The Quest for 2.59.59

Racing Flat

Abhainn, you were right...

Aim - sub 3 hour autumn marathon.

Current Stats:
HR ~50
Weight 11'2

Had month off after 'The Quest for 59.59'. Never again. Getting back has been a killer. Really suffered first few weeks, as if I'd never ran before. So 2 weeks may be max break in future.

Anyway, back about a month now, just tried to get running, get fit again and have recently embarked on a more structured programme. Training to date...

April 4 - first run in a month, was so excited looking forward to it, hoping to feel really fresh. Did 3.5miles in 30mins and nearly killed me.

April 5 - 4 mile road race.

April 6 - 6.2miles 48mins

April 7 - 2.8miles 25mins. Wrecked.

April 8 - 8miles, 2 x 15mins tempo (7.00pace)

April 9 - 5.6miles 45mins

April 10 - 8 miles, 2 x 15mins tempo (6.40pace)

April 11 - Rest

April 12 - 7miles 60 mins

April 13 - 9.6miles, 2 x 15mins tempo (6.35pace)

Week - 41miles

April 14 - 8miles, 2 x 15mins tempo (6.35pace)

April 15 - 8.5miles, 10 x 400 ~76secs, 60s recovery

April 16 - 7.6miles 54mins

April 17 - 11miles, 3 x 15mins tempo (6.30pace)

April 18, 19, 20 - Rest

Week - 35miles

April 21 - 9miles, 12 x 400 ~80secs, 40s recovery

April 22 - 7.8miles 61mins

April 23 - 10.6miles, 20/15/15 tempo (6.46/6.40/7.13)

April 24,25,26,27 - Cold. Note to self, 12 x 400s recovery was too short. Last 15min tempo on 23rd felt awful, should have bailed early, might have prevented cold. Should have known better....

Week - 28miles

Marathon training starts here!!! Lots of tempo runs, longer interval sessions and long runs... And most importantly, cycle of 3 weeks hard followed by 1 week easy.

April 28 Mon - 5.5miles 44mins

April 29 Tues - 8miles, 12 x 400 79s, 1min recovery

April 30 Wed - 6.3miles 54mins

May 1 Thurs - 11miles, 2 x 20mins tempo (6.36/6.23pace)

May 2 Fri - Rest

May 3 Sat - 10.5miles, 2 x 20mins (6.20pace)

May 4 Sun - 13.2miles 98mins

Week = 55miles

May 5 Mon - 8.6miles 64mins

May 6 Tues - 9.2miles, 2 x 20mins tempo (6.31/6.28pace)

May 7 Wed - 6.5miles 51mins

May 8 Thurs - 6miles, 1mile race & 6 x 200s ~39secs

May 9 Fri - Rest

May 10 Sat - 11miles, 2 x 20mins tempo (6.20/6.28pace)

May 11 Sun (planned!) - 15miles easy

Week = 56miles

Will probably post on weekly basis... Feeling good now. Feel strong, ready for training. Bring it on.

ike

Welcome back RF - was expecting you to reappear anytime! Best of luck with this, will be a great one to have on the bag - looking forward to reading more.

SUNGOD

ah racing flat good to have ya back again, so is it dublin your targeting ?
i have entered dublin so as always i will following your log closely, i really enjoy it . best of luck

Abhainn

Ditto with SUNGOD and ike, welcome back RF!
Your up to a great weekly milage already and some tough sessions.

Interesting how hard your early runs were even though you took only a month lay off.

Looking forward to all the detail. Good man.

Racing Flat

Thanks for the support. Longford too early, Dublin too late, so probably Berlin or Amsterdam...

May 12 Monday - 8.3miles easy

May 13 Tuesday - 10miles, Intervals, 4 x 1mile ~5.45per mile, 4mins recovery

May 14 Wednesday - 8miles easy

May 15 Thursday - 15miles easy

May 16 Friday - Rest

May 17 Saturday - 9miles easy

May 18 Sunday - Rest

Week = 50miles

Easy week next, woo hoo! Should have got tempo run in end of week, but a bit tired, so held off.

Odysseus

Welcome back mate, best of luck with your goal.

