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Bottle Digging

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  • 07-04-2008 3:10pm
    #1
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭


    Anybody else here interested in this?


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    #2
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Degsy wrote: »
    Anybody else here interested in this?

    What's that?


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    #3
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Preusse wrote: »
    What's that?

    It usually involves researching and locating old (victorian or edwardian) rubbish tips and digging them inorder to find bottles,pot lids,stoneware etc.packaging like this was discarded in huge quantities in days past and a lot of it is still there,just buried.Fairview park in dublin was used as a domestic rubbish dump up to the 1920's and contains millions of bottles!


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    #4
    SpitfireIV
    Registered Users Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭SpitfireIV


    Interesting, so, what goodies have ye got?

    Myself and my bro came across a 'bottle dump' in a woods near my grans, lots of old, interesting looking bottles, most likely from the local pub, most of the bottles were 1940's to 60's or 70's perhaps, nothing too interesting.


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    #5
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Thanks Degsy. I like the idea of Victorian or Edwardian. Not too much into the more recent stuff. ;)

    Would there be chamber pots? :D Sorry, had to ask.


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    #6
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »
    Interesting, so, what goodies have ye got?

    Myself and my bro came across a 'bottle dump' in a woods near my grans, lots of old, interesting looking bottles, most likely from the local pub, most of the bottles were 1940's to 60's or 70's perhaps, nothing too interesting.

    Dont be so sure,if teh pub pre-dates the 1940's the chances are there's an older dump underneath the one you found.People are creatures of habit and will use the same location as a dump for generations,usually because its in a convenient area.Bring a fork with you some day and have bit of a dig,if you want i'll help out!


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    #7
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Preusse wrote: »
    Thanks Degsy. I like the idea of Victorian or Edwardian. Not too much into the more recent stuff. ;)

    Would there be chamber pots? :D Sorry, had to ask.

    Well most early bottles were made by hand so they're all different in some way.Modern bottles made with machines (ie after the 1920's) all tend to be identical and as such completely uninteresting.
    As for chamber pots..i've yet to see one,they tended not to be thrown out idf they werent broken and were in use up to very recent times(a lot of houses only had outside toilets)!Stoneware hot water bottles are more likely finds though,i've got several!


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    #8
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Very interesting. Is there much of a market for this kind of thing?


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    #9
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    RoundyMooney wrote: »
    Very interesting. Is there much of a market for this kind of thing?

    That depends on a coupe of things.Condition and rarity.Bottles that are chipped,cracked or broken are completely useless,they'll eventually take a knock and break completely.There's also a condition commonly found called "sickness",this is when acids in the soil react with teh glass producing a milky,irididescent surface.This cannot be removed and as such bottles are pretty much ruined.
    Rarity:This is probably more important than condition.In victorian times,bottles were manufactured and discarded in the millions,common brands of mineral water for example are dug out in the hundreds and this would severly affect any value.many people wholesale common items to pubs etc for displays almost by the ton.Rare items can command very high prices.Early glass was never clear due to the prescence of impurities b ut coloured glass could be made with the addition of various metals..cobalt for blue or even gold for red.This was expensive and consequently coloured bottles are rarer and more sought after.Off the top of my head,a cobalt blue mineral water bottle could sell for 8000 sterling!


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    #10
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Degsy wrote: »
    ...Off the top of my head,a cobalt blue mineral water bottle could sell for 8000 sterling!

    I think I found a new hobby! :eek:


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    #11
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Preusse wrote: »
    I think I found a new hobby! :eek:

    Yes...the reason they're so expensive is that they're as rare as tits on a bullfrog.Herman Goering's underpants rare!


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    #12
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Could you guys please at least try and catalogue the find location of these things, finds around them, no matter how insignificant and uninteresting? Im not going to give you the talk but please make the effort.

    G


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    #13
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Degsy wrote: »
    Yes...the reason they're so expensive is that they're as rare as tits on a bullfrog.Herman Goering's underpants rare!

    Oh dear. That means rare but not collectible? I mean, who wants Hermann's undies? :D


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    #14
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Grimes wrote: »
    Could you guys please at least try and catalogue the find location of these things, finds around them, no matter how insignificant and uninteresting? Im not going to give you the talk but please make the effort.

    G

    But surely in a former victorian rubbish dump there wouldnt be anything of archeological interest?


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    #15
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,367 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    How did you get started in that Degsy?


