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Kevin Myers: Risible lies about immigrants no substitute for honest debate

245

Comments

  • #32
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    It is not every question that deserves an answer.


    fine. So if they've nothing to contribute, why do they post at all?


  • #33
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    It is not every question that deserves an answer.

    That is the single most ignorant thing I've ever heard.

    I don't care who it was that wrote the article, the points that were brought up are at least worthy of debate. IMO, there is an immigation problem of sorts, but as a previous poster said, don't hate the people that come in (would you like to live in the hell-holes they're coming from?), hate the system itself.


  • #34
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    BroomBurner wrote: »
    That is the single most ignorant thing I've ever heard.

    Actually, that is an ancient proverb, and it one of the most enlightened statements I know. Correctly translated it means that not every retard with a voice deserves to have his opinion respected. Simple.


  • #35
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Actually, that is an ancient proverb, and it one of the most enlightened statements I know. Correctly translated it means that not every retard with a voice deserves to have his opinion respected. Simple.

    You're missing the point. If you don't want to debate the issue that the original poster posted, then keep out of the thread. Simple.

    Btw, if that is "one of the most enlightened statements (you) know", you should get out and read some more.


  • #36
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Tom10 wrote: »
    The majority of Nigerians who arrive in Ireland are asylum seakers..

    There are flights/boats coming here direct from Nigeria ????:confused:

    that's news to me


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  • #37
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    BroomBurner wrote: »
    You're missing the point. If you don't want to debate the issue that the original poster posted, then keep out of the thread. Simple.

    Btw, if that is "one of the most enlightened statements (you) know", you should get out and read some more.

    I prefer to read indoors, outside is too noisy. And as the statement says, if you dont like my assertions, you dont have to respect them, do you? Myers and his fascist buddies are always quick to point to statistics which back up their agenda (He tries to sneakly imply that 'Nigerians' are somehow racially lazy, or that we only attract lazy Nigerians?), but they never offer solutions. Its because they dont have the balls to follow through. Its much easier to whinge on some sensationalist rag than get up and do something about it. That is why I have no respect for him.


  • #38
    Wreck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    Stekelly wrote: »
    A counter arguement that doesnt just slag Kevin Myers and label everyone that agrees with an immigration policy a racist would be both new to boards and at least a bit interesting.

    There is no counter-argument because Myers does not have any argument in the first place. He leaps from the fact that 18.6% of Nigerians in this country are claiming rent allowance to the outlandish allegation that
    a majority of Nigerians are not economically active at all
    This in turn is followed by the malicious insinuation that they are
    living off the state
    Now whatever about the facts (I've looked at the report and can't find the 18.6%), the conclusions simply don't follow from the premise.

    The underlying theme of the piece is that we are too afraid to discuss immigration and it's possible impact on society. This is obviously not the case. It is surely one of the most discussed political subjects of the past few years - workplace, pubs, taxi's and in the media it is constantly debated and discussed. Surely the fact that such a report on the 2006 census was commissioned and published shows that we as a a society are not ignoring the effects and problems of immigration in this country. But Myers wants to promote the view that we are ignoring the issues for fear of being called names by some liberal hippy pc-loving minority.


  • #39
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    uberwolf wrote: »
    Myers says we're afraid to talk about this issue. Only one person who disagreed with his viewpoint actually argued the case and not the man. The rest proved his point by burying their heads in the sand and attacking Myers.

    If there is one 'journalist' in this country who deserves nothing but condemnation and rejection its Kevin Myers. The man's 'arguments' are invariably cliched, superficial and sensationalist. He is a 'journalist' along the same lines of the dude who picks the page three girls in the sun.

    Full stop, Europe needs immigrants if we want any kind of healthy economic outlook.


  • #40
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    uberwolf wrote: »
    Myers says we're afraid to talk about this issue. Only one person who disagreed with his viewpoint actually argued the case and not the man. The rest proved his point by burying their heads in the sand and attacking Myers.

    Myers is a professional **** stirrer who knows damn well that the majority of Nigerians here have no legal means of income. In the absence of work permits how exactly are they expected to pay for housing, or perhaps they should just be thrown onto the streets?

    Many/some Nigerians are economic migrants making use of the asylum mechanisms, some are legitimate asylum seekers, and the only means of establishing their claims are to investigate them. It's the governments choice to refuse a right to work during that investigation process, so why blame the rent allowance recipient for a situation that isn't of their making?

