The Quest for 2.59.59

Thanks for the support. Longford too early, Dublin too late, so probably Berlin or Amsterdam...

May 12 Monday - 8.3miles easy

May 13 Tuesday - 10miles, Intervals, 4 x 1mile ~5.45per mile, 4mins recovery

May 14 Wednesday - 8miles easy

May 15 Thursday - 15miles easy

May 16 Friday - Rest

May 17 Saturday - 9miles easy

May 18 Sunday - Rest

Week = 50miles

Easy week next, woo hoo! Should have got tempo run in end of week, but a bit tired, so held off.

May 19 Mon - Rest

May 20 Tues - easy 5.5m

May 21 Wed - Rest

May 22 Thurs - 7m with 2m race

May 23 Fri - easy 5m

May 24 Sat - 6miles, 2 x 10min tempo (5.58, 6.06 pace)

May 25 Sun - easy 8.6m

Week = 32miles

Enjoyed the easy week, now back to 3 weeks hard....

June 2 Mon - 9.3miles 72mins with 3 x 1330m intervals (4.48, 4.43, 4.39)

June 3 Tues - 8.2miles easy 66mins

June 4 Wed - Rest

June 5 Thurs - 8.5miles with 3mile time trial. 20secs pb and across the board probably my best performance ever, so delighted, coming into a bit of shape. Considering Im still a tad overweight compared to Ballycotton I've got to be happy.

June 6 Friday - 7.4miles easy, 60mins

June 7 Sat - 17miles easy 2.13 (not that the last 3 miles was easy...)

June 8 Sun - 10.6miles 79mins with 2 x 20mins tempo (6.26, 6.31 but heart rate about 10bpm lower than usual tempo, so good performance but probably still got time-trial and long run in system.

Week Total - 61miles

1 more hard week in this 2nd cycle. 3 more cycles to go then before marathon. Weight starting to come down. Was 4-5lbs above race weight last few months, only 2lbs above now, so that's good. Heart rate down to 40bpm on waking, so that's abother good sign. Fingers crossed I'll stay injury and illness free, and can keep this training up. Long runs will be the problem though. I'm really not cut out from them. Really struggle after 1hour45.

Fitness test yesterday, 5 months from last one. Managed to stay on treadmill for extra 3 mins, but more importantly, speed at lactate threshold has increased and heart rate has recuced at lactate threshold. Both signs of improvement according to the tester. Only problem was, I am 2kg heavier than last time as a result VO2max has reduced, but that is due to the formula for calculating VO2max rather than my fitness, or so he says. However, I will be on the health between now and Sep 28th. No more scones, chocolate or crisps. Can't wait for the post-marathon binge already.

So training plan has been firmed up, but quite similar to existing training, just the long run will be gradually stretched out and one of the tempo runs will be replaced by a marathon pace run in the last 2 months. Major thing is that heart rate zones have reduced becuase of the findings on yesterdays test. Possibly shows the improtance of going for regular testing, and maybe not working off generic heart rate zones or formulae such as 220-age etc.

Old zones:
Easy run - 150-160
Tempo - 175-180
Interval >185

New zones:
Easy and long - 145-150
Tempo - 170-175
Interval - 180-185

Interestingly, I was probably using these zones more recently anyway as it just seemed too hard to get above 175 for tempos and 185 for intervals, so maybe the body kind of knows the correct effort...

Woddle, www.mcmillanrunning.com is a good website, where if you put in your race time it will predict your race time for a lot of other distances, but also suggested training paces. It also has a good step by step guide to creating a running training plan. Initially, just going out jogging at comfortable pace is fine, but after you reach a certain level of fitness you need to stress your system a little more in order to gain a response (of improved fitness). And generally this involves introducing 'sessions' to your training. Continue doing easy runs a number of times a week, but replace one initially, then maybe 2 and then 3 with 'sessions'. The three core sessions generally being an interval (speed) session, a tempo run and a long run. Once you start doing these, you will improve fairly rapidly, but they have to be introduced gradually. What exactly you do in these sessions will depend on your goal race, ie long runs for a marathon might be 22miles but for a 5mile race might only be 10-12miles. Similarly you will do shorter distance intervals faster for shorter races, longer ones slower for longer races (but always at or faster than race pace) with time to rest and recover between each interval effort. Tempo runs should be at or about your 1 hour race pace, or maybe 20-30secs per mile slower than your 5mile or 10krace pace and can last up to 20mins (Jack Daniels advocates one by 20, greg mcmillan 'no more than 2' and my slave driving coach 3 x 20.... I think 1 15mins session would be fine to start off.

Don't be too dictated by pace with these sessions - heart rate or how you feel is a better indicator, as these take into account hills, wind, surface, unlike pace....Interval sessions should be hard, but after the recovery you should be able to do the next one. Tempo runs should be 'comfortably hard' so not as hard as a race, but you should know you're working and be looking forward to the end, but at the end knowing you could speed up or do a bit more if you wanted. All other runs should be nice and comfortable.

