Lads Holiday - Did he cheat?

MagicMarker · 21-08-2008 05:59PM

What kind of 30 year old goes on a lads holiday to Marbella? I thought that carry on was for leaving cert students!

OP, you don't trust him, you're insecure, you actively searched on bebo to see if he had an account.

You have issues.

By all means ask your bf if he cheated, if/when he says no, you need to forget about it and start working on your insecurities.

LegacyUser · 21-08-2008 06:03PM

Regardless of whether he cheated or not, theres no trust in this relationship. OP, there is no (happy/secure) future in this relationship for you, IMO.

Wagon · 21-08-2008 06:10PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

What kind of 30 year old goes on a lads holiday to Marbella? I thought that carry on was for leaving cert students!

Better than Dublin.

MIN2511 · 21-08-2008 06:14PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

That doesn't mean she should ask him. Women need to bury their crazy side.

Unfortunately in the OP's case she can't bury this situation and if it's bugging her i think she needs clarity:)

OP, when are you meeting your bf? Ask him about the trip...

Rosita · 21-08-2008 06:45PM

tobiesheba wrote: »

Firstly I'd imagine your BF's friend wouldn't have left a public comment on his Bebo if your BF had cheated on you while on holidays.

Also for all you know this friend may have agenda... Maybe one of your BF's Bebo friends is an ex and he wants her to know he got some... There are dozens of explanations and in my opinion your boyfriend cheating on you is way down on the list.

Not everything you read on Bebo is gospel, far from it you need to remember that.

I'm not so sure about your dismissal of bebo. Yes it is full of crap, but people do tend to have their guard down when putting things up there and may reveal more truth than you'd imagine. That doesn't make it gospel but it seems unlikely that someone would go to the trouble of covering up in the way that they might if asked a straight question by a friend's girlfriend.

As for the boyfriend cheating being "way down the list" - it must be an interesting list.

In my experience, generally the simplest explanation is most situations is the most reliable one and with that in mind the OP's suspicions appear to be raised by the explanation that would be top of any rational list not designed simply to cover someone's ass.

Yes, it is easy to construct dozens of increasingly bizarre the-cat-ate-my-homework-type explanations for the bebo message which might vaguely pass muster on a dicussion board here in a devil's advocate kind of way. But it is risible to seriously suggest such things to someone directly affected as if they are plausible and should put her mind at rest.

Yes, of course it is easy to evade rational discussion by dimissing the OP as a "bunny boiler" (zero marks for originality anyway) and talking about her "insecurities". None of this makes her any wiser as to what happened in Marbella and perhaps her "insecurities" are well founded?

It still goes back to what the friend meant by "I told you we'd tear it up...girls just wanna have fun" (maybe he's just a big Cindy Lauper fan - hey that's really plausible, nothing to worry about) and what the balance of probability assumption would be about 10 lads away in a place like that especially if one of them is blowing his trumpet on another one's (secret) bebo page.

It doesn't appear likely to me that the one whose bebo page he would target for his boasts afterwards would be the choir-boy of the group. It seems more likely that it was a message aimed at someone who understood precisely the message.

Then again, it's maybe just my female unreasonableness and irrationality. It was probably some ex-girlfriend's third cousin twice removed trying to get back at him, and he probably spent the week in a convent! It's unreasonable how suspicious us girls are really

pookie82 · 21-08-2008 08:48PM

I don't think that the bebo message necessarily means he cheated but it's pretty ambiguous in my eyes. The WE'D tear it up bit would have me thinking.....

And I don't understand the absolute lambasting she's getting for being worried. Some of you are in perfect relationships where you never have cause to even dream that your OH would have their head turned in a moment of weakness/drunkenness/holiday carelessness and that's great. But there's no need to turn around and go "gooooooood, I'd HAAAAAATE to be in a relationship with some of the girls on here if that's how they think" etc. It's really nice that you're secure and would settle for nothing less in a partner. But not everyone is like that. Some of us embrace the fact that humans are humans. You've never heard of anyone cheating who's been madly in love and really regrets it and can't forgive themselves???? being in love and trusting someone doesn't mean it won't happen. it means you choose to believe it won't. Don't persecute someone for having doubts.

