Qs on the high/low bar position in the squat

maradona10 · 31-07-2008 09:05PM #1

I've been reading starting strength and seen that the low bar position is recommended over the high bar position for the squat.

I have been using the high bar position but cannot get into the low position due to poor flexibility. I find it difficult to get a close grip on the bar and it doesnt feel secure at all with the thumb on top of the bar.

Rippetoe doesnt provide stretches in his book so can anyone advise on how to go about changing over to this technique and could they recommend stretches that would improve shoulder flexibility?

Also why do olympic plates have to be used for the deadlift? What difference does it make what height the bar is off the ground for deadlifts?

Thanks

rubadub · 31-07-2008 09:38PM

http://stronglifts.com/squat-bar-position/

lifting a lower bar is much harder and possibly more likely for injury. I put cushions under my plate to raise and protect the floor, I have thought of making wooden fake plates with flat bottoms, so they would always swing down low and raise it.

Hanley · 01-08-2008 12:15AM

For me, getting used to low bar was just a case of grinning and bearing it. Alot of people try to play the bar TOO low straight off the bat. If you need to take your grip out a bit to make it more comfortable then do so.

Shoulder dislocates with a broom handle are absolutely awesome for shoulder flexibility. I do them before every squat and bench session and I can squat low bar with my hands pretty much touching my shoulders.

maradona10 · 01-08-2008 09:30AM

thanks lads

do either of you know if the high position puts more compression on the back

Hanley · 01-08-2008 10:32AM

maradona10 wrote: »

thanks lads

do either of you know if the high position puts more compression on the back

Depends how high you have it. If it's right up on your neck it could do damage, but if it's across the top of your traps you should be fine.

maradona10 · 01-08-2008 09:56PM

i realised ive been doing all the lifts wrong but im not clear on some things in the book. can anyone help with these questions?

when squating using the low position is the back tilted forward slightly or is it straight? why does the bar have to be taken out of the rack at mid sternum level in the squat and the press. can it be taken out higher?

how can a tight back be maintained when doing the bench press? ive been trying this by setting it before i lie on the bench like he said but once i reach for the bar i lose all tightness

when i do the press my elbows are below the bar. are there any problems with continuing this way? i find it unnatural using his method with the elbows in front

also are there other stretches for the whole body that are on a par with shoulder dislocations for effectiveness? i do stretch but im not sure if im doing more harm than good

thanks again

AlphaMale 3OO · 02-08-2008 09:33AM

A good method I found was to extend my shoulder blades as a sort of 'shelf' and to rest the bar on this shelf during squats. it also helps in keeping the upper body tight.

Mikel · 02-08-2008 02:37PM

maradona10 wrote: »

i realised ive been doing all the lifts wrong but im not clear on some things in the book. can anyone help with these questions?

when squating using the low position is the back tilted forward slightly or is it straight? why does the bar have to be taken out of the rack at mid sternum level in the squat and the press. can it be taken out higher?

how can a tight back be maintained when doing the bench press? ive been trying this by setting it before i lie on the bench like he said but once i reach for the bar i lose all tightness

when i do the press my elbows are below the bar. are there any problems with continuing this way? i find it unnatural using his method with the elbows in front

also are there other stretches for the whole body that are on a par with shoulder dislocations for effectiveness? i do stretch but im not sure if im doing more harm than good

thanks again

search for rippetoe on youtube, will answer a lot of your questions.
I don't think having the bar low on squats vs high is an injury issue, i think it's to do with recruiting the hamstrings

DM-BM · 02-08-2008 04:02PM

maradona10 wrote: »

i realised ive been doing all the lifts wrong but im not clear on some things in the book. can anyone help with these questions?

when squating using the low position is the back tilted forward slightly or is it straight? why does the bar have to be taken out of the rack at mid sternum level in the squat and the press. can it be taken out higher?

how can a tight back be maintained when doing the bench press? ive been trying this by setting it before i lie on the bench like he said but once i reach for the bar i lose all tightness

when i do the press my elbows are below the bar. are there any problems with continuing this way? i find it unnatural using his method with the elbows in front

also are there other stretches for the whole body that are on a par with shoulder dislocations for effectiveness? i do stretch but im not sure if im doing more harm than good

thanks again

Hi, i'm far from an expert , but my understanding of the bar position is that with the bar in the low position, you need to bend over a bit more to keep the bar over the mid foot when your in the bottom position of the squat, your back still needs to be tight , but at a shallower less upright angle.

Racking the bar at sternum height i think is for convenience/ safety, if your tired after a hard set of squats its a lot easier to drop the bar into the rack, than to find its a tad high and struggling to get it in. When taking the bar out of the rack you can bend your knees get under the bar,get your back tight and just stand up. Same for the press, get underit set your grip and stand up.

With the bench press i seem to have the same problem, all i can do is unrack the bar, hold it squees my scapula together, push back with my legs, lower the bar and away we go. But having a spotter must transform this lift, i hate unracking it at this stage.

Having your elbows under the bar, instead of a little in front it can make the lift harder, as it can let the bar drift out in front of you instead of going straight up, i really find it goes up easier with my elbows in front.

I don't know about the stretches.

NotMe · 02-08-2008 05:09PM

DM-BM wrote: »

Hi, i'm far from an expert , but my understanding of the bar position is that with the bar in the low position, you need to bend over a bit more to keep the bar over the mid foot when your in the bottom position of the squat, your back still needs to be tight , but at a shallower less upright angle.

