Bottle Digging

Degsy · 07-04-2008 2:10pm #1

Anybody else here interested in this?

Dr Strange · 07-04-2008 2:31pm

Degsy wrote: »

Anybody else here interested in this?

What's that?

Degsy · 07-04-2008 3:17pm

Preusse wrote: »

What's that?

It usually involves researching and locating old (victorian or edwardian) rubbish tips and digging them inorder to find bottles,pot lids,stoneware etc.packaging like this was discarded in huge quantities in days past and a lot of it is still there,just buried.Fairview park in dublin was used as a domestic rubbish dump up to the 1920's and contains millions of bottles!

SpitfireIV · 07-04-2008 4:55pm

Interesting, so, what goodies have ye got?

Myself and my bro came across a 'bottle dump' in a woods near my grans, lots of old, interesting looking bottles, most likely from the local pub, most of the bottles were 1940's to 60's or 70's perhaps, nothing too interesting.

Dr Strange · 07-04-2008 5:28pm

Thanks Degsy. I like the idea of Victorian or Edwardian. Not too much into the more recent stuff.

Would there be chamber pots?

Sorry, had to ask.

Degsy · 08-04-2008 10:13am

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Interesting, so, what goodies have ye got?

Myself and my bro came across a 'bottle dump' in a woods near my grans, lots of old, interesting looking bottles, most likely from the local pub, most of the bottles were 1940's to 60's or 70's perhaps, nothing too interesting.

Dont be so sure,if teh pub pre-dates the 1940's the chances are there's an older dump underneath the one you found.People are creatures of habit and will use the same location as a dump for generations,usually because its in a convenient area.Bring a fork with you some day and have bit of a dig,if you want i'll help out!

Degsy · 08-04-2008 10:24am

Preusse wrote: »

Thanks Degsy. I like the idea of Victorian or Edwardian. Not too much into the more recent stuff.

Would there be chamber pots? Sorry, had to ask.

Well most early bottles were made by hand so they're all different in some way.Modern bottles made with machines (ie after the 1920's) all tend to be identical and as such completely uninteresting.
As for chamber pots..i've yet to see one,they tended not to be thrown out idf they werent broken and were in use up to very recent times(a lot of houses only had outside toilets)!Stoneware hot water bottles are more likely finds though,i've got several!

RoundyMooney · 11-04-2008 12:25am

Very interesting. Is there much of a market for this kind of thing?

Degsy · 11-04-2008 10:51am

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Very interesting. Is there much of a market for this kind of thing?

That depends on a coupe of things.Condition and rarity.Bottles that are chipped,cracked or broken are completely useless,they'll eventually take a knock and break completely.There's also a condition commonly found called "sickness",this is when acids in the soil react with teh glass producing a milky,irididescent surface.This cannot be removed and as such bottles are pretty much ruined.
Rarity:This is probably more important than condition.In victorian times,bottles were manufactured and discarded in the millions,common brands of mineral water for example are dug out in the hundreds and this would severly affect any value.many people wholesale common items to pubs etc for displays almost by the ton.Rare items can command very high prices.Early glass was never clear due to the prescence of impurities b ut coloured glass could be made with the addition of various metals..cobalt for blue or even gold for red.This was expensive and consequently coloured bottles are rarer and more sought after.Off the top of my head,a cobalt blue mineral water bottle could sell for 8000 sterling!

Dr Strange · 11-04-2008 12:24pm

Degsy wrote: »

...Off the top of my head,a cobalt blue mineral water bottle could sell for 8000 sterling!

I think I found a new hobby! :eek:

Degsy · 11-04-2008 1:28pm

Preusse wrote: »

I think I found a new hobby! :eek:

Yes...the reason they're so expensive is that they're as rare as tits on a bullfrog.Herman Goering's underpants rare!

Riamfada · 13-04-2008 12:18am

Could you guys please at least try and catalogue the find location of these things, finds around them, no matter how insignificant and uninteresting? Im not going to give you the talk but please make the effort.

