That rich farmer down the road.........

mikemac

How much was he getting?

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/cap_ben_default.jsp
You can now see

Now, it doesn't include all payments so it's not a complety accurate figure but it is being updated.

Do you think this is a good idea? It was raised in Farming & Forestry forum but getting a wider debate here.
Would you like to see it extended, maybe people on various benefits? It's your tax money after all.
Or do you reckon it's private information and shouldn't be published.

And folks, I know it's public info but probably best not to post loads of extra info on your neighbours here if you recognize them

stevoman

micmclo wrote: »

How much was he getting?

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/cap_ben_default.jsp
You can now see

Now, it doesn't include all payments so it's not a complety accurate figure but it is being updated.

Do you think this is a good idea? It was raised in Farming & Forestry forum but getting a wider debate here.
Would you like to see it extended, maybe people on various benefits? It's your tax money after all.
Or do you reckon it's private information and shouldn't be published.

And folks, I know it's public info but probably best not to post loads of extra info on your neighbours here if you recognize them

well its EU money, but its a shadey debate. On one hand its not fair on the small farmer, on the other its nice to see what the massive cattle dealer and bllodstock merchants are getting but over all i dont agree with it.

Im all for nudey pics of peoples ma's instead

m@cc@

I'm not sure this has been thought through. The farmer is surely entitled to some privacy in this instance. I don't see the public benefit of this only to satisfy nosyness. A breakdown of EU funding by industry would be much more productive.

Boeyenk

I can see by reading your post that you do not have a clue at all about money beign paid to the farmers.

"your tax money" <<---- Is that so? NO--->> Its the EU that pays most of the money that goes to the farmers. The real tax money in this country goes to the people that are "not able to work" (not reffering to the people that have been made redundant)

jaycen

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm not sure this has been thought through. The farmer is surely entitled to some privacy in this instance. I don't see the public benefit of this only to satisfy nosyness. A breakdown of EU funding by industry would be much more productive.

I really don't agree, after every budget we hear from the IFA about badly farmers are doing, maybe this would either shut them up or prove them right.

BTW it is your tax money, where do you think the EU get's it from???
It's public money so the public has the right to know, if they want to stey private then just stop taking the cash and earn your own, there are still a few who do.

m@cc@

jaycen wrote: »

I really don't agree, after every budget we hear from the IFA about badly farmers are doing, maybe this would either shut them up or prove them right.

BTW it is your tax money, where do you think the EU get's it from???
It's public money so the public has the right to know, if they want to stey private then just stop taking the cash and earn your own, there are still a few who do.

But how much money they get from the EU isn't going to be an accurate reflection of how well they're doing. Why would you need the statistics on individual farmers?

mikemac

Boeyenk wrote: »

I can see by reading your post that you do not have a clue at all about money beign paid to the farmers.

"your tax money" <<---- Is that so? NO--->> Its the EU that pays most of the money that goes to the farmers. The real tax money in this country goes to the people that are "not able to work" (not reffering to the people that have been made redundant)

Boeyenk
I'm from a farming background and can see exactly what was paid to our farm there.
I know exactly how payments from the EU work.

I posted "your tax money", read my post again and it was about "other benefits". So yes if you are on various benefits in Ireland, it's Irish people paying for it.
You misread one line from my post and figured I was clueless on how the EU and farming payments work. Watch what your're at before ripping my post to shreds!
Edit: Your first post, I hope you learn as you go on, welcome by the way

I was asking if people want this extended, starting a debate and all that.
My own feeling is I completly against. Small farmers don't get much at all and while it may good to see what the biggest producers in the country are getting, I see little point in publishing info on small farmers.

jaycen

m@cc@ wrote: »

But how much money they get from the EU isn't going to be an accurate reflection of how well they're doing.

If they're getting anything then they're doing better than the IFA would have the public believe.

Ziggurat

Farmers have, firmly, thrust themselves into the public sphere. Let them now deal with the consequences of that.

KTRIC

My uncle and his missus got a couple of quid for some reason

He's not short of it either !!

stevoman

I dont know why people dont like the farmers in this country. They are the true maintinee's of the countryside and if it wasnt for them maintaining that god only know what the place would look like.

Im from a town myself, but rest assued its the likes of lads from towns that are the first ones to thorw their rubbish out their car window and onto the side of the road. If it wasnt for farmers the Irsh countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

jaycen

stevoman wrote: »

I dont know why people dont like the farmers in this country. They are the true maintinee's of the countryside and if it wasnt for them maintaining that god only know what the place would look like.

