Why is there no railway from Limerick to Galway?

Heisenberg. · 19-06-2008 10:06am #1

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mikemac · 19-06-2008 10:09am

Ever hear of the Western Rail Corridor?
This was discussed for months and months, there's monster thread here somewhere if you do a search

All possible questions will be answered

murphaph · 19-06-2008 10:14am

It'll still take 5 hours by train when (if) the WRC is opened!

Heisenberg. · 19-06-2008 10:20am

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Run_to_da_hills · 19-06-2008 10:28am

WRC = Water Rail Corridor

murphaph · 19-06-2008 10:37am

Western Regional Canal perhaps?

KC61 · 19-06-2008 10:41am

murphaph wrote: »

It'll still take 5 hours by train when (if) the WRC is opened!

Realistically, the journey time by train from Cork to Galway, when the WRC is opened, will initially be in the region of 3 hours 40 minutes on some of the trips. There will be scope for bringing that below 3 hours 30 minutes when various other projects are completed (Limerick resignalling being the main one).

testicle · 19-06-2008 3:40pm

The Scientist wrote: »

Always bugged me that in the 21st Century to get from Cork to Galway by train, the best they can do is a +5hr round trip.
That being the Cork - Portarlington - Galway route which, might i add, is less infrequent than the 6hr Cork - Dublin - Galway route thats offered throughout the day.

Why are Irelands 3rd & 4th biggest Cities not linked by a decent rail network?

2nd and 3rd. Belfast is not in Ireland.

Reference - Article 4 of the Constitution - "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."

GerardKeating · 19-06-2008 4:16pm

testicle wrote: »

2nd and 3rd. Belfast is not in Ireland.

Reference - Article 4 of the Constitution - "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."

Who mentioned Belfast ???

The OP talked on Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway...

Chris_533976 · 19-06-2008 5:36pm

I thought it was impossible for a train to go from Limerick Junction to Ennis? Isnt there a big gap in the line somewhere? Would make Cork - Galway impossible.

KC61 · 19-06-2008 6:10pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I thought it was impossible for a train to go from Limerick Junction to Ennis? Isnt there a big gap in the line somewhere? Would make Cork - Galway impossible.

The Limerick/Ennis line reopened several months back.

Trains go Limerick Junction/Limerick and you either change or stay on board to Ennis.

spacetweek · 19-06-2008 6:48pm

The Scientist wrote: »

Always bugged me that in the 21st Century to get from Cork to Galway by train, the best they can do is a +5hr round trip.
That being the Cork - Portarlington - Galway route which, might i add, is less infrequent than the 6hr Cork - Dublin - Galway route thats offered throughout the day.

Why are Irelands 3rd & 4th biggest Cities not linked by a decent rail network?

Under construction as we speak pal. Supposed to open early in new year.

fh041205 · 19-06-2008 7:00pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Under construction as we speak pal. Supposed to open early in new year.

Really. You mean 2009. Surely if this was the case IR would be plugging it everywhere and telling us what a great job they've done and how they're brining freedom to the long lost people of the west.

Personally, I think that the national rail carrier should have a duty to provide these major cities with a quality services, I just worry where the money is going to come from. You could see fares going sky high in a short period of time. (As if they weren't already high enough)

Slice · 19-06-2008 9:24pm

Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
Always bugged me that in the 21st Century to get from Cork to Galway by train, the best they can do is a +5hr round trip.
That being the Cork - Portarlington - Galway route which, might i add, is less infrequent than the 6hr Cork - Dublin - Galway route thats offered throughout the day.

Why are Irelands 3rd & 4th biggest Cities not linked by a decent rail network?

2nd and 3rd. Belfast is not in Ireland.

Reference - Article 4 of the Constitution - "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."

Surely the term Ireland could refer to the island as well. Sssshhheeessshh, people these days...

GerardKeating · 19-06-2008 9:41pm

fh041205 wrote: »

Personally, I think that the national rail carrier should have a duty to provide these major cities with a quality services, I just worry where the money is going to come from. You could see fares going sky high in a short period of time. (As if they weren't already high enough)

The national rail carrier cannot spend money they do not have... The government has chosen not to invest much money the past 20/30 years.

Carawaystick · 19-06-2008 10:59pm

The govt are building a high quality dual carriageway between Barefield and Galway, and a low quality rail line between Ennis and Athenry. it will be faster to get the bus, and there will be several bus operators, than the train.

A more pertinent question, why is there no high quality road between Cork and Limerick?

fh041205 · 19-06-2008 11:05pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

The national rail carrier cannot spend money they do not have... The government has chosen not to invest much money the past 20/30 years.

Hey believe me, you're preaching to the converted there mate.

invincibleirish · 19-06-2008 11:25pm

Who wants to go to Galway from Limerick and vice versa?

KC61 · 20-06-2008 7:27am

invincibleirish wrote: »

Who wants to go to Galway from Limerick and vice versa?

Quite a few people given that both Bus Éireann and Citylink operate hourly bus services seven days a week on the route from early morning (7am) until mid-evening (8pm).

