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July 12th...

13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah, if ever there was a place for which the phrase "it's the economy, stupid" was especially appropriate, Northern Ireland is it. The flashpoint areas for sectarian violence are also the poor ones. When do we hear of violence in upmarket parts of Derry or Belfast?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,588 ✭✭✭weemcd


    I have to share a working environment with people who consider the 12th weekend to be the height of the social calendar:rolleyes:

    Anytime during the year the protestant/catholic/whatever workers get along fine and then july comes and just throws down a huge divide. Really brings out the worst in people (myself included.) As soon as the rota was up for the coming weeks I had a few "true blues" walking up to me like vultures asking to change shifts so they could have it off, to which my reply was, "sorry bud, wish i could but i've already swapped with a nice (Fenian) girl so she can go to concert that shall remain un-named due to legal reasons"

    In previous years I've ignored the 12th but this year it has really started to boil my blood, driving to work 11 months of the year only to notice in the first week of july the kerb stones are being painted and every gobshíte in the area has a union jack outside their window. Then of course you have the unionist shops on the front of the telegraph advertising the sale of tri-colours, extra flammable, for the bonnie of course!

    My uncle who owns a timber yard is tortured in the early summer every year for scrap wood and pallets that can be used for this special occasion, and gives in for fear of any retribution that would come his way if he didn't hand some over.

    Then on the way home from work today I'd to endure their "music" on my walk, only to walk past a nationalist pub with another shower of halfwits standing around wondering what the point of it all was - if you dont see the point stop watching you morons.

    Now we can look forward to Monday, or whatever day they turn in with stories about getting pished in some field and fighting and relish in the fact that any progress made in uniting the two sides over the past has been undone, and the hatred is still there.

    "Nakamura ate my dog, ate my dog,
    Nakamura ate my dog, ate my dog
    He Sliced It! he diced it!
    Then he threw it in his Wok
    Nakamura ate my dog, ate my dog"


    /rant over


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    The Nakamura thing (a reference to an Asian Celtic player) was on a banner Rangers fans took on a European Away trip. When they seen it on BBC, they actually laughed and said "Ah rangers fans, they take their humour with them" or something along those lines. They once had a similar banner behind Artur Boruc (Celtics goalkeeper, a strong religious bloke...) about how the "Hoodoo Voodoo Don't Work Boruc" or something like that, a reference to him blessing himself before every match. Funny two football teams in Glasgow cause so much trouble across the sea!

    Best one is on YouTube, where a video of the Nakamura song is listed as
    little slitty eyed *** know what we think of him and his type, Hiroshima was too good for them! ... Nakamura ate my dog ...

    :rolleyes:

    Proud to be a Hibs fan!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Sickens me. But what can you do? How do you eliminate such ignorance?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    totally forgot all about it tbh till i seen this thread


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    They once had a similar banner behind Artur Boruc (Celtics goalkeeper, a strong religious bloke...) about how the "Hoodoo Voodoo Don't Work Boruc" or something like that, a reference to him blessing himself before every match.
    And yet they're so protective of their religion. I'm sure they're well up on the history of protestantism...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    Oh come on now, the majority of people who participate in the 12th don't have any ill-will towards Catholics, focusing on the bigots amongst Rangers fans as if they represent the meaning of the day isn't fair, especially as there's just as many reprobates on the Nationalist side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Dudess wrote: »
    And yet they're so protective of their religion. I'm sure they're well up on the history of protestantism...

    I am a fan of Socialism because of its opposition to religion in general. It would be nice to be united in that sense. I know, dream on..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    weemcd wrote: »
    /rant over
    Excellent post.
    I always considered myself to be sympathetic to the catholic in the north but without getting too involved.

    I traveled the west coast of oz with a girl from Belfast and on those long journeys with no radio she told me stories of growning up in Belfast in the 80's and how the were 2nd class citizens.

    It really opened my eyes to some of the carry on up there, that even though it is only a quick spin away for me i'd blindly ignored.

