Borrowing to buy BOI Shares????????

Idu · 18-07-2008 3:24pm

rugbyman wrote: »

when this thread was started by boombaza,(forgive the spelling) it was fairly obvious that the overselling of the Irish banks was a bit overdone

since this thread was started Irish banking stocks went through the ringer again and only came out this week after the FED guaranteed Fannie and Freddie and the larger IB's in the states showed good earnings for the most part

stepbar · 19-07-2008 3:04am

pocketdooz wrote: »

I don't intend on being bad on Stepbar - you seem to want to get in an argument or something.

From your comments - it's obvious to me, that you really have no idea at all what you are talking about. That's fine - if you're comfortable with making a fool of yourself here on boards there's nothing I can do about that.

This isn't a kiddies forum. People post here to get accurate information - not the Lending 101 rubbish you have posted.

Either way, I hope you get a real job soon and you can add something constructive to this forum. Unlikely in my opinion.

What you've added so far in this thread is either wrong (usually) or inaccurate . . . .

pocketdooz wrote: »

Mods - Can you please take a look at this ?

You shouldn't be allowed post such dribble in the I&M section ?

What the fcuk are you on about? Talk about making a further fool of yourself :rolleyes:

What I've said is 100% correct. So unless you have something to say in retort I take you're talking sh1te.

EDIT: Sorry, actually you're talking sh1te...... Simple as. I look forward to your responce.

chump · 19-07-2008 8:22am

rugbyman wrote: »

there seems to be a bit of venom floating about on this thread bits of narky commenting

There have been a number of well written pieces, but mostly doom and gloom.

when this thread was started by boombaza,(forgive the spelling) it was fairly obvious that the overselling of the Irish banks was a bit overdone.Most of the posters gleefully wanted to see further drops, and therefore, to be right.

I bought 1,ooo shares at 4.51, I can sell today at 5.78, am up 1,270 euro less the fees.

tried to sell them just now, could not find easily how to do that on the NIB website,so will let the hare sit.

Please provide quotes to back up these assertions.
You have the ability to Report bad posts.

Also I was under the impression the vast majority of the advice and wisdom here was re: 'borrowing', having a diverse investment portfolio, and the dangers in lumping into one share in a severely unstable market.

But there ya go, and sure I thought it was a long term investment anyway. Ya wouldn't be cashing out of a longterm investment this early eh?

pocketdooz · 20-07-2008 2:47pm

stepbar wrote: »

What the fcuk are you on about? Talk about making a further fool of yourself :rolleyes:

What I've said is 100% correct. So unless you have something to say in retort I take you're talking sh1te.

EDIT: Sorry, actually you're talking sh1te...... Simple as. I look forward to your responce.

Another great post Stepbar.

Like I said I'm not here to argue so . . . .

Time Magazine · 20-07-2008 8:37pm

Cop onto yourselves, gentlemen. Don't call anyone else a fool or anything like that. Next person to break the rules gets a ban, so cool it. If anyone is unhappy with a post, please click the

button to bring it to the mods' attention. We can't read everything so don't hesitate to give us a heads up.

pocketdooz · 20-07-2008 8:59pm

No problem

End of story. If anyone wants to PM me with any questions about what I posted I am more than happy to answer questions.

Regards.

rugbyman · 21-07-2008 8:37pm

Pocket dooz, I did pm you and got no reply. In fact thats happened a few times to various people and I wondered if they did not arrive.

Anyway folks I pressed the sell button this evening at price of 5.93 euro, having bought at 4.51. A profit of 1450 euro less costs (25,25,and 45 NIB)

Its been a good outing for my Childrens savings. 29% in just over a week. One of the few things I`ve ever done that worked out .

P.s. want to know how lucky I REALLY am.. one month ago I borrowed 125,000 for property. Wondering how to make a quick buck with the cheque I considered buying Bank of Irl when they were 9 euro, I would have lost my baxxs.!

Good Night All
wonder would the children treat me to a meal out?

stepbar · 21-07-2008 10:41pm

pocketdooz wrote: »

No problem

End of story. If anyone wants to PM me with any questions about what I posted I am more than happy to answer questions.

Regards.

