Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

Zaph · 10-09-2008 07:16PM

I always thought that stories of people having their drinks spiked were just to cover up the fact that they were either lightweights or they went completely nuts and were embarrassed by their actions so they claimed not to remember them. That was until about two years ago when the daughter of one of my mother's friends was the victim of a spiked drink. She's a very sensible girl and doesn't indulge in ridiculous drunken antics. Although she's sociable, she's not really a drinker. A wild night of boozing for her would be to have a second drink, but most of the time when she's out she doesn't drink at all. One night when out with friends she remembers talking to some guy. The next thing she remembered was waking up in a laneway in a state of partial undress. Tests confirm that she had been raped, but thankfully (her words, not mine) she has no recollection of her ordeal. She's a tough girl who has got on with her life and hasn't let this incident ruin her life, but not everyone has that fortitude.

It's truly appalling that some guy will go to the trouble of obtaining drugs with the sole intention of raping some unsuspecting woman. Hell, for probably not that much more money he could have procured himself a prostitute if that's all he wanted, but I suspect with guys like that simple sex isn't enough, there has to be an edge or an element of domination about the act. Whether this guy is ever caught is anyone's guess, but I'd like to think that he'll get his just desserts at the hands of his 25 stone cellmate in Mountjoy some day.

GirlInterrupted · 10-09-2008 09:00PM

I'm about 99pc certain that I had a glass of wine spiked about a year ago. A much older neighbour, a divorced man in his fifties, with whom I'd exchanged a few words occasionally, called to my apartment one night with a bottle of wine and a story about decorators in his flat, and basically he asked if he could sit in mine for an hour while the paint fumes cleared.

He insisted on opening the wine and asked me to get two glasses, which I did. I was feeling a bit uncomfortable about the situation, but I didn't want to appear rude or unneighbourly. When I came back with the glasses he asked for a napkin, so back I went to the kitchen and when I returned the glasses were poured.

I sat accross the room from him holding my glass and it struck me as I took a sip how fixated he was on watching me drink. We continued to talk about nothing for a few minutes, and then he started to steer the conversation to more intimate matters. At this point I stood up to ask him to leave and was light headed immediately. I guess I realised what had happened, and I went for the hall door. He tried to stop me and was behaving frantically, but I'm tall and strong and I got the door open and shouted for my friend in the apartment accross the hall, luckily she came running out. It could have been very different.

The man in question told my friend I was feeling sick, and pretty much dashed off. At this point I was sinking to the floor and my friend got me to bed, believing I was simply ill. I wasn't talking at this point and slept for about ten hours.

Thats all I remember, and I wish I'd been tested for drugs, but I just didn't believe it happened to me, in my own home, with a man who was old enough to be my father. When reality struck home, it was too late.

I see him often still, and while I'm not frightened, its very upsetting.

LolaDub · 10-09-2008 09:07PM

It strikes me when the reality of the situation sinks in and / or people are recovering from being ill that by then its too late to get tested? Are there any tests you can take a few days after?

fits · 10-09-2008 09:09PM

Two scary stories there. Some people are twisted and sick. No doubt about it.

PrivateEye · 10-09-2008 09:15PM

GirlInterrupted, that's a horrible story :eek:

A girl in my class was spiked one night after we got the results, and I've never seen her in such a state. People will always go 'Oh Alcohol poisining, drank too much' and the sort- but you know yourself what the truth is. To call her a lightweight would be flattering to this girls drinking abilities, so we gathered pretty quickly what had happened. Happened in a very popular (and well run) Dublin night club too. Scary.

Mikel · 10-09-2008 09:36PM

Has even ONE woman tested positive for a date rape drug?
Even allowing for under reporting, small time window etc, you'd still expect some positive tests.
I agree that it is just an abdication of responsibility wilfully reinforced by others who are only two happy to go along with it.
Are you seriously suggesting that guys are buying a big bag of pills with the intention of wasting them on strangers? Come on!
Why has no one ever been caught in the act and arrested?
If comatose women is your thing, it's not as if you'd have to look too hard.

It worries me that so many women say they were 'definitely' spiked because of how they were behaving, a naive attitude to alcohol imo.