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    #16
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    kowloon wrote: »
    How did you get started in that Degsy?

    My granny used to have big old victorian house with a laneway at the back that had become overgrown with trees and bushes.I was mooching around one day when i was about ten when i found my first bottle sticking out of the soil.After i'd brought it in to show everybody my g rannytold me that in years past people used to dump bottles there as the binman wouldnt take them.I w ent back with a fork and was soon digging away merrily!


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    #17
    boneless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭boneless


    Degsy wrote: »
    But surely in a former victorian rubbish dump there wouldnt be anything of archeological interest?

    As most archaeological finds are discarded or lost, yes; they are of interest. They can help in the identification and dating of objects found on other sites. Say you found an object with a label or marking on it for instance...:)


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    #18
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    boneless wrote: »
    As most archaeological finds are discarded or lost, yes; they are of interest. They can help in the identification and dating of objects found on other sites. Say you found an object with a label or marking on it for instance...:)

    Yeah but if its an earleir onject found amongst,say victorian rubbish,it lacks any context and was obviously thrown there by chance.Isnt context the important thing?:)


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    #19
    boneless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭boneless


    Degsy wrote: »
    Yeah but if its an earleir onject found amongst,say victorian rubbish,it lacks any context and was obviously thrown there by chance.Isnt context the important thing?:)

    Ideally yes. However, to aid in typology any information is important... a date on a label or bottle doesn't really need to be in context....:) an earlier object found in such conditions would be a curiousity I admit but not the exercise in question here.

    Edit> Mods... sorry for being a bit pedantic!!


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    #20
    gollyitsolly
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭gollyitsolly


    I have 2 milk bottles. One is a 1988 millenium bottle and the other is an Italia 90 world cup.


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    #21
    lighterfox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭lighterfox


    About the milk bottle, i have a friend who still has hers, she would like to know (just for curiosity purposes) how many bottles were made and roughly what kind of price they would get on the market. If you don't know would you be able to point me in the right direction of a web site where i can get above mentioned info!!

    gollyitsolly wrote: »
    I have 2 milk bottles. One is a 1988 millenium bottle and the other is an Italia 90 world cup.


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    #22
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    lighterfox wrote: »
    About the milk bottle, i have a friend who still has hers, she would like to know (just for curiosity purposes) how many bottles were made and roughly what kind of price they would get on the market. If you don't know would you be able to point me in the right direction of a web site where i can get above mentioned info!!

    They were made in the hundreds of thousands,all completely identical and worth absolutely nothing.Not even the price of a pint of milk!


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    #23
    damo03
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭damo03


    We have a farm at home i fond a few old blue bottles(small about 200ml) with cork type lids, no screw caps and an old octagonal green bottle that was made in dundalk(about pint) would these be worth any thing. All are in good condition.


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    #24
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    damo03 wrote: »
    We have a farm at home i fond a few old blue bottles(small about 200ml) with cork type lids, no screw caps and an old octagonal green bottle that was made in dundalk(about pint) would these be worth any thing. All are in good condition.

    In order for bottles to be worth anything at all they need to be rare.It sounds like you've found two common poison-type bottles.I'd need to see them but the chances are they'r so common as to be worth almost nothing,remember some bottles were churned out by the million.


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    #25
    BetsyGray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭BetsyGray


    Can you give us an idea of what types of bottles are rare then? Or where are the best places to look?

    I'd be up for a bit of digging for a laugh but there wouldn't be too much point collecting things that turn out to be useless. Although I suppose you could recycle them?

    This all reminds me of a story I saw once online about some fella who found an unopened bottle of beer in his attic with a message from his grandfather telling whoever found it to enjoy it. The bottle must have been 60/70 years old?

    Anyway the fella stuck it on ebay and sold it for a reasonable price. The person who bought it though recognised its value - rare beer bottle + age + the grandfather was a famous explorer - and resold it on ebay for a fortune.

    Sounds like a wind-up but I did see the listings. Can't remember where I saw the story tho.

    Anyone else heard about this?


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I have a shelf full of old bottles that OH brings home. All shapes and sizes. Most are in good condition considering where he found them. Personally I prefer the little stone jars/bottles. I have some intact and some with chips missing from the top. Another shelf is called for before the existing one collapses:D


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    #27
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    BetsyGray wrote: »
    Can you give us an idea of what types of bottles are rare then? Or where are the best places to look?

