Uber thin advert models

Macha · 16-09-2008 12:18PM

scoey wrote: »

Sounds to me like we have an epidemic of women unable to take responsibility for their own actions/lives. There are more overweight women now than in the past. Is this because of advertisements showing really thin women causing low self esteem? I seriously doubt it. Perhaps it's down to poor diet and lack of exercise and a generally sedentary lifestyle.

You mean you would like to seriously doubt it. Of course there are other issues but as someone with first-hand experience of eating disorders, I can tell you that the portrayal of women in the media is a big problem. Whatever else a woman is in our society, she'd better be good-looking as well. I read an article in the Telegraph during the Olympics complaining that the female swimmers' breasts weren't big enough. Why couldn't they just appreciate what great athletes they were? Why the need to judge them physically? I don't remember seeing any articles looking at the male weighlifters going. Wow, nice, but a little too big...gotta work on their attractiveness.

There are more overweight women (and men) now because of the reasons you pointed out. But there are also psychological issues often involved. When your feelings of worth are tied to how you look, you can feel out of control and desperate to do anything. Unfortunately, sometimes you don't do the right things and can actually end up heavier (ie thru drinks-based diets).

scoey wrote: »

Can't do sports because they have no confidence? Maybe they should try a solitary form of exercise like walking? Maybe they should try cleaning up their diet a bit and drinking less. People with healthy diets and active lives generally do not become fat.

Again you're just bringing it down to behaviour and not looking at the psychological issues. I'll tell you a story. A friend of mine is a physio guy. A few years ago, he trained a male and a female hockey team. He said the guys all thought they were next in line for the national squad & he constantly had to bring them down a peg or two. He also said that the girls had shockingly low confidence in their abilities and he was always trying to boost it up to get them to believe in themselves.

scoey wrote: »

Also, I hate to break this to you, but women being judged on their looks isn't a recent phenomenon. It's a biological fact that men judge women mostly on looks whereas women have 100 other little things that they also use to sum up a potential mate.

Ugh I'm getting so tired of this. REALLY. Men, newsflash: you do not have a monopoly in putting looks first when choosing a partner. A study in the US showed that when men and women were asked to list the important attributes in a mate in order, men put looks first and women put sense of humour or something. Now, when they did a test to reveal what they actually thought subconsciously, women also put looks first.

Sorry boys, but we are checking you all out just as much as you are checking us out. It's just more socially acceptable for us to put it on display.

scoey wrote: »

In a way I'd say women have it easier than men in this regard. Most of the pictures that are posted of some examples of stick thin people in the media are of catwalk models. Now, I don't know many men who are even remotely interested in the fashion industry or catwalk models. Likewise I don't know many men who are attracted to dangerously thin looking women. But just because our society is heading towards an epidemic of overweight women(and men), it doesn't mean we should all shift the goalposts in terms of what we find attractive, which is a healthy looking woman, that is to say a women who is neither fat nor anorexic looking.

Well, I think that's the OP's point - healthy=good, anorexic=bad.

scoey wrote: »

Nobody is forcing anybody to go on diets like lipotrim. If anything, such diets are representative of the laziness and quick fix mentality of many people nowadays. Don't want to clean up your diet and do regular exercise, making a change to your unhealthy lifestyle? Just starve yourself! It takes years to become very fat, but people expect to lose it all in a couple of weeks. Usually for some event, it seems to me, like a holiday in the sun or a wedding. There doesn't seem to be much concern with actually living a healthy lifestyle. Which is why these diets are often doomed to failure. The person loses the fat but then reverts back to their previous unhealthy diet and gains it all back.

Speaking from personal experience again, it isn't down to laziness, it is done through sheer desperation to get rid of the body fat. If you actually read the thread in the Nutrition & Diet forum on Celebrity Slim, a lot of the people on it have tried lots of things but have failed for whatever reason. Also, there is a lot of ignorance - some people still think a low-fat diet is the way to go.