I've plenty of experience drinking, i've gone weekends on the beer and not got properly drunk. I've had a quick pint and been locked.
I've had 15 pints and a kebab and woke up grand the next morning, I've had a glass of wine and the hangover from hell.

I've picked fights with gardai which is out of character, i've blown up at people over nothing. I've seen friends of mine take off their clothes and lie in the middle of the dual carraigeway.
All of the symptoms in this thread can be explained by alcohol.

GirlInterrupted · 10-09-2008 09:42PM

Mikel wrote: »

It worries me that so many women say they were 'definitely' spiked because of how they were behaving, a naive attitude to alcohol imo.

Read my post. One SIP of wine.

Your take is undoubtedly true in many cases, but not all.

nomorebadtown · 10-09-2008 09:48PM

Mikel wrote: »

I've had a quick pint and been locked.

This is it. I too have had one, maybe two pints and have been totally pissed while an all night binge hasnt hit me as hard. I'd also love to see the stats you mention above. GirlInterrupted yours is clearly a case of attempted rape. Very glad your mate lived next door.

Moonspell · 10-09-2008 09:49PM

a couple of years ago, a friend of mine got her drink spiked.

A guy offered to pay her a drink and she actually said no and ordered her own. being at the counter with the guy next to her, didn't even see it coming, next thing we know, we had to literally carry her home. she was like a "dead" weight and couldn't remember a thing next day.

LolaDub · 10-09-2008 09:51PM

Mikel wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that guys are buying a big bag of pills with the intention of wasting them on strangers? Come on!

I think that attitude is very disrespectful to the people here. Some maybe can be explained by alcohol not all. I'm amazed that so many people seem to think that the people who spike others drinks are buying the drugs with the intention of giving them away to others to enjoy themselves. They're not. They're getting them with the intention of taking advantage of others and thats where their enjoyment comes from. They're sick and its wrong. Their behaviour should not be condoned because they or others can blame it on alcohol.

Wibbs · 10-09-2008 10:30PM

Mikel wrote: »

All of the symptoms in this thread can be explained by alcohol.

Nope I don't agree. In my misspent youth I've partaken in many a chemical, both legal and otherwise. All behind me etc. Anyhoo.... There is no way, unless you have some weird and variable body chemistry, that one night you could chug 4 drinks and yet the next night one or a half of one has you unconscious amnesiac and out of control. Never gonna happen. Yes people will say "oh a big feed will soak it up" etc. Yes it will affect the absorption rate of the drug, but not to that degree. It's down to dosage and bodyweight and individual metabolism basically and the affect of any drug is going to be pretty consistent around some variables(tiredness, food taken, other drugs in the system). One drink is never gonna have someone that wasted basically.

Elle Victorine · 10-09-2008 11:02PM

In some cases I've seen Mike I would agree with you. SOme people say oh I must have been spiked when clearly they had a night when the bottle hit them harder then they thought. That said most women know the difference between a good nighth and a bad night. And I doubt they see it as a waste. Someone who can stand and fight is harder to control than someone dead to the world.

My cousin was date raped about three years ago. She thought it was just the amount of drink but went straight to get tested just in case because she'd never felt like that before. Tested positive anyway. She was a heavy partier as was her older brother. Neither have touched a drop since so GirlInterrupted I'm glad you got the hell out of there when you did. There are some sick B****rds out there.

Zaph · 10-09-2008 11:11PM

Mikel wrote: »

All of the symptoms in this thread can be explained by alcohol.

I agree, all of the symptoms can be explained by alcohol. But that doesn't mean they were caused by alcohol. Did you read my post above? Before that happened I was naive enough to think that the stories some people were telling were just down to drink. But when I heard what had happened to that girl I realised that spiking really does happen.

Mikel · 10-09-2008 11:19PM

LolaDub wrote: »

I think that attitude is very disrespectful to the people here. Some maybe can be explained by alcohol not all. I'm amazed that so many people seem to think that the people who spike others drinks are buying the drugs with the intention of giving them away to others to enjoy themselves. They're not. They're getting them with the intention of taking advantage of others and thats where their enjoyment comes from. They're sick and its wrong. Their behaviour should not be condoned because they or others can blame it on alcohol.

