Provisional License Drivers off the road from next week

RATM · 23-06-2008 11:40AM #1

Well this time next week the law on provisional license drivers will be enforced and they will have to have a fully licensed driver beside them at all times.

So Im guessing those who are going to continue to break the law will take down their L plates and thus make it more dangerous on the roads as other drivers can't distinguish that they are learners. But can the Gardai really police this effectively? And does this now mean that if a provisional license driver is in a crash without complying with the supervising driver rule that insurance companies can refuse to pay out? Will it be used as a targeting measure for boy racers?

Personally I reckon its a long time overdue, I made up my mind on this one when Mammy O'Rourke came on the radio last year trying to defend a constituent who was on her 5th licence and was giving out because the new rules meant she couldn't drive special needs children ( not her own )to school. Like FFS you think its ok to drive other peoples kids to school with a learner license?

Canis Lupus · 23-06-2008 11:49AM

If it was up to me I'd make it a requirement that before you can get a driving test you must have completed a mandatory number of lessons.

Then you can go for a test to get your licence but be on probation for a year or like what you do in NI and the UK.

Up to sitting and pasing your test you should be accompanied by a fully licenced driver.

Whilst I've mellowed in so far as I now appreciate this new rule causes upset for people all I can think of is rules are rules.

You don't have a FULL licence you shouldn't be driving. There is no wriggle room here despite your opinion on how proficient you may be at driving.

cance · 23-06-2008 11:55AM

I say get em off the road for good, no more drivers at all! roads are full enough.

D.S. · 23-06-2008 11:55AM

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

Deedsie · 23-06-2008 12:02PM

Do ye think Gardai will be broad in the drivers they check? Or will it just be young people who dont look like they would have passed there tests yet? Lots of older Mid twenties - Thirties without full Licences.

23-06-2008 12:02PM

This post has been deleted.

ejmaztec · 23-06-2008 12:04PM

D.S. wrote: »

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

Doesn't this happen anyway with insurance companies? Sometimes it's bad enough trying to get money off them when you haven't broken the law.

_feedback_ · 23-06-2008 12:07PM

Oh, another one of these threads.....

*yawns

SimpleSam06 · 23-06-2008 12:09PM

The Scientist wrote: »

Its high time the RSA outsourced the Driving Test though. +6 months waiting lists are farcical.

Bingo, its all well and good saying you need to have a full test to get on the roads, but if a full test simply is not available (for up to a year in some cases), the rules need to be changed or the means of getting a test need to be changed. Whats with those delays anyway, I heard rumblings that some sort of union threatened to strike if anyone new was brought in to run the tests.

ergonomics · 23-06-2008 12:12PM

The Scientist wrote: »

Even though i'm a provisional licence holder I fully agree with these plans.
If this makes Irish roads safer then i'm all for it.

Its high time the RSA outsourced the Driving Test though. +6 months waiting lists are farcical.

Ummm, have you not heard of the SGS company?

Ciaran500 · 23-06-2008 12:12PM

Driving tests are outsourced to SGS and waiting times are down to 4-8 weeks.

ejmaztec · 23-06-2008 12:19PM

Yes, it seems that the waiting time has reduced so much that learners are being caught on the hop by not being fit to take the test because they haven't had enough lessons.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-of-ldrivers-ignore-test-deadline-1418822.html

Spud83 · 23-06-2008 12:22PM

Regarding insurance companies. As far as I am aware you are still insured for 3rd party claims. Meaning that if you are in a crash your insurance company will still pay out for any damages or injuries you cause to anyone else. They will not pay out on any damages or injuries you incur.

They can also then cancel your policy and bring you to court to recoup anything they pay out. I think they bring you to court under a breach of contract, not sure how many insurance companies bother doing this probably depends on the size of the claim they had to pay out on. You will also find it very very difficult to get insured again, and if you do your premium would be massive.

As for the rule itself, there can’t really be any valid arguments against it now. As the law change is only affecting second provisional drivers, everybody on a second provisional should have been able to get tested by now, I know of some people who have sat two tests at this stage. Also any second provisional license holder has been holding a license for at least two years anyway. So there is no excuse for them not having a license now. It is only right that you should only be allowed on the road after proving that you are capable of handling the responsibility.

I don’t really agree with the new 6 month waiting period between obtain a learners permit and sitting your test. I can’t see what this achieves. Just because you make them wait six months does not mean they are going to practice for 6 months.