    Myers is right insofar as most clear-thing people refuse to play his sort of scapegoating game by paying any attention to him... and long may that ship sail.


  • #41
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Orizio wrote: »

    Full stop, Europe needs immigrants if we want any kind of future economic healthy outlook.

    Refugees leave their countries becuase they have nothing. Real refugees are generally the downtrodden in the particular society . Why exactly do we "need" those people? There doesnt seem to be any shortage of hardworkign economic migrants. We could just as easliy give more money to our own native freeloaders if we want rid of some cash.


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  • #42
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    alastair wrote: »
    Many/some Nigerians are economic migrants making use of the asylum mechanisms, some are legitimate asylum seekers,

    Please explain how that can be possible when there are no direct flights from Nigeria to Ireland.


  • #43
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I love how people some how come to the conclusion that debate on immigration isn't happening, after posting an article discussing exactly that from a major Irish newspaper. Beggers belief how people come to such a conclusion.


  • #44
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    marcsignal wrote: »
    Please explain how that can be possible when there are no direct flights from Nigeria to Ireland.

    Never underestimate the power of a man with a dinghy and an oar. :D


  • #45
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    bravestarr082 wrote: »
    The clear message he sends out from his article is 'ship them back to wence they came and slam the door behind them. Which to me is a pretty ludicrous view to have...

    I disagree.

    He could have been talking about anything or any group of people. The message I got was we're unable to seperate the issue from the person.

    For example, recently on boards.ie I wrote a post (and a number of pleasant posts after it) saying very camp gays, i.e. queens, annoy me. I was called a homophobe and a retard, and my posts were deleted.

    I find this utterly retarded as my issue was my dislike of fake people. It had nothing to do with their sexuality, but rather their persona.

    It's basic stupidity that people have to bring every issue back to the race or sexuality of the person.

    If Myers replaced "Nigeria" with "Galway" there would be a consensus that there are quite a lot of people from Galway who are spongers or lazy.

    The fact that Nigerians are black is not the issue.


  • #46
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Meh, I've no problem saying immigration has to be controlled or there'll be problems, and I've said it a number of times here. I'm not too "afraid" or too "PC" (yawn) to say it.

    It's just that I don't assume every single non EU immgrant is a sponger. Some of them aren't you know...


  • #47
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Firstly I said immigrants, not refugees.

    Secondly, although Ireland right now may not need more immigrants or refugees, the majority of European countries are entering a disastrous situation where we will have too many old people(too early) on pensions and too few young men/women being produced to make up a healthy labour market, particurly in comparison to China and the US. And if this is a problem in France or Germany, then its a problem for Ireland as the EU's prosperity and strength is essential for Ireland's econmic well being.

    As I said, immigrants are the future of Europe.


  • #48
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    I dont see how people from Nigeria could be lazy, when the very idea of a homogenous Nigeria is vague to say the very least. Its unedumacated bigotry at its finest.


  • #49
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    marcsignal wrote: »
    Please explain how that can be possible when there are no direct flights from Nigeria to Ireland.

    Oh wise up. An asylum seeker presenting themselves in Ireland is entitled to due process of investigation. That many Nigerians successfully attain asylum here should tell you something about the legal necessity for direct flights.


  • #50
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Dudess wrote: »
    Meh, I've no problem saying immigration has to be controlled or there'll be problems, and I've said it a number of times here. I'm not too "afraid" or too "PC" (yawn) to say it.

    It's just that I don't assume every single non EU immgrant is a sponger. Some of them aren't you know...

    Nobody said there doesn't have to be controls on, or there will be problems with, immigration. The essential problem with Myers is his generalisations and conclusions, usually backed up with nothing other then random facts and spacious arguments.


  • #51
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Never underestimate the power of a man with a dinghy and an oar. :D

    Very True, because it's the only way any Nigerian asylum claim in Ireland could be legitimate, and consequently Nigeria should clean up at rowing in the olympics if that's how they actually get here :D
    alastair wrote: »
    Oh wise up. An asylum seeker presenting themselves in Ireland is entitled to due process of investigation. That many Nigerians successfully attain asylum here should tell you something about the legal necessity for direct flights.

    so why don't they claim asylum in Spain or Italy ? might it have something to do with what's on offer here by comparison ? and the fact you could sail a fully laden aircraft carrier through the loopholes in our non-existant mickey mouse policy ?


