ULTIMATE CONFLICT 2

mark boyle · 29-09-2008 08:17PM #1

Just to let everyone know we're running with a new system for round times

C-class (semi-pro) 3 x 3 min rounds

B-class (pro) 3 x 4 min rounds

A-class (pro) 3 x 5 min rounds

the reasoning behind this is to make the fights more spectator friendly

UFR Management · 30-09-2008 09:08AM

We ran the same system at the last EFR and it worked very well,the shorter rounds made for more action and having three rounds as oppossed to two rounds at B and C class easier judged for the officals.

Drunkmonkey79 · 30-09-2008 09:40AM

Seems fair for judges and better action for spectators.
Win/Win

Jason Mc · 30-09-2008 09:46AM

Oddly enough Chaos Fighting Championships are doing the same thing.

The show looks great. Last one ran particularly well.

I'll see you there at the weekend.

Roper · 30-09-2008 10:02AM

After seeing it at UOC I decided to run it at my show too. Gives the C class guys a bit of experience with mutliple rounds too.

Hail 2 Da Chimp · 30-09-2008 10:41AM

Ultimate Conflict is this Saturday right...?
Short notice changing to 3 rounds a few days before the fight?

Tim_Murphy · 30-09-2008 10:42AM

well 2 round fights and 10-9 scoring is not a good mix so this is a good move.

If this talked about governing body was to happen all well and good but failing that I reckon all promoters should sit down and hammer out a unified set of rules to be used on all shows. I don't think it should be all that hard to do really. The current system of constantly moving goalposts is great craic no doubt but it can be quite confusing for fighters. Or at least me anyway. People constantly ask me questions about rules (B class in particular) and I always feel like I'm giving me what is most likely slightly out of date information.

Martin Walker · 30-09-2008 12:31PM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

If this talked about governing body was to happen all well and good but failing that I reckon all promoters should sit down and hammer out a unified set of rules to be used on all shows.

To be honest i think a unified rule set and a Pool of licensed officials is all we really need. Perhaps an all Ireland ranking system would be useful.
Ive been to lots of different promotions in the UK and Ireland over the years and ive never been to one that lacked the fundamentals ie Medics, Security, Quality Cage/Ring.
If we thrash out these things i will come away happy from the meeting.

cowzerp · 30-09-2008 01:00PM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

well 2 round fights and 10-9 scoring is not a good mix so this is a good move.

If this talked about governing body was to happen all well and good but failing that I reckon all promoters should sit down and hammer out a unified set of rules to be used on all shows

Agreed Tim.

personally, i'd vote to make this standard across the board in ireland.
rules and rounds.

Tim_Murphy · 30-09-2008 01:12PM

Perhaps an all Ireland ranking system would be useful.

I'd say it would be more hassle than it would be worth. A database with a record of all fights and fighters, as I said on fighttalk, would be useful. It would take a bit of work to design and implement, plus you'd need somebody to keep it updated but I'm sure there'd be some volunteers to do that.

But standard rules are all that is really needed and that doesn't take a governing body as such. Having licensed officials would be great and all, but I honestly can't see it happening for the time being at least.

David Jones · 30-09-2008 01:22PM

Having licensed officials would be great and all, but I honestly can't see it happening for the time being at least.

Licensed by whom and to what end?
I actually think the standard of refereeing is pretty good

Tim_Murphy · 30-09-2008 01:28PM

David Jones wrote: »

Licensed by whom and to what end?
I actually think the standard of refereeing is pretty good

Indeed it is!

I just think it would be a good idea that before any new ref's got into the cage they did a bit of training for the job with somebody like yourself or Aidan Marron. It's not essential but it would probably improve the standard of new refs coming on board.

Clive · 30-09-2008 01:34PM

I think I may be alone in liking things as they are!

The more little rule differences the better I say. Some shows have elbows, some have heel hooks - there's something for everyone!

Raze_them_all · 30-09-2008 02:00PM

Clive wrote: »

I think I may be alone in liking things as they are!

The more little rule differences the better I say. Some shows have elbows, some have heel hooks - there's something for everyone!

It can be confusing for fighters though.
Some shows allow standing elbows in b class, some dont. Very easy to forget in the heat of the moment

David Jones · 30-09-2008 02:06PM

It can be confusing for fighters though.
Some shows allow standing elbows in b class, some dont. Very easy to forget in the heat of the moment

Totally agree. Personally I think we should just adopt UFC rules for A class and be done with all the other variations. For B class take out elbows on the ground and heel hooks and for C class take out striking to head on ground and heel hooks with everything else being common. Bloody easier to ref too!

Judomad · 30-09-2008 02:13PM

David Jones wrote: »

Totally agree. Personally I think we should just adopt UFC rules for A class and be done with all the other variations. For B class take out elbows on the ground and heel hooks and for C class take out striking to head on ground and heel hooks with everything else being common. Bloody easier to ref too!

dave has it spot on here, it makes the most sense to be honest, allow elbows on the ground and heel hooks in A, and take them out for B.

Roper · 30-09-2008 02:33PM

I think the main problem with heel hooks is the potential for injury. With a heel hook, sometimes the damage is done long before the tap and it's very easy for someone to pretty much destroy their knee for keeps if they roll out badly. Now you might say that thems the breaks cos you got in to fight A and agreed to the rules but even though people will make that choice, there's nobody I know fighting A who could afford to be out of their job for 6 weeks along with surgery and physio costs.

For me it comes back to a cost/benefit thing. Does the benefit of allowing heel hooks outweigh the potential costs? Not really in my opinion.

