Borrowing to buy BOI Shares????????

boomboombazza

basically, I already have 200 BOI Shares which I got for My 21st in Jan 2007 when the price was about 16/17. with them now around 5 ish I think it has to be a good longterm investment (5-10 years.)

I was thinking €20k worth.

just wondering if people think this is a good or bad idea. I'm sure most will say dont do it buy I'm a risk acceptor:p

how much would a 20k loan over 5 years cost me roughly per month in total over the 5 years. obviously the return would have to outweigh the cost of the loan to make it worth while.


on a side note my dad sold about 200k worth of BOI when they were about 16/17 and is wondering should he get back in now?

pvt.joker

Never ever borrow to buy shares.

Its a quick way to the poorhouse

drunkmonkey

It will cost you €392.83 per month for 5 years, that's at 6.9%....(tesco or first active)

Personally I think your nuts, if David Mc Williams is even half right it would be a very bad investment...

I'd like to see the cost per barrel of sweet crude oil in 5 years on the futuers market? Maybe buy 20k of oil now and sell it in December when prices are at a premium...

irish_bob

boomboombazza wrote: »

basically, I already have 200 BOI Shares which I got for My 21st in Jan 2007 when the price was about 16/17. with them now around 5 ish I think it has to be a good longterm investment (5-10 years.)

I was thinking €20k worth.

just wondering if people think this is a good or bad idea. I'm sure most will say dont do it buy I'm a risk acceptor:p

how much would a 20k loan over 5 years cost me roughly per month in total over the 5 years. obviously the return would have to outweigh the cost of the loan to make it worth while.


on a side note my dad sold about 200k worth of BOI when they were about 16/17 and is wondering should he get back in now?

no bank would lend you money to buy shares right now , besides , ive never heard of anyone borrowing to buy shares

randombar

Absolutely insane, the rule is only invest money you could live without! Things could get a lot worse than they all ready are!

boomboombazza

I had a feeling this would be the response but my reasoning is as follows.

borrow 20k.
costs lets say 7k in interest(it wont cost this much will it?
thats 27k

at todays shareprice you'd get approx 3650 shares(havent checked share price in the last few days but have an idea that its around 5.30/5.50)

in 5 years its not inconcieveable for the shares to be €10 each considering what they were a year or so ago

thats €36k - €27k = 9k profit


the reason i'd borrow is to keep my cash for other shorter term investments and not have it tied up for 5 years

I can afford the loan and after 5 years if its not in profit I still own the shares and can sit on them a little longer



what was the comment about david mcwilliams? what did he say?

pvt.joker

boomboombazza wrote: »

in 5 years its not inconcieveable for the shares to be €10 each considering what they were a year or so ago

In 5 years its not inconcieveable for the shares to be 2 euro each considering what they are now.

The old saying about a fool and his money etc.....

randombar

in 5 years it could be conceivable that they could drop more, or level out at what they're at now, or only go up to 6.00

There are so many possibilities you'd want to be a mad man to take the risk.

I have a bit of money saved at the moment and I'm still not going to invest in the banks yet!

boomboombazza

GaryCocs wrote: »

in 5 years it could be conceivable that they could drop more, or level out at what they're at now, or only go up to 6.00

There are so many possibilities you'd want to be a mad man to take the risk.

I have a bit of money saved at the moment and I'm still not going to invest in the banks yet!

you had northern flop shares so I wont be taking your advice:D. I'm only joking!!!:D:D:D


I know it seems a bit mad but as I said as long as the bank doesnt go belly up in 5 years i'll still have the bones of 4000 BOI shares. the way i see it instead of spending 20k on booze over 5 years i'd be spending 20k on a loan and have 'an asset' at the end of it. if that asset is worth 15k,20k or 40k in 5 years it doesn't really matter.. .it only matters what its worth when you go to sell the asset which could be i 10 years long after the loan is paid back

Diarmuid

boomboombazza wrote: »

the way i see it instead of spending 20k on booze over 5 yearsk

The big difference is you're not borrowing from a bank to go boozing. You are spending your disposable income each week/month. A safer alternative is to put your booze money into a savings account or a Quinnlife fund each month and at the end of 5 years you have an asset. No borrowing and you end with a diversified asset.

