Provisional License Drivers off the road from next week

RATM

Well this time next week the law on provisional license drivers will be enforced and they will have to have a fully licensed driver beside them at all times.

So Im guessing those who are going to continue to break the law will take down their L plates and thus make it more dangerous on the roads as other drivers can't distinguish that they are learners. But can the Gardai really police this effectively? And does this now mean that if a provisional license driver is in a crash without complying with the supervising driver rule that insurance companies can refuse to pay out? Will it be used as a targeting measure for boy racers?

Personally I reckon its a long time overdue, I made up my mind on this one when Mammy O'Rourke came on the radio last year trying to defend a constituent who was on her 5th licence and was giving out because the new rules meant she couldn't drive special needs children ( not her own )to school. Like FFS you think its ok to drive other peoples kids to school with a learner license?

Canis Lupus

If it was up to me I'd make it a requirement that before you can get a driving test you must have completed a mandatory number of lessons.

Then you can go for a test to get your licence but be on probation for a year or like what you do in NI and the UK.

Up to sitting and pasing your test you should be accompanied by a fully licenced driver.

Whilst I've mellowed in so far as I now appreciate this new rule causes upset for people all I can think of is rules are rules.

You don't have a FULL licence you shouldn't be driving. There is no wriggle room here despite your opinion on how proficient you may be at driving.

cance

I say get em off the road for good, no more drivers at all! roads are full enough.

D.S.

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

Deedsie

Do ye think Gardai will be broad in the drivers they check? Or will it just be young people who dont look like they would have passed there tests yet? Lots of older Mid twenties - Thirties without full Licences.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

ejmaztec

D.S. wrote: »

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

Doesn't this happen anyway with insurance companies? Sometimes it's bad enough trying to get money off them when you haven't broken the law.

_feedback_

Oh, another one of these threads.....















*yawns

SimpleSam06

The Scientist wrote: »

Its high time the RSA outsourced the Driving Test though. +6 months waiting lists are farcical.

Bingo, its all well and good saying you need to have a full test to get on the roads, but if a full test simply is not available (for up to a year in some cases), the rules need to be changed or the means of getting a test need to be changed. Whats with those delays anyway, I heard rumblings that some sort of union threatened to strike if anyone new was brought in to run the tests.

ergonomics

The Scientist wrote: »

Even though i'm a provisional licence holder I fully agree with these plans.
If this makes Irish roads safer then i'm all for it.

Its high time the RSA outsourced the Driving Test though. +6 months waiting lists are farcical.

Ummm, have you not heard of the SGS company?

Ciaran500

Driving tests are outsourced to SGS and waiting times are down to 4-8 weeks.

ejmaztec

Yes, it seems that the waiting time has reduced so much that learners are being caught on the hop by not being fit to take the test because they haven't had enough lessons.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-of-ldrivers-ignore-test-deadline-1418822.html

Spud83

Regarding insurance companies. As far as I am aware you are still insured for 3rd party claims. Meaning that if you are in a crash your insurance company will still pay out for any damages or injuries you cause to anyone else. They will not pay out on any damages or injuries you incur.

They can also then cancel your policy and bring you to court to recoup anything they pay out. I think they bring you to court under a breach of contract, not sure how many insurance companies bother doing this probably depends on the size of the claim they had to pay out on. You will also find it very very difficult to get insured again, and if you do your premium would be massive.

As for the rule itself, there can’t really be any valid arguments against it now. As the law change is only affecting second provisional drivers, everybody on a second provisional should have been able to get tested by now, I know of some people who have sat two tests at this stage. Also any second provisional license holder has been holding a license for at least two years anyway. So there is no excuse for them not having a license now. It is only right that you should only be allowed on the road after proving that you are capable of handling the responsibility.

I don’t really agree with the new 6 month waiting period between obtain a learners permit and sitting your test. I can’t see what this achieves. Just because you make them wait six months does not mean they are going to practice for 6 months.

Supercell

It will be the usual farce, there will be a temporary "blitz" for the first weekend and then it will back to seeing maybe 1 in 100 cars with an L plate on it despite 1 in 7 drivers not having a full license.