Also, the pursuit of the perfect, attainable body (ie this very slim Hollywood ideal) is doomed to end in failure, mainly because most women's bodies just aren't meant to look like that. This normally leads to beating yourself up because you have failed again, cue comfort eating, cue more self-hatred...ad nauseum..

I just don't think the majority of men have this love/hate relationship going on with food. My dad is Type II diabetic & I asked him if he ever felt guilty eating sugary foods. He looked a bit confused and said "Well, I know I shouldn't but I wouldn't say I ever feel guilty". Me? I feel guilty every time I look at a piece of chocolate!

scoey wrote: »

It's all well and good to throw out snotty comments like "why don't you post pictures of yourself", but they're a bit useless really. I have no desire or intention to post a picture of myself on a public message board. I exercise regularly and am in very good shape, thanks for asking.

Ok sorry that was a bit snotty.

Silenceisbliss · 16-09-2008 12:20PM

taconnol wrote: »

You mean you would like to seriously doubt it. Of course there are other issues but as someone with first-hand experience of eating disorders, I can tell you that the portrayal of women in the media is a big problem. Whatever else a woman is in our society, she'd better be good-looking as well. I read an article in the Telegraph during the Olympics complaining that the female swimmers' breasts weren't big enough. Why couldn't they just appreciate what great athletes they were? Why the need to judge them physically? I don't remember seeing any articles looking at the male weighlifters going. Wow, nice, but a little too big...gotta work on their attractiveness.

There are more overweight women (and men) now because of the reasons you pointed out. But there are also psychological issues often involved. When your feelings of worth are tied to how you look, you can feel out of control and desperate to do anything. Unfortunately, sometimes you don't do the right things and can actually end up heavier (ie thru drinks-based diets).

Again you're just bringing it down to behaviour and not looking at the psychological issues. I'll tell you a story. A friend of mine is a physio guy. A few years ago, he trained a male and a female hockey team. He said the guys all thought they were next in line for the national squad & he constantly had to bring them down a peg or two. He also said that the girls had shockingly low confidence in their abilities and he was always trying to boost it up to get them to believe in themselves.

Ugh I'm getting so tired of this. REALLY. Men, newsflash: you do not have a monopoly in putting looks first when choosing a partner. A study in the US showed that when men and women were asked to list the important attributes in a mate in order, men put looks first and women put sense of humour or something. Now, when they did a test to reveal what they actually thought subconsciously, women also put looks first.

Sorry boys, but we are checking you all out just as much as you are checking us out. It's just more socially acceptable for us to put it on display.

Well, I think that's the OP's point - healthy=good, anorexic=bad.

Speaking from personal experience again, it isn't down to laziness, it is done through sheer desperation to get rid of the body fat. If you actually read the thread in the Nutrition & Diet forum on Celebrity Slim, a lot of the people on it have tried lots of things but have failed for whatever reason. Also, there is a lot of ignorance - some people still think a low-fat diet is the way to go.

Also, the pursuit of the perfect, attainable body (ie this very slim Hollywood ideal) is doomed to end in failure, mainly because most women's bodies just aren't meant to look like that. This normally leads to beating yourself up because you have failed again, cue comfort eating, cue more self-hatred...ad nauseum..

I just don't think the majority of men have this love/hate relationship going on with food. My dad is Type II diabetic & I asked him if he ever felt guilty eating sugary foods. He looked a bit confused and said "Well, I know I shouldn't but I wouldn't say I ever feel guilty". Me? I feel guilty every time I look at a piece of chocolate!

Ok sorry that was a bit snotty.

wow....im printing this off as i type this. will read it later and get back to you.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 16-09-2008 12:35PM

surely taconnal taht says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about men, or really skinny women or the worldwide chauvinist conspiracy. If you feel guilty after eating chocolate cake, well then that's just hilarious. And if you go around advertising that fact to the wider world, dont be surprised to see feminism take a few knocks.

also, speaking from personal experience.. it is all about laziness. I could go lose the weight I put on this year, quite simply, but I just cannot be bothered. I at least have the decency to be honest with myself and not harp on about depression and my feelings. I'm a fat bastard, because I'm a lazy bastard.

scoey · 16-09-2008 12:40PM

Good post taconnol. Can't really argue with your points without being argumentative for the sake of it. To be honest I agree with a lot of what you've said. I agree that there are often psychological factors at play with eating disorders and weight problems. I'm not really sure how much blame I'd place on the advertising industry or the media though. I do think that in most cases the reason why people are overweight is simply down to poor diet and lack of exercise. I'm sure media images of "beauty" don't help the self esteem of such people, but I'm not sure the media can really be labeled as responsible for much.