Im from a town myself, but rest assued its the likes of lads from towns that are the first ones to thorw their rubbish out their car window and onto the side of the road. If it wasnt for farmers the Irsh countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

Complete crap and off topic, if it wasn't for the local council the Irish countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

The_Minister

Quinine wrote: »

Farmers have, firmly, thrust themselves into the public sphere. Let them now deal with the consequences of that.

I thought thats what the paparazzi said about actors.

not yet

I say fair play to them, evey other fu8ker in the country seems to be getting handouts so why not the farmers.

scottledeuce

Whereas I don't agree with it in principle I think that if the government is going to print how much Farmers are getting in entitlements why should the same not be done to other areas of government benefits.

It seems a bit selective that this is the only industry that should be brought under these rules.

I could see quite a stink being kicked up if some peoples social welfare allowances were put online

ejmaztec

Well, the TDs don't set a very good example, so we might as well have a big free for all - let's fill up some forms from somewhere or other.

Boeyenk

Ok, got that. Sorry.

I think you cant make an exception.

If you pay the small farmers, you also need to pay the big(ger) farmers.

They started at some point also from scratch

daveharnett

What is the benefit of publishing this information in this way. What part of the public interest would be hindered by making this info available in a way which doesn't identify individuals?

Boeyenk

Sure that EU payments need to be published, but what about the privacy act?

Nehaxak

Ahhh, the poor farmers...

Cookie_Monster

stevoman wrote: »

If it wasnt for farmers the Irsh countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

Yeah full of those horrible trees and forests and nature and wildlife...
How terrible.

/takes off sarcastic hat

Alessandra

I think they should fire ahead and publish the amount farmers get. That may show people how many farmers (especially small holdings) clearly aren't in the farming business for the money that is to be made.

tipp86

The Father got a few pounds !! Wouldnt say twud go near covering the cost of me for half the year ha!! Whats it for anyway??

ejmaztec

The Irish system seems to like putting people's information out in the public domain. Tax defaulters, debtors, insurance claimants etc - all have their names blasted all over the press.

I can never recall anything like this in the UK. If someone committed a huge tax fraud, they would have been named, but no-one else gets a mention in public.

stevoman

jaycen wrote: »

Complete crap and off topic, if it wasn't for the local council the Irish countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

:rolleyes: the local council. has anyone here actually caught them working.

though if it wasnt for YORE MA my cock wouldnt be as hard as it is!

ejmaztec

stevoman wrote: »

:rolleyes: the local council. has anyone here actually caught them working.

I saw them working once, unloading bales of brown envelopes out of the back of a truck. Strange thing was they were sweating before they started.

Gyalist

I can easily find out, if I were really interested, what my barrister neighbour makes from the Legal Aid scheme. This information has been available for years and yet I never heard the legal profession complaining about their right to privacy.

I think Ireland should do like Norway has done here. On that site you can find out exactly how much any Norwegian taxpayer has earned and how much tax he has paid.

sparksfly

Im not bothered one way or another if farmers details are published online but having dealt with them for years most of them make me sick. What I am most amazed about is just how much they have managed to get for themselves from the state and what they get away with, while the taxpayer (paye and business) get screwed. If you compare their IFA with the unions, you can see just how usless the unions (with way more members) are at looking after the members.
Farming is a private business but recieves numerous handouts from the taxpayer regardless of what is produced or how well off farmers are. They have a special low tax fuel for their machinary which they can use on public roads which is not available to anyone else. They pay no rates on farm buildings, other businesses pay all the rates. They get grants to put up slatted houses to increase their stock numbers and in turn get greater subsidies but employ very few and pay miserably. Small businesses who want to expand and maybe employ a few more have to jump through hoops to try and get financial help.
They whinge constantly about foreign food products on shop shelves, they even protested outside some Lidl shops and damaged some goods inside, yet when it comes to buying supplies themselves, they will go for the cheapest regardless if it is foreign or not, they care not one jot for other irish businesses. I worked in a farm shop and was sickened by their double standards.
As for minding the countryside, they couldnt care less-they pollute the land, groundwater and rivers with slurry, nitrogen and phosphorus as long as it promotes growth and increases profits, destroying fishing and tourism in the process. They can (and do) cover roads with muck without cleaning up after themselves. Some get payments for keeping their farms tidy (Reps payments), some keep their farms in a deplorable condition, other food producers have maintain high standards or close down.
They are the biggest buyers of foreign property using handouts from the taxpayer to pay for it. Us non-farming taxpayers are very quiet indeed.

brianthebard

KTRIC wrote: »

My uncle and his missus got a couple of quid for some reason

He's not short of it either !!