How about starting with a few of the posts on this thread? If you knew what you're talking about they we'd have seen a few answers by now :rolleyes:

chump · 22-07-2008 10:55am

rugbyman wrote: »

I am buying BoI shares on monday morning. I am investing my childrens savings of 6,000. Was a bit put out that i did not buy at 5.30 this am ,when they were 5.48 later but i now note they are around 5.1 this evening.

there have been lots of interesting replies, esp the long one, but quite a bit of over the top anti stuff. i think the op may have a good enough idea, esp bearing in mind there will be dividends. At no stage did he say they might go to 16.

I bought 6,000 worth of shares in 1987. when one of then 2,500 shares bought at 1.00 Pounds went to 1.42 I was up a grand. Did I sell? No.
they are now 16.cents
The entire portfolio would not get 3,000 euro today.

rugbyman wrote: »

to supercell somehow during the day " fool" became delusional.

My dad told me many years ago that to call someone a fool implied that one was not a fool oneself, of which one cannot be certain.

Pocketdooz, you have a way with words and I like your logic but I think AIB and BOI are good long term buys. perhaps not worth borrowing for ,but maybe so.

Steven D The shares were Glencar, then 1 pound, went up to 1,42 down to 16 at one time. now 40/50/60 not too sure. the others were Waterford Glass, perhaps at 1.32, though that seems unbelievable, must google it.

Regards.

rugbyman wrote: »

I have my childrens money moved from the credit union to the bank awaiting my electronic command tomorrow morning. b of i were a few pence over 5 euro this evening.

One person asked how do we know its at its lowest? we dont.,obviously.

Those who advocated deposits will indeed be safe, but there is no great upside.

to those who ask how long to keep them? 2/5/10 years. I dont know, my plan is to take profit when i see ourselves up 1,000 euro. the age old adage is to take your principal out and leave the profit in shares.

reading over this ,its perhaps a bit of a jumpy spiel, ,so, roll on the morn.

rugbyman wrote: »

well, got them bought. fortunately there was a glitch on my first ever e banking transaction, so when I want ed to buy at 5.05 euro, I failed and got them cheaper. Another glitch meant I did not buy them at 4.39, but did buy at 4.51. They have risen twice since then(bought at 4 pm yesterday)., i am reluctant to make any comment, good or bad.

That's pro-investing right there.

You took a gamble, it paid off, well done.

pocketdooz · 22-07-2008 3:03pm

stepbar wrote: »

How about starting with a few of the posts on this thread? If you knew what you're talking about they we'd have seen a few answers by now :rolleyes:

No Problem

Write out the questions and I'll answer them happily.

stepbar · 22-07-2008 9:52pm

Ok let's start......

pocketdooz wrote: »

Dividends on BOI shares very likely to be cut as earnings are down 25%

This will result in a further drop in share price

Also, it wasn't an opinion of how BOIs earnings WOULD fall - it was 25% that they have fallen . . . anyway, I hope this answers your question

I have quoted two seperate links discounting your claims.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUKL0843152720080708
http://www.bankofireland.com/investor/financial_information/2008/General_Content_1000294.html

Please clarify your source(s) with a link to an article which supports your claim or withdraw the comments.

pocketdooz wrote: »

This is not true - please, please find out what you're talking about. Simply ring any of the banks and ask them instead of taking the wrong meaning from these statements. This thread has been de-railed anyway - last time I'm checking it TBH

Please clarify your views on what a variable and fixed rate loan means. you haven't provided your explanation, yet you're able to tell Minder and myself with authority that we're incorrect.

pocketdooz · 22-07-2008 11:58pm

Ok Stepbar,

I read that in the Sunday Business Post two weeks ago. I do not still have it. I checked your links and yes, you looks right. I must have mis-read that paper (although I remember being surprised and re-reading it) - so, you're right, if I can't find a link then I'll withdraw that comment.

With regard to the variable / fixed loan, I think all of us here know what it is. I'm surprised to see you can get a fixed rate personal loan in this environment. If the OP can for his shares - great.

To be honest I'm bored with this. I appreciate you making sure that all comments were accurate and I apologise if I offended you. I still agree with what I said back when this thread was still relevant to OP's posting.

For me, this thread is dead.

SoCal90046 · 26-07-2008 7:05am

boomboombazza wrote: »

basically, I already have 200 BOI Shares which I got for My 21st in Jan 2007 when the price was about 16/17. with them now around 5 ish I think it has to be a good longterm investment (5-10 years.)

