The unions..fed up listening?

Clytus · 20-09-2008 12:38PM #1

Now..I didnt quite catch the whole story on the radio, but i heard something along the lines that a number of shop stewards within the Unions are planning on rejecting the pay agreement reached by the social partners.They want a pay rise now and higher than the rates agreed.

I employ 26 people and theres not a whiff of unions within our company so im not obliged under any pay agreements..BUT if I was Im certain that if i was forced to pay a cent more than I am now id be making redundencies.

Im in no position to look for price increases..despite increased overheads which we all know about (i.e gas, elec, commods.) We make modest profits..but are all ploughed back into the company in an effort to drive it forward and to expand. Anyone who has ever asked me for a raise, no matter how long they have been with us, always gets the same blunt answer..and thats I will pay an extra €1 p/h so long as they generate/save €2.

Did anyone notice who were the loudest during the pay talks??...the Unions within the ESB!!!...the same company that has an average salary of €90,000 per employee.
And did anyone notice that not once was there referance made to the level of the minimum wage in this country?? Nope...

Rant over...but it just gets to me how blind and ignorant the Unions are.

Maybe they should have listened to George Lee when he expressed his view that people in Ireland should be grateful they have a job in the first place.

AARRRGH · 20-09-2008 01:04PM

Unions want to destroy this country. It makes me sad how selfish some people are.

gandalf · 20-09-2008 01:31PM

Well I am of the opinion that we need a government brave enough to crush the semi-state and public sector unions. TBH it should be the Labour party because the actual workers of this state ie those PAYE workers in the private sector are subsidising an extremely inefficient and overbloated public sector. These days there should be no job for life for anyone.

CSC · 20-09-2008 01:52PM

While I am not a member of a Union nor do I work for the public service I really do believe they are becoming scapegoats for this economic crisis.

Tom Dunne · 20-09-2008 02:53PM

CSC wrote: »

While I am not a member of a Union nor do I work for the public service I really do believe they are becoming scapegoats for this economic crisis.

How are they becoming scapegoats? For supporting a bloated, inefficient Public Sector, with not a shred of accountability? Where gross incompetence seems to be the order of the day and nobody is held to responsible for it?

And I am speaking as an ex-Public Sector worker.

Clytus · 20-09-2008 03:37PM

Right..caught more of the story on the 3 o clock news bulletin.
The guy speaking declared that it "shouldnt be the working mans problem that there is a recession"...but it gets even better....."I dont buy into this idea that wage increases drives inflation"...obviously a man who has never heard of the term second round effect....then he went on to say that "wage inflation has an effect on the CPI is a story made up by economists and the likes!"

Now...does anyone wanna have a guess at what this man does for a living that gives himsuch profound insights into economics and industrial relations that rubbish the economists theories???.........well he is a BUS DRIVER!!!!

Shane Ross made a very good point last night...900 quangos...what the hell does this country need 900 quangos for?

As for the civil service....well the clincher for me was the story Terry Prone was telling on Radio a while back regarding the levels of sick leave in the Civil service...and the primary reason for illness...STRESS!! She went on to explain how the Dept. of Social welafre was offering counseling to people who felt they needed it in the Dept. Well over 50% headed off for the sessions.

luckyboy · 20-09-2008 04:09PM

Clytus wrote: »

regarding the levels of sick leave in the Civil service...

Just in the interests of balance, I personally felt the need to register here to give the other side of the story ...

I have been a civil servant since 2005 and have never once had a sick day in that time. By the same token, my wife is a civil servant almost as long and has only had one sick day (and that was whilst pregnant when she was literally puking up repeatedly and had to turn back home after starting her 60-mile commute (round trip 120 miles)

Not all civil servants are out sick a lot you know, so don't be so quick to tar us all with the same brush please ...

ixoy · 20-09-2008 04:52PM

I over-heard a civil servant wanting to reject the pay deal on grounds such as being forced to meet these things called "targets" for pay increaes, which he believed the private sector never had to meet... He's probably worried because it'll be impossible for him to meet a target seeing as how I've never seen him do an iota of work other than complaining about his work.

He's also one of the strongest union men in the place and it's the likes of him that makes me loathe some unions rather than all the people they represent - wanting more money for doing zilch.

tunney · 20-09-2008 05:20PM

luckyboy wrote: »

Just in the interests of balance, I personally felt the need to register here to give the other side of the story ...

