Armed Gardai! Look out innocent people!!

monument wrote: »

Err.. as I said: One way or another the amount of cases known about has risen.

And my point is that the Stats prove nothing, but can be used to to try and prove either argument.

Four-Too wrote: »

Hi, I totally believe you, you have a great picture of the future, OUR future - which matters. I'm saddened greatly by reading your post....but we need to do something to help other people, it doesn't have to turn out like that, I know it and you know it. Why have to start asking questions..we have to start gettting angry, really angry. Why are Poles and Latvians and Nigerians let into our country illegaly every day? Their crimes are going to be a great excuse to bring in armed cops, sadly. But we have to come to understandings, all of us, in the future, and we must unite and look out for each other, and I mean blacks, Poles and native Irish looking out for one another. Sounds a bit fairytailish

You're really showing that you have absolutely no knowledge on the subject (and also that you are very racist in your perceptions).

There is no such thing as an illegal Pole or Latvian. OK. Do you need me to repeat it? It's fairly simple and is common knowledge amongst anyone who has a clue about the immigrants in our country. WE ARE PART OF THE EU. Any EU citizen can move to any other EU nation and live/work/study etc (yes that includes you, as an Irish citizen, being able to go to any other EU country and be afforded the same rights as a native). There are a few temporary exceptions, but they do not apply to Poles/Latvians coming to Ireland.

monument wrote: »

Just to add a little perspective, from the article linked to in the first post:

The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) has voiced concern at the project, however.

AGSI general secretary Joe Dirwan said the new system "blurs the traditional ethos of the unarmed, uniformed gardaí, which has served this country so well".

He believed response units made up of plainclothes detective members, who have always been armed, would be more appropriate.

I don't understand. Surely the primary purpose of having an armed unit is as a deterrent. By that reasoning, shouldn't armed guards be kitted out to be more conspicuous, not less?

To those who say armed units are unwarranted, I would say that unless you are a copper, you don't get to tell us about how safe the country is. I couldn't conceive of policing the worst parts of Irish cities without serious backup, and I wouldn't ask anyone else to do it either.

Dragan wrote: »

Irregardless

This is not a word.

Firstly:

saying simply stats "prove nothing" is like simply saying facts prove nothing

I actually said THE stats, not stats in general. I was refering to your quote.

Anyway, I haven't chosen A or B, I've chosen C) that there have been more incidents reported to the Ombudsman, and the cases have been resolved, not out of fear, but because they're doing their job.

And to add to that, the increase in payouts by the DoJ is not an increase of reporting, it is an increase of confirmed Garda abuse which the State has fully accepted as such and has paid out for such.

And that is why I said:

My point is that this doesn't mean that incidents are on the increase, only that the amount of reported and successful claims are increasing.

So we're arguing the same point.

Four-Too wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0904/1220372097767.html

Now they have set up an armed back-up force for the Gardai, which would be allowed to use deadly weapons. I think the country and it's populace is quite peaceful, the only ones in Irish society who would deserve to have armed Gardai on their tail are a few drug dealers who also carry weapons. But these drugies could be dealt with in other ways that the government hasn't bothered to do.
Bottom line, this is an attack on YOU! The ordinary Irish citizen, and your human rights if they should try anything. Police brutality is around the corner, and a policed state is here!

This is nothing but bull. It not an attack on the "ordinary Irish citizen" unless you are saying that all ordinary Irish citizen are drug running gangland killers.
Unless you (Four-Too) are going in, unarmed against these thugs, who are attacking ordinary Irish citizen human rights to live peacefully without fear of attack. Are you going to bring them (The Thugs) down to protect our rights?
We are a police state from the every beginning of the state. The guards are there to enforce the law. We are ones who are limiting their powers are us the citizens who elect TD's, who in turn elected a government and pass laws and control the Guards. We are their bosses, we as citizens who vote and of the majority in this country have the power to give and take powers away from them.