I was thinking €20k worth.

just wondering if people think this is a good or bad idea. I'm sure most will say dont do it buy I'm a risk acceptor:p

how much would a 20k loan over 5 years cost me roughly per month in total over the 5 years. obviously the return would have to outweigh the cost of the loan to make it worth while.

on a side note my dad sold about 200k worth of BOI when they were about 16/17 and is wondering should he get back in now?

I'd echo the first post here: don't borrow to buy shares. Banks are out of favor here; I think they're a great investment for the disciplined buyer. I am buying up both companies in both banking and pharmaceuticals--banking particularly offers, IMHO, a once in a life time opportunity.

However, in my experience, opportunties come along all the time. Borrowing has costs which will decrease your overall return. BOI is a great company, but there are other--may other--great companies that will come in and out of favor. My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to buy what you can afford; select the broker with the lowest transaction costs and buy quality companies when they're out of favor.

SoCal90046 · 26-07-2008 7:17am

Clytus wrote: »

OP....just look at history....following the Wall street crash it took 40 years for the DOW to fully recover!

Anyway...BOI have a huge exposure on its mortgage laon book in the UK to Buy to let loans.....and Citigroup have downgraded BOI to a "sell" rating.

Your NUTS!!!

Mind you...following 911 everyone said M.O Leary was off his pallet when he put in a huge order for planes....that he ended up getting at knockdown prices.....and how much is he worth now??

Just a couple of comments on this post.

If you're referring to the market crash in 1929, it took less than forty years to recover--closer to 25 for the overall market to recover. During that time; however, there were many companies that offered good returns for investors. It was the period where Benjamin Graham--author of books like the Intelligent Investor and Securities Analysis--honed his skills.

The comment on O'Leary is spot on. It illustrates the maxim to buy when buying is out of favor: it's the best way to get good prices!

SoCal90046 · 26-07-2008 7:22am

Antithetic wrote: »

Honest question: If AIB and BOI are such good buys, why isn't their price higher right now?

It's a good question and it goes to the heart of a buying philosophy.

Price isn't a good indication of long-term value. I mentioned Benjamin Graham earlier. One of his sayings is that in the short term, the market is a voting machine; in the long term, it's a weighing machine. A low price doesn't necessarily mean a bad buy, just like a high price doesn't signal a good buy. One has to dig into the fundamentals of a company to find out if it's a good company on sale or a bad company that the market has fairly valued.

SoCal90046 · 26-07-2008 7:29am

pocketdooz wrote: »

One quick example - back in 2003/2004 I worked in New York.

One of my mates worked as a foreign exchange trader for Refco, at the time the largest currency trading firm in the world. They were high flyers and he made a lot of money. They were going public on the NYSE and were the next big thing.

They were a can't lose proposition - buy it and you'll double your money in 6 months type of thing. My friend bought $25,000 worth - I bought some too. Not that much but a substantial amount, a good chunk of my savings at the time.

They floated on Monday at $23 a share, Tuesday they were up to $28 a share - great return, we were on easy street !

Wednesday the CEO got found out as having made a doggy transactio worth $400m through the company. Closed at $12.

Thursday they closed at $5, by Friday they were worth 6 cents on the pink sheets.

$25,000 turned into $60 in a week.

Trust me mate - after an experience like this you will start to do your own research and not believe the press. The greatest investment tool is compounded interest - steady, reliable investments will outperform pie-in-the-sky ones continually.

But, if you have to go and risk it all, the best of luck with it ! I hope it works out for you.

By the way, wait til 2011 and re-evaluate your opinion on M. O'Leary

It's only when the tide goes out that you find out who's swimming naked. Ryanair have no hedging on their oil costs - let's see if O'Leary is still a genius when oil breaks $200 a barrel and the dollar rebounds.

My two cents.

Great post. It kind of echoes what I was saying, which is don't buy when everyone else is making purchases. I like good, steady companies; like you, I don't buy into the hype.

kincsem · 27-07-2008 7:33pm

Supercell wrote: »

Great post pocketdooz.
I was half thinking of jumping in myself but after thinking long and hard about why the BOI stock is in freefall i decided not to.