Who's condoning anything?
Who said they were giving them away to be nice?

They're sick and its wrong.

Ok so we've established you're against it. Who exactly is for it?
It's not disrespectful to point out the rationalisation that goes on.
Everyone seems to agree a % of these stories have alcohol as the culprit, it's only the % we disagree about.

Wibbs wrote:

Nope I don't agree. In my misspent youth I've partaken in many a chemical, both legal and otherwise. All behind me etc. Anyhoo.... There is no way, unless you have some weird and variable body chemistry, that one night you could chug 4 drinks and yet the next night one or a half of one has you unconscious amnesiac and out of control. Never gonna happen. Yes people will say "oh a big feed will soak it up" etc. Yes it will affect the absorption rate of the drug, but not to that degree. It's down to dosage and bodyweight and individual metabolism basically and the affect of any drug is going to be pretty consistent around some variables(tiredness, food taken, other drugs in the system). One drink is never gonna have someone that wasted basically.

I disagree. Alcohol was always my drug, and my circle was full of heavy drinkers. The variability in reactions to alcohol is huge in some cases.
Like I say I've had a skinful and not a bother on me, I've also had a couple and been in the toilets splashing water on my face trying to sober up.
I'm a larger than average male with a larger than average tolerance.
I'd imagine a small woman would be even more variable.

Granted, having one drink and lying on the toilet floor and hanging on for dear life probably doesn't fit into that but most of the stories I've heard do.

Other things to consider. Hygiene in pubs and clubs is terrible.
Beer bottles lie around in dirty yards and cellars for weeks.

Hypothetical situation.
There are rats in the cellar, the bottles are exposed, then stocked in the fridge.
I order one of these bottles and drink it by the neck.
Consequences?
It might not explain all of the stories you hear but maybe some of the puking my guts up after 2 beers ones.

I just don't get how the dynamics of this situation are supposed to work.
I've got a bag of pills, that have cost me how much? (I honestly don't know).
Now I'm going to walk around the bar popping them into girls' drinks, hoping nobody cops me, and then wait for one of them to keel over?
Oh and i have to hope that her friends don't notice her acting weird and either let me take her home or they leave her behind.

Take the story above with the boyfriend who minded the drink.
If you give him the benefit of the doubt and some random guy dropped something in the drink, what would be the point?
If it was the boyfriend, what's the point in that? He's already going home with you anyway.

Who is going to get their kicks knowing that a few hours later you'll be trying to climb out of a taxi?

The whole scenario doesn't ring true to me

nomorebadtown · 10-09-2008 11:19PM

Zaph wrote: »

I agree, all of the symptoms can be explained by alcohol. But that doesn't mean they were caused by alcohol. Did you read my post above? Before that happened I was naive enough to think that the stories some people were telling were just down to drink. But when I heard what had happened to that girl I realised that spiking really does happen.

Yes it does. But not this often. If all the stories on this tread are true, then we have a very serious epidemic of attampted dape rape in this country and there would be far much more of an uproar.

Zaph · 10-09-2008 11:26PM

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Yes it does. But not this often. If all the stories on this tread are true, then we have a very serious epidemic of attampted dape rape in this country and there would be far much more of an uproar.

I have no reason to disbelieve anyone's post on this thread, have you? As I mentioned, it was something that I didn't believe happened until I heard of it happening to someone I know. It's quite possible that it's a lot more prevalent than people are aware of because in a lot of cases people will tend to just "put it down to the drink". There also seems to be very little discussion about it. Like chlamydia, incidences could be increasing at a rapid rate and half the population has never heard of it.

nomorebadtown · 10-09-2008 11:32PM

no reason to disbelieve any one poster and i'm not calling anyone a liar but the fact that the majority of women who have posted on this thread have been on the verge of being raped via having their drink secretly drugged. All have escaped (relatively) unharmed and no evidence was found in any of the cases, nor were there eye witnesses. of course it happens, just not as much as this thread would have one believe.

Nevyn · 10-09-2008 11:36PM

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Yes it does. But not this often. If all the stories on this tread are true, then we have a very serious epidemic of attempted date rape in this country and there would be far much more of an uproar.