    I'd be up for a bit of digging for a laugh but there wouldn't be too much point collecting things that turn out to be useless. Although I suppose you could recycle them?

    This all reminds me of a story I saw once online about some fella who found an unopened bottle of beer in his attic with a message from his grandfather telling whoever found it to enjoy it. The bottle must have been 60/70 years old?

    Anyway the fella stuck it on ebay and sold it for a reasonable price. The person who bought it though recognised its value - rare beer bottle + age + the grandfather was a famous explorer - and resold it on ebay for a fortune.

    Sounds like a wind-up but I did see the listings. Can't remember where I saw the story tho.

    Anyone else heard about this?

    The issue of rarity really only comes into it if you're a serious collector and you know what to look for,for most people bottle-collecting isnt about the money,its the excitement of unearthing objects that havnt seen the light of day for a hundred years,cleaning them up and displaying them.Most old glass isnt clear or perfect,it was blown by hand and impurities in the ingeredients gave rise to different shades of glass,most commonly green or aqua.Far more interesting than any amount of machine-made bottles manufatured by the millions to look identical.Leaving aside rarity or value,here are a few commonly collected bottle types
    http://www.bygonz.co.uk/codds.htm

    http://www.antiquebottles.com/gingerbeer/
    http://www.antiquebottles.com/poison/

    Within these broad c ategories there are many sub-sections.for example some people only collect bottles from thier area,some only collect coloured examples etc etc.My own criteria for collecting is a) if i like it b)i found it myself c)its in good condition.Basicly if it makes you happy go for it!


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    #28
    arnhem44
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    Degsy wrote: »
    Anybody else here interested in this?
    Hi Degsy,just came across this thread,would random dug up bottle finds be included,I have a few saved from when we dig them up with our digger,found a couple of interesting local ones lately in a ditch that we knocked around a site and a couple of bits from Sam Maguires homeplace(GAA)but bare in mind his sister lived in the house up until the sixties,after she died the house became a ruin and its only been redone last year as a tourist type thing,so most likely anything that came out of the house would not of been his,if your interested I'll post them up


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    #29
    arnhem44
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    ok here are some of the bottles dug up with my digger at work,the not to be taken ones i beleave are quite common,one is a Holbrook bottle,don't know the age of this and the other two are old with local interest to myself,the first one is a green glass bottle,it says contents bottled by the clonakilty wine,spirits and beer co. clonakilty,the other one is more of a brownish colour and says jj calnan & son,wine merchant & mineral water manufacturer,bandon both bottles are marked underneath the first with a k and the other with a an r,as for the sam maguire bits,they may be thrown out,i've searched high and low and they aint turning up


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    #30
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    arnhem44 wrote: »
    ok here are some of the bottles dug up with my digger at work,the not to be taken ones i beleave are quite common,one is a Holbrook bottle,don't know the age of this and the other two are old with local interest to myself,the first one is a green glass bottle,it says contents bottled by the clonakilty wine,spirits and beer co. clonakilty,the other one is more of a brownish colour and says jj calnan & son,wine merchant & mineral water manufacturer,bandon both bottles are marked underneath the first with a k and the other with a an r,as for the sam maguire bits,they may be thrown out,i've searched high and low and they aint turning up

    The two intersting bottles you have here are known as "blob tops".They held either beer or seltzer water and possibly date from the late 1800's.Bottles like this may have carried a deposit and were used and re-used by manufactures and brewers.The bottles were made from thick heavy glass to withstand the pressure of carbonated water or the gas of beer.The necks were usually sealed with a cork and may have had wire wrapped round the neck to hold it in place.The details of the merchants on the glass make them of interest to collectors especially local ones.The brown poison bottle is extremely common and were manufactured right up to the 1930's.The holbrook bottle is probably circa 1920.


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    #31
    arnhem44
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    Thanks for the info Degsy,that would tie in with the old brewery here in town,unfortunatley there were two more of the Clonakilty bottles in the ditch but sadly these broke as the ditch was been knocked and these were brown in colour but the writing was at an angle,having seen one other one like the one I have I have never seen the other varity which makes it even sader,the posion bottles do turn up quite frequently but I think what makes them that little bit interesting is the various shapes and colours they come in,I also found some pottery type jars in the ditch,one with glasgow printed into the clay,I must try and find these and keep them all together.


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