G

Dr Strange · 13-04-2008 7:24am

Degsy wrote: »

Yes...the reason they're so expensive is that they're as rare as tits on a bullfrog.Herman Goering's underpants rare!

Oh dear. That means rare but not collectible? I mean, who wants Hermann's undies?

Degsy · 14-04-2008 10:42am

Grimes wrote: »

Could you guys please at least try and catalogue the find location of these things, finds around them, no matter how insignificant and uninteresting? Im not going to give you the talk but please make the effort.

G

But surely in a former victorian rubbish dump there wouldnt be anything of archeological interest?

kowloon · 14-04-2008 2:53pm

How did you get started in that Degsy?

Degsy · 15-04-2008 11:57am

kowloon wrote: »

How did you get started in that Degsy?

My granny used to have big old victorian house with a laneway at the back that had become overgrown with trees and bushes.I was mooching around one day when i was about ten when i found my first bottle sticking out of the soil.After i'd brought it in to show everybody my g rannytold me that in years past people used to dump bottles there as the binman wouldnt take them.I w ent back with a fork and was soon digging away merrily!

boneless · 17-04-2008 11:55am

Degsy wrote: »

But surely in a former victorian rubbish dump there wouldnt be anything of archeological interest?

As most archaeological finds are discarded or lost, yes; they are of interest. They can help in the identification and dating of objects found on other sites. Say you found an object with a label or marking on it for instance...:)

Degsy · 17-04-2008 5:03pm

boneless wrote: »

As most archaeological finds are discarded or lost, yes; they are of interest. They can help in the identification and dating of objects found on other sites. Say you found an object with a label or marking on it for instance...:)

Yeah but if its an earleir onject found amongst,say victorian rubbish,it lacks any context and was obviously thrown there by chance.Isnt context the important thing?:)

boneless · 22-04-2008 11:30am

Degsy wrote: »

Yeah but if its an earleir onject found amongst,say victorian rubbish,it lacks any context and was obviously thrown there by chance.Isnt context the important thing?:)

Ideally yes. However, to aid in typology any information is important... a date on a label or bottle doesn't really need to be in context....:) an earlier object found in such conditions would be a curiousity I admit but not the exercise in question here.

Edit> Mods... sorry for being a bit pedantic!!

gollyitsolly · 23-04-2008 8:52am

I have 2 milk bottles. One is a 1988 millenium bottle and the other is an Italia 90 world cup.

lighterfox · 25-04-2008 2:45pm

About the milk bottle, i have a friend who still has hers, she would like to know (just for curiosity purposes) how many bottles were made and roughly what kind of price they would get on the market. If you don't know would you be able to point me in the right direction of a web site where i can get above mentioned info!!

gollyitsolly wrote: »

I have 2 milk bottles. One is a 1988 millenium bottle and the other is an Italia 90 world cup.

Degsy · 28-04-2008 5:50pm

lighterfox wrote: »

About the milk bottle, i have a friend who still has hers, she would like to know (just for curiosity purposes) how many bottles were made and roughly what kind of price they would get on the market. If you don't know would you be able to point me in the right direction of a web site where i can get above mentioned info!!

They were made in the hundreds of thousands,all completely identical and worth absolutely nothing.Not even the price of a pint of milk!

damo03 · 28-04-2008 6:06pm

We have a farm at home i fond a few old blue bottles(small about 200ml) with cork type lids, no screw caps and an old octagonal green bottle that was made in dundalk(about pint) would these be worth any thing. All are in good condition.

Degsy · 01-05-2008 10:26am

damo03 wrote: »

We have a farm at home i fond a few old blue bottles(small about 200ml) with cork type lids, no screw caps and an old octagonal green bottle that was made in dundalk(about pint) would these be worth any thing. All are in good condition.

In order for bottles to be worth anything at all they need to be rare.It sounds like you've found two common poison-type bottles.I'd need to see them but the chances are they'r so common as to be worth almost nothing,remember some bottles were churned out by the million.

BetsyGray · 02-05-2008 4:22pm

Can you give us an idea of what types of bottles are rare then? Or where are the best places to look?