I have been a civil servant since 2005 and have never once had a sick day in that time. By the same token, my wife is a civil servant almost as long and has only had one sick day (and that was whilst pregnant when she was literally puking up repeatedly and had to turn back home after starting her 60-mile commute (round trip 120 miles)

Not all civil servants are out sick a lot you know, so don't be so quick to tar us all with the same brush please ...

I don't think people's issues with the civil service are over sick days. More likely to be the perception of overstaffing, not being performance oriented and a suggestion that civil servants may not be the hardest workers.

pearcider · 20-09-2008 05:31PM

Wow there's a lot of sour grapes/right wing lunacy in this thread. Everybody knows the current economic woes are due to a lack of regulation in the international finance system as well as the collapse of the housing market and the rising cost of energy. The public sector is the usual scapegoat whereas the true blame lies with the corrupt corporate finance sector, the opportunist traders, the selfish and short sighted construction industry and the elected governments that should have been regulating all this. To suggest that the civil servants who merely administrate the state are to blame is a frankly laughable accusation. If you must blame someone blame the CEO's who are walking away from this with hundreds of millions in redundancy packages not the ESB engineer earning 80 grand nor our teachers, nurses, gardai, bus drivers and other public servants who do excellent work for relatively low pay and are fully entitled to be unionized.

damnyanks · 20-09-2008 06:05PM

Anyone who screwed up got fired. I've never heard of anyone **** in the civil service being fired. I've heard of them being asked to retire early (which the tax payers pay for)

pearcider · 20-09-2008 07:09PM

Anyone who screwed up got fired. I've never heard of anyone **** in the civil service being fired. I've heard of them being asked to retire early (which the tax payers pay for)

You're going to have to present more than anecdotal evidence my friend. Chances are you've heard practically nothing. And lets see what happen to the CEO's who've got fired recently.

In 2007, Alan Schwartz, the last CEO of Bear Stearns earned cash compensation of $35,734,422, which included a $16,237,150 bonus.

Robert B. Willumstad is the outgoing CEO of AIG and will receive c 7 million for his 3 month tenure - during which the stock price fell 97%.

Richard Severin Fuld, Jr. is the final CEO of Lehman Bros...he received a $22 million bonus for 2007.

Granted these are American examples but it's a similar model operating in Ireland with even more excessive levels of corporate greed on display.

Clytus · 20-09-2008 07:42PM

pearcider wrote: »

Wow there's a lot of sour grapes/right wing lunacy in this thread. Everybody knows the current economic woes are due to a lack of regulation in the international finance system as well as the collapse of the housing market and the rising cost of energy. The public sector is the usual scapegoat whereas the true blame lies with the corrupt corporate finance sector, the opportunist traders, the selfish and short sighted construction industry and the elected governments that should have been regulating all this. To suggest that the civil servants who merely administrate the state are to blame is a frankly laughable accusation. If you must blame someone blame the CEO's who are walking away from this with hundreds of millions in redundancy packages not the ESB engineer earning 80 grand nor our teachers, nurses, gardai, bus drivers and other public servants who do excellent work for relatively low pay and are fully entitled to be unionized.

Sour grapes?????...NO!!!...its plain frustration. The average salary within the Civil service is €49,000 in March of this year...so its quids in compared to the average industrial wage of €38,000. Now...this is difficult, but a % value of a Civil servants salary has to be added to value the security of tenure they have...and given the current economic climate..id probably say it should be in or around 10-20%.
Now given all that...to then have to listen to the likes of our friend the bus driver declare that the recession has nothing to do with them and that should get an immediate pay rise greater than 6% is just serves to irate the likes of me.

From January to July, the Exchequer deficit rose to €6.7 billion,...Goverment spending rose by 11%.
The State is screwed for cash....yet the Unions were demanding higher pay!?!
Ill refer you back to my OP where I described the conditions required before I give a pay rise...

One good thing that will come of the recession, I hope, is that the People of this country will wake up to the incredible malaise within the administration.

Clytus · 20-09-2008 07:52PM

pearcider wrote: »

You're going to have to present more than anecdotal evidence my friend. Chances are you've heard practically nothing. And lets see what happen to the CEO's who've got fired recently.

In 2007, Alan Schwartz, the last CEO of Bear Stearns earned cash compensation of $35,734,422, which included a $16,237,150 bonus.

Robert B. Willumstad is the outgoing CEO of AIG and will receive c 7 million for his 3 month tenure - during which the stock price fell 97%.

Richard Severin Fuld, Jr. is the final CEO of Lehman Bros...he received a $22 million bonus for 2007.