Someone made the comment that they'd be seriously pissed off if their OH asked if they'd cheated while on hols. Why???? You're outraged he/she didn't trust you implicitly?? Is he/she human??? Do they have moments of weakness?? If my boyf went off on a sun holiday with a gang of women hungry mates to a resort full of hot scimpily clad women of course I'd consider him being tempted enough to cheat with a hottie - not because I'm hideously insecure but because I realise that he's human. I don't think that that's a serious crime - I think it's being rather realistic really. And before anyone asks we're very much in love and in a long term relationship but it doesn't mean that neither of us will NEVER stray. Life isn't that black and white.

If I went on a girls hol and my boyfriend asked me if I'd cheated when I came home I wouldn't be outraged at all - I'd just answer him yes or no. I wouldn't persecute him for thinking about it. Just like I don't think the OP should be persecuted for thinking about it. They're only going out six months and he's off on a mad lads hol where the general consensus was obviously to ride and drink as much as possible amongst the lads. it doesn't mean he DID anything, but it does mean the thought of him possibly cheating entered her head. Big deal.

OP I would just ask him straight out. Only you can decide if you'll accept his answer. By the way he prob didn't tell you he had a bebo page cos you were telling him how childish/stupid they are!!!

Dragan · 22-08-2008 09:49AM

pookie82 wrote: »

You've never heard of anyone cheating who's been madly in love and really regrets it and can't forgive themselves????

We clearly have very different definitions of love.

Fysh · 22-08-2008 02:40PM

It's clear to me that two people who are in no way connected to the incident discussing human nature and whether "most men cheat" is going to produce a delineated and final answer for the OP, who was wise to ask a bunch of strangers on the net whether her partner cheated on her while abroad.

Human nature encompasses every behavioural pattern from Ed Gein to Mother Theresa. Without knowing the guy or the situation, there's realistically nothing we can do about it. About the only thing the OP can do that's going to have a constructive effect is to sit down and examine her relationship and whatever issues she has that lead her to assume he must have cheated or being waiting for the chance to cheat.

Jack B. Badd · 22-08-2008 02:46PM

Rosita wrote: »

Clearly the bebo message does imply that he cheated.

The friend's message says:

"I'm still in a heap from the hoilday, must be from all the riding!" - But this does not expressly say that "the riding" was done exclusively by this guy. The only exclusive information claimed is that he is wrecked.

More tellingly perhaps and this has been largely ignored is when he writes:
"Told you we'd tear it up over there no bother. Girls just wanna have fun!"

Why does the "tearing it up" and girls wanting to have fun suddenly become plural?

Only the chap's lawyer could seriously argue that that the message is not deeply suggestive.

Getting away from the message, knowing human nature does anyone seriously think that 10 lads are going to go away to a flesh-pot and behave like eunochs?

Ah, the Schrodinger's Cock Theory; whereby if my boyfriend hasn't conclusively proved that he hasn't cheated on me, he has obviously cheated on me with all women...simultaneously.

OP, the fact that he hasn't told you that he has a Bebo page (which is relatively unused, as you've admitted) is a non-issue, as is the comment from his mate suggesting that the mate got laid and they all had a good time of it. The issues are, as people have previously pointed out, that you have little or no trust in him and it would appear spent a week obsessing about what he was doing because he wasn't with you. Then it appears you snooped about online to find out whether or not you could find any evidence as to whether he had cheated on you.

Personally, if I came home from a holiday with my mates, girls or guys, and my boyfriend asked me if I had cheated on him I'd be wondering why the hell I was in a relationship where my SO had so little trust in me. Asking him if he cheated will probably come across as badly as accusing him. You need to sort out your trust issues, for your sake as well as his.