I would defiantly not do what you are considering.

randombar

Ya I learnt a fair bit from the northern rock experience.

1 - Allways invest in something you know about or research something you don't know about.

2 - Invest only money you can live without.

3 - Nothing is guaranteed.

4 - Pick a price you want to get out at, have that price in your head and when it reaches that price GET OUT. Don't wait until it gets to it's highest (You'll never win!).

5 - Trading is a brilliant way to make money but there's a reason why people are on massive money to do it

6 - http://www.fool.com

7 - http://finance.google.com

Oafley Jones

Doesn't BOI have 71% exposure to property in UK and Ireland at the moment. Could see them dropping a lot further to be honest.

Also, how low do people think the share price has to fall before a SWF would become interested?

Oafley Jones

boomboombazza wrote: »

in 5 years its not inconcieveable for the shares to be €10 each considering what they were a year or so ago

thats €36k - €27k = 9k profit

Why do you believe that? The share price of 16 euro was at the top of the bubble, when there was plenty of liquidity in the market. It'll take a lot, lot longer - if ever - that BOI returns to anything near those levels. The fall out has just begun, fear is beginning to set in and I feel that the folly of the last ten years will leave a deep scar on the Irish banking system.

boomboombazza

Diarmuid wrote: »

The big difference is you're not borrowing from a bank to go boozing. You are spending your disposable income each week/month. A safer alternative is to put your booze money into a savings account or a Quinnlife fund each month and at the end of 5 years you have an asset. No borrowing and you end with a diversified asset.

I would defiantly not do what you are considering.

no, instead of disposable income on booze,it's disposable income on a loan.

it was a rubbish comparison by me in the first instance

justfortherecor

It's a nonstarter anyways, as a poster above already said, no bank will loan you money to invest in shares.

boomboombazza

justfortherecor wrote: »

It's a nonstarter anyways, as a poster above already said, no bank will loan you money to invest in shares.

ah i'll just tell them it for something else. My salary is ok so they should give me 20k handy enough

TheBazman

Ironically if BOI were willing to lend you the cash to buy BOI shares then this should be taken as a good sign - they are fully confident that they will at least get their money back (ie) they feel the shares will go higher.

Anyway I totally agree you should not borrow to buy shares, particularly in the current environment. I do think BOI shares are a good buy in the long term. The dividend yield is very high at the moment but in the short term you need to be able to live with the volatility in your capital

Diarmuid

boomboombazza wrote: »

no, instead of disposable income on booze,it's disposable income on a loan.

It's not disposable income if you have to make repayments on a loan, it's just another expense like your ESB bill. If you are short money for a few months you can stop paying into your fund, you don't have that option on the repayments.

boomboombazza

would your opinions be any different if i borrowed from a friend/sibling or is it just that borrowing to invest is bad idea.

hold on, what about those who borrowed to invest in property ie probably most of you guys. whats the difference. dont tell me property is in tatters, your probably still up 300% over 10 years

randombar

Borrowing from a friend/sibling is nuts full stop!

Also, would you invest in a house right now?? I reckon you wouldnt invest in a house because you think it would go down, the banks are going to go the exact same way!

boomboombazza

GaryCocs wrote: »

Borrowing from a friend/sibling is nuts full stop!

Also, would you invest in a house right now?? I reckon you wouldnt invest in a house because you think it would go down, the banks are going to go the exact same way!

i'd hold off on the property until after xmas atleast but i reckon there could be a bit of value after xmas but i suppose only time will tell.

as a long term investment BOI are good value right now. they may have a bit to fall yet,who knows but if you buy now theres a good chance you will have a positive return in 5 years. as i said if i dont have a positive return in 5 years time i still have 4000 shares in one of our main banks which will have to come good on the next economic upturn.