Granted these are American examples but it's a similar model operating in Ireland with even more excessive levels of corporate greed on display.

jeeze...you wouldnt happen to be a member of that lunatic fringe union amicus would ya??

AARRRGH · 20-09-2008 07:53PM

pearcider wrote: »

If you must blame someone blame the CEO's who are walking away from this with hundreds of millions in redundancy packages not the ESB engineer earning 80 grand nor our teachers, nurses, gardai, bus drivers and other public servants who do excellent work for relatively low pay and are fully entitled to be unionized.

You're completely missing the point.

1. Our tax money does not pay a CEO's wage so I couldn't give a fiddle what a private company wants to pay its CEO. Also, you cannot compare a CEO to a civil servant worker - apples and oranges.
2. Civil service workers earn a lot more than a non-civil service worker. Look up the average industrial wage in Ireland and you will see this.
3. Our issue is that our economy is screwed yet the civil service are being their usual greedy selves. They don't give a damn about anyone or anything but themselves.

Note I worked as an outside contractor in the civil service. Biggest bunch of wasters I've ever met.

pearcider · 20-09-2008 09:33PM

You're completely missing the point.

1. Our tax money does not pay a CEO's wage so I couldn't give a fiddle what a private company wants to pay its CEO. Also, you cannot compare a CEO to a civil servant worker - apples and oranges.
2. Civil service workers earn a lot more than a non-civil service worker. Look up the average industrial wage in Ireland and you will see this.
3. Our issue is that our economy is screwed yet the civil service are being their usual greedy selves. They don't give a damn about anyone or anything but themselves.

Note I worked as an outside contractor in the civil service. Biggest bunch of wasters I've ever met.

1. Our tax money pays for everything that enables a company to conduct business in the first place and recent events have shown our tax money will bail out the big companies if they require it. Lets not forget other debacles where the taxpayer inevitably foots the bill eg Eircom privitisation, railway privitisation in the UK, Esat Digifone scandal where Mr Denis O'Brien was able to make off with 300 million of money (the ISDN infratructure without which the GSM license is worthless was built by the state), etc. We have very generous tax rates in this country in the first place and the basic reason for the deficit is that we're not paying enough tax to fund our essential National Development Plan. It only take a weekend in Frankfurt or Madrid to see we're light years behind the europeans in terms of infrastructure. Who's gonna fund it? Mr MacNamara, Mr O'Reilly and co? Don't be a muppet. Open your eyes. The people screwing this country are the rich business men and their political backers.

2. I would contend that the average is more because the civil service wage structure is more equitable than in the private sector where the top managers are paid extortionate wages and the lower workers are left to get by on minimum wage. This is partly because of the anti union policies of most corporations leaving very little bargaining power in the hands of workers.

3. It's quite evident that our economy is not being screwed up by the civil service but rather by the vested interests I mentioned earlier. For example a large portion of the pressure placed on the world economy is being driven by high and unstable energy prices. Who do we blame about that? The Civil Service? Or what about companies like Shell (Profits 2007: 33 billion) and ExxonMobil (Profits 2007: 40 Billion) and wealthy speculators in the commodity markets? Why should the CS not pursue a very reasonable salary increase in line with inflation? It's their right. If anyone is being screwed here, it's the average joe on the average industrial wage being screwed by his greedy company headed by a greedy board of directors/CEO's and shareholders.

Your last point is a total generalization.

Tom Dunne · 20-09-2008 09:41PM

pearcider wrote: »

You're going to have to present more than anecdotal evidence my friend. Chances are you've heard practically nothing. And lets see what happen to the CEO's who've got fired recently.

In 2007, Alan Schwartz, the last CEO of Bear Stearns earned cash compensation of $35,734,422, which included a $16,237,150 bonus.

Robert B. Willumstad is the outgoing CEO of AIG and will receive c 7 million for his 3 month tenure - during which the stock price fell 97%.

Richard Severin Fuld, Jr. is the final CEO of Lehman Bros...he received a $22 million bonus for 2007.

Granted these are American examples but it's a similar model operating in Ireland with even more excessive levels of corporate greed on display.

Seriously, what in God's name have massive American corporations got to do with Ireland? There is no comparison. Though when you are on the defensive, big numbers help.

Nobody is blaming the Public Sector, personally, I am finding it hard to accept Public Sector pay demands when the rest of the economy is grinding to a halt. I expect to be told there is no payrise in my next review. Am I going to go on strike and hold the country to ransom? No, I am going to suck it up and get on with it, lest I get fired. No chance of that happening in the Civil Service/Public Sector.