SUNGOD wrote: »

hi RF you said your training programme for marathon is quite smilar to the training your doing at the moment just with a long run getting progressively longer and replacing a tempo run with a race pace run. just wondering is this just your natural progression from regular training to marathon level or is this a "marathon programme" eg hal higdon,brendan o shea
i know its doesnt really matter just curious is all
thanks for the imput on my log very interesting

My training would always be more or less the same. Aim for 6 days a week and 50miles. Nowadays I target a big race about 2-3 times a year and focus my training plan towards this. I'll still do lots of other races, but these will be 'training races' hopefully on the way to a good peak for the main race. So far this has worked for Ballycotton and hopefully will also be succesful for Berlin. Previously I used to just train hard all the time and expect to race well in every race, but when I did that I had inconsistent results, with some good races and some poor races. So, frustrated with this, I looked for a change so went for a fitness test and got set on a programme. Typically it consists of:

Mon - easy run
Tues - intervals
Wed - easy run
Thurs - tempo run
Fri - Rest
Sat - tempo run
Sun - long run

For the marathon (target 3 hours) this translates as

Mon - easy 70min
Tues - 4 x 1mile
Wed - easy 70min
Thurs - 2-3 x 20mins at slightly slower than lactate threshold heart rate
Fri - rest
Sat - 2-3 x 20mins tempo
Sun - Long run - gradually building up to 22miles


For 10mile (target 1 hour) it was:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 6 x 1k
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 3 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 3 x 20 tempo
Sun - long run - 90mins / 12miles

For 5k it might be:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 12 x 400
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 2 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 2 x 20 tempo OR 4 x 1mile
Sun - long run 90mins

1 mile might be:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 8 x 400 (very fast)
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 2 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 6 x 800
Sun - long run 90mins

Because the speed comes easy for me, but I struggle more on the longer distances, keeping up the tempo runs and long runs is vital for me - as soon as I drop these, or the mileage, my times slip. After the target race, I will have a week of complete rest and then get back into training for the next target race a few months away. Afetr Berlin, I'll probably just target Ballycotton again for a main peak, with the cross country races in the middle of this. After that I would like to have a good lash off the 1500 over the summer and not sure after that.

As you know SG, above are 'Hard weeks' and every 4th week is an easy week, typically:

Mon - easy 40mins
Tues - 2 x 10mins tempo (40min run altogether)
Wed - Rest
Thurs - easy 40mins
Fri - Rest
Sat - 2 x 10mins tempo
Sun - Rest

And I try to race every 3 weeks. Ideally this will be at the end of the easy week/start of the hard week and a race replaces one of the harder sessions, and I'll go a bit easier the day or 2 before and after the race, without upsetting the training too much.

I'd be interested to see what others think of this.

to answer your original question then, it's not a marathon programme per se, it's just modifying my usual training to meet the requirements of a marathon race. I know a lot of fellows who specifically do a marathon programme and their mileage ups substantially. But I think they probably take it too easy when not in marathon training. Because I race throughout the year, I always need to be at a good level of fitness so the training is much the same just needs to get tweaked a little depending on the upcoming race. But again, I think it's impossible to try and race every race well, so pick the important ones and really train for these, resting up before etc. to get a pb and see the others as hard training runs and any pbs are a bonus. Hope that answers the question!

Mon 23 June - 10m, 78mins, 142bpm

Tues 24 June - 10.1m, with 4 x 1m (5.39, 5.39, 5.44, 5.37) 4 mins recovery

Wed 25 June - 6.9m, 60mins, 128bpm

Thurs 26 June - Rest

Fri 27 June - 10m with 2 x 20mins tempo (6.21pace 170bpm; 6.27pace 173bpm)

Sat 28 June - 20m, 2hrs30mins, 151bpm

Sun 29 June - 10m, 78mins, 151bpm

Week Total = 67miles

Ya, going for Berlin. Have a few low key races, then will do Longford half as the main build-up race prior to the big day. Have raced every 2 weeks for last few weeks in place of a tempo session, short races. Will start longer ones now, have a 5 mile, and then 2 10km's prior to the half. That will do then. Can't race too much when I'm doing the long runs at the weekend - need the energy.

The HR is only interesting when viewed in context. Wed I was at 128bpm, because my legs were so sore after the 4 x 1mile session the night before, that I couldn't go any faster. Also 10mile at end of week in same time was at 10bpm faster than at the start of week, becuase of the fatigue of some harder sessions prior to the end of week 10k...

Happy enough now. At the stage where the legs are always tired, but finding it very easy to do 10mile runs. 10k in a few weeks will be a big test as I will have completed 2 training cycles out of 4, and will train down for it and really give it a lash.

BossArky wrote: »

1) How did they calculate your VO2 max?

2) How do you measure your heart rate? Sports watch or something like that?