I'm sorry for asking for advice and then not taking it but i'm just trying to get my view across. you all seem to think i'm mad but i bet your mostly conservitive bean counters. how many accountants posted in my thread?:D

Oafley Jones

boomboombazza wrote: »

as a long term investment BOI are good value right now.

Yet you go on to say

boomboombazza wrote: »

they may have a bit to fall yet,

boomboombazza wrote: »

who knows but if you buy now theres a good chance you will have a positive return in 5 years.

Why do you believe this?

boomboombazza wrote: »

as i said if i dont have a positive return in 5 years time i still have 4000 shares in one of our main banks which will have to come good on the next economic upturn.

And when do you think this upturn will happen? What will drive it?

kmick

Diarmuid wrote: »

The big difference is you're not borrowing from a bank to go boozing. You are spending your disposable income each week/month. A safer alternative is to put your booze money into a savings account or a Quinnlife fund each month and at the end of 5 years you have an asset. No borrowing and you end with a diversified asset.

I would defiantly not do what you are considering.

My 25k quinnlife fund is losing 500 quid a day at the moment so Id steer clear. However you could probably make some money shorting bank stocks at the moment.

Oafley Jones

kmick wrote: »

My 25k quinnlife fund is losing 500 quid a day at the moment so Id steer clear. However you could probably make some money shorting bank stocks at the moment.

Borrowing money to borrow shares - not a good idea.

boomboombazza

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Yet you go on to say



Why do you believe this?

And when do you think this upturn will happen? What will drive it?

yes i think they are good value ,but as i said they may have a bit to fall yet. i dont have a crystal ball thats why i said they may fall a bit yet.

as for the up turn. everything swings in round abouts. good value shares and good value property etc will generate investment which will have a knock on effect in various sectors, financial, construction etc creating job which create more spending and profits. this isn't my opinion,this is the way economies go up and down. obviously there is more to it than what i said above but you get my drift

Idu

This has to be a joke or a wind up. You clearly know very little about how markets work. You seem to believe that just because BOI were trading 16 last year or whenever that they will definitely get back to this level.It's ridiculous to assume that. Also your plan is so vague. What research have you done on BOI? What do you know about their price history? When will this recessionary cycle end? Are interest rates going up? Is inflation in check? Are we nearing the end of the current credit crisis? Have we seen the worst of whats to come for banking stocks? Are Israel and Iran going to war? Do you have a clear idea about any fundamental market driving issues?

The idea that BOI must be a bargain at this price is ridiculous because if it were then I'm sure there would be a hell of a lot more demand for their stock than there is. The market rarely gets these things wrong

boomboombazza

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

This has to be a joke or a wind up. You clearly know very little about how markets work. You seem to believe that just because BOI were trading 16 last year or whenever that they will definitely get back to this level.It's ridiculous to assume that. Also your plan is so vague. What research have you done on BOI? What do you know about their price history? When will this recessionary cycle end? Are interest rates going up? Is inflation in check? Are we nearing the end of the current credit crisis? Have we seen the worst of whats to come for banking stocks? Are Israel and Iran going to war? Do you have a clear idea about any fundamental market driving issues?

The idea that BOI must be a bargain at this price is ridiculous because if it were then I'm sure there would be a hell of a lot more demand for their stock than there is. The market rarely gets these things wrong

do you actually want me to answer these questions? most of them are open to opinion and debate.

when will this recession/credit crisis/oil crisis end? how should I know? nobody knows some say the the worst of the credit crunch is over but again thats open to debate.

are iran & Isreal going to war? you tell me if you know the answer to this question i'd love to hear where your hetting your info, I sure as hell dont know,i'm not mates with their leaders of those countries,maybe you are

i never said they would go back to 16. i said its highly possible that over a 5 year period they could go back toward 10 when things begin to turn.

your asking me all these questions like im some idiot when infact nobody knows the definitive answers to most of the questions asked.

your post is seriously condesending, no need to talk to me like i'm a retard.