I accept tarring all Public Sector workers with the one brush is unfair, but having both worked there and having clients currently in the Public Sector, I have first hand experience of the gross incompetence, waste and general laid-back attitude that would get people fired in the Real World.

A dose of realism is what is needed, not a pay rise.

pearcider · 20-09-2008 10:06PM

Seriously, what in God's name have massive American corporations got to do with Ireland? There is no comparison. Though when you are on the defensive, big numbers help.

US subsidiaries operating in Ireland employ in excess of 100,000 people and generate 30 billion odd in exports and our economic policy is closely modeled on the US. Boston not Berlin my friend.

Nobody is blaming the Public Sector, personally, I am finding it hard to accept Public Sector pay demands when the rest of the economy is grinding to a halt. I expect to be told there is no payrise in my next review. Am I going to go on strike and hold the country to ransom? No, I am going to suck it up and get on with it, lest I get fired. No chance of that happening in the Civil Service/Public Sector.

Well, I came here to defend the CS from accusations that it's perceived inefficiency was the reason for the economic downturn. Which is total nonsense. The rest of your point just confirms it's sour grapes.

I accept tarring all Public Sector workers with the one brush is unfair, but having both worked there and having clients currently in the Public Sector, I have first hand experience of the gross incompetence, waste and general laid-back attitude that would get people fired in the Real World.

You can't compare the CS and the so called (I assume you mean corporate world) "Real World". They operate on different principles. One serves the people, the other serves the shareholders.

Clytus · 20-09-2008 10:20PM

pearcider wrote: »

1. Our tax money pays for everything that enables a company to conduct business in the first place and recent events have shown our tax money will bail out the big companies if they require it. Lets not forget other debacles where the taxpayer inevitably foots the bill eg Eircom privitisation, railway privitisation in the UK, Esat Digifone scandal where Mr Denis O'Brien was able to make off with 300 million of money (the ISDN infratructure without which the GSM license is worthless was built by the state), etc. We have very generous tax rates in this country in the first place and the basic reason for the deficit is that we're not paying enough tax to fund our essential National Development Plan. It only take a weekend in Frankfurt or Madrid to see we're light years behind the europeans in terms of infrastructure. Who's gonna fund it? Mr MacNamara, Mr O'Reilly and co? Don't be a muppet. Open your eyes. The people screwing this country are the rich business men and their political backers.

2. I would contend that the average is more because the civil service wage structure is more equitable than in the private sector where the top managers are paid extortionate wages and the lower workers are left to get by on minimum wage. This is partly because of the anti union policies of most corporations leaving very little bargaining power in the hands of workers.

3. It's quite evident that our economy is not being screwed up by the civil service but rather by the vested interests I mentioned earlier. For example a large portion of the pressure placed on the world economy is being driven by high and unstable energy prices. Who do we blame about that? The Civil Service? Or what about companies like Shell (Profits 2007: 33 billion) and ExxonMobil (Profits 2007: 40 Billion) and wealthy speculators in the commodity markets? Why should the CS not pursue a very reasonable salary increase in line with inflation? It's their right. If anyone is being screwed here, it's the average joe on the average industrial wage being screwed by his greedy company headed by a greedy board of directors/CEO's and shareholders.

Your last point is a total generalization.

Right... Im flabergasted. Pear...you seem like an intelligent chap, but your posts amaze me by their Trotskyite tones.
one of the main driving forces behind this countrys economic succes has been the FDI..with the likes of Intel, Hewlett Packard, Microsoft, Wyeth....all attracted and retained by the generous tax breaks afforeded them..in return they have created jobs..thousands and thousands of them...and all going towards paying in some part your salary.Increasing Corparation tax will drive away FDI given the huge costs in Human Capital in this country.
The countrys budget deficit has nothing to do with us not paying enough Tax..although direct taxation is relativly low, indirect taxation if included is actually quite high (example VRT, Excise Duty)...its to do with the runaway increases in Public spending...and the sooner the C.S wakes up to that the better.

I would contend that the average is more because the civil service wage structure is more equitable than in the private sector where the top managers are paid extortionate wages and the lower workers are left to get by on minimum wage. This is partly because of the anti union policies of most corporations leaving very little bargaining power in the hands of workers.

