Deconstructing...Kayroo (1,000th post)

25-06-2008 11:55AM #1

I asked Ste and since my legal article is nowhere near ready I figured a Decon thread would be most useful for me.

I don't expect this to be pretty to be honest and I have a thick skin. I really would like to improve my game this summer and I think the best way to begin any process of improvement is to identify and address your weaknesses. That said, I know I am the owner of many weaknesses so look forward to hearing your perspectives on them. I have been playing too long to be as stagnant in my approach to the game as I am.

Thanks in advane to everyone who replies. Don't expect it to be a monster as I have mostly only played around the Dublin circuit. Oh and Conbro...be nice.

BigCityBanker · 25-06-2008 11:56AM

talk less and concentrate more on table dynamics.

BIGMICKG · 25-06-2008 12:05PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

talk less and concentrate more on table dynamics.

lol couldnt agree more with this. its bound to be a chatty table with u on it. altough i dont think this is a bad thing. dont really like commenting in these threads tbh. but from what ive seen u have excellent hand reading skills. not much else to say

TommyGunne · 25-06-2008 12:07PM

I've always enjoyed playing with you. Any advice I give is to be taken with a grain of salt cos I haven't played much with you in a good while though.

Imo you need to concentrate on your own line a lot more. You sometimes take the weirdest lines where straightforward ones are much better. When bluffing you often misrep or rep too narrow a range also imo.

You could do with a little more focussed aggression too. You can be aggressive, but it is often in bad spots, while you would not be as aggressive in better spots for it.

The main thing though is how I felt you dealt with ranges. Although you hand read quite well, you often get caught up in trying to pin someone on a hand. ie you could work a bit on assigning ranges.

From your posts here though you have been improving a hell of a lot from last summer, when I used to play with you regularly. I have no doubt that you would be a much tougher opponent now (without implying that you weren't then). GL and keep it up.

Slash/ED · 25-06-2008 12:44PM

What TommyGunne said, I haven't really played with you at all in a good while and when I did it was only at full ring live cash where you just played the kind of standard, solid game required to beat it.

The best way to really improve your game from there, imo, is to just play alot of 6 max cash online, and post and discuss HH's. Really there's no substitute for experience and in terms of quantity and quality online will teach you far far more than the basic game required to beat the Jackpot cash game.

That said just like TG, it's been a long time since I've played regularly with you and I'd imagine your game has improved alot since then anyway so that's about the only thing I can say really.

Theresalwaysone · 25-06-2008 01:18PM

Gonna take a while, will come back to this when I have given it more thought. I also cant wait for Conbro's reply.

strewelpeter · 25-06-2008 01:38PM

Pic please, not sure if you are yourself or the other you I think you might be:cool:

Slash/ED · 25-06-2008 01:57PM

Kayroo would be the chattier of the two you're thinking of...

Theresalwaysone · 25-06-2008 02:40PM

OK, here goes. I have an awful lot of table time with you, and this is just IMO.

Your reasoning for a move is nearly always totally influenced by one dynamic only, what I mean is, if you decide to raise you might only focus on how strong your hand is. You might only focus on wanting to get it heads up because your hand is vulnerable. You might only raise because they're were limpers, you dont ever really put all the dynamics together and come to a fuller/more correct decision.

You ignore/dont understand (whichever) implied odds. For example, you have on occasion called LP raises from the sb with hands speculative hands heads up when the original raiser is short stacked. There is no value here. This is quite a big leak of your imo.

You don't pay enough attention. This is linked with my first point. You tend to ignore position a lot, particularly how it affects hand ranges and strength. An UTG raise from a tight player or a loose spewy player does not affect your calling/raising/folding range.

Tommy Gunne said it and it hasnt changed, you are too weak in some spots and far to aggressive in others. Examples include that time you went mad with the AJ against me with the 55 on the paired board. That aggression was unwarranted, granted my call was spewy but my point stands I had shown enough interest by the turn that you didnt need to put the rest in.