Oafley Jones

boomboombazza wrote: »

do you actually want me to answer these questions? most of them are open to opinion and debate.

when will this recession/credit crisis/oil crisis end? how should I know? nobody knows some say the the worst of the credit crunch is over but again thats open to debate.

are iran & Isreal going to war? you tell me if you know the answer to this question i'd love to hear where your hetting your info, I sure as hell dont know,i'm not mates with their leaders of those countries,maybe you are

i never said they would go back to 16. i said its highly possible that over a 5 year period they could go back toward 10 when things begin to turn.

your asking me all these questions like im some idiot when infact nobody knows the definitive answers to most of the questions asked.

your post is seriously condesending, no need to talk to me like i'm a retard.

Tulip bulbs are a steal at the current prices, you should invest in them.

TechieEddy

At the end of the day no one knows what going to happen but I think its important to follow certain guidelines and not borrowing to invest is one of them.
Investing is risky enough as it it without adding to it.

Tulip bulbs are a steal at the current prices, you should invest in them.

Idu

boomboombazza wrote: »

do you actually want me to answer these questions? most of them are open to opinion and debate.

when will this recession/credit crisis/oil crisis end? how should I know? nobody knows some say the the worst of the credit crunch is over but again thats open to debate.

are iran & Isreal going to war? you tell me if you know the answer to this question i'd love to hear where your hetting your info, I sure as hell dont know,i'm not mates with their leaders of those countries,maybe you are

i never said they would go back to 16. i said its highly possible that over a 5 year period they could go back toward 10 when things begin to turn.

your asking me all these questions like im some idiot when infact nobody knows the definitive answers to most of the questions asked.

your post is seriously condesending, no need to talk to me like i'm a retard.

Didnt mean to sound condescending but you seem uninterested in anyone's opinion on why this might be a bad idea. Your whole theory seems to be that there's a good chance that BOI shares will go back up. But why should they? At its most simplistic there's a 50% chance their shares will go up and down. What fundamentals do BOI have that tilt the odds in their favour? That's the question you need to be able to answer before you take on a sizeable monetary committment. Otherwise you'd be as well off taking out a loan and putting it on red or black or on an even money horse.

I don't know the answer to these questions but I bet if you spoke to Davy's or Goodbody's or any stockbrokers they could at least give you some advice backed up by fact rather than speculation.

pocketdooz

Boom

You seem to have your mind made up on this hair-brained scheme.

It is an absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

But . . . seeing as you are completely ignoring the advice you asked for initially by posting here and are adamant about doing it either way let me just burst your bubble now by telling you that you will not be able to borrow money from anyone to invest in shares.

You are not a 'sophisticated' investor (this is not a slander - this is a legal term), therefore you will not be able to get a margin account.

Lucky for you.

Are they a good price at €5 because they were once at €18. This is completely flawed logic. . . .

How low can they go - surely they can't go lower than €4 ?

You cannot ask these questions . . . they can go to zero or close to it (northern rock, barings bank, worldcom, enron, Refco - will i go on ???)

No, they would not be good value at €5 if they subsequently fall to €4. The dangerous thing about buying stocks at lower valuations is that each additional price decrease is relatively worse for your holding (i.e. a drop from €18 to €17 is about 5%, a drop from €6 to €5 is about 17%

Bank of Ireland are a good LONG TERM investment at their present valuation. Long term is ambiguous though as it could be 2/3/5/10 years before we see a full turn around.

That's why it's called speculation. NEVER BORROW TO SPECULATE, YOU WILL GO BROKE

Anglo will be gone by the end of next year, either merged or taken over. Their cap. is too small, they do not have the govt/cultural links that AIB / BOI have and nearly all of their loan book is collateralised against Irish and UK property. They need cash and they need it fast (why do you think they are offering 8 % on savings accounts, etc.)