I'd be up for a bit of digging for a laugh but there wouldn't be too much point collecting things that turn out to be useless. Although I suppose you could recycle them?

This all reminds me of a story I saw once online about some fella who found an unopened bottle of beer in his attic with a message from his grandfather telling whoever found it to enjoy it. The bottle must have been 60/70 years old?

Anyway the fella stuck it on ebay and sold it for a reasonable price. The person who bought it though recognised its value - rare beer bottle + age + the grandfather was a famous explorer - and resold it on ebay for a fortune.

Sounds like a wind-up but I did see the listings. Can't remember where I saw the story tho.

Anyone else heard about this?

04-05-2008 4:50pm

I have a shelf full of old bottles that OH brings home. All shapes and sizes. Most are in good condition considering where he found them. Personally I prefer the little stone jars/bottles. I have some intact and some with chips missing from the top. Another shelf is called for before the existing one collapses:D

Degsy · 07-05-2008 1:31pm

BetsyGray wrote: »

Can you give us an idea of what types of bottles are rare then? Or where are the best places to look?

I'd be up for a bit of digging for a laugh but there wouldn't be too much point collecting things that turn out to be useless. Although I suppose you could recycle them?

This all reminds me of a story I saw once online about some fella who found an unopened bottle of beer in his attic with a message from his grandfather telling whoever found it to enjoy it. The bottle must have been 60/70 years old?

Anyway the fella stuck it on ebay and sold it for a reasonable price. The person who bought it though recognised its value - rare beer bottle + age + the grandfather was a famous explorer - and resold it on ebay for a fortune.

Sounds like a wind-up but I did see the listings. Can't remember where I saw the story tho.

Anyone else heard about this?

The issue of rarity really only comes into it if you're a serious collector and you know what to look for,for most people bottle-collecting isnt about the money,its the excitement of unearthing objects that havnt seen the light of day for a hundred years,cleaning them up and displaying them.Most old glass isnt clear or perfect,it was blown by hand and impurities in the ingeredients gave rise to different shades of glass,most commonly green or aqua.Far more interesting than any amount of machine-made bottles manufatured by the millions to look identical.Leaving aside rarity or value,here are a few commonly collected bottle types
http://www.bygonz.co.uk/codds.htm

http://www.antiquebottles.com/gingerbeer/
http://www.antiquebottles.com/poison/

Within these broad c ategories there are many sub-sections.for example some people only collect bottles from thier area,some only collect coloured examples etc etc.My own criteria for collecting is a) if i like it b)i found it myself c)its in good condition.Basicly if it makes you happy go for it!

arnhem44 · 07-06-2008 10:59pm

Degsy wrote: »

Anybody else here interested in this?

Hi Degsy,just came across this thread,would random dug up bottle finds be included,I have a few saved from when we dig them up with our digger,found a couple of interesting local ones lately in a ditch that we knocked around a site and a couple of bits from Sam Maguires homeplace(GAA)but bare in mind his sister lived in the house up until the sixties,after she died the house became a ruin and its only been redone last year as a tourist type thing,so most likely anything that came out of the house would not of been his,if your interested I'll post them up

arnhem44 · 08-06-2008 10:19pm

ok here are some of the bottles dug up with my digger at work,the not to be taken ones i beleave are quite common,one is a Holbrook bottle,don't know the age of this and the other two are old with local interest to myself,the first one is a green glass bottle,it says contents bottled by the clonakilty wine,spirits and beer co. clonakilty,the other one is more of a brownish colour and says jj calnan & son,wine merchant & mineral water manufacturer,bandon both bottles are marked underneath the first with a k and the other with a an r,as for the sam maguire bits,they may be thrown out,i've searched high and low and they aint turning up

Degsy · 10-06-2008 5:43pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

ok here are some of the bottles dug up with my digger at work,the not to be taken ones i beleave are quite common,one is a Holbrook bottle,don't know the age of this and the other two are old with local interest to myself,the first one is a green glass bottle,it says contents bottled by the clonakilty wine,spirits and beer co. clonakilty,the other one is more of a brownish colour and says jj calnan & son,wine merchant & mineral water manufacturer,bandon both bottles are marked underneath the first with a k and the other with a an r,as for the sam maguire bits,they may be thrown out,i've searched high and low and they aint turning up

