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'Moors Murderer' Myra Hindley used to promote London Olympics in 2012

135

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭gogglebok


    RichMc70 wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure the 'Moors Murders' happened somewhere near Manchester in the North of England and I don't see any relevance to London that being the case.

    It's not a clip of the Moors murders, though. It's a shot of a painting in a major London gallery. Just as Dali's Crucifixion in the Prado could be taken to represent Madrid rather than Judaea.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 858 ✭✭✭RichMc70


    gogglebok wrote: »
    It's not a clip of the Moors murders, though. It's a shot of a painting in a major London gallery. Just as Dali's Crucifixion in the Prado could be taken to represent Madrid rather than Judaea.

    Fair point although I still think they should have had the 'Teenage Hoodie Gangs' perform some kind of reinactment battle at the Birds Nest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭gogglebok


    RichMc70 wrote: »
    Fair point although I still think they should have had the 'Teenage Hoodie Gangs' perform some kind of reinactment battle at the Birds Nest.

    You're right, it's a huge waste of resources. Four thousand of those ****ers flowing across Tower Bridge would have woken the world up.

    Or maybe they could have done some classic English literature? A Hoodie Wuthering Heights would have been simply lovely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Scram


    Silverfish wrote: »
    RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE



    It wasn't 'used to promote' London, it was a brief shot of a painting in a London gallery.

    But HYSTERIA IS MUCH MORE FUN RAR RAR RAR.



    sigh.

    Daily Mail Deadline, i bet:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    dresden8 wrote: »
    So instead of doing pictures that people find repulsive they should stick to bowls of fruit. Good to see we agree.

    Picasso did some interesting still life, perhaps Guernica was a little insensitive of him though?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Ok, what if there was. Would it be artistic, thought provoking and gain iconic status?
    No, because it would feature children or a child being abused. The portrait of Myra Hindley features nobody being abused.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Dudess wrote: »
    No, because it would feature children or a child being abused. The portrait of Myra Hindley features nobody being abused.

    It just features an abuser. You might see the difference, I don't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    There's still a difference between the two types of image - the face of a person, even an evil one (and for the record, I don't believe Hindley was evil, I think Brady was but had enormous control over her. The reason there's more focus on her though is because she was a woman), is of course different to a picture of someone abusing a child or children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Dudess wrote: »
    The reason there's more focus on her though is because she was a woman

    No, the real reason for the focus on her is that Lord Longford kept a decades long campaign for her release. Even after all that she had done. I don't remember anybody calling for the release of Brady.
    and his campaign for Hindley continued even after she admitted to two more murders in 1986

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Longford

    Surely a case of shooting yourself in the foot. And yes, I hate quoting Wiki. But even it's reliable in the well known sh1t.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Myra_at_John_Kilbride%27s_grave.jpg

    How iconic is this picture. It's surely cooler than Boris talking about table tennis.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    By mid-1963, Brady had lost interest in bank robberies and was now intent on becoming a murderer for his own sexual gratification. Together, Brady and Hindley took part in the abduction, sexual abuse, torture, and murder of five children between July 1963 and October 1965.

    Maybe they should have flash framed this phrase as a symbol of western civilisation during the swap over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Pauline Reade
    Their first victim was 16-year-old Pauline Reade (born 18 February 1947), a neighbour of Hindley's, who disappeared on her way to a dance in Crumpsall on 12 July 1963. She got into a car with Hindley while Brady secretly followed behind on his motorbike. When the van reached Saddleworth Moor, Hindley stopped the van and got out before asking Reade to help her find a missing glove in exchange for some records. They were busy "searching" the moors when Brady pounced on Reade and fractured her skull with a shovel. He then raped her before slitting her throat with a knife; her spinal cord was severed and she was almost decapitated. Brady then buried her body in a grave only three feet deep. It was not discovered until 1 July 1987, shortly before the 24th anniversary of her death.[1]


    [edit] John Kilbride
    On November 23, 1963, Brady and Hindley struck again. The victim was 12-year-old John Kilbride (born 15 May 1951). When he was approached by Hindley at a market in Ashton-under-Lyne, Kilbride agreed to go with her to help carry some boxes. Brady was sitting in the back of Ford Anglia car that Hindley had hired. When they reached the moors, he took the child with him while Hindley waited in the car. On the moor, Brady subjected Kilbride to a sexual assault and attempted to slit his throat with a six-inch serrated blade, but failed; Brady strangled him with a piece of string (possibly a shoelace) and buried his body in a shallow grave. His body was found there nearly two years later, on 21 October 1965. The body was clothed but the jeans and underpants that he had been wearing were pulled down to mid-thigh and the underpants appeared to be knotted at the back. Kilbride's body was by then severely decomposed and he was identified by his clothing.[2]


