Priests and confessionals

steppen · 18-06-2008 10:29PM #1

here is one thing i never understood,

if you a person goes to a priest and confesses a murder, or that he's a serial child molester,

i mean in the case of someone coming everyweek, and confessing the horrible things that they did that week,

can the priest report it? do they usually?

chaotic dream · 18-06-2008 10:35PM

emm as far as i know, technically they can't, but I dunno if they do.

I doubt most murderers/child molesters would confess to doing anything though. To confess means admitting what you did was wrong and if they felt like that they wouldn't repeatedly commit the crimes.

seamus · 18-06-2008 10:36PM

I don't know. For some reason, I seem to think that in the case of serious crime, the answer is "yes", they can and do report it.

I don't know why I think that though.

It's worth noting that when a priest hears about any crime in the confessional, he's breaking the law by failing to report it to the Gardai. Theoretically he's then guilty of a sin himself.

steppen · 18-06-2008 10:38PM

chaotic dream wrote: »

emm as far as i know, technically they can't, but I dunno if they do.

I doubt most murderers/child molesters would confess to doing anything though. To confess means admitting what you did was wrong and if they felt like that they wouldn't repeatedly commit the crimes.

yeah but they could look at it like that they are being giving absolution for their sins, so the continue to do what they do, go to confession,...clean slate, continue

Holsten · 18-06-2008 10:41PM

As far as I'm aware they keep everything to themselves, the Seal of the Confessional.

As they say it's between you and "God".

But we all know just how honest the Catholic Church is....

suspectdevice · 18-06-2008 10:43PM

steppen wrote: »

here is one thing i never understood,

if you a person goes to a priest and confesses a murder, or that he's a serial child molester,

i mean in the case of someone coming everyweek, and confessing the horrible things that they did that week,

can the priest report it? do they usually?

come on, what have you done then?

Fringe · 18-06-2008 11:26PM

I go to a Catholic school and one of the priests there teaching religion was asked a similar question. Basically, they aren't allowed to tell anything. We kept on trying to make him blurt sometihng out but he just kept on saying he couldn't say anything.

flanum · 18-06-2008 11:42PM

seamus wrote: »

It's worth noting that when a priest hears about any crime in the confessional, he's breaking the law by failing to report it to the Gardai. Theoretically he's then guilty of a sin himself.

So you are saying it is a sin to break any irish law?

"Thou shalt not break any rules created by whichever current political party happens to be in government at the time?"

Is it a venal or cardinal sin?

ScumLord · 18-06-2008 11:54PM

steppen wrote: »

can the priest report it? do they usually?

Would God report you? No. partly because he can't talk due to being fictional but then priests are fictional too.

I wonder can priests have a laugh between them selfs about what they hear in confession by having a priestly confession group?

Mena · 18-06-2008 11:58PM

If the "priest" keeps schtumm about the confessed crime he should go down with the perp and rot in jail.

ScumLord · 19-06-2008 12:03AM

Mena wrote: »

If the "priest" keeps schtumm about the confessed crime he should go down with the perp and rot in jail.

Even if the guy smokes the odd spliff, runs a red light or doesn't pay his tv license? Bit severe sending a priest to jail for that don't you think?

randylonghorn · 19-06-2008 12:07AM

steppen wrote: »

can the priest report it? do they usually?

No, the seal of the confessional is absolute. Throughout history, priests have been imprisoned, tortured and even killed for refusing to divulge what they have heard in the confessional. The breaking of the confessional seal carries automatic excommunication, reserved to the Holy See. To the true believer, the death of the body was of far less consequence than the death of the soul.

steppen wrote: »

yeah but they could look at it like that they are being giving absolution for their sins, so the continue to do what they do, go to confession,...clean slate, continue

That doesn't hold up, as to receive absolution there must be sincere regret and the intention not to repeat the fault ... someone who goes to confession to have the slate wiped clean with the intention of repeating the same action is not in fact absolved in the first place. Assuming the offender has enough faith to seek absolution in the first place, they will know this ... it's very basic doctrine.

seamus wrote: »

It's worth noting that when a priest hears about any crime in the confessional, he's breaking the law by failing to report it to the Gardai. Theoretically he's then guilty of a sin himself.