John Mason · 22-08-2008 02:49PM

why did he clearly cheat?

may be his friend done loads of riding and was just bragging

no trust = no relationship.

oh the bebo thing, i didnt think i had a page until people kept giving out to me for not adding them. i joined it when it first started and complete forgot about it but again this bring you the circle to the lack of trust means lack of relationship

Rosita · 22-08-2008 03:43PM

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

Ah, the Schrodinger's Cock Theory; whereby if my boyfriend hasn't conclusively proved that he hasn't cheated on me, he has obviously cheated on me with all women...simultaneously.

The issues are, as people have previously pointed out, that you have little or no trust in him and it would appear spent a week obsessing about what he was doing because he wasn't with you. Then it appears you snooped about online to find out whether or not you could find any evidence as to whether he had cheated on you.

Personally, if I came home from a holiday with my mates, girls or guys, and my boyfriend asked me if I had cheated on him I'd be wondering why the hell I was in a relationship where my SO had so little trust in me. Asking him if he cheated will probably come across as badly as accusing him. You need to sort out your trust issues, for your sake as well as his.

It's remarkable the way a view that the circumstances are suggestive suddenly develops in an accusation that they guy is riding every woman on the planet!

The issue is whether the guy cheated or not, it's as simple as that. If the OP has general "trust issues" they may well be with good reason........who knows. We don't have that information.

But from the information we do have I'd say there's a reasonable case for specific trust issues in this case. That's is not to say he cheated but let's say it's unlikely the comment on the bebo site would be made in front of the OP.

Certainly the ultra-defensive stuff coming from people who are implying that all of this is the OP's fault for not blindly trusting and never asking the obvious question is laughable. Similarly, comments about 'snooping around' are a joke and perhaps deliberately miss the point. Most nefarious activity in history has been uncovered because people were prepared to snoop around. If the bebo site had not been concealed in the first place (if it was so low-key and rarely used how come his friend knew about it but his girlfriend didn't?) then no snooping would have been necessary.

It is fair to assume that the OP is a reasonable person with reasonable tolerance of normal behaviour. But a 30 year old single man can go to a Spanish resort with nine other males, have his friend write utterly juvenile cliched and suggestive remarks on a bebo site after they come home, and yet it is out of order to have even the teensiest suspicion that he might have played away? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.:rolleyes:

jacool · 22-08-2008 03:51PM

iblamebebo wrote: »

I put his surname in, it's an unusual name,

I think you don't want to marry him because you will then have an unusual name too, and this is why you are looking for a way out.

Wibbs · 22-08-2008 03:57PM

jacool read the charter especially the bit about off topic posts. Only warning.

humanji · 22-08-2008 03:58PM

OP, the message gives no indication that your OH cheated at all. You can twist what it says to mean he cheated. You can twist what he says to mean he's a big Cindy Lauper fan. You can twist it to mean anything. If it really is eating at you then ask him. But don't be surprised at the result. He may be none to happy that you were snooping after him and he may be none to happy with been accused of cheating. It's possible he cheated and it's possible he didn't. Don't jump to conclusions based on a message you don't fully understand. There could be plenty of in-jokes that you're not party to, in it.

For those with seeming contempt for mankind, going away on holiday with a bunch of guys doesn't automatically mean that you're heading off to shag anything that moves. Everyone is different, and generalisations are pointless.

Rosita · 22-08-2008 03:59PM

Dragan wrote: »

If i stand in a room with 9 rapist i'm not there to rape someone.

If i stand in a room with 9 drunk lads looking to get laid it sure as **** doesn't mean i am.

It would be unusual company for such a paragon of virtue to be keeping though, wouldn't it?

If someone is in a room where a gang-rape takes place they will have more of a case to answer than if they are a hundred miles away sipping a tequilla by the beach at the time.

If someone is in a place where a piss-up is taking place the possibly that they may take a tiny tincture at some stage might be greater than if they were at the local retreat house for the weekend while everyone else is in the pub. This is how reasonable assessment would have it.

Of course you are going down the beyond-reasonable-doubt-and-then-some burden of proof which is the most water-tight defence, as she probably cannot ever prove he played away.