    [edit] Keith Bennett
    The third victim was 12-year-old Keith Bennett (born 12 June 1952) who vanished on his way to his grandmother's house in Gorton on June 16, 1964 - four days after his 12th birthday. Bennett accepted a lift from Hindley near Stockport Road in Longsight. She drove to Saddleworth Moor and asked him to help search for a lost glove. Brady then lured Bennett into a ravine, where he strangled him with a piece of string before burying his body. Hindley stood above the ravine and watched the murder. Hindley later confessed that she had destroyed the photographs taken at the site of this particular murder, that had been kept at Brady's workplace at Millwards. Hindley had access to these photographs during the four days between Brady's arrest and her own in October 1965.

    On 18 November 1986, Brady and Hindley confessed to Bennett's murder and that of Pauline Reade. A renewed search effort in 1987 saw both Brady and Hindley visit the Moors under police guard in effort to locate his grave, but the search was unsuccessful and his body has never been found. Ian Brady has said that if he is allowed to die he will point out where the boy is buried.


    [edit] Lesley Ann Downey
    Brady then lured Bennett into a ravine, where he strangled him with a piece of string before burying his body. Hindley stood above the ravine and watched the murder. Hindley maintained that she went to draw a bath for the child, and found the girl dead (presumably killed by Brady) when she returned to the room. However, during their trial more than a year later, Brady made a telling slip of the tongue while being cross-examined, telling the prosecutor that "we all got dressed" after the tape had been made, which suggests that Hindley was also actively involved in the sexual molestation of the child, and perhaps the physical killing as well. The following morning, Brady and Hindley drove Downey's body to Saddleworth Moor where she was buried in a shallow grave. When it was found on 16 October 1965, the body was still identifiable and Lesley's mother Ann West later made the official identification in a mortuary, though she also had to listen to the audio recording of her daughter's voice to confirm her identity.[3]


    [edit] Edward Evans
    The fifth and final victim was 17-year-old Edward Evans (born 1948). Brady met him at Manchester Central Station on 6 October 1965, and invited him to 16 Wardle Brook Avenue and hacked to death with an axe. Brady claimed that Evans was a homosexual (although his family denied these allegations), and on meeting him at Manchester Central Railway Station invited him back to 16 Wardle Brook Avenue with promises of sexual activity. It remains uncertain whether Evans was actually a homosexual or if Brady was merely attempting to impugn the young man's character (homosexuality was still illegal in Britain at the time). The crime was witnessed by Hindley's brother-in-law David Smith, who had married Myra's younger sister Maureen in August 1964. Brady and Hindley had apparently staged the murder as part of Smith's initiation into their killing confederacy. The Hindley family had not approved of Maureen's marriage to Smith, since he was known to many in Gorton as a thug and had already acquired several convictions in the juvenile courts for violent offences.

    Throughout the previous year, Brady had been cultivating a friendship with Smith who copied a quotation from the Marquis de Sade into his diary: "Rape is not a crime, it is a state of mind. Murder is a hobby and a supreme pleasure".

    Hindley had invited Smith to the house on the evening of 6 October 1965 on the pretext that Brady had wanted to give him some miniature wine bottles. Smith was waiting in the kitchen when he suddenly heard a loud scream from the adjacent living room as Hindley shouted for him to go and "help Ian". Smith entered the room to find Brady in a murderous frenzy, repeatedly striking Edwards with the flat of an axe before throttling him with a length of electrical cord. Smith was then asked to help clean up the blood and bits of bone and brain in the living room, and help carry the body to the spare room upstairs and wrap it in a polythene bag trussed up with rope. Fearing for his own life, Smith made an effort to maintain his composure as best as possible and complied. In the months before this murder, Smith had refused to believe Brady's claims of carrying out several murders and disposing the bodies on the moors, and had told Brady he was talking rubbish.

    Sorry, what part of
    They were busy "searching" the moors when Brady pounced on Reade and fractured her skull with a shovel. He then raped her before slitting her throat with a knife; her spinal cord was severed and she was almost decapitated.

    Is iconic or funny?
    The victim was 12-year-old John Kilbride (born 15 May 1951). When he was approached by Hindley at a market in Ashton-under-Lyne, Kilbride agreed to go with her to help carry some boxes. Brady was sitting in the back of Ford Anglia car that Hindley had hired. When they reached the moors, he took the child with him while Hindley waited in the car. On the moor, Brady subjected Kilbride to a sexual assault and attempted to slit his throat with a six-inch serrated blade, but failed; Brady strangled him with a piece of string

    Ho ho, the laughs just keep on coming.
    Brady then lured Bennett into a ravine, where he strangled him with a piece of string before burying his body. Hindley stood above the ravine and watched the murder.