Insurance companies should refuse to pay out if unaccompanied (to the provisional driver) and an instant 10 points or something on the provision license holder if they are caught driving unaccompanied.

Ciaran500

Supercell wrote: »

Insurance companies should refuse to pay out if unaccompanied (to the provisional driver)

Pretty sure they already do.

pippip

Whats more worrying about this whole issue is the amount of people I know and have heard about that have passed there test recently and are by no means good enough to be on the roads. and when I mean there bad there bloody awful drivers.

I have no doubt in my mind that they are passing drivers for the sake of reducing that waiting time and putting the rest of us at serious risk.

Spud83

If insurance companies refuse to pay out fully isn't that a bit harsh on any of the other parties involved. If I get hit by a learner I know I would want to be claiming off their insurance not mine.

That’s why the pay out 3rd party claims only, and they have the right to sue the insured for breach of contract.

kraggy

D.S. wrote: »

The only this can work and bed in properly is if insurance companies can refuse to pay claims to drivers who break the rules. If they can't, it will never work practically as drivers will simply take down the L plates..

As far as I know, Quinn won't pay out if a learner has a crash (their fault) and is not displaying L plates.

seamus

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

That’s why the pay out 3rd party claims only, and they have the right to sue the insured for breach of contract.

Actually, they pay out 3rd party because the law requires them to.

You can be sure that if an insurance company can get out of paying a claim, they will do it, regardless of who's been injured or how severely they've been injured.

ongarite

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

Toots

ongarite wrote: »

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

+1, it's not like this new system was introduced overnight! When I booked my OH's test with SGS, they asked could we come in the following monday!! I asked for a date a little further away just so we could get more practice in And this was last April at the SGS deansgrange BTW

DonJose

ongarite wrote: »

No sympathy for them. They have had 9 months to sort their sh1t out and get lessons and pass the test. Waiting times for test are down to 2 months for quite a while so that excuse don't cut it anymore.

+2 Plenty of time to get their test booked. When 200,000+ learner drivers apply for their test after the new legislation is introduced, of course there will be a fukking backlog, didn't the online application website crash that very same day due to the huge number of visitors.

Mossy Monk

RATM wrote: »

So Im guessing those who are going to continue to break the law will take down their L plates and thus make it more dangerous on the roads as other drivers can't distinguish that they are learners.

You must remember that there are plenty of fully licenced drivers who are lethal also.

rogue-entity

pippip wrote: »

Whats more worrying about this whole issue is the amount of people I know and have heard about that have passed there test recently and are by no means good enough to be on the roads. and when I mean there bad there bloody awful drivers.

Its probably more lack of experience, rather than lack of competence. I wasnt a great driver when I started off on my own, with a Learner licence, and I had had 10 lessons. I applied for my full licence after I got my car, and got another 10 lessons before my test, two of them on the same day as my test, doing nothing but practise tests. I got my test on the first attempt and got my licence. But I wouldnt have called myself an excellent driver by any stretch.

I was driving home from college one day, and I was crashed into by a small truck as I was pulling out of a junction. I didnt see it because a bus had parked on my left, obscuring the view. I thought I was safe to pull out, but I didnt check again to be sure, and bang. Fortunatly most of the damage done was cosmetic.. I lost my left wing, headlight and radiator expansion and bumper. But the car was drivable and not a writeoff. Cost me a lot to fix it, and I settled privately with the other party to avoid going through the insurance.

The point is, your licence doesnt make you a good driver, your experience driving is part of it. You could get your provisional, apply for your full, get 10 lessons before it and pass your test, and be more of a danger on the road, than driver of 5 years on his 5th provisional who was too lazy to apply for his full licence, and applies and passes the next day.

Mossy Monk wrote: »

You must remember that there are plenty of fully licenced drivers who are lethal also.

There are plenty of fully licenced drivers who flaunt the laws as it suits them, driving while on their mobile phones, driving after a few jars etc. And lets not forget that amnesty back in the 80s where just about everyone was just handed a full licence without ever taking a test.