The two intersting bottles you have here are known as "blob tops".They held either beer or seltzer water and possibly date from the late 1800's.Bottles like this may have carried a deposit and were used and re-used by manufactures and brewers.The bottles were made from thick heavy glass to withstand the pressure of carbonated water or the gas of beer.The necks were usually sealed with a cork and may have had wire wrapped round the neck to hold it in place.The details of the merchants on the glass make them of interest to collectors especially local ones.The brown poison bottle is extremely common and were manufactured right up to the 1930's.The holbrook bottle is probably circa 1920.

arnhem44 · 10-06-2008 7:56pm

Thanks for the info Degsy,that would tie in with the old brewery here in town,unfortunatley there were two more of the Clonakilty bottles in the ditch but sadly these broke as the ditch was been knocked and these were brown in colour but the writing was at an angle,having seen one other one like the one I have I have never seen the other varity which makes it even sader,the posion bottles do turn up quite frequently but I think what makes them that little bit interesting is the various shapes and colours they come in,I also found some pottery type jars in the ditch,one with glasgow printed into the clay,I must try and find these and keep them all together.

Degsy · 11-06-2008 9:56am

arnhem44 wrote: »

Thanks for the info Degsy,that would tie in with the old brewery here in town,unfortunatley there were two more of the Clonakilty bottles in the ditch but sadly these broke as the ditch was been knocked and these were brown in colour but the writing was at an angle,having seen one other one like the one I have I have never seen the other varity which makes it even sader,the posion bottles do turn up quite frequently but I think what makes them that little bit interesting is the various shapes and colours they come in,I also found some pottery type jars in the ditch,one with glasgow printed into the clay,I must try and find these and keep them all together.

Poisons come in a multitude of shapes and colours,they are one of the most widely collecetd of bottle types and the rare ones can be staggeringly expensive.
This one sold for 8000 sterling!!

lighterfox · 15-06-2008 11:54am

HA HA there you go, that showed you

BrianD3 · 15-06-2008 2:16pm

What an interesting thread. I remember when I was a kid I used to hang around building sites/excavations and hoard up stuff that had been unearthed. My main interest was clay pipes, collected plenty of them. Found lots of old broken glass and crockery but no intact bottles.

Also came across a few bottle dumps near my house, think they may have come from an old pub located nearby. Unfortunately the bottles got blasted to smithereens with stones from my Black Widow

Degsy · 17-06-2008 9:13am

BrianD3 wrote: »

What an interesting thread. I remember when I was a kid I used to hang around building sites/excavations and hoard up stuff that had been unearthed. My main interest was clay pipes, collected plenty of them. Found lots of old broken glass and crockery but no intact bottles.

Also came across a few bottle dumps near my house, think they may have come from an old pub located nearby. Unfortunately the bottles got blasted to smithereens with stones from my Black Widow

I colelct clay pipes as well,they used to turn up in the hundreds in the fields at the back of my place,mostly broken but oftne the makers name on the bowl was readable.As for shooting bottles with black widows,my granny was telling me the kids used to smash Codd bottles years ago to get the marbles out.Many kids today have 150 year old marbles in thier collections that came from these bottles.

arnhem44 · 01-07-2008 8:11pm

Was digging on the same building site today and came up with another couple of bottles,nothing special but another more modern one with another Clonakilty branding on it,never heard of this company so must look into it,everytime I put the bucket of the digger down a bit of pottery or glass would appear from the foundation of the remaining ditch and of course they were broke or should I say that I probarly broke them myself:eek:,I've also came across the missing bits of pottery and bottles in the shed and will post them all up tomorrow if I can

arnhem44 · 02-07-2008 9:59pm

Ok here are the remaining bottles and bits of pottery,the first pic is the one of the bottles found the other day,the clonakilty one is branded ws&b co.clonakilty,the others are all poorly made,there leaning over quite a bit and sadly one has the top broken off,the secound pic are some of the bits that came out of the Sam Maguire house except the first pottery piece on the left which was made in Glasgow,there just odds and ends really and not that old,one interesting bit was the old brush for shaving

boneless · 10-07-2008 5:30pm

There was a famous brewery in Clonakilty which produced a stout called Wrasslers. It is reputed to be the last drink Collins had the noght before Beal na Blath. Maybe the Clonakilty bottles are from that brew house?