Yes but it's not reported and not spoken about and if by reading this thread more women are careful on a night out and avoid it great.

If any of them find themsevles in the situation where they think their drink has been spiked hopefully they will get help and will get tested or if it happens to a friend they will mind them and push them to get tested.

Nevyn · 10-09-2008 11:39PM

nomorebadtown wrote: »

no reason to disbelieve any one poster and i'm not calling anyone a liar but the fact that the majority of women who have posted on this thread have been on the verge of being raped via having their drink secretly drugged. All have escaped (relatively) unharmed and no evidence was found in any of the cases, nor were there eye witnesses. of course it happens, just not as much as this thread would have one believe.

It happened to one of my sisters, it took 3 months for the memories to fade in and it tore her and her life apart, we nearly lost her, took over 3 years to put her life back together.

The Sweeper · 10-09-2008 11:50PM

I don't necessarily believe that everything that gets put in your drink is necessarily a date rape drug. I'm intolerant of most recreational substances to the point that I just never did them in my youth because they just made me sick.

The instance where I thought I had taken something involuntarily, I was drinking red wine. We were at a table near the bar. I was with a large group of my then-boyfriend's workmates. One of them suggested we move to the back of the pub, near the jukebox.

I picked up my coat and my bag and moved to the new table, then came back for my drink, so it had been unattended. I was still only just merry at that point. (And as opposed to the 'I don't drink much, it couldn't have been that' brigade, at the time I was drinking a lot, and had an extremely high tolerance. I know full well how drunk feels. On a scale of 1 - 10, with 1 being sober and 10 being unconscious, when we moved to the other table I would have rated myself at 3 - merry, heading towards VERY merry, shouldn't operate machinery, not about to start a fight or order a kebab.)

That is the last thing I clearly remember. I didn't buy myself another drink after the wine, because I know I didn't have enough money on me and there's no way I managed a trip to the ATM. Someone else could have bought me more drink I suppose.

I have flashes - I remember being in the ladies toilets and some girl trying to help me, because I didn't know where I was. I asked her to help me get home. I remember trying to open the back door of the taxi I was in and seeing the double yellow lines shooting past and the taxi driver shouting at me. I remember feeling relief when I got into my bed.

When I woke up the following morning, I went from nothingness to full wakefulness in what felt like a second. I felt physically fine - no sick stomach. No headache. No hangover. I had a huge feeling of paranoia, and a massively blank memory. I felt a bit panicky, had a big sense of foreboding and was very, very anxious - all things that are completely unlike me.

I wouldn't put it past my then-boyfriend's workmates to have put something in my drink. I'd have been able to taste extra alcohol, but who's to say they used something fancy like ketamine? The way my body reacts to substances that aren't alcohol, they could have dropped anything from an ecstasy tablet to a prescription sleeping tablet to practically anything else - and seeing as the sort of people they were and the sort of person I am, they wouldn't have done it with any desire to rape me. They'd have done it to try and make me look stupid. They'd have had a great kick out of watching me confused, wobbly, unable to look after myself.

Moral: don't go drinking with pricks. That applies on two fronts - they might be the ones to try and hurt you, but if they're not, then they might not be the ones to help you.

nomorebadtown · 10-09-2008 11:54PM

ok thaedydal obviously i'm not disputing your sisters case and my posts are not aimed at trivialising her experiences or those of anyone elese in her circumstances. I'm just having difficulty believeing that date rape (or attemped date rape) is occuring as frequenlty as this thread makes out - there is just so much of the urban legend format in these accounts that i find it difficult no to have my doubts. hope your sister is ok.

Nevyn · 11-09-2008 12:34AM

Ok nomorebadtown what's your knowledge on the figures for reported rape and sexual assulat in this country ?

Do you know what the numbers were for June and July last year ?
Of women who went and reported what had happened to them ?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhcwkfidojmh

03/08/2007 - 11:30:54
More than one woman is raped in Dublin every day, new figures revealed today.

During the month of July, 39 women attended the Sexual Assault and Treatment Unit (SATU) at the city’s Rotunda Hospital, while 31 women were examined there in June.