Yeah your back should be straight but not vertical. Don't get the two mixed up. With the low bar you need to lean forward more to keep the bar over the mid foot like DM-BM said. See

In this video Rippetoe mentions the elbows in front of the bar (near the end) and explains it as the bar will move in the direction the forearm is pointing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbswrStK8cs

I find my elbows come back as I push up. So if I start with my elbows in front of the bar, my forearms end up perpendicular to the floor as I get up to forehead level. If I start with elbows directly below the bar, they end up behind the bar as I press up.

maradona10 · 02-08-2008 07:04PM

thanks for those replies lads, they've cleared a few things up for me. still not sure on how you can keep a tight back doing the bench though

Malteaser! · 02-08-2008 07:11PM

maradona10 wrote: »

still not sure on how you can keep a tight back doing the bench though

Hanley has a good way of explaining how to do this, of course I can't think of how to phrase it now.

Hopefully he'll see this later and post!!

brianthebard · 03-08-2008 12:02AM

maradona10 wrote: »

thanks for those replies lads, they've cleared a few things up for me. still not sure on how you can keep a tight back doing the bench though

is the bar racked too high?If you have to fully lock your elbows you should lower it in the rack.Also when benching i used to push up as far as possible,which would lift my shoulders from the bench and mess up my form.Maybe you aren't doing that but check.

Hanley · 03-08-2008 12:42AM

maradona10 wrote: »

thanks for those replies lads, they've cleared a few things up for me. still not sure on how you can keep a tight back doing the bench though

When you say a tight back during the bench, do you mean keeping your shoulder blades pinned as you lift the weight off? Or keeping a tight arch and general tightness all over during the reps?

maradona10 · 03-08-2008 10:17AM

by tight back i mean keeping the shoulder blades together.

going from what brianthebard says i might be lifting my shoulders off the bench also.

the bar is the right position in the rack, its just the minute i reach for it all tightness goes. i cant see how the back can be kept tight while reaching for the bar at the same time

Hanley · 03-08-2008 10:54AM

maradona10 wrote: »

by tight back i mean keeping the shoulder blades together.

going from what brianthebard says i might be lifting my shoulders off the bench also.

the bar is the right position in the rack, its just the minute i reach for it all tightness goes. i cant see how the back can be kept tight while reaching for the bar at the same time

It's not all that hard to do it tbh. If you don't know how to set your shoulders up then do the following...
-Put your arms straight out in front of you
-try and squeeze your shoulder blades together like you're trying to crush someones finger in there
-now shrug your shoulders DOWN (think of pulling your shoulder blades to your hips)
-practice, practice, practice til it becomes second nature, then replicate it on the bench

The only way I can see you losing this position while unracking the bar is cos it's either too high, or you're lifting your shoulders up off the bench. Neither of which is good. It you can confidently state it's DEFINATELY not either of them then you have no excuse and just need to concentrate more while you're unracking the bar!!

maradona10 · 03-08-2008 11:29AM

thanks Hanley, the bar probably is too high. i was presuming it was the right height all along because at full reach my shoulders were more than likely off the bench( hope that makes sense)

its hard to gauge as im training on my own

do you set the shoulders before lying on bench or after

Hanley · 03-08-2008 01:58PM

I usually set my grip on the bar and then pin my shoulders together and pull them down. Then I dig my upper back into the bench. Remember, you sohuld be benching to around your nipple line, so there's no need to have the bar way back behind you in the rack. I usually set up with my eyes/nose under the bar. From there it doesn't even require a press to get it out of the rack, just a pull forward. And I've short arms, so if I can do it, most people should be able to.

The only benches I've had trouble with are the ones in TF Sandyford. It's pretty impossible to get a good set up on them without a spotter to lift the weight off.

maradona10 · 03-08-2008 04:54PM

Ive just finished a session practicing the low bar squat.

the low bar position doesnt feel right at all and I cant handle any weight.

should I continue squating using the high bar position and then practice low bar position after it or should I drop the high bar position altogether. will using the high bar interfere with low bar learning?

Im concerned that if I drop the high bar ill lose any training gains/strength as my poundage in the low bar is non existent

also do I lock the bar with the thumb in the high bar position? this is what i have been doing , just not sure now considering the thumb is placed on top of the bar in the low position

thanks for your help

BrianD3 · 03-08-2008 07:06PM

Re: keeping tight when unracking in the bench, I was also having problems with this. I experimented a bit and found that if moved each hand about 1 inch inwards on the bar, I was able to stay tighter while unracking. I'm still a novice bencher and am still getting the hang of it so I don't get it right every time and the most I've ever benched is 105 kg.

PS I also have difficulty with the low bar squat. I'd say a few sessions focussing on it and i'd be alot more comfortable with it. At the moment I do high bar, narrow stance, ATG, beltless pause squats and find them very comfortable but unsurprisingly I can't move very much weight.

brianthebard · 03-08-2008 11:12PM

Mar,can you create a 'shelf' with your traps to rest the bar on?Afaik thats where it goes for the low bar position.Bring your hands in on the bar as far as possible,at first i found this hard,but gradually managed to move them closer.When learning a new exercise or form it may take a while to adjust,if you went from conventional deads to sumos the same thing would happen,but you wouldn't give up-would you???

Qs on the high/low bar position in the squat

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