When this happens, BOI shares will tank even further. As the ECB keeps increasing it's rates to combate high food and energy inflation in the Eurozone, the cost of your loan will continue to rise, thus increasing your re-payments. This loan will also (if you can get it in the first place) - prevent you from getting a car loan or mortgage or loan to go travelling anytime between now and 2014 - think about that !

Nor will BOI be taken over or enter a merger agreement with anyone . . .

There are no banks that would touch it right now. Although their cap. is small (c. €5 B if I remember right) - there are no banks willing to take on their committed loans in the current market.

Also, there are no banks with that kind of cash lying around that don't want it in case they need to shore up their BS soon. Case in point is RBS's recent calamity of a takeover of ABN, which forced them into a rights issue.

The only people who can afford to takeover BOI now are the soveriegn wealth funds and they have much better global opportunities than BOI

My recommendation :

Read Fortune's Formula and Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

By the sounds of it you are quite young. That's great, you have plenty of time to invest. Going broke by borrowing to buy downtrodden, depressed shares of a troubled, Irish property-exposed bank at the beginning of a recession is NOT the way to start your investing career !!

drunkmonkey

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Tulip bulbs are a steal at the current prices, you should invest in them.

LOL ;)that was a great documentry, I think OP could do with having a look at it...

Supercell

Great post pocketdooz.
I was half thinking of jumping in myself but after thinking long and hard about why the BOI stock is in freefall i decided not to.
Your post confims pretty much what i was thinking - you'd want to be insane to invest in an Irish bank at the start of a recession.

pocketdooz

boomboombazza wrote: »

ah i'll just tell them it for something else. My salary is ok so they should give me 20k handy enough

God, why did I bother writing the above answer to this thread and wasting 10 minutes of my day ?

This is obviously a level judging by this response ^^^

PoleStar

I think the OPs position can be summed up nicely by the phrase "trying to catch a falling knife".

Anyhow I think the OP really needs to realise that when he buys the shares he will not have an asset, just a liability as the shares will most certainly fall after buying them.

And again as someone else said, how low can BOI go? Well it can go to ZERO................

uberwolf

Goggin was on Newstalk on Saturday. One of the parting comments read out was of a staff member who had just borrowed around the figure you're talking about to buy BOI shares.

My response was poor fool. Metaphorically now, literally soon.

drunkmonkey

BOI could go bust when the full extent of the propery bubble becomes clear...

All the other OP's are right, you'd be a loon to buy Irish Banking shares now, you could possibly lose money for the next 4 straight years in a row, In japan it took 5 years for the banks to come clean about there huge non performing loans.....12 years for the economy to recover..

Irish Property Prices rose 380pc since 1996, Switzerland rose by 5pc, there's a correction due and people with over inflated mortages could be in serious trouble....along with the banks who facilated the charade.....

Public Opinion will demand the Government bail out the people before the banks......and you can kiss your 20k goodbye......

Buy yourself a mix of food, water , energy and mineral stocks.... they will never go out of fashion.....

boomboombazza

boomboombazza wrote: »

your post is seriously condesending (sic), no need to talk to me like i'm a retard.

The fact that you are considering leveraged speculation would suggest you are one.

Clytus

OP....just look at history....following the Wall street crash it took 40 years for the DOW to fully recover!

Anyway...BOI have a huge exposure on its mortgage laon book in the UK to Buy to let loans.....and Citigroup have downgraded BOI to a "sell" rating.

Your NUTS!!!

Mind you...following 911 everyone said M.O Leary was off his pallet when he put in a huge order for planes....that he ended up getting at knockdown prices.....and how much is he worth now??

punchestown

justfortherecor wrote: »

It's a nonstarter anyways, as a poster above already said, no bank will loan you money to invest in shares.