Incorrect. To uphold the seal of the confessional is never sinful in the eyes of the church. What is more, the US Federal Court held that the 4th Amendment precludes any attempt by a law agency to tape, overhear or interfere with the process of confession, and any evidence garnered from such an attempt is inadmissible. While not exactly the same as declaring that they would protect the confessional seal in all circumstances, it does indicate the respect which even the legal system of a large multi-denominational country like the US affords to sacramental confession.

seamus wrote: »

I don't know. For some reason, I seem to think that in the case of serious crime, the answer is "yes", they can and do report it.

I don't know why I think that though.

I don't either. I have heard it argued that where the offender does not show any signs of genuine remorse or the intention to reform ... where, in fact, the conditions for absolution are not met ... the confession could be held not to be genuine and therefore the seal would not apply. I suppose an example would be where someone used the confessional simply to boast of his crimes in an environment where he felt "safe". I'm not sure if that is more than a theological debate though. Certainly, I doubt that any priest outside tv-land has ever felt so secure in his own judgement on that point as to make the call and breach the seal ...

AckwelFoley · 19-06-2008 12:37AM

steppen wrote: »

here is one thing i never understood,

if you a person goes to a priest and confesses a murder, or that he's a serial child molester,

i mean in the case of someone coming everyweek, and confessing the horrible things that they did that week,

can the priest report it? do they usually?

no.. brcause in most cases its themselves in the mirror thats doing all the confessing.

randylonghorn · 19-06-2008 12:55AM

snyper wrote: »

no.. brcause in most cases its themselves in the mirror thats doing all the confessing.

Leave Mirror out of it ... he doesn't need you dredging up all those painful memories!

ryoishin · 19-06-2008 09:01AM

No, he cannot break the seal of the the sacramnet of reconcilliation.

But Ireland is shying away from the confession box and there would be a distinction between a chat and requesting the sacrament.

sham08 · 19-06-2008 09:10AM

a) Yes

b) That would be an ecuminical matter
:pac:

Mena · 19-06-2008 09:17AM

ScumLord wrote: »

Even if the guy smokes the odd spliff, runs a red light or doesn't pay his tv license? Bit severe sending a priest to jail for that don't you think?

I was addressing the OP's points re: Murder and serial child molestation.

The Hill Billy · 19-06-2008 09:17AM

Mena wrote: »

he should go down on the perp

Fixed that for ya.

seamus · 19-06-2008 09:18AM

randylonghorn wrote: »

While not exactly the same as declaring that they would protect the confessional seal in all circumstances, it does indicate the respect which even the legal system of a large multi-denominational country like the US affords to sacramental confession.

Also irrelevant in this country

If I thought it would do any good, I would advocate tapping confessionals. Of course, that would be unlikely to pick up any actual crimes, and more likely to be used to find who Mary Murphy from above the shop is sleeping with.

Pretty conclusive answer so to the OP: No.

Still doesn't absolve the priest from the fact that he's committing a crime by not reporting it to the Gardai.

Steve_o · 19-06-2008 09:40AM

He can't break the seal of reconsilliation but he can hint generally, i.e. he can say that someone came in and confessed a murder, he just cant say who it was.

Fratton Fred · 19-06-2008 09:57AM

do people still go to confessionals?

It's weird to someone who has never been, what's it like?

Steve_o · 19-06-2008 10:00AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

do people still go to confessionals?

It's weird to someone who has never been, what's it like?

Little room with a thing to kneel on, priest is on the other side of a little graty thing, the annoying thing is finding the bloody door handle on the way out!