You are also too weak in spots, you wont raise for fear of losing your customer. I think this stems from not assigning ranges and trying to pin hands on people, it clouds your judgement and while leads you to play very well if the player has the particular hand you thought,on the whole, against villains range you lose a lot of value or end up stacking yourself.

I wouldn't go as far to say your hand reading is superb. Its not. Again this is linked to point one. You read quite well, but you never believe yourself. This is another huge leak. One hand I remember is that Hand versus IanMC in the jackers, you called the turn lead with the bare ace rag etc.

Some things you do well;

Talk. You keep the table banterful, this is +EV.
You beat the live games fine, your game is perfect for this, if a little loose.
Your bet sizing is rarely bad.

I'll think of more as I go and add em in etc.

GL mate(sorry about the shredding).

Silver-Tiger · 25-06-2008 03:42PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

talk less and concentrate more on table dynamics.

Agreed,
I over heard a conversation between two mates saying john motson was on their table in the jackpot,
I asked John Motson WTF??
They answered , they guy who commentates on everything. I knew who they were talking about straight away.

Gl with the thread.

sickpuppy · 25-06-2008 04:36PM

I remember one time leaving the jackpot because of your constant chatter,
for fear id assault you.
Never have i felt the urge to punch a stranger as much as yourself at the table maybe you do have a higher than average IQ well done does not mean the rest of the table wants to here about it :pac:

Mellor · 25-06-2008 05:18PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

I remember one time leaving the jackpot because of your constant chatter,
for fear id assault you.
Never have i felt the urge to punch a stranger as much as yourself at the table maybe you do have a higher than average IQ well done does not mean the rest of the table wants to here about it :pac:

lol tilt much

Focus:
You seam to find yourself in situations where you are getting "exactly the right price to call". Now alot of the time you are right where a lesser player folds, but by limpin bad hands, or calling small raises with speculative hands.

An example of this, I was short and on the button, you expected me to push a huge range. You called in the CO, and I pushed, you then had a border line call to make,
If you knew I was going to push then calling before is wrong.
Example, if you were button and I the CO, your call is wrong, my investing a small amount you increase the pot and reduce the amount you call, so it becomes neutral.

Manipulating pot odds to make a call neutral like this is wrong.

Other than that, the chat is fine, if people tilt or give out info its +EV

CourierCollie · 25-06-2008 06:22PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

I remember one time leaving the jackpot because of your constant chatter,
for fear id assault you.
Never have i felt the urge to punch a stranger as much as yourself at the table maybe you do have a higher than average IQ well done does not mean the rest of the table wants to here about it :pac:

I'd be on the opposite side of the fence regarding this. Anytime I've been to the Jackpot, and I don't get to hear Kayroos chatter, is a disappointing experience for me.
Don't know your game well enough to comment. Though I think you should try to refrain from commenting on just how bad my, or the other fishies play is( something about 'tapping the fishtank').

jbravado · 25-06-2008 06:43PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

I remember one time leaving the jackpot because of your constant chatter,
for fear id assault you.

LOL.

I dig. When I first started playing I hated you, literally HATED you.
It probably wasnt helped by one of the most ridiculous ever hands where you floated the flop with no pair no draw-then picked up a gutshot on the turn and set me in when I couldnt fold even if I thought I was dead duck as I was getting around 12-1 on my money. Old man river spewed up the middler ftw and I literally rememeber thinking "free money".
I wouldnt change a thing about your continious speech/speech play as personally I know when I didnt know you it tilted me so much I played a lot of hands against you, a lot of the time oop and with the proverbial bag of spanners.
Apologies I havent a huge amount of hands over the last year so nothing hugely constructive to offer. I have heard from a few sources that you have improved immeasurably which I guess wasnt hard

but defo agree you could pay a lot more attnetion to whats ACTUALLY going on at the table.
Your an intelligent guy and Im sure if you applied yourself you could improve your game no end-you beat jacks game well enough afaik but shouldnt let it stunt your devolpment.
FWIW now I know you a bit better-I enjoy being at your table (free money aside) and wish you all the best in the future.

Forgot to add in that ridic hand I had the nut flush draw (all spade flop. Man that hand still tilts me.)

