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Conversations with god

  • 22-07-2008 01:58PM
    #1
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭


    I was in the book store last night and I spotted this Conversations with God: An Uncommon Dialogue

    This guy Neale Donald Walsch claims he wrote a letter to god and he got a reply, the whole book is a transcription of his conversation, like literally a whole new book with the words of god, what do you make of it ? personally I'd consider him a charlatan , but if you are a very open minded christian is this a book that must be read ?


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Comments

  • #2
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    MooseJam wrote: »
    I was in the book store last night and I spotted this Conversations with God: An Uncommon Dialogue

    This guy Neale Donald Walsch claims he wrote a letter to god and he got a reply, the whole book is a transcription of his conversation, like literally a whole new book with the words of god, what do you make of it ? personally I'd consider him a charlatan , but if you are a very open minded christian is this a book that must be read ?

    If you are an open-minded non-Christian, and don't mind wasting a few euro, then you may well want to buy this book.

    I can't see any Christian, open-minded or otherwise, wanting to spend money on a book that contradicts the Christian faith and the Bible on the basis of what some guy claims is a letter from God.


  • #3
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    PDN wrote: »
    If you are an open-minded non-Christian, and don't mind wasting a few euro, then you may well want to buy this book.

    I can't see any Christian, open-minded or otherwise, wanting to spend money on a book that contradicts the Christian faith and the Bible on the basis of what some guy claims is a letter from God.


    How inconsistant of you;):)


  • #4
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Isn't Jesus supposed to be coming back to earth at some point in the future? Maybe this is a prelude to it.

    Out of interest, why do Christians write off chaps like this almost immediately? What's wrong with this book?


  • #5
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    JimiTime wrote: »
    How inconsistant of you;):)

    I know. I believe in something that Robin and Wicknight reject, so therefore I must be inconsistent if I try to assess anything else in a rational way.


  • #6
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Dave! wrote: »
    Isn't Jesus supposed to be coming back to earth at some point in the future? Maybe this is a prelude to it.

    Out of interest, why do Christians write off chaps like this almost immediately? What's wrong with this book?

    Christians believe in the Bible. This book contradicts the Bible and is based on a lot of stuff from non-Christian religions.


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  • #7
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Thanks for the warning PDN.

    What claims are made that contradict the Bible?


  • #8
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    PDN wrote: »
    Christians believe in the Bible.
    Small point -- christianity requires you to believe the bible rather than believing in the bible. Concrete vs abstract reality and all of that. It's subtle point, but an important one.


  • #9
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    JimiTime wrote: »
    How inconsistant of you;):)

    Not really.

    If PDN had said something like

    Nonsense, it is highly implausible that God wouldn't reveal himself to this author. Think about it

    then yeah, that would be rather inconsistent, considering the New Testament is a revealed book that contradicted the teachings of the original religion it was build upon.

    To dismiss one while accepting another would be rather silly. This book is as plausible as the New Testament (or most religious books). But he is certainly free to decide which one be believes. Which is why Jewish aren't Christians.


  • #10
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    PDN wrote: »
    Christians believe in the Bible. This book contradicts the Bible and is based on a lot of stuff from non-Christian religions.

    If the book did not contradict the Bible and was based on orthodox Christian teachings would you be happy to believe that God really did send a letter back to the author?


  • #11
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Not really.

    If PDN had said something like

    Nonsense, it is highly implausible that God wouldn't reveal himself to this author. Think about it

    then yeah, that would be rather inconsistent, considering the New Testament is a revealed book that contradicted the teachings of the original religion it was build upon.

    To dismiss one while accepting another would be rather silly. This book is as plausible as the New Testament (or most religious books). But he is certainly free to decide which one be believes. Which is why Jewish aren't Christians.

    LOL. Ok WN. Lessons been learnt from other thread, so I wont waste ur time with a meaningful response.