Right lets take examples of the countries top CEOs. Their renumeration is in direct relation to PREFORMANCE. These guys are paid to hit targets, they are responsible for turnovers and profits in the billions...they are answerable to the shareholders and could get the bullet in a moments notice.
First example Brian Goggin of BOI in 2007 earned €3.998 million but in 2008 earned €2.97 million.

Eugene Sheehy in 2006 earned €2.436 million and in 2007 earned €2.105 million.

As regard anti union policies...please show us examples...

Right i think Im gonna stop here after re-reading the end of your last post. Its total crap....you live in some sort of CS fairytale bubble.

Your posting just go to prove how out of touch with reality the CS actually is.

can I ask you one thing...if you worked in the private sector and the company you worked for was sverly in the red...would you you push for a pay raise??

Tom Dunne · 20-09-2008 10:39PM

pearcider wrote: »

You can't compare the CS and the so called (I assume you mean corporate world) "Real World". They operate on different principles. One serves the people, the other serves the shareholders.

Correction - one is supposed to serve the people. In reality they serve nobody but themselves.

ixoy · 20-09-2008 11:59PM

I would contend that the average is more because the civil service wage structure is more equitable than in the private sector where the top managers are paid extortionate wages and the lower workers are left to get by on minimum wage.

So you're admitting that the mean salary of a public sector worker is better than a private sector? Grand, no need for a pay rise then.

AARRRGH · 21-09-2008 11:24AM

pearcider wrote: »

1. Our tax money pays for everything that enables a company to conduct business in the first place and recent events have shown our tax money will bail out the big companies if they require it.

Could you give me an example of this?

Or are you talking about the US government?

I do not see how your point has anything to do with a private company paying a CEO a fortune and our tax money paying (let's be honest) a number of uneducated, lazy public service workers an above average wage.

If you don't believe me many public service workers are uneducated, do a search on this forum. Some of them only have their Junior Cert yet expect big money. How deluded.

pearcider wrote: »

2. I would contend that the average is more because the civil service wage structure is more equitable than in the private sector where the top managers are paid extortionate wages and the lower workers are left to get by on minimum wage.

The top guys in the public service don't earn big money? Give me a break...

pearcider wrote: »

3. It's quite evident that our economy is not being screwed up by the civil service but rather by the vested interests I mentioned earlier. Etc.

You're still missing the point.

The Government is broke yet you are demanding large wage increases. If you cannot see how this is wrong, you are utterly selfish.

EDIT: If you worked for a private company and they had no money, would you still be demanding a raise? Of course not, you'd go get a job somewhere else.

CSC · 21-09-2008 12:31PM

The Government is broke yet you are demanding large wage increases. If you cannot see how this is wrong, you are utterly selfish.

EDIT: If you worked for a private company and they had no money, would you still be demanding a raise? Of course not, you'd go get a job somewhere else.[/quote]

It has to be remembered that the government gave themselves a pay raise recently also. Hardly leading by example.

AARRRGH · 21-09-2008 12:38PM

CSC wrote: »

It has to be remembered that the government gave themselves a pay raise recently also. Hardly leading by example.

There are lots of ****ed people who take and take in this world, but I choose not to be like them. That's how a civilised person should think.

CSC · 21-09-2008 12:44PM

I agree, but I do find it hard to listen to government TDs (like McGuinness) slating the Civil Service when I know how much they are creaming off the state.

Cork · 21-09-2008 01:33PM

Mr. McGuinness is 100% correct. It is a pity that he did not get more support for his comments from fellow TDs and the taxpayer.

I have worked in both the private sector and public sector. The public sector is inefficent. This inefficency has been there for years. Workers in that office knew no better. Apart from some IPA courses - no-one in the office was qualified for any task. Reading magazines, newspapers, texting, phonecalls, texting, massive tea and lunch breaks etc was common.

We had a situation recently - where private sector bus companies were forced out of business because of poor state regulation.

It will not surprise me - if public sector unions vote this agreement down.

Many don't gives 2 wits about the economy or taxpayer.

Tom Dunne · 21-09-2008 01:33PM

CSC wrote: »

It has to be remembered that the government gave themselves a pay raise recently also. Hardly leading by example.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

CSC wrote: »

I agree, but I do find it hard to listen to government TDs (like McGuinness) slating the Civil Service when I know how much they are creaming off the state.

They are hardly "creaming". They are elected representatives, blame the fools who put them into government.

I am still failing to hear of anyone from the CS/PS justifying why they should get pay rises in the current economic climate. All I am hearing is finger pointing and delusional comparisons with mega-corporations in the US.