As for the Learner thing.. no, they have no excuse. Not with the waiting list as short as it is now. If they take the test and fail it, then I can have sympathy for them, because at least they got off their arse and tried instead of whinging about how unfair it will be that they cannot drive on their own without a driver in the car with them. There are no shortage of good driving instructors that they can get lessons with and get their test. For those living in the Waterford area, I highly recommend Kieren Kennedy on the Dunmore Road. He thought me, and it was money well spent.

jester77

I think the whole system is a joke. Over here you have to join a driving school, attend classes, pass your theory, do life saving course, eye test, x amount of hours in different conditions (night time, motorways, countryside, city, etc) and then pass your test. All this takes about 2 months of going to classes 3 times a week. The only time you are allowed in a car is when you with the instructor and you must do your test with the instructor and tester both in the car.

Don't see why they can't introduce a similar system, give the current provisional drivers 12 months to get sorted or else sign up to a school and be done with the crazy system of allowing anyone without the required skills out on the road.

muckwarrior

Has anyone got any statistics on what percentage of serious accidents involve learner drivers?

Despite being able to drive for years I never bothered me hole applying for a license till a few weeks ago. Even though it's quite annoying I have to say I agree with the legislation being enforced (except having to wait 6 months to sit your test :mad:).

In my experience most L driver think they have an automatic right to drive even if they can't pass a test, which is of course bull****. That being said though I know people who repeatedly failed their test yet were never involved in an accident and were generally quite safe drivers. That's why I'm not convinced that this will actually do anything at all to improve road safety.

Nuttzz

My mother got her licence without a test just applied for it, She had a HGV licence until the 80's, her driving terrorises me!

copeyhagen

i can honestly say i have seen a lot more dangerous driving from full licence drivers on a daily basis than learners.

Pigwidgeon

i'm a learner driver and i totally agree with the new law. It is ridiculous, that you go take a test to prove you're competent to drive, fail the test and drive home.

and everyone complaining that they have to drive to work and they've no way now, they should have thought of this before taking the job, it was always illegal (unless on second provisional)

I know in germany they have to do a certain amount of hours in different situation, say 12 in country driving, 12 in city, 12 in night time etc. that seems like a much better system to me anyway.

techdiver

I applied for my driving test on the 28th of April so as to have my test done in time for the end of June deadline. Since applying I have not even received a date for my test even though I applied 7 weeks ago. According to the "Pass Rates and Waiting Times", document on the RSA website it claims that the waiting time in my area is 7 weeks. Now I am no mathematician but I do believe that time has come and gone for me.
If I was to receive my test date today, there would be at least another 4 week wait to be tested! To me this seems like the RSA are deliberately falsifying their figures to meet the commitment made by the RSA/Minister of transport to have tests "On Demand", by the June 30th deadline. I am not the only one who has noticed this as my girlfriend has encountered the same scenario in a different test centre.
Has anyone else experienced this also and if so please write in and let me know, as I think the minister and the RSA are misleading the public in order to claim they have met their targets for June 30th.

Spud83

techdiver wrote: »

I applied for my driving test on the 28th of April so as to have my test done in time for the end of June deadline. Since applying I have not even received a date for my test even though I applied 7 weeks ago. According to the "Pass Rates and Waiting Times", document on the RSA website it claims that the waiting time in my area is 7 weeks. Now I am no mathematician but I do believe that time has come and gone for me.
If I was to receive my test date today, there would be at least another 4 week wait to be tested! To me this seems like the RSA are deliberately falsifying their figures to meet the commitment made by the RSA/Minister of transport to have tests "On Demand", by the June 30th deadline. I am not the only one who has noticed this as my girlfriend has encountered the same scenario in a different test centre.
Has anyone else experienced this also and if so please write in and let me know, as I think the minister and the RSA are misleading the public in order to claim they have met their targets for June 30th.

Firstly, did you receive a confirmation letter stating that they had recevied your application?

Secondly, have you tried ringing them?

Thirdly, its hard to have sympothy for you when you waited till as late as possible to arrange your test.