    The Christy moore song, On The Bridge has the lines

    With my eyes turned to the ground I moved along
    I covered up my ears and I held my tongue
    The rain poured down relentlessly upon the picket line
    And the empty words fell from my lips, "Your troubles are not mine"


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    Quality wrote: »
    Whats your opinion on this marching business?

    And the burning of the tricolour up the North?

    Bunch o' c*nts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Jimbo


    I've always likened the Orange marches to a dog pissing around to mark its' territory.

    In general, I would not have a problem if a group of people want to dress up like idiots and march around while the rest of us laugh. However it's a different storey when they are obviuosly there to incite malice and hatred


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/aquascrotum/IMG_3104.jpg


    Some of these bonfires are so big they must be dangerous?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭flanum


    first of all id like to clarify

    "Glorious Twelfth".... actually refers to 12th august first day of the grouse hunting season!!

    and id also like to add that i had fierce craic this evening slagging my prod friends.... "take off your shoes and rest your feet", "fanta is it ya want?"!

    fukc it..
    fukc them..
    fukc me..
    were all fukcled!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Whatever you think of the bonfires, those who construct them their talents are clearly wasted... Feats of structural engineering some of them!!


  • Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I am burning an effigy of Maddie McCann coz the bitch was a Catholic!Come on the tans!Eleventy111111!!!!one!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    A couple of photographs from the Irish news showing a business in east Belfast taking advantage of the increase in "Fenian flag" sales at this time of the year!

    [URL="[url]http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20080709/por-news4.jpg[/url]"]Shop[/URL]
    [URL="[url]http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20080709/por-news4a.jpg[/url]"]Flag[/URL]

    Also this pic shows the flag with KAT written across it, I'm pretty sure that KAT doesn't stand for Kill All Trees though!

    Bonfire

    I wonder what would the reaction have been if the message was kill all jews or kill all muslims. I have a feeling it would have caused a slight bit more controversy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    How do you eliminate such ignorance?


    Industrial ovens :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Sickens me. But what can you do? How do you eliminate such ignorance?

    Wipe out humanity and start again with the ants.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Bambi wrote: »
    Industrial ovens :pac:
    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Wipe out humanity and start again with the ants.

    I know I'm probably in the wrong forum, but have you any serious suggestions?
    Perhaps it will just take a generation to die out. But I'm at a loss otherwise.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I know I'm probably in the wrong forum, but have you any serious suggestions?
    Perhaps it will just take a generation to die out. But I'm at a loss otherwise.

    Oh, yes - but they more 'serious' ones tend to get laughed at!! Like doing away with nationality and religion. Lennon was right.

    Hate and insecurity are ingrained human flaws and will never die out. It's not a generational thing - not when we teach the generation after us that our hate is justified and their hate is expected.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭scop


    Dudess wrote: »
    I doubt the Orange Order would be the most racially tolerant organisation there is, but if an African lodge is set up, I'm sure they'd be fine... it means more recognition. Gotta love hypocrisy.

    http://www.ulster.ac.uk/news/images/africas-orange-order.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/aquascrotum/IMG_3104.jpg

    You'd think the Green Party would say something about that :rolleyes:

    Burning more or less anything that isn't nailed to the ground (and sometimes they even burn tires.....) in the name of 'culture' and 'tradition' Still, at least it's not like when they burned a flag with the name of a murdered teenage boy on it.....

    They burn more or less anything they can get their hands on that is remotely relevant to those on the other side. It's not unususal to see a Basque or Palestinian flag end up on a bonfire, if it's been nicked. Remember a great story about a few far right-wing lads coming over from the UK and being shocked that unionists were flying Israeli flags in some areas..... "if theres one thing worse than them bloody taigs....."

    http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/75360373.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193550E821156FDE612D3D093DEF3851085284831B75F48EF45
    Burning a few Starry Ploughs, a workers flag.

    http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jul2006/orangemichaelmulqueenfulll.gif
    A reference to a murdered young lad.

    http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09rz8S85xT8Lx/340x.jpg
    An idiots guide to placing a bonfire

    Somebody more familiar with the North, do nationalists have any 'bonfire nights' themselves, or is it only really seen around the 12th?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    PrivateEye wrote: »


    Somebody more familiar with the North, do nationalists have any 'bonfire nights' themselves, or is it only really seen around the 12th?

