Hibernian to shift admin to India. I won't insure with them in future.

DublinWriter · 24-06-2008 07:29AM

lafors wrote: »

SUPPORT IRISH JOBS!

As I said, Irish people complaining about companies sending jobs abroad...hypocrisy much?

Slice · 24-06-2008 07:53AM

Hands up those of you who previously have, or currently do, work for a multinational that has outsourced jobs to Ireland?

Slutmonkey57b · 24-06-2008 08:30AM

gixerfixer wrote: »

The other half's sister works for them....has for 12 years now.Her first and only job and she is more than likely going to be let go.

Lifer working in a cushy admin job in financial services? She's not going to like the real world.

She is gutted as she has to support her two kids by herself as her scumbag husband did a runner several years back and she has a huge mortgage.

Not the company's fault.

The thing that she is really pissed about is that she was only assured by them last March that the jobs would be secure in Ireland for the long term future.Fu**in assh*les:mad:.

"Only" Last March you say? As in over a year ago? Before the credit crisis, meltdown in the financial sector, and the collapse of Bear Stearns? Well, clearly nothing changed in the interim.....

As many people have commented already - Irish people with a
DEY TUUUKK URRRRR JUUUBBBBS attitude? Irony central, last stop.

listermint · 24-06-2008 08:40AM

DublinWriter wrote: »

As I said, Irish people complaining about companies sending jobs abroad...hypocrisy much?

Hypocrisy? Yes! So? whats your point. The Jobs are here, should we not want to keep people in OUR economy working?? More people working in THIS country the better.:rolleyes:

listermint · 24-06-2008 08:42AM

Slice wrote: »

Hands up those of you who previously have, or currently do, work for a multinational that has outsourced jobs to Ireland?

Yes i have and id rather i was working than on the dole! So why would i want the jobs to go elsewhere, doenst matter how much of a hypocrite it makes you Support jobs here! not somewhere else.

Sizzler · 24-06-2008 09:03AM

Slice wrote: »

Something tells me most comments here are hot air.

At the end of the day no one takes their custom elsewhere just because a multinational company like Hibernian are using staff from outside Ireland. That only happens if and when it affects quality of service and value for money. And value for money is what really matters here.

Speculation on your part. I can only speak for myself and I can tell you I won't touch these with a barge pole going foward.

You are underestimating how dogged the Irish consumer can be.

gandalf · 24-06-2008 09:15AM

Wasn't happy when I heard that Hibernian bought Vivas as I have health cover with them, this has made the decision for me. I am moving my account.

seamus · 24-06-2008 09:17AM

Sizzler wrote: »

Speculation on your part. I can only speak for myself and I can tell you I won't touch these with a barge pole going foward.

You are underestimating how dogged the Irish consumer can be.

I think you're overestimating the drive that the Irish consumer can have. We're pretty lazy about shopping for the best price, and political issues come way down the agenda. This'll be forgotten about in a month's time, so at most you may have a month's worth of premium renewals cancelled.

I will continue to go with whoever offers me the best deal, outsourced or not. You think that paying higher prices for things will help us as we enter a recession? We can expect to see a lot more of these types of outsourcings over the next 12 months as companies try to cut some of the fat as profits drops.
It's part of the standard cycle, we've just never seen it before.

gixerfixer · 24-06-2008 09:43AM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Lifer working in a cushy admin job in financial services? She's not going to like the real world.

Not the company's fault.

"Only" Last March you say? As in over a year ago? Before the credit crisis, meltdown in the financial sector, and the collapse of Bear Stearns? Well, clearly nothing changed in the interim.....

As many people have commented already - Irish people with a
DEY TUUUKK URRRRR JUUUBBBBS attitude? Irony central, last stop.

Emmm.No last March....as in 4 months ago:rolleyes:.Maybe you should go back to school and repeat your leaving as i cant see how you passed with maths like that,although with an attitude like that your more than likely studying for your junior cert.