Fourthly the times on the web site are an average time not minimum not maximum.

Naos

Although I fully agree with the new legislation, the six month waiting time is a bit harsh.

Does anyone know if this can be reduced or is it an automatic six month wait inbetween tests?

techdiver

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Firstly, did you receive a confirmation letter stating that they had recevied your application?

Secondly, have you tried ringing them?

Thirdly, its hard to have sympothy for you when you waited till as late as possible to arrange your test.

Fourthly the times on the web site are an average time not minimum not maximum.

I did get the confirmation. I've sent them numerous emails without reply and I have tried on a number of accessions to call them but the phones are always engaged! What more can I do?

And how are these averages calculated? Probably not by any mathematical system known to man, because there are many other people who are in the same boat as me also, so who are the winners in this waiting game? Because between application and sitting of the test the minimum time I will have been waiting is 13 weeks!

Also in today’s independent their is an article dealing with the situation in which their is a quote stating - "However he said any driver who needs a test before the law changes on June 30 will be accommodated, even at short notice." Forgive me if I'm annoyed that this isn't happening!

Spud83

techdiver wrote: »

I did get the confirmation. I've sent them numerous emails without reply and I have tried on a number of accessions to call them but the phones are always engaged! What more can I do?

And how are these averages calculated? Probably not by any mathematical system known to man, because there are many other people who are in the same boat as me also, so who are the winners in this waiting game? Because between application and sitting of the test the minimum time I will have been waiting is 13 weeks!

Also in today’s independent their is an article dealing with the situation in which their is a quote stating - "However he said any driver who needs a test before the law changes on June 30 will be accommodated, even at short notice." Forgive me if I'm annoyed that this isn't happening!

Alre I would forget about trying to email them, I would however keep trying to ring them. Have never heard of their phones being constantly engaged.

I dont know how the averages are calculated I just pointed it out they aren't the minimum/maximum times. Some people get a test quicker by being put on cancellation lists etc, some people end up waiting longer(no idea why).

You haven't been accommodadted because you have not managed to contact them, again I would say you should be trying a couple of times a day if driving is that important too you.

As for the quote I believe that is in realtion to people on second provisionals who need their car for work. Note this does not mean need their car to get to work but who need their car/license to sue during work i.e salesperson, tradesman etc etc.

What license are you on?

maclad

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Regarding insurance companies. As far as I am aware you are still insured for 3rd party claims. Meaning that if you are in a crash your insurance company will still pay out for any damages or injuries you cause to anyone else. They will not pay out on any damages or injuries you incur.

Just a note on this, whatever about other insurance companies Hibernian paid out when I had an accident. I am on my 1st provisional and didn't have a full licensed driver with me, I had L plates up but the windscreen was shattered and the rear window was gone ,I think the guards were looking for the L plates as they were def looking for something. Car was totalled and i'm taking delivery of a brand new one next month:D. The Guards on the scene never said anything about me only being on a provisional mind you they just seemed totally shocked that we just walked out of it. The insurance co. never once commented on the fact that I was driving unaccompanied.

techdiver

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Alre I would forget about trying to email them, I would however keep trying to ring them. Have never heard of their phones being constantly engaged.

I dont know how the averages are calculated I just pointed it out they aren't the minimum/maximum times. Some people get a test quicker by being put on cancellation lists etc, some people end up waiting longer(no idea why).

You haven't been accommodadted because you have not managed to contact them, again I would say you should be trying a couple of times a day if driving is that important too you.

As for the quote I believe that is in realtion to people on second provisionals who need their car for work. Note this does not mean need their car to get to work but who need their car/license to sue during work i.e salesperson, tradesman etc etc.

What license are you on?

Regarding calling them, I have even called the RSA direct line and they couldn't even put me through because of the lines being jammed. All they say is to "keep trying", or "try later".

My annoyance is borne out by the fact that they (Gay Byrne and the RSA), are actively advertising the fact that they have got the test waiting times down to 8 - 10 weeks. It just seems a little suspect to me that no one I know that has applied for the test in any location has received their tests within that "average" time frame. I would love to see a more detailed break down of the application/waiting time per a sample of applications for a particular testing centre and do0 a calculation and consolidation of the numbers. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the numbers were not a true reflection of the actual truth.