I think that this ad everyone's talking about isn't the norm. The women in most ads I see are a healthy looking size.

Macha · 16-09-2008 12:48PM

Thanks scoey, not very often you find someone not being argumentative for the hell of it in AH!

Yeah, I mean I'm not saying there aren't people who are fat simply because they are too lazy to exercise & sort out their diet, just that sometimes things are a bit more complicated for some girls.

And of course anyone who feels as guilty as I do about eating chocolate has other issues (normally to do with control and the attainment of perfection

) but having pictures of perfect little women prancing around in their underwear everywhere you turn doesn't help.

As I say, bring on equality! More hot naked men! Ah no, I wouldn't want the sort of equality that makes men just as obsessed with body image as many women are.

MistressMord - me talking about my issues with food is meant to highlight to other people the serious damage that our society's obsession with the female form can have on a girl. OK I have control issues and I could have chosen another area of my life to focus them on (ie my career) but as a female, it ended up being focused around my body. I'm about as feminist as they come (well, the nice kind

) and I do not see anything hypocritical or contradictory about discussing this.

Daithi McGee · 16-09-2008 12:48PM

Dudess wrote: »

However there are a lot of users here who think it's ok to bully, ostracise, ridicule fat people and I simply make the point that it's none of their ****ing business if a person is fat and to leave them alone. Then the convenient "strain on the health service" line is trotted out but that's a load of balls as these people don't give a **** about the health service, they just enjoy belittling someone who looks different.

Untwist them knickers Dudess!

None really come out and says they are fat, initially. You can just tell by the way they jump on the "There is nothing wrong with fatties" bandwagon.
It is more that bandwagon that gets the p1ss taken out of it. Sure isn't that why the internet was invented? To take the p1ss out of bandwagons and wagons in general? After the whole information superhighway part, of course.

LolaDub · 16-09-2008 12:58PM

I understand that the op is asking are the skinny women we see so much of in advertising what men really go for or are the more average size 12s among us with boobs and a bum what they prefer? I would say it comes down to the man really. Some of my male friends go running after skinny others prefer the boobs and bum. I'd say in all honesty most of my male friends on a sat night go drooling over whatever is wearing the least amount of clothes.

I personally don't think it is fair to poke fun at a size 12 girl for being a tub or at a size 8 girl for being influenced by advertising. I think the issue comes down to health, if you're a healthy 14 or an 8 then whats wrong? Different folks different strokes, some people will find you attractive, others won't, thats life. A lot of women are naturally curvy, a lot of women are naturally thin. The issue that should be promoted is health not what guys want to get stuck into.

Dudess · 16-09-2008 01:10PM

Daithi McGee wrote: »

None really come out and says they are fat, initially. You can just tell by the way they jump on the "There is nothing wrong with fatties" bandwagon.

No you can't. Going by that logic, you've decided I'm fat. I'm size 10 to 12. You can of course be a non fat person and feel disgusted at others being bullied about their weight (fat or thin) while at the same time viewing excess weight as very unhealthy and dangerous. My mate's a guy of nine stone - he is miniscule - and he constantly rails against the abuse fat girls get, to the point where it seems as if he considers obesity kinda acceptable and something to be celebrated, in which case I tell him to cop on.

Mr. Presentable · 16-09-2008 01:12PM

LolaDub wrote: »

A lot of women are naturally curvy, a lot of women are naturally thin.

Curvy and thin are not opposites - some thin women are also curvy.

Size 12 is plump if you are under 5' 5", as is 14 if under 5' 9". 14 at 5' 6" is fat.
Not just curvy, fat!