3) I see that one of your suggested training plan mentions training 6 days a week and aiming for 50 miles. What level runner is that aimed at? i.e. 2 or 3 years? I know that my feet would not have been able to handle that starting from scratch.

1) Incremental treadmill fitness test. ie wear mask which records the amount of oxygen you take in and CO2 you exhale. Then stand still for 3 mins while they record resting heart rate and respiratory status etc. then they take blood at the end of the 3 mins to check resting blood lactate levels. Then they start the treadmill at 10km/hour (this will vary depending on your fitness, but they will generally ask about your race times etc. and be able to tell from that roughly what speeds you will be capable of). Heart rate is taken every 30secs I think and blood lactate towards the end of the 3 mins. Then they put the treadmill up to 12 for 3 mins and repeat all tests, then 13, 14, 15 and so on until you can go no more. When I did the test in January I was 10'10". when I did it recently I was 11'00". Because the breathing aparatus calculates a score based on the amount of O2 you can consume (I think), they then divide this by weight in kg's to get the VO2 max score. So if you were at the exact same level of fitness (ie raced the exact same time for the same distance under the same conditions) at the time of two different tests, but were at a different weight at the different test times, your VO2 max scores would be different. In this scenario, the lighter you are, the higher your VO2 max score.

Another reason my VO2 max was lower the second time (I think) was as follows: first time I did it I got to speed 18 and was ready to collapse (you wear a harness in case you do collapse :eek: as it is supposed to be a test to exhaustion). The second time I got to speed 19 and felt more comfortable (relative to how one usually feels at the end of these tests anyway, which kind of feels like a never ending sprint finish at the end of a long race), but knew that there was no way I would make 3 mins at 20 as did the tester. As they take the blood latate level towards the end of the increment, and this is what is used mostly in constructing my training plan (heart rate at lactate turnpoint), we finished the test at the end of 19. But if I carried on for maybe another minute (at speed 20), which I think I could have, I'd have got to the 'almost ready to collapse' stage, hence would have been breathing much harder and so would have probably recorded a higher VO2 max. But as the VO2 max figure is not used for my training plan (and I don't like to have that much pain too often, and I had a race 2 nights later etc etc) I stopped before the point of max exertion.

2) I use a Garmin Forerunner 305 which has a heart rate monitor (have to wear strap around chest) which can be read from a watch.

3) My first run 4 years ago was about 15mins and I had to stop and walk home. Did this x 2 a week initially then upped to x 3, then gradually upped the time. After about 6 months of running 2-3times a week, it gradually upped to 4, then 5, then 6 after about a year. Even then I'd say it took me at least 3 years training before I could regularly do 6 days a week. Up to then even though I planned to do 6 days a week, more often than not I'd only do 4 or 5. But it reached a stage where if I didn't do 50miles a week, my times in races started to slow. So because of this and because after 3 years I was fit enough for it and the body was strong/adapted enough to take it I now try to tun 6 days a week as routine with a 50mile general target. But that's obviously a lot to someone new. Gradually build up. Don't know how much exactly a new person should do, varies on starting fitness I suppose.

Most marathon training plans are 3-4months long with 4-6 days a week running. But I would bnever advise anyone new to do this. If you are new, you should be running for 6 months before trying this as it would probably take that long to tolerate running even 4 times a week. I think it's the people who just do a 3-4 month plan having not run before that find it so difficult and are stiff for days after. Most runners I know can run the next day, probably because they have had a good base prior to embarking on the marathon training plan.

Mon 30th June - 8.1m, 66mins, 142bpm

Tues 1st July - 8.2m, 65mins, 147bpm

Wed 2nd July - Rest

Thurs 3rd July - 9.5m with 5m time trial 28.20

Fri 4th July - 8.4m, 69mins, 139bpm

Sat 5th July - 21m, 2.42, 148bpm

Sun 6th July - 11m, 90mins, 137

Weekly Total = 66 miles

Mon 7th July - 8.1m, 63mins, 7.49/mile, 143bpm

Tues 8th July - 10m, with 4 x 1m (5.45,5.45,5.44,5.38)

Wed 9th July - Rest

Thurs 10th July - Rest

Fri 11th July - 12m, 93mins, 7.45/mile, 156bpm

Sat 12th July - Rest

Sun 13th July - Rest

Weekly Total = 30 miles

Took APs advice and took a few extra days off this week. Came to end of hard 3 week cycle, anyway, so no harm. Will try to get a bit of speedwork in next week or two and then back to the hard miles for the last 2 months.

Mon 21st July - Rest

Tues 22nd July - 6m, 48mins

Wed 23rd July - Rest

Thurs 24th July - 10m with 10k time trial 36.5mins

Fri 25th July - 8.3m, 65mins, 7.52pace, 143bpm

Sat 26th July - 20.7m, 2.39, 7.43pace, 144bpm

Sun 27th July - 8.8m, 69mins, 7.57pace, 143bpm

Weekly Total = 54miles