Other than the Dublin-Galway route, it has the highest density of interurban bus operation in the country.

KC61 · 20-06-2008 7:42am

Carawaystick wrote: »

The govt are building a high quality dual carriageway between Barefield and Galway, and a low quality rail line between Ennis and Athenry. it will be faster to get the bus, and there will be several bus operators, than the train.

A more pertinent question, why is there no high quality road between Cork and Limerick?

Not necessarily true - you ignore the fact that buses will still need to serve the towns en route to drop off/pick up passengers, which will slow them down.

The railway is being built to 70mph standard, which I would hardly call low quality. It should be possible to do the journey by rail in 1 hour 40 mins or thereabouts, or possibly less once all of the work is complete, i.e. removing accomodation crossings and the Limerick resignalling project.

Zoney · 20-06-2008 9:01am

Carawaystick wrote: »

The govt are building a high quality dual carriageway between Barefield and Galway, and a low quality rail line between Ennis and Athenry. it will be faster to get the bus, and there will be several bus operators, than the train.

A more pertinent question, why is there no high quality road between Cork and Limerick?

You forget that buses are limited to 80 km/h. Also, the new dual carriageway route will be longer than the current road, as the N18 will meet the N6 nearer to Athenry. *Also* the buses will have to divert off the dual carriageway to serve towns, e.g. Ennis as at present. These diversions combined with stopping time will be much more time consuming than train stops, especially as the bus also has to divert into Shannon and often Bunratty (notwithstanding the fact of it not entirely being a good thing that the train can't get to Shannon).

There may still be an issue in having the train service be attractive compared to car journeys (though traffic jams at Limerick and Galway might factor in) but for sure the train service will improve public transport access between the two cities. It will be far better than the bus, and certainly better enough to just about justify it being a bit more expensive.

Heisenberg. · 20-06-2008 9:11am

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invincibleirish · 20-06-2008 1:32pm

KC61 wrote: »

Quite a few people given that both Bus Éireann and Citylink operate hourly bus services seven days a week on the route from early morning (7am) until mid-evening (8pm).

Other than the Dublin-Galway route, it has the highest density of interurban bus operation in the country.

so 2 full buses an hour? whats that compared to the capacity of a trainset anyone?a trainset that will be slower then the bus.

KC61 · 20-06-2008 1:40pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

so 2 full buses an hour? whats that compared to the capacity of a trainset anyone?a trainset that will be slower then the bus.

As I've outlined above, the train will probably be between 1 hour 50 mins initially, dropping to 1 hour 40 minutes. The bus is currently 2 hours 20 mins.

The bus will continue to have to serve the town centres, so time savings will be minimal. All of the buses serve Shannon airport so I really cannot see how you're arriving at your conclusion that the train will be slower.

fh041205 · 20-06-2008 1:45pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

so 2 full buses an hour? whats that compared to the capacity of a trainset anyone?a trainset that will be slower then the bus.

Thats a full 4 piece every 3-4 hours. And with 30 mins off the journey it would certainly tempt those people. I still wouldn't be convinced that demand is there. These buses are hardly ALWAYS full are they???

KC61 · 20-06-2008 2:58pm

fh041205 wrote: »

Thats a full 4 piece every 3-4 hours. And with 30 mins off the journey it would certainly tempt those people. I still wouldn't be convinced that demand is there. These buses are hardly ALWAYS full are they???

Probably not, but a private operator is not going to operate an hourly service in competition with Bus Eireann seven days a week if the demand is not there.

The plan is for seven trains per day in each direction, i.e. one every two hours.

de breeze · 20-06-2008 4:22pm

KC61 wrote: »

Quite a few people given that both Bus Éireann and Citylink operate hourly bus services seven days a week on the route from early morning (7am) until mid-evening (8pm).

Other than the Dublin-Galway route, it has the highest density of interurban bus operation in the country.

If the bus service is so good and the road is being upgraded, who needs a train?
WRC is a dumb white elephant.

Chris_533976 · 20-06-2008 4:24pm

The simple truth about a Cork - Galway train service is that if it costs more than €24 return (Citylink bus return), which it probably will, then I'm not going to take it. I would reckon a lot of people may do that too.

Ham'nd'egger · 20-06-2008 4:38pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The simple truth about a Cork - Galway train service is that if it costs more than €24 return (Citylink bus return), which it probably will, then I'm not going to take it. I would reckon a lot of people may do that too.

Point taken, Chris though a lot of people will prefer train travel to bus for many reasons aside from price.

gjim · 21-06-2008 12:14am

Hamndegger wrote: »

Point taken, Chris though a lot of people will prefer train travel to bus for many reasons aside from price.

A "lot of people"? I suspect the majority will be those for whom the price is not an issue will be because they have travel cards or students travelsave stamps. Outside of that, you are talking about occasional tourists.

Zoney · 21-06-2008 10:38am

gjim wrote: »

A "lot of people"? I suspect the majority will be those for whom the price is not an issue will be because they have travel cards or students travelsave stamps. Outside of that, you are talking about occasional tourists.

