Let's Talk Mixing Pt 1 : What's on your 2-bus?

jtsuited · 03-10-2008 04:55PM #1

Ok with all the Mac vs. PC silliness (which I am proudly a agitator!), and other stuff, I thought we should maybe talk about some nitty-gritty stuff.

So above is a poll about one aspect of mixing I've been thinking about lately.

Now in the genre I deal in, sticking a big limiter across your master before you even start making a track is commonplace (and is not too bad a practice given the genre), but I was interested in seeing how other people work.

Personally, I've started sticking a good bit of compression over the 2-buss about halfway through a mix, as I found mixing without it would just lead to great sounding non-mastered mixes and then not too great mastered mixes.

Of course I always bounce down an alternative mix with no master-bus compression (just in case the Mastering Engineer wants it).

Discuss

trackmixstudio · 03-10-2008 05:20PM

Nothing on the 2 bus for me.
I prefer to get levels using group (bus) compression on the drums.
A compressor on the 2 bus sucks the whole mix back on the kick and snare hits if you don't get them under control before hitting the master fader. I generally parallel compress the kick(s) and snare then group the whole kit to one stereo bus then squash and play with attack and release times to get the drums fat but not obtrusive.
I can't participate in the poll because the "no" option continues to say because it makes everything muddy which is not my reason.
As for Mac/PC silliness, I think we all know that there is only PC silliness:D

jtsuited · 03-10-2008 05:27PM

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Nothing on the 2 bus for me.
I prefer to get levels using group (bus) compression on the drums.
A compressor on the 2 bus sucks the whole mix back on the kick and snare hits if you don't get them under control before hitting the master fader. I generally parallel compress the kick(s) and snare then group the whole kit to one stereo bus then squash and play with attack and release times to get the drums fat but not obtrusive.
I can't participate in the poll because the "no" option continues to say because it makes everything muddy which is not my reason.
As for Mac/PC silliness, I think we all know that there is only PC silliness:D

excellent response.
I've been parallel compressing my kicks and snares (and normally a bassline or two to slam it out a bit) but have been finding it difficult to make the snare transients poke out as much as I'd like.

One of the main reasons I started stickin on a compressor during the mix was actually to stop my kicks and snares getting 'de-punch-ified' during mastering. Takes a good bit of practice though to stop them getting sucked out by the 2-bus compression though.

DamagedTrax · 03-10-2008 05:47PM

currently im mixing more or less ITB so mine usually has tritone colour tone with the studer IR (very mild, usually only 1/2 of colouration), then the waves ssl comp and then just the old elemental audio meters & analyzers.

comp is usually set to a very mild -1/-2 rd and is really only used to add a touch of glue (it seems to sound beautiful mixed with the studer IR) - ill usually turn this on when i have a rough mix done and a few sends sorted out.

most of my main compression is done in the groups

dunno how true it is but ive always assumed that smaller amounts of compression thru-out the chain will get a much louder and dynamic mix (without having to slam the limiter) when it comes to mastering, rather than just slamming a comp on the 2 and crushing evrything.

dav nagle · 03-10-2008 06:12PM

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Nothing on the 2 bus for me.
I prefer to get levels using group (bus) compression on the drums.
A compressor on the 2 bus sucks the whole mix back on the kick and snare hits if you don't get them under control before hitting the master fader. I generally parallel compress the kick(s) and snare then group the whole kit to one stereo bus then squash and play with attack and release times to get the drums fat but not obtrusive.
I can't participate in the poll because the "no" option continues to say because it makes everything muddy which is not my reason.
As for Mac/PC silliness, I think we all know that there is only PC silliness:D

Hilarious!:)

PaulBrewer · 03-10-2008 06:34PM

Usually use the SSL Bus comp in the console or Manley Vari-Mu.
Either when the thought strikes us, or when things are sounding shyte!

The SSL usually gets kicked in first (out of laziness usually, as it's already there) remembering it's more 'rock'n'roll' - but if we need some posh/shiny - ness, the Manley is the boy.

You can melt the SSL meter without too much bother whereas the Manley is more fussy though not to the level of being hard to use.

Sometimes the Manley adds a nice overall shine which can be desirable without using it's compression, perhaps the valves just smooth things a bit.

We'd use it on every mix.

trackmixstudio · 03-10-2008 06:56PM

jtsuited wrote: »

excellent response.
One of the main reasons I started stickin on a compressor during the mix was actually to stop my kicks and snares getting 'de-punch-ified' during mastering. Takes a good bit of practice though to stop them getting sucked out by the 2-bus compression though.