Shares can be used as security in terms of securing a loan though. A lien is put on the shares until such time as the borrowings against them have been repaid with the lender at which point the lien is removed and the shares can be traded upon. Most stockbrokers facilitate this. Maybe see if your lender would be willing to loan on the strength of your current holdings?

punchestown

In relation to the above scheme (and I am neither for nor against it) has the op or any of the posters given credence to the payment of dividends on the stock?
I note from this time two years ago, there have been 4 dividend payments (€1.18 in total per share, not sure if thats before or after DIRT) Would it be reasonable to expect similiar dividend payments in the coming years or is the advice given above assuming BOI is heading tits up?

rugbyman

I am buying BoI shares on monday morning. I am investing my childrens savings of 6,000. Was a bit put out that i did not buy at 5.30 this am ,when they were 5.48 later but i now note they are around 5.1 this evening.

there have been lots of interesting replies, esp the long one, but quite a bit of over the top anti stuff. i think the op may have a good enough idea, esp bearing in mind there will be dividends. At no stage did he say they might go to 16.

While on here i want to air my fav whinge. If I ,or you, had gone to any broker or banker in the last ten years and asked their opinion on irish bank shares in which you wanted to put your grannies money, they would have come out with the usual rot. good, well managed company, sound fundamentals,healthy profits, attractive dividends etc. It is highly inlikely that any advisor would have put you off. it is very difficult to get straight talking advice in this country . All the bank/insurance/investors are in the one camp,know each other, and live close/ socialise. When have you read a bad forecast on any Irish company in any newspaper other than the Phoenix.

I bought 6,000 worth of shares in 1987. when one of then 2,500 shares bought at 1.00 Pounds went to 1.42 I was up a grand. Did I sell? No.
they are now 16.cents
The entire portfolio would not get 3,000 euro today.

Supercell

rugbyman wrote: »

I am buying BoI shares on monday morning. I am investing my childrens savings of 6,000. Was a bit put out that i did not buy at 5.30 this am ,when they were 5.48 later but i now note they are around 5.1 this evening.

there have been lots of interesting replies, esp the long one, but quite a bit of over the top anti stuff. i think the op may have a good enough idea, esp bearing in mind there will be dividends. At no stage did he say they might go to 16.

While on here i want to air my fav whinge. If I ,or you, had gone to any broker or banker in the last ten years and asked their opinion on irish bank shares in which you wanted to put your grannies money, they would have come out with the usual rot. good, well managed company, sound fundamentals,healthy profits, attractive dividends etc. It is highly inlikely that any advisor would have put you off. it is very difficult to get straight talking advice in this country . All the bank/insurance/investors are in the one camp,know each other, and live close/ socialise. When have you read a bad forecast on any Irish company in any newspaper other than the Phoenix.

I bought 6,000 worth of shares in 1987. when one of then 2,500 shares bought at 1.00 Pounds went to 1.42 I was up a grand. Did I sell? No.
they are now 16.cents
The entire portfolio would not get 3,000 euro today.

You sir, are delusional.

I hope your children remind you of that on years to come as they grow old enough to realise that you squandered their inheritance.

pocketdooz

rugbyman wrote: »

I am buying BoI shares on monday morning. I am investing my childrens savings of 6,000. Was a bit put out that i did not buy at 5.30 this am ,when they were 5.48 later but i now note they are around 5.1 this evening.

there have been lots of interesting replies, esp the long one, but quite a bit of over the top anti stuff. i think the op may have a good enough idea, esp bearing in mind there will be dividends. At no stage did he say they might go to 16.

While on here i want to air my fav whinge. If I ,or you, had gone to any broker or banker in the last ten years and asked their opinion on irish bank shares in which you wanted to put your grannies money, they would have come out with the usual rot. good, well managed company, sound fundamentals,healthy profits, attractive dividends etc. It is highly inlikely that any advisor would have put you off. it is very difficult to get straight talking advice in this country . All the bank/insurance/investors are in the one camp,know each other, and live close/ socialise. When have you read a bad forecast on any Irish company in any newspaper other than the Phoenix.

I bought 6,000 worth of shares in 1987. when one of then 2,500 shares bought at 1.00 Pounds went to 1.42 I was up a grand. Did I sell? No.
they are now 16.cents
The entire portfolio would not get 3,000 euro today.