The figures, compiled by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (DRCC), were released as it emerged fewer than one in 10 sexual assault cases are reported to gardai.

The study, commissioned by the Rape Crisis Network in Ireland (RCNI), also found that 95% of cases reported to gardai will never reach court.

It showed that Ireland has the worst record in Europe when it comes to successfully prosecuting people accused of sex crimes.

Just 13% of RCNI clients reported their rapes to gardai last year, compared with one-fifth of service users in 2004.

Ms Mulkerrins said that women raped by someone they know are also less likely to make a complaint.

“Random acts by strangers make up less than one in five reported rapes,” she continued.

“You are much more likely to be raped by somebody you know whether that’s a partner, ex partner, or somebody within your social complex. For all of us we can consider the difficulties we would have in reporting somebody known to you, your family, your social groups.

“People are much more likely to report strange rapes than report a rape by a known intimate.”

The figures reveal that more women attended the SATU in Dublin last month than the total number of rape convictions across the country last year.

Ellen O’Malley-Dunlop, of DRCC, said the amount of people attending the unit peaks every July, August and over the Christmas period.

“Our figures show that one person attended the unit every day last year, an increase of 20% on the previous year,” she said.

This year ?

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/record-numbers-seek-help-for-rape-1459614.html

Wednesday August 20 2008

JULY set a new monthly record this year for the number of rape victims seeking help, the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre has said.

Dublin RCC volunteers accompanied 32 sex attack victims, both male and female, to the Rotunda Hospital's Sexual Assault Treatment Unit last month.

July/August and Christmas /New Year are the traditional peak seasons for sex attacks, DRCC chief executive Ellen O'Malley-Dunlop, told the Herald.

"July had the highest number this year, but we know that only one in 10 attacks are reported."

Mobiles

Over the past number of summers the centre has seen an increase in the incidents of young men and women being raped or sexually assaulted while celebrating exam results, attending outdoor summer events, or when they are holidaying together abroad, she said.

She urged young people to key the Rape Crisis Centre helpline into their phone, 1 800 77 88 88 and to keep their mobiles charged at all times.

"We have drawn up a checklist to help young people but we also want to warn potential perpetrators that having sexual intercourse with a person without their consent constitutes rape," she said.

The July figure was revealed as gardai renewed their appeal for the public to help find a sex attacker who assaulted a girl in Jacko Park, Swords, at around 3am on Sunday, August 3 last.

Crimestoppers Ireland have offered a €10,000 award for information which will lead to the identification of the male suspect.

He is between 18 and 25 years of age, with dark hair and sallow skin. He was wearing a black baseball cap and a black zipped hoodie when he attacked the girl. The Dublin Rape Crisis Centre said their "prevention" checklist for young people included:

* Look out for each other;
* Do not get separated from your group;
* Keep your drink in your hand at all times;
* Do not accept a drink from someone you have just met;
* Stay in popular places and do not go to remote places;
* Nominate a Designated Minder for each group of 6 (in the same way as Designated Drivers are used);
* Share taxis and lifts;
* If you have to travel alone make sure you have phoned ahead to where you are going and estimate the time of arrival;
* Make sure your mobile is charged at all times.

So we have a 'problem' in this country not just with drugged rape and drugged sexual assult.

When it comes to those who have been drugged and raped/assulated most women don't see the point in reporting as they know they do not remember enough to pick a person out or give a statement and with out that a case will never be took on by the DPP.

nomorebadtown · 11-09-2008 12:40AM

I am just giving an opinion so I will bow to your greater knowledge on the subject.

Mikel · 11-09-2008 12:58AM

70 women presented themselves at the Rotunda, but it doesn't mention how many of them tested positive for date rape drugs.

Dudess · 11-09-2008 01:00AM

I know a girl who had an object left inside her after an assault following her drink being spiked.

A heartbreaking story and she's a mess...

Phototoxin · 11-09-2008 01:25AM

I'm not a woman but crime is of interest to me so...

both times it was chemical and it happened recently to another friend as well.

no offence theyndal but what other method will be used ? its always going to be chemical as oppsoed to what biologial ?? (put anthrax in the drink ?)