Racing Flat

May 19 Mon - Rest

May 20 Tues - easy 5.5m

May 21 Wed - Rest

May 22 Thurs - 7m with 2m race

May 23 Fri - easy 5m

May 24 Sat - 6miles, 2 x 10min tempo (5.58, 6.06 pace)

May 25 Sun - easy 8.6m

Week = 32miles

Enjoyed the easy week, now back to 3 weeks hard....

Racing Flat

May 26 Mon - 9m easy

May 27 Tues - 10m, 4 x 1m ~5.50/mile, 4mins recovery jog

May 28 Wed - 8m easy

May 29 Thurs - 11m, 2 x 20min tempo (6.09/6.07 pace)

May 30 Fri - Rest

May 31 Sat - 10m, 2 x 20min tempo (6.35/6.38 pace)

June 1 Sun - 16m easy (7.43 pace)

Week = 64 miles

Bobby04

Was hoping to see you post with this quest! Best of luck with it, and I'm sure the log will make for great reading. I find your logs help somewhat to explain just how hard these targets are to achieve.

Racing Flat

Bobby04 wrote: »

Was hoping to see you post with this quest! Best of luck with it, and I'm sure the log will make for great reading. I find your logs help somewhat to explain just how hard these targets are to achieve.

All relative though. I've to work really hard to achieve these targets due to my physiological make up I suppose, but for some fellows they wouldn't have to work hard at all for those targets, e.g. I know fellows who do 55mins for 10miles in training as their easy run! I'd say some people read these logs and think 'he should be doing a lot better than that' but essentially I probably don't have the heart and lungs for that. So all you can do is do the best within your limits. Good pb the other night though, so going well now. Thanks for the support.

Racing Flat

June 2 Mon - 9.3miles 72mins with 3 x 1330m intervals (4.48, 4.43, 4.39)

June 3 Tues - 8.2miles easy 66mins

June 4 Wed - Rest

June 5 Thurs - 8.5miles with 3mile time trial. 20secs pb and across the board probably my best performance ever, so delighted, coming into a bit of shape. Considering Im still a tad overweight compared to Ballycotton I've got to be happy.

June 6 Friday - 7.4miles easy, 60mins

June 7 Sat - 17miles easy 2.13 (not that the last 3 miles was easy...)

June 8 Sun - 10.6miles 79mins with 2 x 20mins tempo (6.26, 6.31 but heart rate about 10bpm lower than usual tempo, so good performance but probably still got time-trial and long run in system.

Week Total - 61miles

1 more hard week in this 2nd cycle. 3 more cycles to go then before marathon. Weight starting to come down. Was 4-5lbs above race weight last few months, only 2lbs above now, so that's good. Heart rate down to 40bpm on waking, so that's abother good sign. Fingers crossed I'll stay injury and illness free, and can keep this training up. Long runs will be the problem though. I'm really not cut out from them. Really struggle after 1hour45.

Racing Flat

Mon 9 June - 8miles easy

Tues 10 June - 8miles with 6 x 3mins hard, 2mins easy

Wed 11 June - 8miles easy

Thurs 12 - Sun 15 June - Rest

Week = 24miles

Working away last week and burnt candle at both ends, out late then up at 6 to run, so got a bit run down, so started easy week early and will start hard week earlier next week. Have fitness test and race next week anyway so convenient enough to swap things around.

Woddle

great reading so far keep up the hard work, I have my heart rate down to 46 on waking, its great to see all the hard work paying off.

Racing Flat

Woddle wrote: »

great reading so far keep up the hard work, I have my heart rate down to 46 on waking, its great to see all the hard work paying off.

Keep it up, you're making great improvements. Knowing your old 5 mile time should inspire you, as well as inspiring the rest of us not to take the foot off the pedal...

Racing Flat

Fitness test yesterday, 5 months from last one. Managed to stay on treadmill for extra 3 mins, but more importantly, speed at lactate threshold has increased and heart rate has recuced at lactate threshold. Both signs of improvement according to the tester. Only problem was, I am 2kg heavier than last time as a result VO2max has reduced, but that is due to the formula for calculating VO2max rather than my fitness, or so he says. However, I will be on the health between now and Sep 28th. No more scones, chocolate or crisps. Can't wait for the post-marathon binge already.