Good man - put your childrens savings into BOI - that's a great idea !!!

Judging by your last buy you seem to have the market sewn up.

Please let the rest of us in on it when your figure the bond marker out too ! LOL

Hopefully your kids have no plans of going to college . . .

Mate, in all seriousness - put your kids savings in a 8% account with Anglo or Halifax. Don't put them into BOI shares. You clearly have no idea what you are doing.

stevedublin

what company did you buy for a pound a share in 1987 and are now only worth 16 cent?

irish_bob

stevedublin wrote: »

what company did you buy for a pound a share in 1987 and are now only worth 16 cent?

id say either one that made leg warmers or those old mobile phones that weighed slightly less than a concrete block
you know the ones micheal dougleas used in wall street

rugbyman

to supercell somehow during the day " fool" became delusional.

My dad told me many years ago that to call someone a fool implied that one was not a fool oneself, of which one cannot be certain.

Pocketdooz, you have a way with words and I like your logic but I think AIB and BOI are good long term buys. perhaps not worth borrowing for ,but maybe so.


Steven D The shares were Glencar, then 1 pound, went up to 1,42 down to 16 at one time. now 40/50/60 not too sure. the others were Waterford Glass, perhaps at 1.32, though that seems unbelievable, must google it.

Regards.

Time Magazine

rugbyman wrote: »

Pocketdooz, you have a way with words and I like your logic but I think AIB and BOI are good long term buys. perhaps not worth borrowing for ,but maybe so.

Honest question: If AIB and BOI are such good buys, why isn't their price higher right now?

pocketdooz

rugbyman wrote: »

to supercell somehow during the day " fool" became delusional.

My dad told me many years ago that to call someone a fool implied that one was not a fool oneself, of which one cannot be certain.

Pocketdooz, you have a way with words and I like your logic but I think AIB and BOI are good long term buys. perhaps not worth borrowing for ,but maybe so.


Steven D The shares were Glencar, then 1 pound, went up to 1,42 down to 16 at one time. now 40/50/60 not too sure. the others were Waterford Glass, perhaps at 1.32, though that seems unbelievable, must google it.

Regards.

First off, apologies about the tone of my previous post. I shouldn't have been sarcastic. I just feel that from your post you are way out of your depth. You talk about not buying at 5.30, then they were 5.48 etc.etc. This either reads like someone who is joking or is not familiar with the topic.

Secondly, thanks for the compliment. If you read my original post I say . . . quote

"Bank of Ireland are a good LONG TERM investment at their present valuation. Long term is ambiguous though as it could be 2/3/5/10 years before we see a full turn around.

That's why it's called speculation. NEVER BORROW TO SPECULATE, YOU WILL GO BROKE "

My point was that they are a good LT investment BUT . . . this is a tricky time to be investing and it is not a good idea to put something as important as your kids savings (of €6000) into volatile shares like BOI. If you get Dublin airport bonds they pay over 6.5% guaranteed, Anglo has a savings account that pays 8% and AIB currently have a childrens savings account that pays 10% (there are obviously T&Cs with these) -

*** At these rates your kids savings will grow from €6000 to €25000 in 15 years (I dont know what age your kids are) . . . this is a secure investment. For BOI shares to show this level of return they would have to grow to €23 a share (never going to happen mate ! - not even at the height of the Celtic Tiger / Property boom did they get to these dizzying valuations.) ***

Options like these are a better idea in the current market in my opinion. Again, this is my opinion and you're perfectly entitles to tell me to go and ***** if you want. Either way, I hope it works out for your savings. All the best.

boomboombazza

pocketdooz wrote: »

My point was that they are a good LT investment BUT . . . this is a tricky time to be investing and it is not a good idea to put something as important as your kids savings (of €6000) into volatile shares like BOI. If you get Dublin airport bonds they pay over 6.5% guaranteed, Anglo has a savings account that pays 8% and AIB currently have a childrens savings account that pays 10% (there are obviously T&Cs with these) -

