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ULTIMATE CONFLICT 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Martin Walker


    Roper wrote: »
    I say A++ with stomps and soccer kicks. :D


    2nd`d

    Vale Tudo Rules all round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭David Jones


    on tribal warfare it was not allowed as a 6 to 12 yet on efr,the elbow from below was not a 6-12 is, but just the same as the 1 allowed from mount but in reverse used in tribal warfare, even though they where the same rules been used it was not allowed, the officials where making the rules as they went or else where misunderstanding them.

    Well if you have been to any shows I have reffed, I dont allow 12 - 6 elbows to the head at all. Illegal from mount, and too easy to infringe on the no strikes to the back of the head rule when your opp is in your guard (usually with his head buried in your chest) I do allow them to the legs of your opp when you are in his guard and also to his shoulder or collarbone when he is in yours. Hope that clarifies my ruling on it, and Im not making it up... :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭mark.leonard


    Could we be any more off topic? :)

    We'll never have unified rules for all promotions, its a nice idea, but without incentive, why would one promoter use a rule set he isn't fully happy with, just for the sake of it?
    Should I dis-allow elbows to the head on the ground because John does and then we'll be the same? Just an example but hopefully you will see my point.

    6-12 is an elbow uppercut, so I am pretty sure any show allowing elbows allows that.
    12-6 or a downward point of elbow strike is not allowed on TW or EFR, though I think the UFC is going to allow them in future, just not to the back of the head.

    If you are lying on your back elbowing your partner to the top of the head your elbow travels from 3-9 and is not subject to the 12-6 rule by my reckoning.

    That being said Dave has been TW chief official for the last two shows and what he says goes.

    bilbo79, I am trying to figure out whether you are trolling or just airing genuine dissenting views.
    Lets assume the latter (though I risk feeding you if you are a troll, I'll just have to chance it).
    Do you train or are you just a spectator? Have you fought?
    You suggest that the TW officials were making up the rules as they went or were misunderstanding them. Either aspersion offends me, I would suggest that you didn't understand the rules as they were explained to you, in which case why didn't you ask further questions?
    There was some confusion during the rules meeting as at TW C Class allows knees to the head standing, which is not a standard ruling. Dave began to explain C class the usual way and we reminded him of the change and he explained it again for TW. The only fighters involved in that match up were clear about the rule set, as was the referee, so I don't see what concerns you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭weemate


    Every show I have been at either as an official or coach [ usually both!! ] the rules are explained fully at the fighters meeting.If the promoter has any alterations they are discussed then.In fact they are discussed with the refs and judges before the fighters meeting so that everyone is on the same page.
    Some promotions allow elbows,some dont,some allow heel hooks,some dont.All the officials are clear on which do and dont.
    I can understand confusion by spectators who attend all the shows and see fights being stopped for things that are legal on a different event.That is why there will be hopefully a unified set of rules in place for all Irish mma shows in the future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭mark.leonard


    weemate wrote: »
    I can understand confusion by spectators who attend all the shows and see fights being stopped for things that are legal on a different event.That is why there will be hopefully a unified set of rules in place for all Irish mma shows in the future.

    Interesting point Peter, though I wonder how many spectators who aren't fighters attend more than one show, possibly in NI where they are springing up so fast, but down here it is much less of a concern.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭bilbo79


    Could we be any more off topic? :)

    We'll never have unified rules for all promotions, its a nice idea, but without incentive, why would one promoter use a rule set he isn't fully happy with, just for the sake of it?
    Should I dis-allow elbows to the head on the ground because John does and then we'll be the same? Just an example but hopefully you will see my point.

    6-12 is an elbow uppercut, so I am pretty sure any show allowing elbows allows that.
    12-6 or a downward point of elbow strike is not allowed on TW or EFR, though I think the UFC is going to allow them in future, just not to the back of the head.

    If you are lying on your back elbowing your partner to the top of the head your elbow travels from 3-9 and is not subject to the 12-6 rule by my reckoning.