Supercell · 23-06-2008 12:28PM

It will be the usual farce, there will be a temporary "blitz" for the first weekend and then it will back to seeing maybe 1 in 100 cars with an L plate on it despite 1 in 7 drivers not having a full license.

Insurance companies should refuse to pay out if unaccompanied (to the provisional driver) and an instant 10 points or something on the provision license holder if they are caught driving unaccompanied.

Ciaran500 · 23-06-2008 12:29PM

Supercell wrote: »

Insurance companies should refuse to pay out if unaccompanied (to the provisional driver)

Pretty sure they already do.

pippip · 23-06-2008 12:32PM

Whats more worrying about this whole issue is the amount of people I know and have heard about that have passed there test recently and are by no means good enough to be on the roads. and when I mean there bad there bloody awful drivers.

I have no doubt in my mind that they are passing drivers for the sake of reducing that waiting time and putting the rest of us at serious risk.

Spud83 · 23-06-2008 12:32PM

If insurance companies refuse to pay out fully isn't that a bit harsh on any of the other parties involved. If I get hit by a learner I know I would want to be claiming off their insurance not mine.

That’s why the pay out 3rd party claims only, and they have the right to sue the insured for breach of contract.

kraggy · 23-06-2008 12:34PM

D.S. wrote: »

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

As far as I know, Quinn won't pay out if a learner has a crash (their fault) and is not displaying L plates.

seamus · 23-06-2008 12:38PM

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

That’s why the pay out 3rd party claims only, and they have the right to sue the insured for breach of contract.

Actually, they pay out 3rd party because the law requires them to.

You can be sure that if an insurance company can get out of paying a claim, they will do it, regardless of who's been injured or how severely they've been injured.

ongarite · 23-06-2008 12:52PM

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

Toots · 23-06-2008 01:10PM

ongarite wrote: »

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

+1, it's not like this new system was introduced overnight! When I booked my OH's test with SGS, they asked could we come in the following monday!! I asked for a date a little further away just so we could get more practice in

And this was last April at the SGS deansgrange BTW

DonJose · 23-06-2008 01:13PM

ongarite wrote: »

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

+2 Plenty of time to get their test booked. When 200,000+ learner drivers apply for their test after the new legislation is introduced, of course there will be a fukking backlog, didn't the online application website crash that very same day due to the huge number of visitors.

Mossy Monk · 23-06-2008 01:24PM

RATM wrote: »

So Im guessing those who are going to continue to break the law will take down their L plates and thus make it more dangerous on the roads as other drivers can't distinguish that they are learners.

You must remember that there are plenty of fully licenced drivers who are lethal also.

rogue-entity · 23-06-2008 01:45PM

pippip wrote: »

Whats more worrying about this whole issue is the amount of people I know and have heard about that have passed there test recently and are by no means good enough to be on the roads. and when I mean there bad there bloody awful drivers.

Its probably more lack of experience, rather than lack of competence. I wasnt a great driver when I started off on my own, with a Learner licence, and I had had 10 lessons. I applied for my full licence after I got my car, and got another 10 lessons before my test, two of them on the same day as my test, doing nothing but practise tests. I got my test on the first attempt and got my licence. But I wouldnt have called myself an excellent driver by any stretch.

I was driving home from college one day, and I was crashed into by a small truck as I was pulling out of a junction. I didnt see it because a bus had parked on my left, obscuring the view. I thought I was safe to pull out, but I didnt check again to be sure, and bang. Fortunatly most of the damage done was cosmetic.. I lost my left wing, headlight and radiator expansion and bumper. But the car was drivable and not a writeoff. Cost me a lot to fix it, and I settled privately with the other party to avoid going through the insurance.

The point is, your licence doesnt make you a good driver, your experience driving is part of it. You could get your provisional, apply for your full, get 10 lessons before it and pass your test, and be more of a danger on the road, than driver of 5 years on his 5th provisional who was too lazy to apply for his full licence, and applies and passes the next day.

Mossy Monk wrote: »

You must remember that there are plenty of fully licenced drivers who are lethal also.

There are plenty of fully licenced drivers who flaunt the laws as it suits them, driving while on their mobile phones, driving after a few jars etc. And lets not forget that amnesty back in the 80s where just about everyone was just handed a full licence without ever taking a test.