I am in favour of of a specialise group of Gardai (not the common guard on the street) to be armed and properly trained and supervised (independent body) and be ready at a moment notice of trouble. These guards are there as a consequence of the thugs firing indecrimately at anyone and they are getting younger every year and more violent. Two years ago, there was spray of shots at Mcdonalds at the Crescent shopping centre here in Limerick, luckily no one go hit and Kids were narrowly missed. I bet they are many incidents in Dublin not reported like this. These thugs do not give a dam about us.

I can image an accountant from CAB or revenue entering a drug dealers/criminal house and trying to disarm them, without protection from armed Guards. They just smile and blast him/her away. An Accountant a day in the grave.

Unless you are suggesting another option the government has and let Willie 'O Dea Army and Navy deal with these criminal gangs. Start a Full Daily military warfare in the homes and streets of Dublin, Limerick, Cork and other trouble spots.

You claim the government have other ways, Please do mention them and not keep them to yourself :rolleyes:.

Do you write for Indymedia by any chance?

Four-Too wrote: »

Yes...but you do not understand that the biggest threat and danger to us, are not criminal gangs who shoot each other, now I know innocents can get caught in crossfire unfortunately, the bottom line is that our RIGHTS, and our INDEPENDENCE and our PRIVACY is being slowly eroded everyday by the government which is fully compliant with the governments of the US and Britian. If these criminal gangs are deliberately killing innocents, that is a different story, and if they were...then surely the government/gardai would have to kill them/capture them, and the worst ones would be out of the game.
You want to use violence to compat violence, which doesn't work. This **** IS DEEP...it could take me pages to explain my points! If you don't like criminal gangs, then it's up to you and other ordinary people to ARM YOURSELVES, and devise a system to protect people living in ganglands. Don't put your faith in a gardai that looks after government and big financial companies interests ahead of yours.
And have you ever taken illegal drugs in your lifetime mate? Even cannibis?? If so you are implicated yourself where a druglord killed an innocent, you are partly responsible. All our actions have a reaction - if you believe in Karma.
The way I see it is that the goverment failed to act, after all, these "gangs" create a great excuse to bring in an armed police force - which is what they want, so you can be totally controlled. Bertie and co. could have surely sought help elsewhere to eliminate the guys at the top of these criminal gangs. Wasn't Bertie great pals with that demon Bush?

You are bloody nuts, to allow people to arm themselves. Neighbour disputes will get a hell alot bloodier than they are already are.
Drunken/angry disputes will lead to killing and we will be just as bad as the US where open gangland warfare is rife and ordinary people arming themselves and ending up killing the wrong people/kids out of fear, thinking it was a robber breaking into a house at night.
Kids gaining access to guns in their homes are a bigger danger than the criminals. Kids always find a way of gaining access to guns, even if the guns are locked away within the family home. Look at the States where it is a right to arm themselves, There are a high percentage of people and local police getting shot by their own guns than the criminal’s own weapons as many of them are not properly trained to use them. And that is using violence versus violence

Four-Too wrote:

You want to use violence to compat violence, which doesn't work.

You talk about Karma and yet, you claim I should Arm myself and also say that violence to compact violence does not work. You do not make sense.
No, I have not taken Illegal Drugs, because I know it feeds the criminals more power. Buying from criminals only promote crime which give them money to buy weapons and support killings.

Specialise and trained group within the police (who are independently supervised) only use violence as a last resort, they negotiate first and access the situation tacitly first, and often disarm them without the need to shoot. Nuts cases/criminals shoot first and do not have remorse. While to police do have to go home and face their families. Our Guards says they do not have proper support from the Government, with laws to apprehended these criminals, and when they do, the Criminals are often let go early because of weak laws or easy punishment. Your way of arming the people DO NOT WORK and it has already been proven in the US.

We pay Taxes and vote in elections for Government to protect us and to run the country. If you do not like the government then vote them out in the next election. That is where the power is. We as citizens (who either vote or not vote) are responsible for voting in and for the behaviour of our government. If we do not speak out to them, then the government will continue as they are. Unless you can prove that our government is undermining us its citizens, then show it and expose it to the media for everybody else to look at it. I want hard proof, not hearsay or rambling accusations.