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  • #12
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    MooseJam wrote: »
    I was in the book store last night and I spotted this Conversations with God: An Uncommon Dialogue

    This guy Neale Donald Walsch claims he wrote a letter to god and he got a reply, the whole book is a transcription of his conversation, like literally a whole new book with the words of god, what do you make of it ? personally I'd consider him a charlatan , but if you are a very open minded christian is this a book that must be read ?
    Hello MJ, I haven't read this one but I'll bet it doesn't have a whole lot to say about the enormity of sin and the consequences thereof? I'd bet the reality of Hell is nowhere to be found in this book. I'd be fairly sure too that the book says or implies that all religions lead to God. I would imagine too that it doesn't mention the fact the Jesus is the only way to Heaven and to God.

    There's no shortage of false prophets around these days.


  • #13
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I preferred Father Ted's take on what happens when you write to God.
    AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!! He didn't write back. Feck it anyway!


  • #14
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Interesting. i was reading reviews on amazon and it sounds good. i might give it a read and make up my own mind though. I'd advise some of the others to take their head out of the bible and do some critical thinking of their own too. After all, we were blessed with that weren't we?


  • #15
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    I'd advise some of the others to take their head out of the bible and do some critical thinking of their own too. After all, we were blessed with that weren't we?


    You believe that belief in God equates to a lack of critical thinking?


  • #16
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    JimiTime wrote: »
    You believe that belief in God equates to a lack of critical thinking?

    No, i believe that believing and following the bible equates to a lack of critical thinking. Anyone can believe in a God. He may not be the same as yours though.


  • #17
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    No, i believe that believing and following the bible equates to a lack of critical thinking.

    Why is that then? And could you define critical thinking?


  • #18
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    JimiTime wrote: »
    LOL. Ok WN. Lessons been learnt from other thread, so I wont waste ur time with a meaningful response.

    You will instead waste my time with a non-meaningful response ... ?

    If you are not interested in debate Jimi would it not be easier simply not to post?

    Constantly posting to inform me about how you aren't interested in debating with me is rather silly and just looks like an attempt at point scoring (your points are wrong WK but I'm far far too busy to say why)

    :rolleyes: (just for you cause I know you luv them)


  • #19
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Wicknight wrote: »
    You will instead waste my time with a non-meaningful response ... ?

    Yes.
    If you are not interested in debate Jimi would it not be easier simply not to post?
    Yes.
    Constantly posting to inform me about how you aren't interested in debating with me is rather silly and just looks like an attempt at point scoring (your points are wrong WK but I'm far far too busy to say why)

    I'm really not interested in getting into this with you WN:pac:

    I think I'm 4-2 up in case your counting. First to 10?


  • #20
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    theres the real Jimi I know and love .. you just have just been having a bad day yesterday ... all if forgiven :pac:


  • #21
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Wicknight wrote: »
    theres the real Jimi I know and love

    I never knew you cared. Especially that much:)
    .. you just have just been having a bad day yesterday ...

    Not at all. Just got a bit frustrated that PDN's point was strawmanned and attacked. What started as a simple correction (Which is what I was trying to do), turned into a debate about a claim that wasn't made in the first place. I think you all misunderstood what was being said. I clarified what I had to, and left it there, thinking that it was just going to be a simple clarification of the point. When I seen it was turning into more than that, I decided to opt out. My point had been made. Then come the sarcy eyes, and the rest is history:)

    Anyhoo.......


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  • #22
    amz5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭amz5


    I bought it out of curiosity when I was stuck at the airport for 7 hours last week... I would be slow to write off something of a religious nature just in case, but this was a pile of rubbish. I read a few chapters and gave up. I'm sorry, but I don't know how anyone could read it and make any sense of it.


  • #23
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    Thanks for the warning PDN.

    What claims are made that contradict the Bible?

    1. It exalts feelings and experience above God's Word when it comes to deciding what is good.
    “if you want to know what’s true for you about something, look at how you’re feeling about it . . . hidden in your deepest feelings is your highest truth.”