    Yes, but anybody I know in Derry or Belfast only looks at them as being a silly copy of the fires that Oranges construct. I have seen Israeli flags on loads, but its nothing sectarian, there is only a political message against the state of Israel, and of course Britain with the Union Jack. I'm not trying to justify bonfires, just clarifying.

    http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20080709/por-news4.jpg

    http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20080709/por-news4a.jpg


    http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1445/775794355a072f05c60bph5.jpg - Kill All Taigs


    The following is from Roden Street, South Belfast
    http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/aquascrotum/IMG_3091.jpg

    Some Sinn Fein activists and representatives put a stop to fires in Derry on the grounds that they were causing anti-social behavior. They should be stopped once and for all.

    Check out the lovely UFF badge. This the ****ing Orange fest tourist freindly ****e.


    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44827000/jpg/_44827030_05f3606d-3653-422f-a239-0df2b093a6db.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    I know I'm probably in the wrong forum, but have you any serious suggestions?
    Perhaps it will just take a generation to die out. But I'm at a loss otherwise.


    Integration?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy



    Also this pic shows the flag with KAT written across it, I'm pretty sure that KAT doesn't stand for Kill All Trees though!

    With the amount of timber being burned, it could well mean kill all trees! :D

    As for other posters who asked how to end this, well expanded third level education (you don't see too many bonfires in middle class areas) and integration with increasing secularism. tbh it could be another 60 years before this is over if we're lucky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    darkman2 wrote: »
    http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/aquascrotum/IMG_3104.jpg


    Some of these bonfires are so big they must be dangerous?

    You not know what the fire services have decided to do? If the blaze gets too outta hand they saturate the surrounding houses so they cant catch fire

    Fire services even cowing to pressure from the protestants as if they (protestants) thought their bonfires were at risk they would attack the fire trucks etc

    Anyway the day passed with little incident here i have heard of other places that were not as lucky


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    GAAman wrote: »
    You not know what the fire services have decided to do? If the blaze gets too outta hand they saturate the surrounding houses so they cant catch fire

    Fire services even cowing to pressure from the protestants as if they (protestants) thought their bonfires were at risk they would attack the fire trucks etc

    Anyway the day passed with little incident here i have heard of other places that were not as lucky

    Rasharkin being one. ''Orange youths battered with hurleys''. I haven't spoken to one person who hasn't said the BBC story was totally exagerated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    This article sums it up well.
    nico wrote: »
    Orange streets awash with booze and vomit
    Sunday Tribune 13/07/08

    Despite the Order's stated commitment to temperance, and legal warnings from city council officials, alcohol was everywhere at yesterday's 'Twelfth' celebrations

    The guy with the dyed orange hair and Union Jack shades stood outside King Billy's Park on the Lisburn Road, waving his beer bottle in the air. 'F**k the IRA!' he shouted as the Orangemen marched by. 'F**k all Fenians!' yelled his friend.

    Another young man was draped in a red, white and blue flag. 'Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves. Britons never, never, never shall be slaves!' was emblazoned across it.

    The Orange Order and their supporters don't rule anything in the North nowadays, but for a few hours every 12 July, they take over the streets of Belfast city centre, and they certainly make the most of it.

    Around 250 Orange lodges and their bands departed from Carlisle Circus at 10am yesterday for the four-hour journey to 'the Field' in Edenderry. It was perfect marching weather: dry with a gentle breeze.

    The older Orangemen were immaculate in their Sunday best. They carried carefully folded umbrellas or unsheathed swords with military-like precision. Some sported carnations in their bowler hats. The younger ones were unkempt. Sashes were stretched untidily over ill-fitting suits.