Because he has land. Golf clubs, railway companies, and the Queen of England get large payments.

Its a gross invasion of the privacy of the farmers (not the people listed above). I think its disgusting tbh. what's worse is that so many eejits still don't realise how badly off the farmers in this country are, even when the evidence is in their face.

Sparksfly, those "handouts" are for the benefit of consumers like you, (who clearly don't appreciate it) they certainly don't benefit farmers any great deal.

Schism

I hate how people can be so bitter towards farmers. Farming is a very hard business to stay afloat in these days especially if you've only got a small area of land to work. In fact were it not for EU subsidies there wouldn't be any small farmers left in the country.

I don't mind that figures are being made public but now that they are, all people see are lump sums. They don't factor in how much it takes to run a farm and attempt to make a profit.

Yes farmers can be paid for keeping their farm tidy (REPS) but the criteria to be met to gain this extra funding is quite stringent and are getting tougher each year.

It's far to easy for someone safe and secure with a salary coming in steadily to slate the farmer whose income is no way guaranteed from year to year.

AlmightyCushion

stevoman wrote: »

If it wasnt for farmers the Irsh countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

So I take it I'm the only one who wants to totally concrete over mayo and turn it into a carpark then.

towel401

stevoman wrote: »

I dont know why people dont like the farmers in this country. They are the true maintinee's of the countryside and if it wasnt for them maintaining that god only know what the place would look like.

Im from a town myself, but rest assued its the likes of lads from towns that are the first ones to thorw their rubbish out their car window and onto the side of the road. If it wasnt for farmers the Irsh countryside wouldnt be as beautiful as it is.

its just because this place is full of clueless urbanites who live in one-bedroom apartments in StillorgLan and other boring satellite towns.

these are the same people who start screaming as soon as the power goes out for a couple of seconds and call an electrician if a lightbulb needs changing or if any of their other modern conveniences stop working and gets in the way of their otherwise boring life they have to call someone and pay them money to fix it.

of course these guys hate farmers. i'd hate them too if i had to eke out a miserable existence in the concrete jungle

Nermal

Schism wrote: »

In fact were it not for EU subsidies there wouldn't be any small farmers left in the country.

So? What's the problem with that? They'd just get the dole anyway, if they're not already fiddling it.

The cost of providing transport, power, water and sewage to one-off houses in Ballynowhere should be deducted from these payments before the farmers get their hands on them.

Or alternatively, any farmer heard moaning should have his payment confiscated. They'd be worth paying if it led to silence.

the_syco

Boeyenk wrote: »

The real tax money in this country goes to the people that are "not able to work" (not reffering to the people that have been made redundant)

You talking about the disabled, or the Dubs on the Dole? The DotD should be forced into labour camps from 7am to 10am Monday to Friday.

towel401

Nermal wrote: »

So? What's the problem with that? They'd just get the dole anyway, if they're not already fiddling it.

The cost of providing transport, power, water and sewage to one-off houses in Ballynowhere should be deducted from these payments before the farmers get their hands on them.

Or alternatively, any farmer heard moaning should have his payment confiscated. They'd be worth paying if it led to silence.

they already pay for all that stuff. except most of them don't have sewage. just a septic tank - a big hole in the ground that contains the last 20 years of your ****. you probably never seen one of those. that concept alone would scare most townies into staying inside, far away from those evil barbaric culchies

brianthebard

Nermal wrote: »

So? What's the problem with that? They'd just get the dole anyway, if they're not already fiddling it.

The cost of providing transport, power, water and sewage to one-off houses in Ballynowhere should be deducted from these payments before the farmers get their hands on them.

Or alternatively, any farmer heard moaning should have his payment confiscated. They'd be worth paying if it led to silence.

Good luck paying 30 quid for a pound of round.

humbert

Prob not a good idea, what is it meant to achive. The abusers will desist from the shame, I don't think so! Probably some farmers abusing it prob some farmers need it to maintain a way of life.

More to the point, they should publish a list of those "not fit to work" for over a year say. I'd say there's much much greater abuses there.

brianthebard

Its based on how many acres/hectares you own isn't it? How the hell are farmers supposed to be abusing that? There's a record of all the land in Ireland and who owns it, how the hell do you think that can be abused??

Blush_01

Nermal wrote: »

The cost of providing transport, power, water and sewage to one-off houses in Ballynowhere should be deducted from these payments before the farmers get their hands on them.

