Conversations with god

PDN

MrPudding wrote: »

In your opinion.

We,, in the end everything that gets posted on boards.ie is opinion, so that comment is rather redundant.

I quickly lose respect for any debater who uses the cheap tactic of pretending that their opinion is so clearly right that any disagreement must be due to stupidity, or a lack of critical thinking etc.

In fact I'm probably a bit more aware of it than usual today since last night I was reading an article by William Dembski promoting the concept of Intelligent Design. One of the things that really irritated me was how he accused his opponents of refusing to critically evaluate Darwinism - thereby implying that their opposition to his views was irrational and therefore more easily dismissed or shrugged off. I thought to myself, "Why can't he just address their points? If you want to be taken seriously then at least give credit to the notion that others can think critically about the subject at hand and can come to a different conclusion to you." In fact, I didn't even finish reading his article after that.

Then I come on here and find you and jaffa20 doing exactly the same thing. Accusing those who value the Bible of being unable to think critically, then of being selectively blind in their critical thinking, and advising us to read books (as if this is some great revelation) which I would expect any competent first year undergraduate to have read if they were studying the Philosophy of Religion.

I was not brought up as a Christian. I hold my beliefs on spiritual and religious matters because I have thought critically about these issues, and have reached the conclusions I have because they make more sense to me. Now, you are free to think about the same issues and come to different conclusions to me. If so, then I will happily debate the issues with you and I will show you the courtesy of assuming that you are capable of thinking critically about those matters. If you are unable to return the courtesy then stay out of the forum.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

I quickly lose respect for any debater who uses the cheap tactic of pretending that their opinion is so clearly right that any disagreement must be due to stupidity, or a lack of critical thinking etc.

With enormous respect for your considerable abilities, I feel that I should point out as politely as I can, that you've used this tactic yourself many times.

MrPudding

PDN wrote: »

We,, in the end everything that gets posted on boards.ie is opinion, so that comment is rather redundant.

Very good point.

PDN wrote: »

I quickly lose respect for any debater who uses the cheap tactic of pretending that their opinion is so clearly right that any disagreement must be due to stupidity, or a lack of critical thinking etc.

Fair enough. I was not using it as a cheap tactic, but hey.

PDN wrote: »

Then I come on here and find you and jaffa20 doing exactly the same thing. Accusing those who value the Bible of being unable to think critically, then of being selectively blind in their critical thinking, and advising us to read books (as if this is some great revelation) which I would expect any competent first year undergraduate to have read if they were studying the Philosophy of Religion.

In my defence, I did reword my post. I did not mean to accuse anyone of not being able to think critically, your fine example of dismissing Islam is a masterclass of thinking critically, simply that a lot of christians don’t seem to think critically about their own beliefs. I did not suggest any books to anyone, but I might point out that I think it is unlikely that the majority of christians may not have studied the philosophy of religion and may not be aware of the books.

PDN wrote: »

I was not brought up as a Christian. I hold my beliefs on spiritual and religious matters because I have thought critically about these issues, and have reached the conclusions I have because they make more sense to me.

Super. I am glad that worked out for you. It does not take away form the fact that some posters have not had the same road to belief as you and seem unable to question anything about belief.

PDN wrote: »

Now, you are free to think about the same issues and come to different conclusions to me.

Thank you.

PDN wrote: »

If so, then I will happily debate the issues with you and I will show you the courtesy of assuming that you are capable of thinking critically about those matters. If you are unable to return the courtesy then stay out of the forum.

I will try to bear that in mind in future.

MrP

PDN

robindch wrote: »

With enormous respect for your considerable abilities, I feel that I should point out as politely as I can, that you've used this tactic yourself many times.

I certainly have robustly (sometimes too much so) criticised the arguments or logic of individual posters. If I think a particular argument or line of reasoning is silly or ill-thought then I will say so.

However, I am unaware of ever having made any statement to the effect that everybody that holds a different view is stupid or selectively blind. To which group did I ever issue such a blanket condemnation? Atheists? Catholics? Presbyterians? Creationists?

robindch

PDN wrote: »

However, I am unaware of ever having made any statement to the effect that everybody that holds a different view is stupid or selectively blind. To which group did I ever issue such a blanket condemnation? Atheists? Catholics? Presbyterians? Creationists?

"blanket condemnations?" What hat did you pull that one out of? All I said was that you called people stupid.

Stick to the point, and you'll not be confused

jaffa20

Excuse me for not debating because everytime i debate about religion, it comes to nothing.

Tolerance is the key as everyone will never understand nor respect the beliefs of another.

I wish the moderator would understand that i was not stereotyping christians as non critical thinkers.

I was merely suggesting that christians, except from the moderator of course, should engage in works other than the bible to open their minds to new frames of mind without any disrespect of course.

I ask to be banned from this thread which seems to be going nowhere with of topic posting and quasi derogratory comments of using other people's usernames in messages to make their "point".

Fanny Cradock

jaffa20 wrote: »

I wish the moderator would understand that i was not stereotyping christians as non critical thinkers.

I was merely suggesting that christians ... should engage in works other than the bible to open their minds to new frames of mind...

You do a marvellous job of contradicting yourself in your opening lines. On one hand you say you aren't stereotyping Christians. Fair enough. Yet you then go on to undermine this position when you make the whopping assumption that Christians seek knowledge only from the Bible or are closed to 'new frames of mind'. How you don't consider your latter statement a stereotype of Christians I don't know.



Please make your mind up and we can all move on from your confused and muddled messages.

BrianCalgary

jaffa20 wrote: »

I was merely suggesting that christians, except from the moderator of course, should engage in works other than the bible to open their minds to new frames of mind without any disrespect of course.

The Christians that I know by and large have done engaged in such an exercise and found 'other' frames of mind to be wonting.

The book in question, that PDN has quoted (thanks for that BTW) talks about the importance of experience. Experiences can be learned from but should not direct one's life. It is a philosophy that is very empty and self-centred.