arnhem44 · 10-07-2008 8:59pm

The older Clonakilty bottle is indeed from the brewery that made wrastler,the brewery was owned by a family named Deasy who founded it in 1807,they also had another brewery in another part of town but this seems to of been quite small,according to local history they produced different types of stout there,they made Clonakilty XX,ClonakiltyXXX and a light ale called Amber Ale for women,Deasy went bust after the famine and was taken over by a company named Wright and Canty who won a bronze medal for stout in 1893 at the Chicago world fair,brewing ceased during the forties and then the company was finally taken over by Guinness,as for Michael Collins drinking it on his last night,I really don't know.I've actually worked in the old brewery building and have attached a couple of photos that I took at the time,from the outside there is large red brick chimeys and the photos are from the room underneath,now theres my research done.

Degsy · 10-07-2008 10:01pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

Ok here are the remaining bottles and bits of pottery,the first pic is the one of the bottles found the other day,the clonakilty one is branded ws&b co.clonakilty,the others are all poorly made,there leaning over quite a bit and sadly one has the top broken off,the secound pic are some of the bits that came out of the Sam Maguire house except the first pottery piece on the left which was made in Glasgow,there just odds and ends really and not that old,one interesting bit was the old brush for shaving

What you've got in those pics is a mixture of different bottles with different dates.The Pottery piece ion the left is a stoneware Blacking Bottle.The either contained blacking for boots or ink,often the same sort of bottle was used for different products.The date would be from roughly the 1890's to 1920's something like that.You have a two nice "penny inks"..one stoneware and one in glass,again the date would be victorian or thereabouts.The heavily scrathed bottle on the left in the first pic is an early form of crown closure mineral water bottle.This was the forerunner of modern bottletops and the date would be after 1892 when they were first invented,its plainly not modern due to the colour of the glass.You have a brown stout bottle there from the 1950's and a medecine bottle of some sort(maybe syrup of figs) from around 1940's-1950's.The blue bottle with the prominent lip i'm not sure about but it could've held medicine and the date would be 1900 or so.

boneless · 12-07-2008 4:40pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

The older Clonakilty bottle is indeed from the brewery that made wrastler,the brewery was owned by a family named Deasy who founded it in 1807,they also had another brewery in another part of town but this seems to of been quite small,according to local history they produced different types of stout there,they made Clonakilty XX,ClonakiltyXXX and a light ale called Amber Ale for women,Deasy went bust after the famine and was taken over by a company named Wright and Canty who won a bronze medal for stout in 1893 at the Chicago world fair,brewing ceased during the forties and then the company was finally taken over by Guinness,as for Michael Collins drinking it on his last night,I really don't know.I've actually worked in the old brewery building and have attached a couple of photos that I took at the time,from the outside there is large red brick chimeys and the photos are from the room underneath,now theres my research done.

Sorry lads... I just realised the brewery was mentioned in other posts.

Arnhem44, they are great photos... any more? I didn't realise the buildings were still standing.

arnhem44 · 14-07-2008 6:45pm

Degsy wrote: »

What you've got in those pics is a mixture of different bottles with different dates.The Pottery piece ion the left is a stoneware Blacking Bottle.The either contained blacking for boots or ink,often the same sort of bottle was used for different products.The date would be from roughly the 1890's to 1920's something like that.You have a two nice "penny inks"..one stoneware and one in glass,again the date would be victorian or thereabouts.The heavily scrathed bottle on the left in the first pic is an early form of crown closure mineral water bottle.This was the forerunner of modern bottletops and the date would be after 1892 when they were first invented,its plainly not modern due to the colour of the glass.You have a brown stout bottle there from the 1950's and a medecine bottle of some sort(maybe syrup of figs) from around 1940's-1950's.The blue bottle with the prominent lip i'm not sure about but it could've held medicine and the date would be 1900 or so.