I'd say a lot of people travelling one-off (i.e. not a daily commute) will pay the bit extra if they can afford it, for the comfort if nothing else (those new regional railcars are very nice).

Those who are travelling regularly, although price may be an issue for them, nevertheless may choose the train if they can afford it *because* they're travelling regularly - an attempt to at least improve their sanity some small bit. There'll presumably be a season ticket or some such anyways.

Travelling by bus is a pretty miserable way to travel - it will help public transport on the corridor a lot to have the option of the train, regardless of how attractive journey time and price are. All in all, it should work as well as train anywhere else in the country. Arguing that bus is sufficient is just as good an argument for say Limerick-Dublin (traffic volumes on the N7 are pretty much as low between Nenagh and Roscrea as they are in the middle of the N18).

DWCommuter · 21-06-2008 8:23pm

KC61 wrote: »

As I've outlined above, the train will probably be between 1 hour 50 mins initially, dropping to 1 hour 40 minutes. The bus is currently 2 hours 20 mins.

The bus will continue to have to serve the town centres, so time savings will be minimal. All of the buses serve Shannon airport so I really cannot see how you're arriving at your conclusion that the train will be slower.

In 2006 Myles McHugh from Irish Rail told me the train time Galway - Limerick would be 2hrs 20 mins and eventually 2 hours. It may well be 70mph in parts (apart from the fact that the line was never 70mph in its lifetime) but the curves will make the speeds closer to 50mph. Its only a relay thats been done on the cheap due to a loophole in rail safety guidelines. That loophole is the fact that IE never officially abandoned the line.

And so the most talked about, yet least important, rail line in Ireland starts off another thread. If anyone wants the thread locked, I can easily arrange it.;)

Ham'nd'egger · 22-06-2008 2:20am

DWCommuter wrote: »

In 2006 Myles McHugh from Irish Rail told me.....And so the most talked about, yet least important, rail line in Ireland starts off another thread. If anyone wants the thread locked, I can easily arrange it.;)

Mr. Mchugh says a lot of things in fairness

KC61 · 22-06-2008 8:32am

DWCommuter wrote: »

In 2006 Myles McHugh from Irish Rail told me the train time Galway - Limerick would be 2hrs 20 mins and eventually 2 hours. It may well be 70mph in parts (apart from the fact that the line was never 70mph in its lifetime) but the curves will make the speeds closer to 50mph. Its only a relay thats been done on the cheap due to a loophole in rail safety guidelines. That loophole is the fact that IE never officially abandoned the line.

And so the most talked about, yet least important, rail line in Ireland starts off another thread. If anyone wants the thread locked, I can easily arrange it.;)

Timings certainly will not be over 2 hours - I'm not sure where Myles ever got that idea. Using railcars means that 70mph will be achievable far more readily than with a locomotive hauled train, combined with more rapid acceleration/deceleration.

From what I've seen (and I've only seen pictures) it certainly doesn't look like it's a "relay done on the cheap".

paulm17781 · 22-06-2008 11:41am

KC61 wrote: »

Timings certainly will not be over 2 hours - I'm not sure where Myles ever got that idea. Using railcars means that 70mph will be achievable far more readily than with a locomotive hauled train, combined with more rapid acceleration/deceleration.

This won't matter with the amount of curves and gradient changes.

KC61 wrote: »

From what I've seen (and I've only seen pictures) it certainly doesn't look like it's a "relay done on the cheap".

If they were rebuilding and straightening parts it wouldn't be done on the cheap. All they are doing is a relay which is the cheapest way to do it.

DWCommuter · 23-06-2008 10:15pm

KC61 wrote: »

Timings certainly will not be over 2 hours - I'm not sure where Myles ever got that idea. Using railcars means that 70mph will be achievable far more readily than with a locomotive hauled train, combined with more rapid acceleration/deceleration.

From what I've seen (and I've only seen pictures) it certainly doesn't look like it's a "relay done on the cheap".

Ive seen the relay in the flesh. If 70mph is reached on that line on more than 15% of it, I'll walk it with a donkey on my back. For example, north of Ardrahan its still like a rollercoaster. I don't believe all this talk of 70mph. I can't see a railcar breaking 50mph on most of this line. The line is a winding, hilly, piece of crap. All IE are doing is putting new track on the winding, hilly, piece of crap.

But hey, I could be wrong.

:D:D

corktina · 24-06-2008 7:18am

it will be really slow alright, and if they do find a way to make it faster and more popular, a directly competing bus service with a similar limited stop pattern would grind it into the dust....I cant see Citylink siting on their hands somehow...

MOH · 24-06-2008 12:19pm

Given they don't seem to have enough drivers to run their current services, how are they planning to staff this?

KC61 · 24-06-2008 1:36pm

MOH wrote: »

Given they don't seem to have enough drivers to run their current services, how are they planning to staff this?

As this is not starting until next year, presumably from the pool of additional drivers currently in training.

Why is there no railway from Limerick to Galway?

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