Never catch a falling knife.

zod · 28-07-2008 4:43pm

wow ..both AIB and BOI down 10% today .. anglo down 13.5%!

boomboombazza · 31-07-2008 12:20pm

glad i didn't invest now, too much volatility at the moment but I still think that if i bought now i'd be up in 5 years.

this must have been the most active topic in here in a while:D I should post here more often

boomboombazza · 17-09-2008 4:35pm

right well considering the events unfolding recently i owe a big thanks to a few people here for not loosing my hole on these:eek:

this should be made a sticky:D

drunkmonkey · 17-09-2008 8:54pm

So what your next get rich quick scheme?, you can get 40 acres and a house in texas at the moment for about €1000....might be a good bet;)

El Stuntman · 19-09-2008 8:55am

funnily enough, OPs original idea no longer looks quite so daft

massive rally today after FSA banned short selling

Anglo up 100%+, AIB 50%, BoI 40%

Idu · 19-09-2008 9:14am

This ban on short selling is so ridiculous. The ultimate get out of jail free card for these institutions

is_that_so · 19-09-2008 9:48am

Seeing as financial institutions appear to be no more than a house of cards at present probably a very good thing. Can't really deal with the root causes of this while we're in the middle of it.

Idu · 19-09-2008 10:22am

why not stop shorting on airline stocks then? its not their fault that oil prices went so high. A rubbish stock is still a rubbish stock

Poncherello · 19-09-2008 11:14am

Mmmmmmm .. Housing Crisis Budget coming up anyone for a measure to stop people selling their houses !!

Daft

pocketdooz · 19-09-2008 1:01pm

El Stuntman wrote: »

funnily enough, OPs original idea no longer looks quite so daft

massive rally today after FSA banned short selling

Anglo up 100%+, AIB 50%, BoI 40%

Yes, it does look exactly as daft as it did yesterday, last week, last month and when it was first posted.

All the 'no short-selling' rule did was create a situation where short-sellers had been forced into the market to close off positions.

The underlying factors have not changed, nor has the liquidity issue facing BOI.

I think some people on here just want to gamble - with no apparent regard for the value of equity or liquidity situation of these banks.

Seeing it as anything else is just 'results-based thinking' - you should know this is not the right way to think El Stuntman

.

Idu · 19-09-2008 1:23pm

pocketdooz wrote: »

Yes, it does look exactly as daft as it did yesterday, last week, last month and when it was first posted.

All the 'no short-selling' rule did was create a situation where short-sellers had been forced into the market to close off positions.

The underlying factors have not changed, nor has the liquidity issure facing BOI.

I think some people on here just want to gamble - with no apparent regard for the value of equity or liquidity situation of these banks.

Yeah but the short selling rule goes against an open market policy that they were so keen to claim when these hedge funds were pushing the book values of these banks through the roof in the first place. You cant have it both ways. This restriction on naked short selling will just stop "firesale" market reactions like we've seen in the last months

rugbyman · 19-09-2008 3:22pm

I learn every day from these posts. but sometimes you need to temper learning with common sense and gut feelings.

I asked Janet the other day about short selling, got a good anology,Apples, but clearly one should not be able to sell a share that one does not have to sell
I know ,if you had a broker who would accept your word you had them , he could sell and before you had to deliver the scrip you could buy them, win or lose, to hand them over.
But what if you could not buy them ,or they went too expensive for your reserves, or were none for sale, with what would you complete the order for which someone had paid.

Going long or short via a bookie seems ok, for a bet is what it is, but short selling of shares seems a bit iffy.

Re the original OP s plan , the price of bank of ireland is now at the level he proposed to buy in AFAI recall.

For my part I am pleased . bought the self same shares twice since and sold each time. curently up 40 %, only wish i`d had a bigger stake.

Waiting now for Alitalia to bite the dust. it may lift Ryanair . I`m within a whisker of the price at which I am willing to sell.

pocketdooz · 19-09-2008 6:12pm

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

Yeah but the short selling rule goes against an open market policy that they were so keen to claim when these hedge funds were pushing the book values of these banks through the roof in the first place. You cant have it both ways. This restriction on naked short selling will just stop "firesale" market reactions like we've seen in the last months

That's true JOC, . . . but . . . that isn't my point.

My point is that the fact that people think that NOW the Op's idea doesn't look daft because shares were up today is a fallacy. The only thing that changed today about BOI is the short-selling rule.

Their loan-book didn't change , their liquidity issues didn't change, the future outlook for the irish economy didn't change etc .etc .

So, what I'm saying is that just because the shares bounced back a bit today - it doesn't change the fact that borrowing to buy highly volatile stocks with huge downside potential (see: Lehman Brothers, bear Stearns etc.) and (short-term) little upside is a daft idea.

.

Borrowing to buy BOI Shares????????

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