As for the Learner thing.. no, they have no excuse. Not with the waiting list as short as it is now. If they take the test and fail it, then I can have sympathy for them, because at least they got off their arse and tried instead of whinging about how unfair it will be that they cannot drive on their own without a driver in the car with them. There are no shortage of good driving instructors that they can get lessons with and get their test. For those living in the Waterford area, I highly recommend Kieren Kennedy on the Dunmore Road. He thought me, and it was money well spent.

jester77 · 23-06-2008 01:53PM

I think the whole system is a joke. Over here you have to join a driving school, attend classes, pass your theory, do life saving course, eye test, x amount of hours in different conditions (night time, motorways, countryside, city, etc) and then pass your test. All this takes about 2 months of going to classes 3 times a week. The only time you are allowed in a car is when you with the instructor and you must do your test with the instructor and tester both in the car.

Don't see why they can't introduce a similar system, give the current provisional drivers 12 months to get sorted or else sign up to a school and be done with the crazy system of allowing anyone without the required skills out on the road.

muckwarrior · 23-06-2008 01:54PM

Has anyone got any statistics on what percentage of serious accidents involve learner drivers?

Despite being able to drive for years I never bothered me hole applying for a license till a few weeks ago. Even though it's quite annoying I have to say I agree with the legislation being enforced (except having to wait 6 months to sit your test :mad:).

In my experience most L driver think they have an automatic right to drive even if they can't pass a test, which is of course bull****. That being said though I know people who repeatedly failed their test yet were never involved in an accident and were generally quite safe drivers. That's why I'm not convinced that this will actually do anything at all to improve road safety.

Nuttzz · 23-06-2008 01:54PM

My mother got her licence without a test just applied for it, She had a HGV licence until the 80's, her driving terrorises me!

copeyhagen · 23-06-2008 01:55PM

i can honestly say i have seen a lot more dangerous driving from full licence drivers on a daily basis than learners.

Pigwidgeon · 23-06-2008 01:59PM

i'm a learner driver and i totally agree with the new law. It is ridiculous, that you go take a test to prove you're competent to drive, fail the test and drive home.

and everyone complaining that they have to drive to work and they've no way now, they should have thought of this before taking the job, it was always illegal (unless on second provisional)

I know in germany they have to do a certain amount of hours in different situation, say 12 in country driving, 12 in city, 12 in night time etc. that seems like a much better system to me anyway.

techdiver · 23-06-2008 02:45PM

I applied for my driving test on the 28th of April so as to have my test done in time for the end of June deadline. Since applying I have not even received a date for my test even though I applied 7 weeks ago. According to the "Pass Rates and Waiting Times", document on the RSA website it claims that the waiting time in my area is 7 weeks. Now I am no mathematician but I do believe that time has come and gone for me.
If I was to receive my test date today, there would be at least another 4 week wait to be tested! To me this seems like the RSA are deliberately falsifying their figures to meet the commitment made by the RSA/Minister of transport to have tests "On Demand", by the June 30th deadline. I am not the only one who has noticed this as my girlfriend has encountered the same scenario in a different test centre.
Has anyone else experienced this also and if so please write in and let me know, as I think the minister and the RSA are misleading the public in order to claim they have met their targets for June 30th.

Spud83 · 23-06-2008 02:52PM

techdiver wrote: »

I applied for my driving test on the 28th of April so as to have my test done in time for the end of June deadline. Since applying I have not even received a date for my test even though I applied 7 weeks ago. According to the "Pass Rates and Waiting Times", document on the RSA website it claims that the waiting time in my area is 7 weeks. Now I am no mathematician but I do believe that time has come and gone for me.
If I was to receive my test date today, there would be at least another 4 week wait to be tested! To me this seems like the RSA are deliberately falsifying their figures to meet the commitment made by the RSA/Minister of transport to have tests "On Demand", by the June 30th deadline. I am not the only one who has noticed this as my girlfriend has encountered the same scenario in a different test centre.
Has anyone else experienced this also and if so please write in and let me know, as I think the minister and the RSA are misleading the public in order to claim they have met their targets for June 30th.

Firstly, did you receive a confirmation letter stating that they had recevied your application?

Secondly, have you tried ringing them?

Thirdly, its hard to have sympothy for you when you waited till as late as possible to arrange your test.

Fourthly the times on the web site are an average time not minimum not maximum.

Provisional License Drivers off the road from next week

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