But as far as I am aware we are not talking about proof here. We are talking about reasonable grounds for suspicion and I think they are there. How the OP moves it on from here is another matter but she is not behaving unreasonably.

Rosita · 22-08-2008 04:13PM

humanji wrote: »

OP, the message gives no indication that your OH cheated at all. You can twist what it says to mean he cheated. You can twist what he says to mean he's a big Cindy Lauper fan. You can twist it to mean anything. If it really is eating at you then ask him. But don't be surprised at the result. He may be none to happy that you were snooping after him and he may be none to happy with been accused of cheating. It's possible he cheated and it's possible he didn't. Don't jump to conclusions based on a message you don't fully understand. There could be plenty of in-jokes that you're not party to, in it.

For those with seeming contempt for mankind, going away on holiday with a bunch of guys doesn't automatically mean that you're heading off to shag anything that moves. Everyone is different, and generalisations are pointless.

You can certainly twist things as we have seen here, but the fact still remians that some explanations may be more plausible than others.

Nobody has suggested that he automatically shagged anything that moved merely because he went away - why people feel the need to exaggerate is beyond me.

It is the evidence since the got back that has raised that suspicion.

Fysh · 22-08-2008 04:15PM

Rosita wrote: »

It would be unusual company for such a paragon of virtue to be keeping though, wouldn't it?

If someone is in a room where a gang-rape takes place they will have more of a case to answer than if they are a hundred miles away sipping a tequilla by the beach at the time.

If someone is in a place where a piss-up is taking place the possibly that they may take a tiny tincture at some stage might be greater than if they were at the local retreat house for the weekend while everyone else is in the pub. This is how reasonable assessment would have it.

Of course you are going down the beyond-reasonable-doubt-and-then-some burden of proof which is the most water-tight defence, as she probably cannot ever prove he played away.

But as far as I am aware we are not talking about proof here. We are talking about reasonable grounds for suspicion and I think they are there. How the OP moves it on from here is another matter but she is not behaving unreasonably.

You're basically saying that no man can possibly ever keep it in his pants unless he's on a leash and constant supervision. And, well, if that's your perspective on it then there's not a whole lot People From The Internet are going to be able to do to change that.

I will point out that one individual (or even several individuals) having had enough bad experiences with men being unfaithful is not the same thing as all men being inherently unfaithful (cue someone trying to bring up arguments based on "biological imperatives" and such). Most of us try to make our decisions based on the statistical evidence of behaviour we've seen for ourselves and I'd say that anyone with an opinion of men in general as dim as yours appears to be should either avoid any relationships with them or make a radical change to the kind of men they interact with.

humanji · 22-08-2008 04:21PM

What evidence? Her boyfriends friend said he was having sex. We don't even know he was being serious. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the boyfriend cheated.

cheater · 22-08-2008 04:32PM

I've experienced a similar kind of situation first hand. Recently a group of us from our soccer club went on a trip to Cardiff, I had a girlfriend at the time. We were gone from the Friday and the Sunday, I knew all about her insecurities before I went, so I made an effort to text her once or maybe twice a day, just to let her know how I was getting on etc. (I didn't ring her)

Anyway, weekend away was great craic and I arrived home, was texting one of my mates and he said "Man we'l avta go bk to cardiff sometime, it was sum laff, the women wer stunnin".. My girlfriend took my phone as she often did and read through some of my messages, came across this message and immediately alarm bells rang inside her head that I had cheated. She didn't confront me immediately however she refused to talk properly to me for a few days etc.

After these few days were up I met with her in town and she confronted me as to whether or not I had cheated. I can tell you straight out I was pissed off. I told her I didn't but (if she didn't trust me to be faithful, why would she trust me that I'm telling the truth) so she still had her doubts, anyways after a week or two of reassuring her, I couldn't deal with her paranoia any longer and we parted company. In hindsight she never trusted me and was a real jaelous type, I'm glad we've parted ways now. I can't deal with that kind of thing.