Fratton Fred · 19-06-2008 10:41AM

Steve_o wrote: »

Little room with a thing to kneel on, priest is on the other side of a little graty thing, the annoying thing is finding the bloody door handle on the way out!

sounds like a description of the scene last time George Michael was arrested

The Hill Billy · 19-06-2008 11:08AM

In an instance where a serious crime has been confessed I would imagine that the priest would encourage the person to present themselves to the Gardaí. The premise being that if they were truly sorry for their sins & they genuinely wished to seek absolution then they must be prepared to suffer the consequences of their actions.

biko · 19-06-2008 11:12AM

seamus wrote: »

For some reason, I seem to think that in the case of serious crime, the answer is "yes", they can and do report it.

Seal of the Confessional is the absolute confidentiality for Roman Catholic priests.

If a single priest broke the seal of confession and the press got wind of it, do you think people would still go, even for petty things?

Steve_o · 19-06-2008 11:52AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

sounds like a description of the scene last time George Michael was arrested

lol:D It does!!!

Fony Tenton · 19-06-2008 12:33PM

Steve_o wrote: »

lol:D It does!!!

In the early hours of October 1, 2006, Michael was found unconscious in his Mercedes-Benz S-Class car, causing an obstruction at the junction of Cricklewood Lane with Hendon Way, in northwest London. Police found Michael slumped in his seat in a semi-conscious state. He was taken to the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead for checks, and was then booked in at Colindale police station.

?????????????

ScumLord · 19-06-2008 12:36PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

do people still go to confessionals?

It's weird to someone who has never been, what's it like?

You should go in for the craic.

You start off saying "bless me father for I have sinned, it has been so many many months since my last confession" Then you tell your sins.

randylonghorn · 20-06-2008 12:51AM

seamus wrote: »

Also irrelevant in this country .

Technically, yes. However, if the US legal system is prepared to bend that far to protect the confessional, can you really see our judiciary doing less?

seamus wrote: »

If I thought it would do any good, I would advocate tapping confessionals. Of course, that would be unlikely to pick up any actual crimes, and more likely to be used to find who Mary Murphy from above the shop is sleeping with.

You know the old joke about the young guy who goes into confession, and confesses to having had "carnal knowledge" of a young woman from the locality? The priest demands to know who it is, and when the bould cocksmith won't tell him, proceeds to ask if it is X or Y or Z. When mo dhuine still refuses to answer the question, he is dismissed irritably with double the penance for his recalcitrance.

When he leaves the box, he kneels down beside his pal who is due to go in next, who whispers to know how he got on.

"Ah, 'twasn't all that bad," sez he, "and I got 3 red hot tips for next weekend ..."

seamus wrote: »

Still doesn't absolve the priest from the fact that he's committing a crime by not reporting it to the Gardai.

One of the areas where the religious and the secular will always be in conflict. I doubt however that any priest considers themselves to be committing a crime in upholding the seal, though I am sure that there have been times when many have agonised over being in possession of information which they may not reveal.

Hill Billy wrote: »

In an instance where a serious crime has been confessed I would imagine that the priest would encourage the person to present themselves to the Gardaí. The premise being that if they were truly sorry for their sins & they genuinely wished to seek absolution then they must be prepared to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Exactly ... kind of what I was getting at above.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

sounds like a description of the scene last time George Michael was arrested

Fony Tenton wrote: »

In the early hours of October 1, 2006, Michael was found unconscious in his Mercedes-Benz S-Class car, causing an obstruction at the junction of Cricklewood Lane with Hendon Way, in northwest London. Police found Michael slumped in his seat in a semi-conscious state. He was taken to the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead for checks, and was then booked in at Colindale police station.

?????????????

Ok, maybe not the last time he was arrested, but I can see what Fred is getting at!

javaboy · 20-06-2008 03:10AM

Steve_o wrote: »

He can't break the seal of reconsilliation but he can hint generally, i.e. he can say that someone came in and confessed a murder, he just cant say who it was.

I think charades are an acceptable way of passing info to the authorities without actually breaking the seal of the confessional. Hold on til I check the Idiot's Guide to the Priesthood.......

Yep. Charades are ok. You can also pass information along by setting up an elaborate series of clues involving paintings, architecture, albinos and puzzles.

eVeNtInE · 20-06-2008 03:17AM

This post has been deleted.

Priests and confessionals

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