Here is a trick that will really help you with this problem.
Bus all your tracks apart from the drums and notch a hole for your kick and snare in the bus using a good eq. This should help with overall mix level and let you get the rest of the track up there leaving the drums very clear but not so high above the mix that the master compressor will suck the whole mix back on the hits. I do this very often or even most of the time.

trackmixstudio · 03-10-2008 06:58PM

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Usually use the SSL Bus comp in the console or Manley Vari-Mu.
Either when the thought strikes us, or when things are sounding shyte!

The SSL usually gets kicked in first (out of laziness usually, as it's already there) remembering it's more 'rock'n'roll' - but if we need some posh/shiny - ness, the Manley is the boy.

You can melt the SSL meter without too much bother whereas the Manley is more fussy though not to the level of being hard to use.

Sometimes the Manley adds a nice overall shine which can be desirable without using it's compression, perhaps the valves just smooth things a bit.

We'd use it on every mix.

My SSL is away for repair at the moment so I can't comment on this:p

PaulBrewer · 03-10-2008 07:04PM

trackmixstudio wrote: »

My SSL is away for repair at the moment so I can't comment on this:p

Must be a bootleg ..... real SSLs don't break!;)

frobisher · 04-10-2008 01:24PM

Not sure I get why the "no" option says it muddies the mix or makes it mushy. I certainly don't avoid stereo master inserts for that reason. My go to for this job is the PSP Vintage Warmer. Forget about the slightly dodgy name and tweak it a bit and it can be great. I also sometimes LOVE what a little reverb sent from the 2 buss can do too. People talk about master compression gluing a mix, I kinda get what they mean but if you want real glue some reverb from the master outs can give it to you in spades.

squibs · 04-10-2008 03:49PM

Been experimenting with tape saturation plugs on the master bus lately - just enough so you can't really hear it but notice if it is disabled. I believe its a tip frm Charles Dye's MILAR series.

Neurojazz · 05-10-2008 01:42PM

my initial mix has nothing on the buss... then i sometimes separate parts out into 2-4 busses for final mixdown and each buss will have waves l3 and a shelving Eq to clean that up - the waves is used to bring out quiet sounds - not so much to mash the mix.

The 'final' buss for me would be what you'd call a 'pre-master' and you'd call me mad if i told you what i do with it

- the final thing in the slots though is the MD3 - limiter built in, but very light.

seannash · 05-10-2008 05:17PM

i wish i knew what you lads were talking about.i get the feeling theres alot of knowlege being shared on this thread:(:(:(:D

frobisher · 05-10-2008 05:42PM

seannash wrote: »

i wish i knew what you lads were talking about.i get the feeling theres alot of knowlege being shared on this thread:(:(:(:D

Just ask about any elements that you don't understand and we'll be happy to help clear it up.

PaulBrewer · 05-10-2008 06:25PM

seannash wrote: »

i wish i knew what you lads were talking about.i get the feeling theres alot of knowlege being shared on this thread:(:(:(:D

Compression / Limiting on the overall mix. i.e. Bus Compression on the stereo output bus. It's a common process. It's much different that just individually compressing the tracks.

The common description of the effect of this compression is it 'glues' the mix together.

seannash · 06-10-2008 04:32AM

frobisher wrote: »

Just ask about any elements that you don't understand and we'll be happy to help clear it up.

its always a stumbling block of mine.i dont understand it so i never put anything on my master.i compress individual elements and tracks but when it comes to my master channel im stumped.
people have told me to do a final eq on my master but i just cant help but think if you want more of a certain frequency range is it not better to boost the elements in that range instead of eqing the entire thing.
but yeah after that im lost.i never limit because im pretty unsure of how to do it.
i understand what it does but i never apply it

frobisher · 06-10-2008 08:50AM

Seannash: THis outlines some points you may benefit from: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/170189-mix-buss-compression-charles-dye.html

jtsuited · 06-10-2008 12:51PM

frobisher wrote: »

Seannash: THis outlines some points you may benefit from: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/170189-mix-buss-compression-charles-dye.html

Probably the best guide to anything I've ever read!

frobisher · 06-10-2008 02:04PM

jtsuited wrote: »

Probably the best guide to anything I've ever read!

Gearslutz is a super, super site and the new tips and techniques sections hold some seriously valuable info wrapped into easy to read bite sized nuggets.