Anyway, in relation to the OP, why will asking him make any difference? As I said previously if you don't trust him to be faithful how are you going to trust that he's telling you the truth? You sound like a very insecure, controlling person. I say controlling because you said that you don't like him hanging around with these kinds of people, they are his friends, you can't tell him who to and who not to hang around with? I think you should relax about this and sort out your insecurity issues.

Anyway I hope everything works out for you and ye live happily ever after. If you do confront him let us know how it goes:pac:

P.S. Ignore my username..turns out it's just a little inappropriate for this thread

RossFixxxed · 22-08-2008 04:38PM

Maybe he was just being a great wingman?

Maybe he got up and danced to 'Girls just wanna have fun' like a mad fool?

Maybe his mate got lucky and is boasting?

r

Rosita · 22-08-2008 05:02PM

Fysh wrote: »

You're basically saying that no man can possibly ever keep it in his pants unless he's on a leash and constant supervision.

I find it amazing that you can draw that inference from what I just wrote.

I never mentioned 'all men' nor did I mention 'my man'. I simply said that in this case I think the possible suspicions of the OP in the cirucmstances as we know them are not as unreasonable as they are being painted.

Rosita · 22-08-2008 05:13PM

humanji wrote: »

What evidence? Her boyfriends friend said he was having sex. We don't even know he was being serious. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the boyfriend cheated.

What evidence? The message on the bebo site, after it went on about being tired from riding, said "I told you we'd tear it up, girls just wanna have fun".

Now it'd take a pretty naive person not to have suspicions raised by that comment. And that's all we are talking about - reasonable suspicion. How the OP processes that suspicion is her own business.

Yes, of course, it is possible that the friend was not being serious and that it was a coded refernce to a card game they had with some nuns at a convent they visited.

Possible..........just not very likely I would say.

As I said before I tend to find simple and obvious explanations the most reliable in such situations.

It should be said that just because the OP can be predictably dismissed as paranoic and controlling does not give us any evidence of what happened in Spain either.

homerjay2005 · 22-08-2008 05:28PM

that bebo message means f*ck all to be honest.

Rosita · 22-08-2008 06:06PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that bebo message means f*ck all to be honest.

Surely only the writer of the message can say that?

pookie82 · 22-08-2008 06:10PM

Dragan wrote: »

We clearly have very different definitions of love.

Yes, mine's realistic. It allows for human weakness, an error in judgement, a stupid moment, a very regrettable mistake. Yours expects nothing less than implicit trust that your OH will behave at all times like a paragon of loyalty. And that's great. But don't expect all of us to leave aside all room for human error in our evaluation of our partners.

I think Rosita speaks a lot of sense.

pookie82 · 22-08-2008 06:24PM

Rosita wrote: »

It should be said that just because the OP can be predictably dismissed as paranoic and controlling does not give us any evidence of what happened in Spain either.

To be honest any girl who ever comes on here with suspicions about a guy's antics, be it seeing an ex or fooling around, there's a barrage of guys just dying to accuse her of being a paranoid psychotic maniac who deserves to be alone. You'll regularly get the whole "god if I were with you your ass would be DUMPED!!!". IMO they take it too far. They have no idea what the guy in question has put them through or what he's guilty of. There was a thread on here a while back by a girl who found her boyf's secret face book account, clearly set up to accommodate communication with an ex who it eventually appeared he was meeting up with and chatting to on msn constantly behind the girlf's back. (One who'd also offered him sex just to top it off). He then did the classic of blaming the girlf's insecurity's for him having to hide his horribly disloyal actions. Yet all the girl got was hassle from guys telling her to respect his privacy and leave him be etc.

It's unbelievable. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence they may have for a guy being unfaithful or whatever he's up to - they're told to butt out and have implicit trust in all he says and does. it's silly. How many people would still be in relationships where their partner was cheating if they butted out of texts, ignored warning signs and unquestionably trusted him no matter what the evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that the evidence in this particular case is infinitely damning but in general, the "trust your OH and don't ever ask questions" mafia come into play in any problem like this on here.