    “In addition to feelings and thoughts, I also use the vehicle of experience as a grand communicator. And finally, when feelings and thoughts, and experience all fail, I use words.”

    “the supreme irony here is that you have all placed so much importance on the Word of God, and so little on experience ... In fact, you place so little value on experience that when what you experience of God differs from what you’ve heard of God, you automatically discard the experience and own the words, when it should be just the other way around.”

    So, if your feelings and experiences suggest that retaliation against your enemies is better than turning the other cheek - just scrap the words of Jesus.

    If your spouse is injured and deformed in a car accident, and it just 'feels so right' to dump her for the young blond thing next door - hey, just follow your heart instead of all that faithfulness or "till death us do part" junk.

    2. It contradicts the biblical teaching on Satan and hell.
    And so you have created in your mythology the being you call ‘devil.’

    “You have come here to work out an individual plan for your own salvation. Yet salvation does not mean saving yourself from the snares of the devil. There is no such thing as the devil, and hell does not exist.”

    “Of course, a real devil does not exist – but I reply to the idiom you choose.”

    3. It denies the existence of sin.
    “If there were such a thing as sin, this would be it: to allow yourself to become what you are because of the experience of others. This is the ‘sin’ you have committed. All of you.” “You accept that you were born in ‘sin.’ This alleged state of imperfection in which you are said to have come into this world is what your religionists have the gall to call original sin. And it is original sin – but not yours. It is the first sin to be perpetrated upon you by a world which knows nothing of God if it thinks that God would – or could – create anything imperfect. Yet, in order to justify the idea of a punitive God, your religions needed to create something for Me to be angry about. So that even those people who lead exemplary lives need to be saved.”

    4. It teaches reincarnation.
    “This is a big task, taking many lifetimes, for you are wont to rush to judgment, to call a thing ‘wrong’ or ‘bad’ or ‘not enough,’ rather than to bless what you do not choose.”

    “You have had exactly 647 past lives, since you insist on being exact. This is your 648th. You were everything in them. A king, a queen, a serf. A teacher, a student, a master. A male, a female. A warrior, a pacifist. A hero, a coward. A killer, a savior. A sage, a fool. You have been all of it.

    5. It denies the primacy of Jesus Christ and reduces Him to the level of another master or guru.
    “This is what Jesus did. It is the path of the Buddha, the way of Krishna, the walk of every Master who has appeared on the planet. And every Master has likewise the same message: What I am, you are. What I can do, you can do. These things, and more, shall you also do. You say it is difficult to walk the path of Christ, to follow the teachings of the Buddha, to hold the light of Krishna, to be a Master.”

    6. It teaches that we ourselves are God. (probably useful since the author is passing his own thoughts off as a letter from God)
    “My purpose in creating you, My spiritual offspring, was for Me to know Myself as God. I have no way save through you. Thus it can be said that My purpose for you is that you should know yourself as Me.”

    “You are, have always been, and will always be a divine part of the divine whole, a member of the body. That is why the act of rejoining the whole, of returning to God, is called remembrance. Your job on Earth, therefore, is not to learn, but to re-member Who You Are.”

    “Do you want your life to truly ‘take off’? Then change your idea about it. About you. Think, speak, and act as the God You Are.”

    7. It denies that there is any objective truth in the spiritual realm. Instead, all roads lead to God.
    “Allow each soul to walk its path.” “Yet know this: there is no such thing as an incorrect path - for on this journey you cannot ‘not get’ where you are going.”

    8. Since there is no objective truth, nothing is actually right or wrong.
    “There are no ‘shoulds’ or ‘shouldn’ts’ in God’s world. Do what you want to do. Do what reflects you, what re-presents you as a grander version of your Self.”

    “I have never set down a ‘right’ or ‘wrong,’ a ‘do’ or a ‘don’t.’ To do so would be to strip you completely of your greatest gift – the opportunity to do as you please, and experience the results of that; the chance to create yourself anew in the image and likeness of Who You Are.”