Thank you kindly for the info Degsy,they would of sat on the shelf for years to come not knowing what they were if it were not for you.

arnhem44 · 14-07-2008 7:00pm

boneless wrote: »

Sorry lads... I just realised the brewery was mentioned in other posts.

Arnhem44, they are great photos... any more? I didn't realise the buildings were still standing.

Hi Boneless,ya the brewery still stands,I don't have any other photos of it from the outside but I will get one and post it up,its quite a long building and has still got its four brick chimneys standing,its built on the edge of the river that runs through town,opposite the old national school which Michael Collins went two,there was also two others that went to the school that were involved in the uprising in Dublin,the building has changed hands a few times in the last few years and has had a new roof and windows put into it which no doubt will keep the building standing for another few years to come,having done some further research I found out that the bottles were made on Soveriegn Street in another factory in a different part of town,that street no longer exists now,the brewery had there own coopers in house who made the casks for the stout from imported English oak,everything under one roof I guess

arnhem44 · 28-07-2008 9:07pm

boneless wrote: »

Sorry lads... I just realised the brewery was mentioned in other posts.

Arnhem44, they are great photos... any more? I didn't realise the buildings were still standing.

These are of the outside of clonakilty brewery,they really don't do it justice,was at a wedding the other day and snaped these quickly,sadly there is so much more to the building which i hadn't time to get

arnhem44 · 03-12-2008 9:15pm

these were the latest finds,one small bottle with a glass lid,a Jeyes bottle,another not to be taken poison bottle and another really small ink well I guess??

Degsy · 04-12-2008 12:45pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

these were the latest finds,one small bottle with a glass lid,a Jeyes bottle,another not to be taken poison bottle and another really small ink well I guess??

That bottle with the lid is pretty unusual(ie to be complete with lid).It'd be difficult to say what was in it but my guess was either perfume or it contained some sort of pharmaceutical or chemical.This sort of bottle were popular in phramacies and laboratories.Have you had a (carefull!!) sniff?

arnhem44 · 05-12-2008 6:12pm

Hi Degsy,Its interesting to see those ones pictured with there labels,I haven't got around to opening it yet but no doubt curiosity will get the better of me,whatever is in there is still moist so will let you know over the next few days if its anything familiar

Degsy wrote: »

That bottle with the lid is pretty unusual(ie to be complete with lid).It'd be difficult to say what was in it but my guess was either perfume or it contained some sort of pharmaceutical or chemical.This sort of bottle were popular in phramacies and laboratories.Have you had a (carefull!!) sniff?

arnhem44 · 06-12-2008 8:30pm

Hi Degsy,had a smell from that bottle,definately isn't perfume,more of a medicine smell to it which is familiar but I quite can't put my finger on it

Degsy · 08-12-2008 11:45am

arnhem44 wrote: »

Hi Degsy,had a smell from that bottle,definately isn't perfume,more of a medicine smell to it which is familiar but I quite can't put my finger on it

Cocaine?;)

Scawgeen · 08-12-2008 5:57pm

arnhem44 wrote: »

Hi Degsy,had a smell from that bottle,definately isn't perfume,more of a medicine smell to it which is familiar but I quite can't put my finger on it

I can't see the small bottle very well but it could be a Hair Oil bottle ??? just guessing by the shape. Has it a tiny opening on the top ?

arnhem44 · 08-12-2008 8:29pm

Hi Scawgeen,it does have a small opening,the lid fits in perfectly to it,I'll try and get another photo posted up but I'm converting the attic with the past few days so things are in a bit of a mess up there,as for the cocaine idea Degsy,:eek:what are you trying to say!:p_______________

Bottle Digging

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