It must be noted that the Minister and the RSA pledged to reduce the time to the above scale when announcing the new measures to come into effect. This is what leads me to believe that the figures are false. They couldn't enforce the law if they hadn't met their obligation of reducing the waiting times.

The instructor I was receiving lessons form even stated this fact and was convinced that they were massively behind the so called average time that were listed.

Too many co-incidences for me to be honest!

Abi

Toots85 wrote: »

+1, it's not like this new system was introduced overnight! When I booked my OH's test with SGS

How are people doing this? My sister has been trying desperately to get her test, and has been told point-blank that only the RSA decide whos files get sent to SGS for testing, and that they do not take direct calls.

DarkJager

techdiver wrote: »

I applied for my driving test on the 28th of April so as to have my test done in time for the end of June deadline. Since applying I have not even received a date for my test even though I applied 7 weeks ago. According to the "Pass Rates and Waiting Times", document on the RSA website it claims that the waiting time in my area is 7 weeks. Now I am no mathematician but I do believe that time has come and gone for me.
If I was to receive my test date today, there would be at least another 4 week wait to be tested! To me this seems like the RSA are deliberately falsifying their figures to meet the commitment made by the RSA/Minister of transport to have tests "On Demand", by the June 30th deadline. I am not the only one who has noticed this as my girlfriend has encountered the same scenario in a different test centre.
Has anyone else experienced this also and if so please write in and let me know, as I think the minister and the RSA are misleading the public in order to claim they have met their targets for June 30th.

Yep applied for my second test about 2 months and have heard nothing since, excluding the payment confirmation letter. I wouldn't mind too much but I had done my first test in plenty of time, and was screwed out of a pass for the most ridiculous reason ever, which even the tester could not backup when I flipped at him over the result. (Did any of you know that children and cars have now gained the absolutely amazing ability to come straight through an 8 foot brick wall into a cul de sac??? )

So anyway, the RSA screwed me out of getting the pass and now expect that I will just magically stay off the road, even though I'm waiting 2 months for a test that shouldn't even be needed? Not a fcukin chance.

Spud83

techdiver wrote: »

Regarding calling them, I have even called the RSA direct line and they couldn't even put me through because of the lines being jammed. All they say is to "keep trying", or "try later".

My annoyance is borne out by the fact that they (Gay Byrne and the RSA), are actively advertising the fact that they have got the test waiting times down to 8 - 10 weeks. It just seems a little suspect to me that no one I know that has applied for the test in any location has received their tests within that "average" time frame. I would love to see a more detailed break down of the application/waiting time per a sample of applications for a particular testing centre and do0 a calculation and consolidation of the numbers. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the numbers were not a true reflection of the actual truth.

It must be noted that the Minister and the RSA pledged to reduce the time to the above scale when announcing the new measures to come into effect. This is what leads me to believe that the figures are false. They couldn't enforce the law if they hadn't met their obligation of reducing the waiting times.

The instructor I was receiving lessons form even stated this fact and was convinced that they were massively behind the so called average time that were listed.

Too many co-incidences for me to be honest!

I agree that the times may be a little suspect alright, but we are never going to get a full break down of the figures. For everyone person in your position there have been people giving out because they have been getting called too early.

For some reason there seems to be a lottery here(maybe its the difference between your file going to SGS or an RSA centre), however I still think you should continue ringing them if you need it sorted before July. I know if it was me I would have been ringing them as soon as I got the confirmation letter.

Abigayle wrote: »

How are people doing this? My sister has been trying desperately to get her test, and has been told point-blank that only the RSA decide whos files get sent to SGS for testing, and that they do not take direct calls.

You dont get to decide. The RSA send some files to SGS and others to their own test centres. When it is sent to SGS you get another letter saying to call them to arrange a test date. I'm guessing that is what happended to the poster you quoted.

pickarooney

Angry people cause accidents.

techdiver

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

I agree that the times may be a little suspect alright, but we are never going to get a full break down of the figures. For everyone person in your position there have been people giving out because they have been getting called too early.