Board-in-work · 24-06-2008 09:45AM

Not renewing your insurance poilcy because the call center is in India? This is totally absurd. This "We won't be able to understand all these Indian's" attitude is thinly disguised racism.
Sounds like an Irish jobs for Irish workers campaign. What do we do? Have the call center in Dublin, and not employ any Indians or Polish, or Scottish? Because we "can't understand them, and it's a bother to explain anything". We allready have lots of foreign workers working in our Irish call centers don't we?

JohnCleary · 24-06-2008 10:07AM

Board-in-work wrote: »

Not renewing your insurance poilcy because the call center is in India? This is totally absurd. This "We won't be able to understand all these Indian's" attitude is thinly disguised racism.

No, no it's not. It's because some people can't understand their accent.

As I said before myself, only reason I was with Hibernian was that I could walk into their local offices and talk to a person face to face. I'm with Quinn atm and was considering going back to Hibernian for the reason above, think i'll stick with Quinn now because of cheapest prices.

If Hibernian were able to beat Quinn in the future, then who knows, I may consider it. But I don't think this move to India is to reduce premiums, it's to increase profits

All IMHO

SimpleSam06 · 24-06-2008 10:07AM

phantom_lord wrote: »

The single and only reason for the existence of a company is to maximise profits, the company report at the end of the year shows a nice balance sheet of profit and loss

To an extent that's true, but there is good and bad business practise. The structuring of a lot of companies makes short term profit margins more valuable, but companies that keep the longer term view will have an innate advantage over them, ultimately leading to the demise of the short termism in corporate culture. Might take a few hundred years to cycle through the food chain, unfortunately.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

whens the last time you saw the profitability report for any of the major insurance companies in ireland? we are currently at the bottom of the insurance cycle. Rates are currently unprofitable and unsustainable and WILL increase in the near future. Personal lines rates have more than halves since 2003 (on average) and some commercial lines premiums have come down even more.

Heh, the major insurance companies in Ireland have been operating in what is essentially a cartel structure for years, with implied non-compete agreements that enable them to raise prices as a group. Quinn started outside this structure, offering lower rates, and still made enough money to open up a power supply competitor to the ESB, if I recall reading a while ago.

I was researching their profit margins at the start of the year, and I have to say that given the opportunity, I would be right in there behind Quinn. Insurance is a licence to print money.

Run_to_da_hills · 24-06-2008 10:13AM

Board-in-work wrote: »

Not renewing your insurance poilcy because the call center is in India? This is totally absurd. This "We won't be able to understand all these Indian's" attitude is thinly disguised racism.
Sounds like an Irish jobs for Irish workers campaign. What do we do? Have the call center in Dublin, and not employ any Indians or Polish, or Scottish? Because we "can't understand them, and it's a bother to explain anything". We allready have lots of foreign workers working in our Irish call centers don't we?

It’s to do with setting the trend of outsourcing admin to a foreign country and nothing to do with racism. I don't mind chatting to a foreign national in an office in Dublin because I know he / she is supporting the exchequer. The person you are chatting to in India is giving duck egg to our economy. IE a selfish move that will eventually hit us hard in the long run.

JohnCleary · 24-06-2008 10:16AM

Just had confirmation that Claims dept is definately moving to India... good luck with getting your money in a hurry in the event of a claim

chuci · 24-06-2008 10:29AM

god im from cork people barely understand what i say anyway not a mind if i have to try and explain it to someone in india. tried doing it once with ryanair and i came off the phone 15e less and no booking number for my flight. so im can imagine trying to explain how a crash happened at the corner of pana.

TwoShedsJackson · 24-06-2008 10:41AM

So far Indian call centres are 0 for 5 of different ones I've been shunted on to in the past, in work and for personal stuff. Useless. A couple of companies we deal with have moved their accounts section to Slovakia and since then it's nigh on impossible to get paid for anything we send them, so we just closed their account and make the reps use their credit cards.