25-06-2008 07:39PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

I remember one time leaving the jackpot because of your constant chatter,
for fear id assault you.
Never have i felt the urge to punch a stranger as much as yourself at the table maybe you do have a higher than average IQ well done does not mean the rest of the table wants to here about it :pac:

Sorry if I ruined your night. I remember the exact night you are talking about and I was doing my best to really wind ConBro up. Apologies if I had a negative effect on your night.

There are certain players I focus on to tilt (jbravado was one, the value in getting Sam to tilt is HUGE) and I know a consequence of this is I can annoy some people. Apologies, never ever my intention.

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Can someone wake Conbro up so I can feel bad about myself a bit?

sickpuppy · 25-06-2008 08:54PM

You didnt ruin my night prob saved me money i didnt mean to have a personal attack on you
some people take a little time to warm too perhaps you are one of them

Theresalwaysone · 25-06-2008 09:00PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

You didnt ruin my night prob saved me money i didnt mean to have a personal attack on you
some people take a little time to warm too perhaps you are one of them

haha.

He is just as annoying years after you meet him as he is on Day one. Only as time passed you realise more and more of it is BS.

THERE, I said it.:cool:

Conbro · 25-06-2008 09:37PM

Im doing my bollox online so I was going to leave my reply to later when Im a bit calmer. However if you want a real honest response at this moment in time then Ill duly oblige:D

I remember the exact night you are talking about and I was doing my best to really wind ConBro up

The only way you'll get me on tilt is by outplaying me and lets face it..

Theresalwaysone · 25-06-2008 09:39PM

Conbro wrote: »

Im doing my bollox online so I was going to leave my reply to later when Im a bit calmer. However if you want a real honest response at this moment in time then Ill duly oblige:D

The only way you'll get me on tilt is by outplaying me and lets face it..

Someone post the popcorn pic. This is gonna be great.

Also, its very easy to tilt Conbro. VERY.

25-06-2008 11:38PM

Conbro wrote: »

Im doing my bollox online...

Conbro wrote: »

The only way you'll get me on tilt is by outplaying me and lets face it..

Wow I must suck so...:D Popcorn at the ready

Killme00 · 25-06-2008 11:44PM

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Someone post the popcorn pic. This is gonna be great.

Also, its very easy to tilt Conbro. VERY.

I concur.

All you have to do is suck out on him and lets face it, Keith is very very good at that!

:pac:

25-06-2008 11:45PM

Killme00 wrote: »

I concur.

All you have to do is suck out on him and lets face it, Keith is very very good at that!

:pac:

I give coaching in racing -v- superior players.

Trippie · 26-06-2008 10:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I give coaching in racing -v- superior players.

well you certainly run good against me then again dont most ppl

AKQJ10 · 27-06-2008 12:09PM

Invest in a bicycle

27-06-2008 12:14PM

AKQJ10 wrote: »

Invest in a bicycle

That one for me or Trippie?

AKQJ10 · 27-06-2008 01:12PM

Both

wendelsailor · 27-06-2008 02:19PM

I like the fact that your so quiet and calm at the table. You tend to really focus on your hands and you don't bother getting involved in the banter. Ive never met someone with such a Zen like attitude to poker. It's almost as if you are not aware of anything going on around you.

27-06-2008 04:09PM

wendelsailor wrote: »

It's almost as if you are not aware of anything going on around you.

QFT

zuroph · 27-06-2008 04:11PM

so kayroos deconstruction is "he talks too much"?
i look forward to mine..."dont know you"

27-06-2008 04:14PM

zuroph wrote: »

so kayroos deconstruction is "he talks too much"?
i look forward to mine..."dont know you"

I'm a bit disappointed actually. Was kinda hoping to be torn apart. There may be an element of "don't mess with the fish" about the posts here. Darn it!

zuroph · 27-06-2008 04:21PM

yeah, the ones before were much more in depth.

been wondering about this, i want deconstructing, my game needs serious sorting out, but since im not in dublin, i guess no1 here is going to be able to help me much.

Deconstructing...Kayroo (1,000th post)

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