Dudess · 16-09-2008 01:15PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Size 12 is plump if you are under 5' 5", as is 14 if under 5' 9". 14 at 5' 6" is fat.
Not just curvy, fat!

:rolleyes:

javaboy · 16-09-2008 01:20PM

Dudess wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you want Dudess but them's the rules. Now please tell us what height you are so we can classify you according to nipplenuts' rules.:pac:;)

Sherifu · 16-09-2008 01:21PM

Ethiopians out now.

16-09-2008 01:31PM

This thread is getting pretty thin!

tribulus · 16-09-2008 01:36PM

This thread makes me so glad I was born with a penis.

pseudonym1 · 16-09-2008 01:36PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Curvy and thin are not opposites - some thin women are also curvy.

Size 12 is plump if you are under 5' 5", as is 14 if under 5' 9". 14 at 5' 6" is fat.
Not just curvy, fat!

You obviously know more then I do bout womens bodies but I disagree. Bout 1st bit 2nd sounds about right - not sure calling someone a size 14 is very nice though! So what would be underweight size and height measurements, pray tell?

brianthebard · 16-09-2008 01:38PM

tribulus wrote: »

This thread makes me so glad I was born with a penis.

Really? I'm thankful on an almost daily basis for mine...

Jesus Loves You · 16-09-2008 01:39PM

God loves all his children be they skinny or fat.

Heaven is getting a little tight for space so we prefer the skinny ones these days.

tribulus · 16-09-2008 01:41PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Really? I'm thankful on an almost daily basis for mine...

Lol, good point.

javaboy · 16-09-2008 01:42PM

Jesus Loves You wrote: »

God loves all his children be they skinny or fat.

Heaven is getting a little tight for space so we prefer the skinny ones these days.

But sure gluttony's a sin so............. :pac::pac::pac:

von Neumann · 16-09-2008 02:09PM

tbh I run a country mile from excessively skinny girls,

It just screams I have issues!

Give me a girl with curves and a smile any day.

carlybabe1 · 16-09-2008 02:25PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Curvy and thin are not opposites - some thin women are also curvy.

Size 12 is plump if you are under 5' 5", as is 14 if under 5' 9". 14 at 5' 6" is fat.
Not just curvy, fat!

Glad the wardrobe advisor cleared that up for us girls, sure we'd be lost without ye. Sorry to all those girls who are "plump/fat", but according to the lord an master above, these are the rules :rolleyes:

One question, unless you're regularly jumpin in an out of these womens sizes, how the f**k do ye know;)

Sherifu wrote: »

Ethiopians out now.

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

This thread is getting pretty thin!

at least this ones somewhat humoursome

tribulus wrote: »

This thread makes me so glad I was born with a penis.

brianthebard wrote: »

Really? I'm thankful on an almost daily basis for mine...

tribulus wrote: »

Lol, good point.

Yes Yes, heres an idea lads, why dont ye set up A PENIS APPRECIATION thread, an piss off postin crap on this one?????

MCMLXXXIII · 16-09-2008 02:39PM

After reading every post in this thread, all I have to say is:

If using size 0-2 models wasn't the best way to sell/promote a product, they wouldn't do it.

Dudess · 16-09-2008 02:47PM

The camera definitely adds lbs too.

Nothing at all wrong with very slim - in fact the most beautiful woman ever (in my opinion) is very slim: http://lancemannion.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/michelle_pfeiffer.jpg

She looks radiant though, not ill.

carlybabe1 · 16-09-2008 02:56PM

Dudess wrote: »

The camera definitely adds lbs too.

Nothing at all wrong with very slim - in fact the most beautiful woman ever (in my opinion) is very slim: http://lancemannion.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/michelle_pfeiffer.jpg

She looks radiant though, not ill.