PaulBrewer · 06-10-2008 03:49PM

frobisher wrote: »

Gearslutz is a super, super site and the new tips and techniques sections hold some seriously valuable info wrapped into easy to read bite sized nuggets.

It's also filled with Tin Roofers... however that does seem to be a good post.

seannash · 06-10-2008 03:50PM

frobisher wrote: »

Seannash: THis outlines some points you may benefit from: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/170189-mix-buss-compression-charles-dye.html

thanks man,reading now

frobisher · 06-10-2008 05:30PM

PaulBrewer wrote: »

It's also filled with Tin Roofers... however that does seem to be a good post.

I haven't noticed it to be site that has a high percentage of tin roofing when compared to the average internet forum. All in all I find it one of the best forums out there.

jtsuited · 06-10-2008 06:07PM

frobisher wrote: »

I haven't noticed it to be site that has a high percentage of tin roofing when compared to the average internet forum. All in all I find it one of the best forums out there.

No there is a good few tin roofers over there.

In the Electronic Music forum, the place is full of hardware synth nuts who genuinely don't make any music. And the ones that do, well, they're rubbish.

Although Robert Babicz posts over there (Mastering forum mainly).

Someone asked 'how do I sound like Robert Babicz', and low and behold Rob shows up!

frobisher · 06-10-2008 07:35PM

jtsuited wrote: »

No there is a good few tin roofers over there.

In the Electronic Music forum, the place is full of hardware synth nuts who genuinely don't make any music. And the ones that do, well, they're rubbish.

Although Robert Babicz posts over there (Mastering forum mainly).

Someone asked 'how do I sound like Robert Babicz', and low and behold Rob shows up!

Of course there are. Remember kids, This Is The Internet.

:p:p If anyone looking to learn and is reading this they should ignore PaulBrewer & jtsuited and trust in papap frob'. Gearslutz contains some great info and exchange of views that we can all learn from. Caveat Emptor.

jtsuited · 06-10-2008 07:47PM

frobisher wrote: »

Of course there are. Remember kids, This Is The Internet. :p:p If anyone looking to learn and is reading this they should ignore PaulBrewer & jtsuited and trust in papap frob'. Gearslutz contains some great info and exchange of views that we can all learn from. Caveat Emptor.

ah yeah there's a lot of good info over there. just the electronic section sucks.

frobisher · 06-10-2008 08:22PM

jtsuited wrote: »

ah yeah there's a lot of good info over there. just the electronic section sucks.

I can't vouch for that section. It actually doesn't seem that busy so if I was looking for that kind of stuff I'd be looking elsewhere. The classified section is great though!

TelePaul · 06-10-2008 08:27PM

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The common description of the effect of this compression is it 'glues' the mix together.

But does it really? I know this is a tall order, but can you explain why it's preferable to compressing individual tracks? Or can you do both?

Also, does compressing the master bus eat into headroom if you're going to master your song?

Finally, could you suggest a few compressor settings (threshold/ratio/attack/release) that one might see on a master bus compressor?

PaulBrewer · 06-10-2008 09:16PM

TelePaul wrote: »

But does it really? Or can you do both?

Oh yes!

seannash · 06-10-2008 09:20PM

TelePaul wrote: »

But does it really? I know this is a tall order, but can you explain why it's preferable to compressing individual tracks? Or can you do both?

Also, does compressing the master bus eat into headroom if you're going to master your song?

Finally, could you suggest a few compressor settings (threshold/ratio/attack/release) that one might see on a master bus compressor?

see im kind of in the same boat,ive lobbed compressors on my master becuase it was the thing to do but i didnt really notice any change except for getting the volume up.maybe im just listening to it wrong or something,coupled with the fact i dont know what im listening for

PaulBrewer · 06-10-2008 09:23PM

seannash wrote: »

see im kind of in the same boat,ive lobbed compressors on my master becuase it was the thing to do but i didnt really notice any change except for getting the volume up.maybe im just listening to it wrong or something,coupled with the fact i dont know what im listening for

Dare I ask....

Using good equipment on good monitors in a good room?

seannash · 06-10-2008 09:28PM

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Dare I ask....

Using good equipment on good monitors in a good room?

its coming out of logic.
rme hammerfall multiface,genelec 8030a monitors.
now granted my room isnt ideal but i should notice a change right

Let's Talk Mixing Pt 1 : What's on your 2-bus?

Do you stick anything on your master bus while mixing? 6 votes

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