    Still, they were having a grand time, especially the heavily ear-ringed and tattooed bandsmen. Shankill Star band swaggered up the road full of machismo. 'In memory of Brian Robinson' was splashed across its enormous drum. Robinson was a well-known UVF killer.

    It wasn't the only sign of paramilitarism. Scores of teenagers carried the flag of the Ulster Young Militants, the UDA's youth wing. At Bradbury Place, three mini-skirted blonde women – all with bottles of beer in one hand, cigarettes in the other – sashayed onto the road as bands which they particularly liked passed.

    They were perplexed as the 'Upper Falls Protestant Boys' marched by. "I thought there were only Taigs up there," one said. Several pitbulls were bedecked in red, white, and blue. For many, the Twelfth was just a family day out. People shouted to marchers they knew. "Billy, Billy, Happy Twelfth!" yelled a woman in a Union Jack sombrero with a tin whistle around her neck.

    Youngsters waved plastic Union Jacks and squealed in delight at the blood-and-thunder bands. Families shared flasks of tea, and ham and cheese sandwiches. An elderly man in a wheelchair – a tartan blanket draped over his knees – watched the parade from Elmwood Avenue.

    "I only make it out of the house once a year. My daughter drives me here. I wouldn't miss it for the world," he said.

    The Orangemen's lush, ornate banners carried scenes of a bygone era: the battle of the Somme, Mountbatten of Burma, Queen Victoria, Martin Luther, Moses and the tablets of stone. 'Prepare to meet thy God' and 'the wages of sin is death', other banners declared. Nobody paid much notice. Despite the Order's stated commitment to temperance, alcohol was everywhere.

    In Shaftesbury Square, almost everyone was drunk or getting there. It was only 11.30am. Men downed bottles of cider and Buckfast. Women balanced plastic cups of vodka and coke in the drinks' holders of prams. Children sat on boxes of Harp. This year, we were told there'd be a clamp-down on street drinking.

    Belfast City Council officials, police officers standing beside them, handed out leaflets telling people it was an offence to drink in public places and there could be a £500 fine. Hundreds of people all around them were drinking. No action was taken. "It's a difficult situation," one official said.

    Outside the Northern Bank, a police officer chatted to a man who held a Tennant's can in his hand. Many streets were awash with litter, vomit and urine.

    Stalls selling loyalist paraphernalia did a roaring trade. The most popular item was a T-shirt declaring 10 reasons why it was better to be a Protestant than a Catholic. 'We can count without a rosary'; 'we weren't all born with orange hair and freckles'; 'we don't have 10 screaming kids'; 'we're not told what to do by some doddery old lech in Rome'; and 'it's safer to bend over in a church than in a chapel' were some.

    The Eleventh night, on which dozens of bonfires were lit across the North, saw sporadic violence from nationalist and loyalist youths. Police officers were injured in Portadown and Belfast as they were attacked with paint, petrol bombs, stones and fireworks. Fire-fighters dealt with 49 incidents at bonfires and came under attack in Co Antrim and Co Derry.

    An Ireland football shirt, the Tricolour, the Starry Plough, and an INLA sign topped a 40ft bonfire near an entrance to the City Hospital on the Donegall Road. At one point, a drunken crowd blocked the road. Ambulances would have found it impossible to pass.

    The bonfire teetered on the brink of collapse. At five to midnight, it tumbled down, the flames dancing wildly to massive cheers. In nearby Roden Street, hundreds gathered at another bonfire. A band belted out 'Sash' and youths roared sectarian songs aimed at Catholics across the motorway.

    At 1 am on Sandy Row, beer was being openly sold from makeshift stalls in full view of police. At the bonfire on Annadale embankment, rave music blasted. A young man stepped out of the crowd and picked up a discarded piece of wood. He posed against the bonfire as though holding a rifle. Just another glorious Twelfth in Northern Ireland.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    Iv ealways wondered why they use the red hand on their flags and badges. Its a very old Irish symbol isn't it? AFAIK it's the symbol of the Fianna. Always wanted to know how this irony got past their ever so astute minds


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