So it's not jsut the Indians

seamus · 24-06-2008 10:48AM

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if companies do this now as part of a "grand plan". Most companies know that people don't like talking to foreign call centres*, and then when you outsource, the standard of customer service plummets.

1. Older companies tend to have "biddies" in customer support. People who have been there forever, are rude to customers, get paid way too much, and are nigh on impossible to get rid of.

2. So you outsource to a cheaper company, wait for natural wastage to clear most people and make the biddies redundant.

3. Hang on for 3 or 4 years, save the money you spent making people redundant. You'll see some customers drop off because of the customer service, but not all.

4. Return your support sections to Ireland. Hire people on less favourable contracts than before, with no chance of allowing people to become "biddies".

5. Fanfare your triumphant return of a friendly Irish support base.

6. Profit.

*Except UK ones. I have so much time for UK call centres. They rock

bill_ashmount · 24-06-2008 10:54AM

My last job went to Bangalore. My current one probably will to in the next couple of years.

Computers suck....

Neamhshuntasach · 24-06-2008 10:56AM

I don't get some people's attitudes.

So because a percentage of Irish people in the past have emigrated around the world due to famine, oppression and our economic state, the Irish people of today should always sit back and let other people take our jobs without complaint? How does complaining make the Irish of today Hypocrites? Just because i share the same nationality as those who emigrated and took jobs in foreign lands doesn't mean that i am forever indebted to give up mine because of my countryman's past actions.

The logic that we are hypocrites is absolutely ridiculous.

And so what if people work for a large multinational company over here. Them companies are not over here to reduce costs in their homeland. A lot of the American companies are here to get access to the European market. That argument is also stupid.

AARRRGH · 24-06-2008 11:35AM

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Computers suck....

If only...

4Xcut · 24-06-2008 11:43AM

Board-in-work wrote: »

Not renewing your insurance poilcy because the call center is in India? This is totally absurd. This "We won't be able to understand all these Indian's" attitude is thinly disguised racism.
Sounds like an Irish jobs for Irish workers campaign. What do we do? Have the call center in Dublin, and not employ any Indians or Polish, or Scottish? Because we "can't understand them, and it's a bother to explain anything". We allready have lots of foreign workers working in our Irish call centers don't we?

It is not racism. It is a fact that different people in different parts of the world have different accents. It is also a fact that some of these accents can be quite different from each other. Couple this with the sensitive nature of insurance information(in that it must be correct or can have serous legal ramifications) and you can see where people are coming from. I personally wouldn't deal with outsourced insurance. I have dealt with outsourced tech support and it was annoying, insurance forget about it. Not a chance i'm risking someone hearing a deatail wrong.

Note for all the people who will call racism: I'm sure that they have a tough time understanding us too, guess what, they aren't asking us to deal with sensitive financial information that could have serious consequences if it is incorrect.

Yes, we do have lots of foreign employees in Irish call centres, and if they have poor English, it is annoying. Just the way that it would probebly be annoying for a german with no or very little french trying to explain an important concept to a frenchman with no or very little german.

Trev M · 24-06-2008 11:46AM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

I don't get some people's attitudes.

So because a percentage of Irish people in the past have emigrated around the world due to famine, oppression and our economic state, the Irish people of today should always sit back and let other people take our jobs without complaint? How does complaining make the Irish of today Hypocrites? Just because i share the same nationality as those who emigrated and took jobs in foreign lands doesn't mean that i am forever indebted to give up mine because of my countryman's past actions.

The logic that we are hypocrites is absolutely ridiculous.

And so what if people work for a large multinational company over here. Them companies are not over here to reduce costs in their homeland. A lot of the American companies are here to get access to the European market. That argument is also stupid.

+1 good post.

remember folks you live in a society , not just an economy.

newestUser · 24-06-2008 11:53AM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

I don't get some people's attitudes.

So because a percentage of Irish people in the past have emigrated around the world due to famine, oppression and our economic state, the Irish people of today should always sit back and let other people take our jobs without complaint? How does complaining make the Irish of today Hypocrites? Just because i share the same nationality as those who emigrated and took jobs in foreign lands doesn't mean that i am forever indebted to give up mine because of my countryman's past actions.