Jack B. Badd · 22-08-2008 06:52PM

pookie82 wrote: »

It's unbelievable. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence they may have for a guy being unfaithful or whatever he's up to

In this case, none.

pookie82 · 22-08-2008 07:25PM

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

In this case, none.

A bit further down the paragraph I did assert that in this case, the evidence isn't that damning. It does depend on your perspective though. His use of the word "we" means that the BF can't be completely ruled out of cheating. It doesn't mean he did it, but it doesn't clear him either. I'm just confused as to why guys bebo/text a mate to say "aw man can't wait to get back to --- the chicks were savage we really lived it up" etc if that mate didn't cheat, is in a committed relationship, and won't be rushing back for the women anytime soon. If one of my mates texted me after a hol and said "Jesus lets go back there asap the lads were hot and mad for it!!!!" I'd be really confused if she knew I was in a relationship and had no intention of cheating, yet was encouraging me to get back over to the hot and easy guys over there as soon as I could.

Anyway, my overall point is that whether the evidence is or it isn't damning there's an instantaneous knee jerk reaction from some in PI to just tell the girl to trust her boyf or she "doesn't deserve to be with him and would be dumped if she were with them". No one wants to acknowledge that it's an exceptionally trustworthy or exceptionally naive person who never questions the odd suspicious comment.

Karen_* · 22-08-2008 10:42PM

If the OP was married and her husband went off on a lads holiday with a load of single blokes would she then be still insecure for it "occuring" to her that he might get pissed and be unfaithful? Is it ever ok to be anything less than 100% secure in your every thought and deed?

Well it would have occured to me in her position that something might go on. And that hardly makes me certifiable. Just a little unsure and maybe a bit insecure. I'm human. So is the OP. Ok she's absolutely convinced herself that something did based on the flimsiest of evidence. But maybe there's more to it. Maybe she doesn't feel 100% sure that he wouldn't cheat because as has been pointed out, its in the early stages of the relationship and not rock solid.

humanji · 22-08-2008 11:37PM

Rosita wrote: »

What evidence? The message on the bebo site, after it went on about being tired from riding, said "I told you we'd tear it up, girls just wanna have fun".

You're the only person I've ever heard of who associates "tear it up" with sex. From that I can only get that they went with the aim of letting lose and having fun. The "girls just wanna have fun" line just alludes back to the friend shagging. To be honest, if I was the OP I'd worry more about my BF hanging around with him because he sounds like a twat, but that's just me.

Rosita wrote: »

Now it'd take a pretty naive person not to have suspicions raised by that comment. And that's all we are talking about - reasonable suspicion. How the OP processes that suspicion is her own business.

You spoke earlier about the obvious explanation. The most obvious and simple explanation is that nothing happened. By taking alternative meanings to the message left, then you get a hint of possibly cheating.

As you say, it is the OP'd business how she interprets it, and it's obvious that she has reservations, or else she wouldn't of posted here. To be honest, she's on a loser, as I see it. If the boyfriend cheated he'll either admit it and cause a serious strain on the relationship, or deny it which will also cause a strain (he'll probably be paranoid that she'll find out, since she already was snooping after him, and she won't know if she can trust him). If he didn't cheat, she may still not believe him and he may be pissed that she doesn't trust him. And since the relationship is fairly young, some guys may hear alarm bells going off and get the hell out of there.

pookie82 wrote:

Yours expects nothing less than implicit trust that your OH will behave at all times like a paragon of loyalty.

Or as some would call it, a "Loving Relationship".

To be honest any girl who ever comes on here with suspicions about a guy's antics, be it seeing an ex or fooling around, there's a barrage of guys just dying to accuse her of being a paranoid psychotic maniac who deserves to be alone.

Equally, you'll get the "all men are cheating bastards" brigade calling for his balls to be cut off. The OP is getting both ends of the spectrum and many more in between. They wanted advice and opinions and it'd be pointless for her to only get them from one angle.

OP, take all advice on here with a pinch of salt. In the end it's up to you as to what you do, just be aware of all the possibilities and the repercussions of your actions.

Lads Holiday - Did he cheat?

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