That rich farmer down the road.........

astrofool wrote: »

Half my family are farmers.

If beef doesn't pass quality standards, then it shouldn't be allowed for sale over here, then the impetus is on that country to meet standards, not impose massive duties on them/subsidise, removing them from the market place altogether.

If meat can be mass produced in another country, then exported over here, then the environmental cost can be a lot lot less than producing it here. e.g. their farms might be able to rear 5000 cattle, to 50 over here, thus giving a 100:1 return on farming equipment being used through economies of scale. The impact of transport is negligible on that.

How do you reconcile these two posts? South American beef is already raised to a poor standard. You want to remove the EU competition because its not massive enough, and you then think that giving Argentina and Brazil a monopoly on production will entice them to work to higher standards?

If people don't want beef from cattle with foot&mouth, then they won't buy it, and it won't be a problem anyway.

And how will it not be a problem?

Fact is, subsidies have done nothing in the long run other than keep farmers massively inefficient, and caused false prices for our food, hurting the consumer.

Forcing farmers to take the same pay they did twenty years ago, leaving them with nothing to invest in their farms, is a more likely reason for inefficency. You say your family are farmers but I get the feeling you haven't really looked beyond the farm gate on this issue.

The_Minister wrote: »

I thought thats what the paparazzi said about actors.

Obviously, I don't mean anything goes. But they can't have it both ways. They had no problem putting themselves under the spotlight when it suited them.

I think this is unfair, you can`t look up somebodys dole payments or tax credits. Thats not to mention the fact farmers are a contrary lot and Im sure there`l be fist shaking over fences because one fella looked up another fella and saw he was getting more than him.

Most people have the right idea in this thread, farming just isn't profitable in ireland, the average farm size in ireland is 32 hectares, in the UK its 57 hectares. In large country's like america or austraila farms can be vast. Its more intensive too as you have less animals and they are more valuable, you spend more time looking after each one and on vetinary care.

The amount of paperwork has increased alot too as well as regulation of veterinary medicines, back when I was a kid 20 years ago my dad could just buy and administer drugs to animals himself, now for alot of illnesses he needs to call a vet out so he can get a medicine for something he knows how to treat himself. I am not saying these are bad things, its nice to know where you meal came from and that alot of care and attention went into it, but people demand these things but yet would not be willing to pay the additional expense on the food. I saw in one quite expensive restaurant that they sell Argentinian beef, I mean what the hell, we have our own quality beef but these guys sell beef from a country half ways around the world where an animal could have foot and mouth, and could be pumped to the nines with hormones and antibotics (I am not 100% sure on regulation in Argentina to be fair here).

Then we have the amount of work in farming, its pretty much 8 to 8, when I was young there might have been a bit of time off on some afternoons, but paperwork filled those gaps nicely. Then for 6 months in the year it could be calving season so you could be checking animals 24 hours a day. Then other times you could be harvesting and working until midnight. I couldnt live that life, imagine if you worked 365 days a year and if you wanted to take a holiday you`d have to pay somebody to do your work.

Finally farming is a business, its easy to look at 20k grant check out of context and go ****in hell, but if you saw the farmers accounts you`d realise there are alot of expenses. I think personally as a farmers son the only profit in the last few years was in selling the farm as the price of land went up. (and yes it is a load of money, which is even more reason to have respect for many farmers)

astrofool wrote: »

Environmental impact of growing/rearing food in an unsuitable climate > Environmental impact of growing/rearing food in a suitable climate + transport, in most cases.

You mean like raising cattle in the Amazon? Something that has a far greater environmental impact that cattle farming in Ireland.
Ireland is of course suited to cattle farming, you only need to look at the thousands of years of history behind the industry, the fact that cattle were used as currency, the huge emphasis that was put on owning and raising cattle for centuries. Do you think they'd do that with an animal that was more likely to keel over than reach maturity?

astrofool wrote: »

The worst thing that can be done for a business in the long term is to prop it up by subsidising it, it causes huge problems with people taking advantage of the system, and the worst off barely seeing a penny of it (there's an economist article I'll dig up, showing that 70% of subsidies go to the richest 10% of farmers). Subsidies have caused problems such as the farmers having to accept a price for a cow below cost, and have allowed the supermarkets to gain as much power as they have.

The people taking advantage of the system are the Supermarkets and factories paying below the odds for the meat and produce of farmers worldewide. Not on the label should be mandatory reading tbh.

The entire industry needs to be weaned off subsidies as quickly as possible, frankly, I'd be embarrassed earning my living on handouts, and the entire farming industry should be getting together to end them, and ensure they earn a fair living for themselves (for it's no easy life and deserves to be rewarded).

Firstly, no farmer is earning their living on handouts, if you knew the industry and had even glanced at the figures on that site you'd know its not the case. I thought the one good thing that might come from this whole thing would be that people would finally realise that farmers are not rich, but clearly not. Secondly, how do you propose farmers ensure a fairer living? You seem to have all the answers.