    So, for Christians, this book has little or nothing to offer.

    Of course if someone is a non-Christian, they may well agree with much of the stuff in the book, particularly if they are the kind of people who watch Oprah and think inane psychobabble is profound.


  • #24
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    Interesting. i was reading reviews on amazon and it sounds good. i might give it a read and make up my own mind though. I'd advise some of the others to take their head out of the bible and do some critical thinking of their own too. After all, we were blessed with that weren't we?

    Hmm, here we go again. It really is lazy and dishonest to accuse other people of failing to engage in critical thinking because you don't like their conclusions and beliefs.

    An essential part of critical thinking is to assess information by meaningful criteria. Many of us as Christians have examined the claims of the Bible and, by using critical thinking, have concluded that the Bible is a good guide for determining spiritual truth. Therefore, applying critical thinking to someone who claims to have a letter from God will mean measuring his claims against our criteria of the Bible.

    Uncritical thinking, if it can be called 'thinking' at all, would be to simply take this guy's new age literary diarrhea at face value.


  • #25
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Why is that then? And could you define critical thinking?

    Good article about it on wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

    I think it is fairly safe to say someone with beliefs like yourself is not well endowed with critical thinking abilities. Think about it.

    MrP


  • #26
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    PDN wrote: »

    Uncritical thinking, if it can be called 'thinking' at all, would be to simply take this guy's new age literary diarrhea at face value.

    Which is what many people raised as christians do, no? A large percentage haven't even opened a bible. By critical thinking, i mean reading a wide array of litterature. Eg Candide by Voltaire, Pensees by Pascal. Both examples touch on ideas of spirituality and religion. Would it not be better to read these and assess the bible once again with a new frame of mind rather than avoiding them and "critically" reading the bible.


  • #27
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    Which is what many people raised as christians do, no? A large percentage haven't even opened a bible. By critical thinking, i mean reading a wide array of litterature. Eg Candide by Voltaire, Pensees by Pascal. Both examples touch on ideas of spirituality and religion. Would it not be better to read these and assess the bible once again with a new frame of mind rather than avoiding them and "critically" reading the bible.

    People 'raised as Christians' are simply baptized heathens. This forum is for the discussion of Christian beliefs and issues. Plenty of us engage in critical thinking and believe the Bible to be a useful guide in assessing spiritual truth.

    BTW, I read both the works you mention many years ago, so maybe it would be better to forget your stereotypes and stop trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs.


  • #28
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Good article about it on wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

    I think it is fairly safe to say someone with beliefs like yourself is not well endowed with critical thinking abilities. Think about it.

    MrP

    The more he thinks about it, the more he will realise what a bigoted statement you have just made. You are welcome to discuss issues on this forum. Try to do so rather than just being insulting.


  • #29
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    PDN wrote: »
    The more he thinks about it, the more he will realise what a bigoted statement you have just made. You are welcome to discuss issues on this forum. Try to do so rather than just being insulting.
    Perhaps I could have worded my post better. I will try again. I think it is fairly safe to say that someone who chooses to believe what you do, whilst possibly endowed with a phenomenal ability for critical thinking, chooses not to think critically about your own beliefs. That is not to say you do not use critical thinking in other areas of your life, when debating the religious beliefs of a non Christian, for example.

    I hope that is less offensive.

    MrP


  • #30
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Perhaps I could have worded my post better. I will try again. I think it is fairly safe to say that someone who chooses to believe what you do, whilst possibly endowed with a phenomenal ability for critical thinking, chooses not to think critically about your own beliefs. That is not to say you do not use critical thinking in other areas of your life, when debating the religious beliefs of a non Christian, for example.

    I hope that is less offensive.

    MrP

    Less offensive, but still wrong.


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  • #31
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    PDN wrote: »
    Less offensive, but still wrong.
    In your opinion.

    MrP


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