For some reason there seems to be a lottery here(maybe its the difference between your file going to SGS or an RSA centre), however I still think you should continue ringing them if you need it sorted before July. I know if it was me I would have been ringing them as soon as I got the confirmation letter.

The reason I didn't call straight away after getting the confirmation letter was because I misguidedly trusted that this great system they have been talking about actually works.

In fairness they should really bother publishing the average waiting times when they seem to have no correlation to the actual waiting time, be that to short or too long. I’m just jaded with the way everything in this country can be done so poorly.

Deadalus

Everyone saying they had 9 months to apply for there test and giving out about learner drivers not taking advantage of shorter waiting times are not taking into consideration the people who have only got the provisional license in the last 3 months and who are actually not even allowed to apply for their full license until they had their provisional for six months. What are they supposed to do? why make us wait? Im better than alot of people I know at driving and yet I'm not even allowed to apply for my test

techdiver

Deadalus wrote: »

Everyone saying they had 9 months to apply for there test and giving out about learner drivers not taking advantage of shorter waiting times are not taking into consideration the people who have only got the provisional license in the last 3 months and who are actually not even allowed to apply for their full license until they had their provisional for six months. What are they supposed to do? why make us wait? Im better than alot of people I know at driving and yet I'm not even allowed to apply for my test

Exactly! And I love this illusion of passing the test making someone a good driver. How many fatal accidents are caused by provisional drivers anyway? Very few, I'm sure. And those of you who criticise, how many of you have availed of the driving unaccompanied rule over the years??

Spud83

Deadalus wrote: »

Everyone saying they had 9 months to apply for there test and giving out about learner drivers not taking advantage of shorter waiting times are not taking into consideration the people who have only got the provisional license in the last 3 months and who are actually not even allowed to apply for their full license until they had their provisional for six months. What are they supposed to do? why make us wait? Im better than alot of people I know at driving and yet I'm not even allowed to apply for my test

Well you should check the rules regarding this first. You can apply for your test NOW. On the day of your test you must have held your learners permit for 6 months. So i would apply soon see when you get a date if its too early cancel it for a later date.

I have to say I'm not fully in agreement with the 6 month waiting time, but the idea is that people get in 6 months of experience before getting a full license. Now how can they tell that people actually used that 6 months waiting to get experience rather than sit around and not drive at all I dont know. I would say mandatory hours with an instructor would be better.

But remember that this is just first step in overhauling the testing system. Further changes will be coming after these rules have bedded in.

EDIT: How do you know you are a better driver? What qualifies you to be a judge of this.

EDIT: I drove unaccompanied for 2 months. This was before these new rules were announced and when waiting times were a lot longer. I was quoted 50+ weeks in my centre.

techdiver

Honestly does anyone think the driving test is in any way a decent measure of what type of driver you are??

The rules for passing and failing are a joke for one. I've never heard of carnage being caused on the road by some one not being able to reverse around a corner without clipping a kerb, or the importance of knowing hand signals when it is illegal to drive when your lights do not work.

I think it is aimed at the wrong skills. Plus I find it hilarious that you cannot sit a test without a valid NCT cert, even though the waiting time for that is crazy at the moment too. The appointment letter is not enough to sit a test even though it is satisfactory for the Gardaí!!!

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!

I think the entire system is in need of a complete overhaul.

Deadalus

Fair enough i was a bit hot headed there about the whole being a better driver thing but I drive within the speed limit at all times and always keep plenty of distance between myself and the car in front of me. This can not be said for alot of drivers I know.

If most of the accidents happen in the evening and at the weekend why not put in place a restriction for those times on learner drivers. That way they can still get to and from work but are off the roads for the remander of the day. That would be fine by myself.

Spud83

techdiver wrote: »

Honestly does anyone think the driving test is in any way a decent measure of what type of driver you are??

The rules for passing and failing are a joke for one. I've never heard of carnage being caused on the road by some one not being able to reverse around a corner without clipping a kerb, or the importance of knowing hand signals when it is illegal to drive when your lights do not work.