    Asking for it.
    Hindley stood above the ravine and watched the murder. Hindley maintained that she went to draw a bath for the child, and found the girl dead (presumably killed by Brady) when she returned to the room. However, during their trial more than a year later, Brady made a telling slip of the tongue while being cross-examined, telling the prosecutor that "we all got dressed" after the tape had been made, which suggests that Hindley was also actively involved in the sexual molestation of the child, and perhaps the physical killing as well. The following morning, Brady and Hindley drove Downey's body to Saddleworth Moor where she was buried in a shallow grave

    Iconic.
    When it was found on 16 October 1965, the body was still identifiable and Lesley's mother Ann West later made the official identification in a mortuary, though she also had to listen to the audio recording of her daughter's voice to confirm her identity

    Thought provoking. Like, what's it like to hear your child tortured to death. Seminal. Or something.
    On November 23, 1963, Brady and Hindley struck again. The victim was 12-year-old John Kilbride (born 15 May 1951). When he was approached by Hindley at a market in Ashton-under-Lyne, Kilbride agreed to go with her to help carry some boxes. Brady was sitting in the back of Ford Anglia car that Hindley had hired. When they reached the moors, he took the child with him while Hindley waited in the car. On the moor, Brady subjected Kilbride to a sexual assault and attempted to slit his throat with a six-inch serrated blade, but failed; Brady strangled him with a piece of string (possibly a shoelace) and buried his body in a shallow grave. His body was found there nearly two years later, on 21 October 1965. The body was clothed but the jeans and underpants that he had been wearing were pulled down to mid-thigh and the underpants appeared to be knotted at the back. Kilbride's body was by then severely decomposed and he was identified by his clothing.[2]

    Homo. He deserved it.

    No you're right. I am unreasonable. She is an iconic cultural figure that represents the modern era.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    Surely to show a picture of Blair would be worse, he did kill far more people than Hindley when he sent all those troops to Iraq.


    Plus she's dead so nobody cares


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    The sixteen-minute tape contains the voices of Brady and Hindley relentlessly cajoling and threatening the child as they try to photograph her. Downey is heard crying, retching, screaming, and begging to be allowed to return home safely to her mother

    Surely one for You've been framed. Oh the sheer joy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Oh for ****'s sake, the woman and that particular image of her is an integral part of modern British history now - acknowledging that is not the same as finding what she and Brady did funny. Why have you decided to thrown that in? That's just a really cheap shot.

    And it's not Hindley or what she did that's iconic, it's the image...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    Dudess wrote: »
    Oh for ****'s sake, the woman and that particular image of her is an integral part of modern British history now - acknowledging that is not the same as finding what she and Brady did funny. Why have you decided to thrown that in? That's just a really cheap shot.

    And it's not Hindley or what she did that's iconic, it's the image...
    And it is an Iconic image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Dudess wrote: »
    Oh for ****'s sake, the woman and that particular image of her is an integral part of modern British history now - acknowledging that is not the same as finding what she and Brady did funny. Why have you decided to thrown that in? That's just a really cheap shot.

    And it's not Hindley or what she did that's iconic, it's the image...

    No. For a lot of people Hindley is what she did. Saying you can divorce the image from the reality is the problem.

    Can you divorce Huntley from what he did? Can you divorce images of Maddie as a happy child from her buried in a shallow grave somewhere in Portugal. Is the best you have to hope for her is that she has been used by a Belgian paedophile ring for the last year. Can you consider that a good outcome? Are cops the world round hoping they will find Madeleine on a child sex tape?

    That's why the picture of Hindley is wrong. You can't divorce this scum from what they have done. It's never art.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Ok, that's your opinion. Fair enough. Why you had to bring in the insinuation that people found the Moors Murders funny (pretty insulting actually) is beyond me though...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Dudess wrote: »
    Ok, that's your opinion. Fair enough. Why you had to bring in the insinuation that people found the Moors Murders funny (pretty insulting actually) is beyond me though...

    Posts numbered

    8
    9
    13
    15
    20 (possibly, no link working)
    32
    34
    47
    52
    53 (possibly, I have no idea what that meant)
    60
    63
    64
    74


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    Dudess wrote: »
    Ok, that's your opinion. Fair enough. Why you had to bring in the insinuation that people found the Moors Murders funny (pretty insulting actually) is beyond me though...
    There is a place for that kind of humour


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/group.php?groupid=39&pp=10&page=3


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    dresden8 wrote: »
    It just features an abuser. You might see the difference, I don't.

    I don't see how a mugshot of Myra Hindley, or anyone, can be considered offensive in and of itself. Hindley and her crimes are offensive, naturally, but her picture is just a photograph. Surely it's the context in which the image is used that determines whether it's offensive.

