures taken by family member stood on the side of the route type quality. However, not having any family members to send out to stand there for me if someone else's family does get a shot of me then I'd be interested in seeing it.

I cannot see this taking away from the official photographers at all. Their market is the once off runners who will be getting spammed with emails from marathonfoto to pursuade them to buy the framed pictures. This site seems more for regular runners just looking to browse through various races they may have taken part in on the off chance there is a snapshot of them but are unlikely to be buying any pictures anyway.

Dublin Marathon Photos

Comments