I think it is aimed at the wrong skills. Plus I find it hilarious that you cannot sit a test without a valid NCT cert, even though the waiting time for that is crazy at the moment too. The appointment letter is not enough to sit a test even though it is satisfactory for the Gardaí!!!

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!

I think the entire system is in need of a complete overhaul.

Reversing around the corner is show you have decent control of the car and an observation test. It is not for the manovure itself.

Handsignals are a requirement I'm not sure why as you shouldn't be driving without lights but maybe so you can tell what somebody on a bike is going to be doing. Plus there are six of them, not exactly hard to learn.

No NCT means your car has not been deamed fit for the road. No NCT means your car shouldn't be on the road so obviously you shouldn't be doing a test in it. The reason Gardai let you away with the letter is because it shows you are getting the test done, texhnically they should be taking your car off the road.

Does the driving test need an overhaul yes, but I would say things like motorway driving is more important than taking hand signals out of it. But imagine they done that as well as these new rules all at the same time. People would be up in arms over it (as many already are). As I stated this is just step one in an overhaul of the whole system. Once these rules are bedded in and people are used to there will be further changes, probably including a new R plate, further restrictions on R and L drivers, prob a change to the test, maybe a mandatory number of hours with a qualified instructor etc.

It cant all be done at once, these changes need to be done gradually to bring the system up to scratch with the rest of europe. Trying to do it all at one would cause up roar. Rememeber last october when they tried to bring these laws within a few days.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

techdiver wrote: »

In fairness they should really bother publishing the average waiting times when they seem to have no correlation to the actual waiting time, be that to short or too long. I’m just jaded with the way everything in this country can be done so poorly.

The thing you should be most jaded and p*ssed off with is your maths teacher. Surely they taught you what an average means? No? Standard deviations?

What you are saying is akin to saying that the average height of people in the country is 5 foot 10 inches. As i am 5.11, then the average number for height must be wrong.

For shame on your maths teacher, for shame...

valz_walsh

I think that there should be regular driver tests, something like like the NCT, but for drivers. Whats the point in having a perfectly working car if the person behind the wheel cant drive on a roundabout etc.

I understand that itd be a huge pain in the ass, but Id rather drive on the roads knowing that Im there with decent drivers rather than decent cars. Just because the indicators work in a car, doesnt mean that the person behind the wheel actually uses them!! Everyone else on the road is just ment to know that the driver in front is turning right!!!

Granted it wouldnt help with waiting times and all that, but you never know, it might creat jobs!!

Spud83

Deadalus wrote: »

Fair enough i was a bit hot headed there about the whole being a better driver thing but I drive within the speed limit at all times and always keep plenty of distance between myself and the car in front of me. This can not be said for alot of drivers I know.

If most of the accidents happen in the evening and at the weekend why not put in place a restriction for those times on learner drivers. That way they can still get to and from work but are off the roads for the remander of the day. That would be fine by myself.

Well then you would have people who work shifts or nights giving out because it is only affecting them rather than all learner drivers.

I didn't know there was stats for the number of accidents happening at weekends and evenings. Wasn't there something saying alot happen in the morning due to people being tired not fully awake and responsive etc.

Spud83

valz_walsh wrote: »

I think that there should be regular driver tests, something like like the NCT, but for drivers. Whats the point in having a perfectly working car if the person behind the wheel cant drive on a roundabout etc.

I understand that itd be a huge pain in the ass, but Id rather drive on the roads knowing that Im there with decent drivers rather than decent cars. Just because the indicators work in a car, doesnt mean that the person behind the wheel actually uses them!! Everyone else on the road is just ment to know that the driver in front is turning right!!!

Granted it wouldnt help with waiting times and all that, but you never know, it might creat jobs!!

But by reasoning these people past the test once. So they know how to drive correctly but choose not too. Nothing would stop them going to another a test and driving correctly, even is it means getting one or two pre-tests and then leaving the centre and continuing on as normal.

Stopping people like that is down to Gardai enforcement not more tests.