Darragh29 · 21-09-2008 01:57PM

Clytus wrote: »

Now..I didnt quite catch the whole story on the radio, but i heard something along the lines that a number of shop stewards within the Unions are planning on rejecting the pay agreement reached by the social partners.They want a pay rise now and higher than the rates agreed.

I employ 26 people and theres not a whiff of unions within our company so im not obliged under any pay agreements..BUT if I was Im certain that if i was forced to pay a cent more than I am now id be making redundencies.

Im in no position to look for price increases..despite increased overheads which we all know about (i.e gas, elec, commods.) We make modest profits..but are all ploughed back into the company in an effort to drive it forward and to expand. Anyone who has ever asked me for a raise, no matter how long they have been with us, always gets the same blunt answer..and thats I will pay an extra €1 p/h so long as they generate/save €2.

Did anyone notice who were the loudest during the pay talks??...the Unions within the ESB!!!...the same company that has an average salary of €90,000 per employee.
And did anyone notice that not once was there referance made to the level of the minimum wage in this country?? Nope...

Rant over...but it just gets to me how blind and ignorant the Unions are.

Maybe they should have listened to George Lee when he expressed his view that people in Ireland should be grateful they have a job in the first place.

I couldn't agree more with you OP. I've had a mixed experience of unions over the last 10 years. In my last PAYE job, that place could have done with a union, it was a very large US multinational and there was a complete absence of fair play at work, especially in relation to promotions (jobs for the boys mentality), but the problems there didn't require a union to resolve them, just some decent legislation.

There is something seriously wrong with a government that even entertains a discussion about a pay increase with a union that represents people who are earning an average of 90,000 Euro PA. It is interesting to note that the people who have the last of the handy numbers, for example ESB workers, Irish Rail train drivers, etc, the people who are working in protected industries, are the highest paid folks out there in terms of industrial employment positions and are the same people shouting loudest at the pay talks...

If we had better employment legislation that was enforcable, as distinct from voluntary, as the current set up is, we would have no need for unions. Unions have this country ruined. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about: I was in Superquinn in Knocklyon a few months ago on Sunday and was at the meat counter looking for a decent chunk of fillet steak. There were some pre-packed fillets that were a bit smaller than what I was looking for, so I asked a woman behind the counter could she cut me a bigger slice off a big joint of fillet steak on display at the counter.

The reply I got was, "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to cut meat, that is the butchers job and he's on a break, the union won't let me use a knife..."!!!

This was a woman behind a butchers counter in Superquinn!!!

I asked her did she have any problem using a knife, for example if she was at home and had to cut up a Sunday roast for the family, would it be a problem for her, her answer was that she was well able to cut meat but she simply wasn't allowed to use a knife in her job because of union rules that stipulated that she could only serve meat that had already been cut by a butcher.

She apologised profusely and said she just didn't want to be the cause of industrial relations problems where she worked as "the butchers take their job very seriously". In the end I went to Tesco and got my 8 Euro slice of fillet steak no problem and haven't shopped in Superquinn Knocklyon since then. There is no way a union is deciding what size my Sunday fillet steak will be!!!

Darragh29 · 21-09-2008 02:10PM

pearcider wrote: »

It's their right. If anyone is being screwed here, it's the average joe on the average industrial wage being screwed by his greedy company headed by a greedy board of directors/CEO's and shareholders.

Your last point is a total generalization.

I've had enough of unions playing the poorman these days. How many employees of the ESB, Irish Rail, are earning the average industrial wage???

What was required at these pay talks was a fu*king pay cut, nothing more, nothing less, by everyone. The government should have been in a position to lead by having cut their pay by 10% around 3 months ago, if they had have shown some effective leadership, people would have been happy to follow good sound leadership, but you won't see this type of selfless brave leadership from a government of fu*king overweight wasters who have demonstrated that they have absoltely NOTHING to offer this country apart from a 3 day think in.

damnyanks · 21-09-2008 03:19PM

So one must wonder what will happen if tax's go up while the economy begins to slump. Will there be a knock on of unemployment?

Lets face it the unions always get what they want because Ireland at the end of the day no politician in Ireland ever makes a tough decision.

BostonB · 21-09-2008 03:43PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

....In the end I went to Tesco and got my 8 Euro slice of fillet steak no problem and haven't shopped in Superquinn Knocklyon since then. There is no way a union is deciding what size my Sunday fillet steak will be!!!

Just curious are the butchers in Tesco not allowed to be in a union or something?

The unions..fed up listening?

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