So Rohypnol can be detected in the body for up to 72 hours and alas GHB can only be detected for 12, so it is important that people get tested and yes guys get spiked too.

unfortunatly the coppers dont give a f*ck in this country so they wont test. we only have *1* toxicology lab in ireland and they are already very busy and have a HUGE backlog !

The figures, compiled by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (DRCC), were released as it emerged fewer than one in 10 sexual assault cases are reported to gardai.

The study, commissioned by the Rape Crisis Network in Ireland (RCNI), also found that 95% of cases reported to gardai will never reach court.

these are sort of related sort of 'only 1 in 20 work out why hurt myself more by reporting it.

Also as Im sure a lot of people know but most rapists are known to their victims. the whole hollywood serial stalker rapist is rare.
It showed that Ireland has the worst record in Europe when it comes to successfully prosecuting people accused of sex crimes.

the problem with rape and conviction is proof. I have read various reports in the past which suggest different rates of false allegation, however these are laced with bias (eg 4% from feminist groups opposed to ~40% for male-support groups)
Additionally with all the different kinks people have its difficult to prove. Tearing only proves 'vigourous activity' as one judge I met put it. skin etc is going to transfer anyway and I have a friend who likes to use her nails on her BF.

I think date rape is insidious and cowardly. Even the name is appalling - 'date' rape - makes it sound more trivial. Rape is rape.

However the best method is to watch your drink ALL the time, or realise that the female unriny system isn't that complicated that it requires multiple females to operate so don't all go to the loo at the same time... some stay and watch the drinks.

Also in 'normal' rape, if possible fight, most people who fight get away (of course a knife at your neck or gun to the head means that you haven't got many choices)

cuckoo · 11-09-2008 01:48AM

I think people should keep an eye on anything they plan to ingest, be it a sandwich at a picnic surrounded at ants, or a drink in a pub (broken glass can sometimes end up in the ice bucket).

However, and i'm not trivialising anyone's experience, 'drink spike' does seem to have replaced 'dodgy kebab' as the new cover story for excess.

And....i think there can be an element of hype around this issue that is targeted at women in an insidious way to remind us of the continual danger of the outside world, and that we are at risk of being unwitting victims where so ever we turn. Really, with the marauding packs of men out there scoring drugs to incapitate us we should never leave the house, and should doubly defo never enter a pub.

The issue of under-reporting, and low level of succesful prosecution, of rapes and sexual assault is a different issue from that of drink spiking.

Can anyone point to evidence of a successful prosecution of a sexual assault linked to drink spiking?

Maybe i'm a little wary around this whole issue due to my own experience, i was once accused of spiking a drink (male friend, looooooong story).

Futurecrook · 11-09-2008 02:53AM

I used to be rather doubtful of people saying their drinks were spiked but I'm pretty sure it happened to me. I'm not saying it was a date rape drug, I was just at a party with a lot of jerks who I'd say would have thought it was funny to put something in my drink.

Anyway, the party's a blur. Practically a non existent memory. I remember getting there. I remember waking up in my bed the next day. I was perfectly willing to put it down to me drinking too much but one of my best friends told me the next day that I only drank two cans.

Apparently about halfway through the night I was really drunk (or so my friends thought at the time). They tried to ask me if I was ok but I couldn't speak, I couldn't stand up properly either. They decided to bring me home but I couldn't walk so they put me in a taxi and brought me back to my friends house where I spent a few hours throwing up. It's scary to think of what situation I could have ended up in if my friends weren't there to look after me. Even if it was just the two cans I drank I was in no fit state to look after myself which is a scary situation to be in.

I think a lot of women, particularly young girls, just don't think of these kind of dangers when they're out. Which is completely understandable when you're out for the night to have fun.

Mr. Incognito · 11-09-2008 09:47AM

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Madame Razz · 11-09-2008 09:56AM

SetantaL wrote: »

Sorry if this is off topic but mood needs to be lightenened.

ITs funny cos its true!! There isn't a woman alive whose head isn't messed with by white wine!!

On a soberer(no pun intended) note, this may be of interest:

www.ott.ie

Have you ever had your drink spiked ?

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