    If a friend hung it on his living-room wall I would be offended by it. If I saw it on a t-shirt accompanied by some cheap ironic slogan I would find it offensive. I'm cynical about how the tabloids have used it to sell papers over the years. I could imagine been offended by a supposed artistic representation of it if I felt that what she had done was being made light of. I haven't seen the painting in question here but I can also imagine an artist using this image in a respectful way and saying something worthwhile.

    What do you think is fair use of this picture? Is it ever acceptable for artists to attempt to tackle this subject at all in any medium?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    RGDATA! wrote: »
    I'm cynical about how the tabloids have used it to sell papers over the years.
    Good point. I've no doubt that image adorned page 1 of the 10 million copies of the Sun that sold when she died, or when she was diagnosed with cancer, or when she admitted she hadn't been completely truthful back in about 1987. And not just The Sun - all the other red top rags, as well as the Daily Mail and Daily Express. And all the Sunday muck...
    dresden8 wrote: »
    53 (possibly, I have no idea what that meant)
    A satirical commentary on the hysteria and self righteousness of the conservative press in relation to the painting in question and how this gave its painter far more publicity than he could ever have dreamed of - as well as the gross misinterpretation of said painting, which is the representation of a criminal, nothing more. It's not celebrating or trivialising what she did.

    As for the other posts you mentioned (including HouseHippo's Blair one, even though she appears to be agreeing with you, or at least playing devil's advocate), how the hell are they having a laugh at the horror Brady and Hindley put those children and their families through? Some of the comments don't even have anything to do with this thread. Just because people don't go all solemn and po-faced doesn't mean they're making light of those terrible events. The jibes are in relation to the hysteria by the gutter press regarding this story, not the Moors Murders themselves...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    Dudess wrote: »
    Good point. I've no doubt that image adorned page 1 of the 10 million copies of the Sun that sold when she died, or when she was diagnosed with cancer, or when she admitted she hadn't been completely truthful back in about 1987. And not just The Sun - all the other red top rags, as well as the Daily Mail and Daily Express. And all the Sunday muck...

    A satirical commentary on the hysteria and self righteousness of the conservative press in relation to the painting in question and how this gave its painter far more publicity than he could ever have dreamed of - as well as the gross misinterpretation of said painting, which is the representation of a criminal, nothing more. It's not celebrating or trivialising what she did.

    As for the other posts you mentioned (including HouseHippo's Blair one, even though she appears to be agreeing with you, or at least playing devil's advocate), how the hell are they having a laugh at the horror Brady and Hindley put those children and their families through? Some of the comments don't even have anything to do with this thread. Just because people don't go all solemn and po-faced doesn't mean they're making light of those terrible events. The jibes are in relation to the hysteria by the gutter press regarding this story, not the Moors Murders themselves...
    I was having a laugh in fact about the hysteria of the masses, it's not like they used a video tape fo Hindley abusing and murdering children, It's a poxy photograph.

    I don't find murder funny at all but this is AH so you need to learn how to have a sense of humour dresden


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I wonder did the Sun express its outrage on a page before or after its regular photo of a teenager with her tits hanging out...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    Dudess wrote: »
    I wonder did the Sun express its outrage on a page before or after its regular photo of a teenager with her tits hanging out...
    +1


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    eh Dresden, have you actually seen the painting in question, unfortunatley it was vandalised by some Numpty with the same B/W worldview as yerself not long after itr went on display, I think they have fixed it again.

    its about 6 foot tall and the 'pixels' are actually childrens handprints, as a piece of Art it does its job, it makes you sit back and think about what it means and how it was done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    dresden8 wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Myra_at_John_Kilbride%27s_grave.jpg

    How iconic is this picture. It's surely cooler than Boris talking about table tennis.

    You put me in mind of the people that firebomb abortion clinics to 'save lives'.

    So far - the images that you have conjured up ('jizz on her face') and the above picture (as you make it apparent where it is) are far worse than the actual portrait you're fulminating against.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    oh man. great thread.

    the tags are so anal. Is it art or is it iconic?

    Myra was a hideous sado sexual child killer.

    The tit ( and I use the term in an ironic way ) who commisioned and approved the piece is a plonker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    CDfm wrote: »
    Myra was a hideous sado sexual child killer.
    No she wasn't, Brady was. Sure she assisted him, but that doesn't make her the same as him.
    The tit ( and I use the term in an ironic way ) who commisioned and approved the piece is a plonker.
    Why?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    CDfm wrote: »
    The tit ( and I use the term in an ironic way ) who commisioned and approved the piece is a plonker.

    It could have been worse....


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