Or alternatively, any farmer heard moaning should have his payment confiscated. They'd be worth paying if it led to silence.

You do realise that rural ESB prices, for example, are a minimum of 25% higher for the same energy consumption as urban prices? Does that not constitute paying for the provision of the service?

As for water charges, sewerage charges etc. who exactly do you think pays for them? Are you sticking your paw in your pocket every time I flush the toilet at my parents house? Because if you are I'd love to know what they're getting a water bill for each year. We have our own septic tank, which we're responsible for maintaining. What happens when your sewerage system backs up? Do you whinge down the phone at someone to fix it, or do you actually do something about it?

As for confiscating single farm payments etc. there have been issues in the past with the payments being up to 6 months late. There are numerous families who cannot survive without those payments - payments which make the milk, butter, cheese, bread, vegetables, meat and grains etc. you eat affordable. How would you feel if the employer forcing you to fill in forms before you can scratch your nose paid you 6 months late? There are huge issues with some farmers who have increasing levels of paperwork and very poor literacy levels because they left school at such a young age and there are few if any supports in place for them.

I've lived both a rural life and an urban one, and I know which one is cushier when it comes to services, facilities and opportunities. In an urban area, I can afford to be a pedestrian because there is a public transport service in place to take me from A to B. In a rural setting, I could sit and swivel for eternity if I wanted to and I'd never see a bus. Why is the farming community funding public transport for people who despise the 70+ hour weeks they have to put in before they come close to breaking even?

It works both ways. Being part of a democratic community means you pay for the "crap" you don't want so you can get the stuff you do want or need.

Alessandra

Nermal wrote: »

So? What's the problem with that? They'd just get the dole anyway, if they're not already fiddling it.

QUOTE]


You mightn't be so quick to ask that if you had any understanding of how much of the food you eat gets to your table.

*Some* people enjoy locally produced food and not food with 10,000 air miles behind it before it gets to the table.

For many, farming isn't a job so much as a way of life. Hard for many to imagine safe in the comfort of their 3 bed semi. Before any of the "wealthy farmers" get their hands on those lucrative payment schemes(such as REPS) there's plenty of paperwork and farm inspections to be carried out. This often requires the farmer to employ an accoutant to go over the numbers. Then he must make sure the land is compliant with all environmental laws and EU regulations. Not very taxing you'd imagine? General maintenance of the land etc is costly. Many farmers today work full-time and part-time to supplement their income and are often lucky to break even after the year.

I wonder with the current downturn in the economy why people aren't so quick to take up farming since the EU are willing to give them so much money for nothing?

Macha

Maybe if we actually paid a decent price for our food, the farmers wouldn't need subsidies? Is that such a crazy idea??

brianthebard

Whoa whoa tac, a fair price for a quality product? Don't be absurd!!!!

Macha

Sorry, silly me. I mean it's totally ridiculous to think that people might cut down on ryanair flights or flat screen TVs or clothes or any other amount of needless sh!te rather than spend some money on decent food.

But no, the first whiff of a recession and everyone runs screaming to Lidl for their reconstituted orange juice and 50% meat burgers...(bleurgh..)

brianthebard

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry, silly me. I mean it's totally ridiculous to think that people might cut down on ryanair flights or flat screen TVs or clothes or any other amount of needless sh!te rather than spend some money on decent food.

But no, the first whiff of a recession and everyone runs screaming to Lidl for their reconstituted orange juice and 50% meat burgers...(bleurgh..)

Marry me? What are you doing tuesday???

Macha

No ye hairy boho culchie, I don't want to live in boggy Galway!

(Plus I'm an urban socialist hypocrite - I don't actually practice what I preach! :pac:)

But thanks for the proposal

brianthebard

Roffles so many contradictions! But we could have densely thighed rural urban socialist children! Oh well it wasn't meant to be...

Macha

Jebus...you must be drunk...

brianthebard

taconnol wrote: »

Jebus...you must be drunk...

Just because I've had a bottle of wine and 4 beers doesn't mean we couldn't have genetically well adjusted sprogs...or does it?

Macha

LOL I knew it! Feeling lonely down on the ranch?

brianthebard

You have no idea. but I have lots of land to inherit you'd be swimming in eu money apparently!!!! (or not if you knew how to use the website properly, which you prolly do)

gabigeist

humbert wrote: »

More to the point, they should publish a list of those "not fit to work" for over a year say. I'd say there's much much greater abuses there.

+1

Public information on income is a good thing for farmers. If anything, they will come out of this looking well as most of the payments are tiny and would be pitied more than begrudged.