Exactly, if I was to get to pick my body shape t would be angelina jolie in tombraider (she's lost abit much lately, looked awful in wanted)
I like my curves, and i like fillin the ass of my jeans (I said curves, not rolls) but my friend is a slender size eight and some clothes look fantastic on her that would look ridiculous on someone my size. I have seen some seriously skinny girls around shopping centers etc, and personally I think its awful lookin as well as the obvious health risks, so they're takin cues from smoewhere

Macha · 16-09-2008 03:03PM

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

After reading every post in this thread, all I have to say is:

If using size 0-2 models wasn't the best way to sell/promote a product, they wouldn't do it.

You're dead right. And then the knock-on effect is the huge dieting industry -god knows how many millions are being made in pills, lotions, potions, plan, books, videos, dvds, magazines, shakes...You can't sell something to someone until you convince them there's something wrong with them as they are (or that they really, really need a new leather couch..)

But I don't think adverts should be given free reign - the power of advertising should be recognised and restrained, while acknowledging that it isn't the only factor involved.

Personally, I find super skinny girls to be the most high-pitched and squealy, especially when they meet one of their friends.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 16-09-2008 03:07PM

look, if women really aren't capable enough to live their own lives without protection from the nasty advertisers then your gender has far far bigger problems than a few skinny chicks with eating disorders. If you want to restrain the power of advertising, don't pay attention to it. That's as far as you can take that decision, every other muppet who wants to fawn over celebrities, skinny clothes hangers and the fashion industry has every right to pay attention to and to spend their money on whatever they want.

javaboy · 16-09-2008 03:22PM

MistressMord wrote: »

If you want to restrain the power of advertising, don't pay attention to it.

To stop those monsters 1-2-3,
Here's a fresh new way that's trouble-free,
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee...
Guarantee void in Tennessee.

Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!

Macha · 16-09-2008 03:36PM

MistressMord wrote: »

look, if women really aren't capable enough to live their own lives without protection from the nasty advertisers then your gender has far far bigger problems than a few skinny chicks with eating disorders. If you want to restrain the power of advertising, don't pay attention to it. That's as far as you can take that decision, every other muppet who wants to fawn over celebrities, skinny clothes hangers and the fashion industry has every right to pay attention to and to spend their money on whatever they want.

Right, I'll be sure to say that to my 8 year old daughter. I'll also be sure to buy a pair of those vision-blocking contraptions that horses wear, to be used whenever she steps out of the house.

It isn't a question of intelligence because often the damage is done in childhood.

These sort of stats are not normal, and these women are not "muppets"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4898484.stm

I mean, why are we doing this to our kids?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4954616.stm

carlybabe1 · 16-09-2008 03:51PM

MistressMord wrote: »

look, if women really aren't capable enough to live their own lives without protection from the nasty advertisers then your gender has far far bigger problems than a few skinny chicks with eating disorders. If you want to restrain the power of advertising, don't pay attention to it.

As someone already pointed out on this thread, advertising is a really powerful tool, its used worldwide for just about everything, from sex to religion to charity..so obviously its a very productive tool and heres how it works...
1) this is the product we need to sell, its a face cream that does **** all, we'll maybe it'll make your nose and lips fall of in a decade or too, but sure...
2) what market are we aiming at? oh maybe women between the ages of twety five to fourty...that bracket encompasses all manner of women with all manner of body issues looking for a quick fix for ebbing confidence....
3) how do we sell it?? using women with unblemished skin, no wrinkles what so ever and look nowhere near twenty five.
Cue superstud on the arm, cause when women use this stuff, life is good to them.. now you can say gullible all ye like, but thats how it works, and it does work

as for not paying attention to it, that would include not watching tv, reading any manner of magazines and switching off the radio every ten minutes..... the population would explode in say 9 mnths

That's as far as you can take that decision, every other muppet who wants to fawn over celebrities, skinny clothes hangers and the fashion industry has every right to pay attention to and to spend their money on whatever they want.

I want to disagree with you hear, I dont belive thats as far as we can take it but the rest is a fair point

carlybabe1 · 16-09-2008 03:55PM

good call taconnol, ive noticed its a trend influencing boys aswell. someone posted about the guy in the aero add, slim pickings is right, he looks like hes had implants on his stomach ugghhh

Uber thin advert models

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