*** At these rates your kids savings will grow from €6000 to €25000 in 15 years (I dont know what age your kids are) . . . this is a secure investment. For BOI shares to show this level of return they would have to grow to €23 a share (never going to happen mate ! - not even at the height of the Celtic Tiger / Property boom did they get to these dizzying valuations.) ***

Options like these are a better idea in the current market in my opinion. Again, this is my opinion and you're perfectly entitles to tell me to go and ***** if you want. Either way, I hope it works out for your savings. All the bes.

i like your other post and this one. you seem to me to be the only one in this post who knows what they are talking about.the rest are giving the usual rubbish opinions that they read somewhere on the net.

I will take your advice on board,i'm having second thoughts having heard what you guys have to say but i still think it is a good long term investment. your correct I am young. i'm 22. most of my investments (not shares) have been pretty risky/balls to the wall so far and i haven't done too bad at all. i suppose thats my style i'm a firm believer that high risk yields high dividends. the michael o'leary thing is a prime example.


maybe i need a bad investment to shake me up a bit and make me more cautious. i'm not afraid of going broke like the rest of you bean counters.you may have steady average income and if thats good enough for you then fine.yes,i would like to be minted and you dont get minted with out taking risks.if i do go broke it will only make me more hungry for success.

someone said something about being a 'sophisticated investor'. i am aware of the term and understand it but i dont see why i wont be able to buy BOI shares. i already own 200 BOI shares.i'm a BOI customer and have had large loans with them previously which have been repaid. I wont have a problem getting a loan from them;)

probably going to hold off on BOI for a while but it's still an option

pocketdooz

boomboombazza wrote: »

i like your other post and this one. you seem to me to be the only one in this post who knows what they are talking about.the rest are giving the usual rubbish opinions that they read somewhere on the net.

I will take your advice on board,i'm having second thoughts having heard what you guys have to say but i still think it is a good long term investment. your correct I am young. i'm 22. most of my investments (not shares) have been pretty risky/balls to the wall so far and i haven't done too bad at all. i suppose thats my style i'm a firm believer that high risk yields high dividends. the michael o'leary thing is a prime example.


maybe i need a bad investment to shake me up a bit and make me more cautious. i'm not afraid of going broke like the rest of you bean counters.you may have steady average income and if thats good enough for you then fine.yes,i would like to be minted and you dont get minted with out taking risks.if i do go broke it will only make me more hungry for success.

someone said something about being a 'sophisticated investor'. i am aware of the term and understand it but i dont see why i wont be able to buy BOI shares. i already own 200 BOI shares.i'm a BOI customer and have had large loans with them previously which have been repaid. I wont have a problem getting a loan from them;)

probably going to hold off on BOI for a while but it's still an option

One quick example - back in 2003/2004 I worked in New York.

One of my mates worked as a foreign exchange trader for Refco, at the time the largest currency trading firm in the world. They were high flyers and he made a lot of money. They were going public on the NYSE and were the next big thing.

They were a can't lose proposition - buy it and you'll double your money in 6 months type of thing. My friend bought $25,000 worth - I bought some too. Not that much but a substantial amount, a good chunk of my savings at the time.

They floated on Monday at $23 a share, Tuesday they were up to $28 a share - great return, we were on easy street !

Wednesday the CEO got found out as having made a doggy transactio worth $400m through the company. Closed at $12.

Thursday they closed at $5, by Friday they were worth 6 cents on the pink sheets.

$25,000 turned into $60 in a week.

Trust me mate - after an experience like this you will start to do your own research and not believe the press. The greatest investment tool is compounded interest - steady, reliable investments will outperform pie-in-the-sky ones continually.

But, if you have to go and risk it all, the best of luck with it ! I hope it works out for you.

By the way, wait til 2011 and re-evaluate your opinion on M. O'Leary

It's only when the tide goes out that you find out who's swimming naked. Ryanair have no hedging on their oil costs - let's see if O'Leary is still a genius when oil breaks $200 a barrel and the dollar rebounds.

My two cents.