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  • #52
    DUMBOBLONDE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭DUMBOBLONDE


    You are all missing the point. What is it with the Irishman, try to look at things from a different angle.

    What if this immigration was intentionally planned to cause just these problems???????????????

    You cannot flood a country with immigrants from culturally different backgrounds and not have a significant fallout.

    Contrary to popular opinion. the upper level government is peopled by some of the best minds in the country. They know what will happen when various policies are implemented. You see they are globalists, and have been for a long time. They are not out to look after the interests of the average Paddy.


  • #53
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    I dont see how people from Nigeria could be lazy, when the very idea of a homogenous Nigeria is vague to say the very least. Its unedumacated bigotry at its finest.

    They definitely have a culture of fraud, or at least are way more accepting of it, so I think the amount of social welfare claims is more about fraud than laziness.

    They're a different culture in a different country though. I'm sure if we (Irish) went to Nigeria we'd be doing things which piss them off too.

    It'll be interesting to see how the next generation of Nigerian-Irish kids turn out.


  • #54
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    There hasn't been a 'flood'(charming word to use btw).

    Whats the 'significant fallout'? Oh and what have you to back up your conspiracy theory that the government is in fact out to destroy the 'average paddy' though immigration? :rolleyes:


  • #55
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    They definitely have a culture of fraud, or at least are way more accepting of it, so I think the amount of social welfare claims is more about fraud than laziness.

    They're a different culture in a different country though. I'm sure if we (Irish) went to Nigeria we'd be doing things which piss them off too.

    It'll be interesting to see how the next generation of Nigerian-Irish kids turn out.

    So are you suggesting that Nigeria is one homogenous culture, which accepts fraud as a way of life?


  • #56
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    They definitely have a culture of fraud, or at least are way more accepting of it, so I think the amount of social welfare claims is more about fraud than laziness.

    They're a different culture in a different country though. I'm sure if we (Irish) went to Nigeria we'd be doing things which piss them off too.

    It'll be interesting to see how the next generation of Nigerian-Irish kids turn out.

    Prove it.

    A government being corrupt does not make a people corrupt, or more imprtantly it does not make the Nigerian people accepting of fraud and corruption as moral or ethical, just as a neccessary way of life.


  • #57
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    wes wrote: »
    I love how people some how come to the conclusion that debate on immigration isn't happening, after posting an article discussing exactly that from a major Irish newspaper. Beggers belief how people come to such a conclusion.

    The dogs in the streets and on boards may be talking about it but the government certainly isn't. So they let things slide and don't plan.

    But then we knew that already.

    Mike.


  • #58
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    So are you suggesting that Nigeria is one homogenous culture, which accepts fraud as a way of life?

    Eh... that's a bit extreme, isn't it?

    There is a reason Nigeria is associated with fraud. It is not a race issue.

    Nigeria is famous within Africa for fraud. It is not an issue confined to white people.
    Orizio wrote: »
    Prove it.

    Couldn't be bothered. Search on Google.

    Btw, saying fraud is a necessary way of life is retarded.


  • #59
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    AARRRGH wrote: »

    Couldn't be bothered. Search on Google.

    Translation: I'm talking through my arse.


  • #60
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    alastair wrote: »
    Oh wise up. An asylum seeker presenting themselves in Ireland is entitled to due process of investigation. That many Nigerians successfully attain asylum here should tell you something about the legal necessity for direct flights.

    Thy have to seek asylum in the furst eu country they land. If they have enough money to be picking and choosing different routes to fly to get to particular countries then they are not refugeses imo. A person in actual fear of their life as so many claim gets the hell out of dodge the quickest way possible to the first available place.


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  • #61
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Orizio wrote: »
    Translation: I'm talking through my arse.

    Prove it.

    Do you see what I did there? Yes, it's retarded to make people search for official documentation to back up everything they say.

    Can I ask you a question?

    Are you able to seperate someone's action from their race?

    If so, why are you defending the statistics that show Nigerians claim a lot more social welfare benefits than people from the EU?

    Is it that you think the statistics are wrong, or that you think the statistics must have been made by a racist person? Or is it because you love defending the black man because it makes you feel good about yourself?

    Seriously, I'd like to know. :)


This discussion has been closed.
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