As for rules differences, I think that could be ironed out pretty easily with a bit of a chat. After all fighters should know well in advance what times they're fighting, knees/elbows to the head etc. I think the real differences are at B class anyway. I don't see a problem with promoters picking the rules below A class so long as everyone agrees on some broad ones like no head shots in C.

cowzerp · 30-09-2008 02:54PM

Roper wrote: »

I think the main problem with heel hooks is the potential for injury. With a heel hook, sometimes the damage is done long before the tap and it's very easy for someone to pretty much destroy their knee for keeps if they roll out badly. Now you might say that thems the breaks cos you got in to fight A and agreed to the rules but even though people will make that choice, there's nobody I know fighting A who could afford to be out of their job for 6 weeks along with surgery and physio costs.

For me it comes back to a cost/benefit thing. Does the benefit of allowing heel hooks outweigh the potential costs? Not really in my opinion.

I agree, heal hooks are so dangerous and no 1 in the mma in ireland is earning money from mma where they could afford to be out of work for 6 weeks plus up to potentially 6 months depending on the job.

Raze_them_all · 30-09-2008 02:56PM

I dont think this has been mentioned yet... But weight classes....there should be the same weight classes across the board. some organisations have different weight classes to others, e.g. some are 65.8 while others are 65.

weemate · 30-09-2008 03:10PM

Personally I hate heel hooks,they can finish a career.I wont even have them in the gym.As a ref,they go on too fast to be stopped during a fight,hence why if Im taking charge of a show I ask the promoter to leave them out of the rules.

weemate · 30-09-2008 03:11PM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Indeed it is!

I just think it would be a good idea that before any new ref's got into the cage they did a bit of training for the job with somebody like yourself or Aidan Marron. It's not essential but it would probably improve the standard of new refs coming on board.

AHEM..............:mad:

Roper · 30-09-2008 03:27PM

weemate wrote: »

AHEM..............:mad:

Yes I agree Peter, you should train with Dave or Aidan :pac::D

weemate · 30-09-2008 03:29PM

yeah.........I asked for that!!!

Martin Walker · 30-09-2008 03:57PM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I dont think this has been mentioned yet... But weight classes....there should be the same weight classes across the board. some organisations have different weight classes to others, e.g. some are 65.8 while others are 65.

Never thought of that you know. I agree.

When i said "licensed" before what i mean is we need a group of people that are recognized as quality Officials.
I dont have a problem with the standard of Officials in the country at the minute as i think they are all neutral and impartial. However as the sport grows and more Promotions start more Refs and Judges will be needed. What happens if there is a Show in Belfast a show in Antrim and a show in Dublin on the same weekend?

bilbo79 · 30-09-2008 04:09PM

I'd say the standard of reffing is actually quite poor tbh, on 1 show efr you can elbow from your back at a 6-12 angle, then using efr rules on another show that is not allowed by officials! they simply dont understand the rules.

i've also seen refs stop fights when submissions are clearly not on, and letting people away with illegal moves or restarting fighters in wrong positions after restarts, aidan is a good ref but out of most the others i know i would not think there that great, there just appreciated because they are willing to do it. A training course for refs should be made and arranged by all the orgs to send 2-3 each to it. otherwise stupid arguments like is 2 points in contact with the ground etc.. will always be there.

Raze_them_all · 30-09-2008 04:19PM

bilbo79 wrote: »

I'd say the standard of reffing is actually quite poor tbh, on 1 show efr you can elbow from your back at a 6-12 angle, then using efr rules on another show that is not allowed by officials! they simply dont understand the rules.

This is a legal move actually. I used it in my last fight in Tribal Warfare. The 6-12 motion is from mount. You can do it from your back as it's not the same motion. Most organisations allow this AFAIK

Tim_Murphy · 30-09-2008 04:19PM

weemate wrote: »

AHEM..............:mad:

:pac:

I'd say the standard of reffing is actually quite poor tbh, on 1 show efr you can elbow from your back at a 6-12 angle, then using efr rules on another show that is not allowed by officials! they simply dont understand the rules.

i've also seen refs stop fights when submissions are clearly not on, and letting people away with illegal moves or restarting fighters in wrong positions after restarts, aidan is a good ref but out of most the others i know i would not think there that great, there just appreciated because they are willing to do it. A training course for refs should be made and arranged by all the orgs to send 2-3 each to it. otherwise stupid arguments like is 2 points in contact with the ground etc.. will always be there.

In general, of the fights I've seen, I would say the standard is decent enough. But then I'm not at most shows.
Mistakes will always be made, its just a matter of trying to minimise them, and I think unified rules and ref courses would be a big help with that.

bilbo79 · 30-09-2008 04:43PM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

This is a legal move actually. I used it in my last fight in Tribal Warfare. The 6-12 motion is from mount. You can do it from your back as it's not the same motion. Most organisations allow this AFAIK

Thats my point.

on tribal warfare it was not allowed as a 6 to 12 yet on efr,the elbow from below was not a 6-12 is, but just the same as the 1 allowed from mount but in reverse used in tribal warfare, even though they where the same rules been used it was not allowed, the officials where making the rules as they went or else where misunderstanding them.

Clive · 01-10-2008 01:44PM

I propose an A+ class with heel hooks and elbows included

Tim_Murphy · 01-10-2008 02:37PM

Clive wrote: »

I propose an A+ class with heel hooks and elbows included

Well proper A class rules already have elbows so A+ should surely have knees to the head on the ground! :cool:

Roper · 01-10-2008 03:13PM

I say A++ with stomps and soccer kicks.

ULTIMATE CONFLICT 2

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