The logic that we are hypocrites is absolutely ridiculous.

And so what if people work for a large multinational company over here. Them companies are not over here to reduce costs in their homeland. A lot of the American companies are here to get access to the European market. That argument is also stupid.

These jobs weren't *taken*. It's not like 'the English' or someone came in and "took" the jobs at gunpoint. The work is being transferred over to another country with lower costs and an educated workforce. We were the beneficiaries of such reasoning before, and were proud to boast of our wonderful economy's ability to attract FDI, and how the rest of the world loved us, blah blah blah, so complaining now about this action by Hibernia is *totally* hyprocritical on the parts of large sections of Irish society.

And in any case, what do you propose doing to prevent this? Handcuffing companies working in Ireland to this country and our people by some means? Goodbye FDI.

lafors · 24-06-2008 11:57AM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

I don't get some people's attitudes.

So because a percentage of Irish people in the past have emigrated around the world due to famine, oppression and our economic state, the Irish people of today should always sit back and let other people take our jobs without complaint? How does complaining make the Irish of today Hypocrites? Just because i share the same nationality as those who emigrated and took jobs in foreign lands doesn't mean that i am forever indebted to give up mine because of my countryman's past actions.

The logic that we are hypocrites is absolutely ridiculous.

And so what if people work for a large multinational company over here. Them companies are not over here to reduce costs in their homeland. A lot of the American companies are here to get access to the European market. That argument is also stupid.

+1
Thanks Neamhshuntasach, I didn't get time to reply after being called a hypocrite earlier, don't need to now as you've put it exactly as I would have liked to!

Colonel Sanders · 24-06-2008 12:59PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I was researching their profit margins at the start of the year, and I have to say that given the opportunity, I would be right in there behind Quinn. Insurance is a licence to print money.

As I said, I see profitability reports of general insurance companies every quarter. If rates don't increase companies will be lucky to return much of a margin over the risk free rate on capital backing business (certainly not anywhere near enough to compensate investors for the riskiness of writing the business).

As a proxy look at FBD's shareprice (a good proxy as they are listed in ireland, write Irish business and are a good barometer of profitability in the irish market. most of the others are owned by global insurance groups and as such Ireland would only account for a tiny fraction of their business). It is currently 40% lower than its 52 week high. Go back 18 months and it was about twice the level it is now. if business is so profitable then this looks a gilt edged chance for you to buy.

Radharc na Sleibhte · 24-06-2008 01:17PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Will they though? My own feeling is that with the cost of motoring on the up, people will shop around, and if Hibernian are competitive they will go with them irrespective of where call centre is located.

We've had numerous people already saying don't put me with Hibernian.
(I work in Insurance Broker).

Me thinks Hibernian will do a half arsed move out and back track.

SimpleSam06 · 24-06-2008 01:18PM

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Go back 18 months and it was about twice the level it is now. if business is so profitable then this looks a gilt edged chance for you to buy.

Oh I wouldn't buy, I've sat across enough boardroom tables from management in insurance companies to know I don't want into the old boys club and all that brings with it. I'd come in from the wings. Did your quarterly profit reports include VHI's 112 million euro surplus by any chance?

SV · 24-06-2008 01:23PM

Was going to have this insurance policy with them.

Not happening, I'll pay the extra 200 or whatever a year and go with someone else.

Radharc na Sleibhte · 24-06-2008 01:25PM

Really?
Whatever about a few bob but €200?

That is the attitude we've been getting thus far.

SV · 24-06-2008 01:29PM

MikeySligo wrote: »

Really?
Whatever about a few bob but €200?

That is the attitude we've been getting thus far.

Definitely.

The policy itself is going to be 2100 anyway so 200 isn't a lot added on for the principle of it.

Hibernian to shift admin to India. I won't insure with them in future.

Comments