    That being said Dave has been TW chief official for the last two shows and what he says goes.

    bilbo79, I am trying to figure out whether you are trolling or just airing genuine dissenting views.
    Lets assume the latter (though I risk feeding you if you are a troll, I'll just have to chance it).
    Do you train or are you just a spectator? Have you fought?
    You suggest that the TW officials were making up the rules as they went or were misunderstanding them. Either aspersion offends me, I would suggest that you didn't understand the rules as they were explained to you, in which case why didn't you ask further questions?
    There was some confusion during the rules meeting as at TW C Class allows knees to the head standing, which is not a standard ruling. Dave began to explain C class the usual way and we reminded him of the change and he explained it again for TW. The only fighters involved in that match up were clear about the rule set, as was the referee, so I don't see what concerns you.
    I just train but dont fight, i love it but not enough to get bashed-i was only a spectator but was explained the rules, i was also told they use efr rules which i know well: and they allow 6-12 elbows from your back, i thought maybe i took it up wrong but now dave has confirmed what i was told: he does not allow it, i thought ref's jobs where to enforce the rules and not to adjust them to his preferances, again maybe i'm wrong and you do not use efr rules, no biggy anyway, i just thought there was some mistake. Either way is fine once its clear. Show was great though. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭David Jones


    Sorry have adjusted my typo in my previous post, that should have read 12-6 elbows (Downward spike). 6 - 12 is indeed effectively an elbow upper cut unlikely to hit the back of the head and therefore perfectly legal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Sorry have adjusted my typo in my previous post, that should have read 12-6 elbows (Downward spike). 6 - 12 is indeed effectively an elbow upper cut unlikely to hit the back of the head and therefore perfectly legal.

    Dave the likely hood of it hitting the back of the head is irrelevant, its illegal to hit the back of the head with any move so if they use it and hit the back then punish them for it, its the fighters job to fight and the refs job to keep it within the rules.

    punching is the most likely way of hitting the back of the head and we certainly wont ban punching!

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭bilbo79


    Sorry have adjusted my typo in my previous post, that should have read 12-6 elbows (Downward spike). 6 - 12 is indeed effectively an elbow upper cut unlikely to hit the back of the head and therefore perfectly legal.
    O.k fair enough, easy mistake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭weemate


    In the North Mark,because it is usually myself or Aidan in charge of the event we try to use a common set of rules but there has been on occasion times [ usually the first show ] where the promoter has a different idea.For example the first Ultimate conflict allowed heel hooks.....that wont be the case this time.Cage Rage and ring of truth shows dont allow elbows which can be confusing for fighters coming down who have only fought on Northern shows.In saying that,the rules are fully explained as you know at the fighters meetings.Also the fighters and coaches will know when the fight is accepted what rules they are under as most promotions have a website where the rules are posted for all to see.Ultimate conflict and Chaos are among the promotions that submitted their rules to myself and Adian to have a look at before the event so we are up to speed.It's not a bad idea to be honest.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭David Jones


    Dave the likely hood of it hitting the back of the head is irrelevant, its illegal to hit the back of the head with any move so if they use it and hit the back then punish them for it.

    Not sure what you are getting at because if the 12 - 6 is used in any position for head contact its a foul. My point is that 12 - 6 is illegal regardless but if used when opponent is in your guard with his head low, in all likeliehood it will be the back of the head it contacts, so therefore illegal on two counts.

    The 6 - 12 is unlikely to ever contact the back of the head, possibly why it is left as a legal strike from that position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Not sure what you are getting at because if the 12 - 6 is used in any position for head contact its a foul. My point is that 12 - 6 is illegal regardless but if used when opponent is in your guard with his head low, in all likeliehood it will be the back of the head it contacts, so therefore illegal on two counts.

    The 6 - 12 is unlikely to ever contact the back of the head, possibly why it is left as a legal strike from that position.


    I dont believe thats why the 12-6 elbow is illegal, its just because its a spike and with the power of gravity right behind it the impact potentially is huge, thats my take on it, anyway i was refering to from bottom, i dont think the head affects the law tbh. Back of the head strikes are illegal, end of.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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