So training plan has been firmed up, but quite similar to existing training, just the long run will be gradually stretched out and one of the tempo runs will be replaced by a marathon pace run in the last 2 months. Major thing is that heart rate zones have reduced becuase of the findings on yesterdays test. Possibly shows the improtance of going for regular testing, and maybe not working off generic heart rate zones or formulae such as 220-age etc.

Old zones:
Easy run - 150-160
Tempo - 175-180
Interval >185

New zones:
Easy and long - 145-150
Tempo - 170-175
Interval - 180-185

Interestingly, I was probably using these zones more recently anyway as it just seemed too hard to get above 175 for tempos and 185 for intervals, so maybe the body kind of knows the correct effort...

Woddle

Hi racing flat, cheers for the input on sungods log, what I've learned is, I'm not working hard enough, I've kind of been running all my runs, whether its 10 miles or 5 miles between 150 - 163, and I've calculated my max at 198 which is what I peaked at near the end of the sportsworld 5 mile in May, so I'm goin to incorporate a few faster miles. cheers and keep up the hard work

Racing Flat

Woddle, www.mcmillanrunning.com is a good website, where if you put in your race time it will predict your race time for a lot of other distances, but also suggested training paces. It also has a good step by step guide to creating a running training plan. Initially, just going out jogging at comfortable pace is fine, but after you reach a certain level of fitness you need to stress your system a little more in order to gain a response (of improved fitness). And generally this involves introducing 'sessions' to your training. Continue doing easy runs a number of times a week, but replace one initially, then maybe 2 and then 3 with 'sessions'. The three core sessions generally being an interval (speed) session, a tempo run and a long run. Once you start doing these, you will improve fairly rapidly, but they have to be introduced gradually. What exactly you do in these sessions will depend on your goal race, ie long runs for a marathon might be 22miles but for a 5mile race might only be 10-12miles. Similarly you will do shorter distance intervals faster for shorter races, longer ones slower for longer races (but always at or faster than race pace) with time to rest and recover between each interval effort. Tempo runs should be at or about your 1 hour race pace, or maybe 20-30secs per mile slower than your 5mile or 10krace pace and can last up to 20mins (Jack Daniels advocates one by 20, greg mcmillan 'no more than 2' and my slave driving coach 3 x 20.... I think 1 15mins session would be fine to start off.

Don't be too dictated by pace with these sessions - heart rate or how you feel is a better indicator, as these take into account hills, wind, surface, unlike pace....Interval sessions should be hard, but after the recovery you should be able to do the next one. Tempo runs should be 'comfortably hard' so not as hard as a race, but you should know you're working and be looking forward to the end, but at the end knowing you could speed up or do a bit more if you wanted. All other runs should be nice and comfortable.

SUNGOD

hi RF you said your training programme for marathon is quite smilar to the training your doing at the moment just with a long run getting progressively longer and replacing a tempo run with a race pace run. just wondering is this just your natural progression from regular training to marathon level or is this a "marathon programme" eg hal higdon,brendan o shea
i know its doesnt really matter just curious is all
thanks for the imput on my log very interesting

Racing Flat

SUNGOD wrote: »

hi RF you said your training programme for marathon is quite smilar to the training your doing at the moment just with a long run getting progressively longer and replacing a tempo run with a race pace run. just wondering is this just your natural progression from regular training to marathon level or is this a "marathon programme" eg hal higdon,brendan o shea
i know its doesnt really matter just curious is all
thanks for the imput on my log very interesting

My training would always be more or less the same. Aim for 6 days a week and 50miles. Nowadays I target a big race about 2-3 times a year and focus my training plan towards this. I'll still do lots of other races, but these will be 'training races' hopefully on the way to a good peak for the main race. So far this has worked for Ballycotton and hopefully will also be succesful for Berlin. Previously I used to just train hard all the time and expect to race well in every race, but when I did that I had inconsistent results, with some good races and some poor races. So, frustrated with this, I looked for a change so went for a fitness test and got set on a programme. Typically it consists of:

Mon - easy run
Tues - intervals
Wed - easy run
Thurs - tempo run
Fri - Rest
Sat - tempo run
Sun - long run

For the marathon (target 3 hours) this translates as

Mon - easy 70min
Tues - 4 x 1mile
Wed - easy 70min
Thurs - 2-3 x 20mins at slightly slower than lactate threshold heart rate
Fri - rest
Sat - 2-3 x 20mins tempo
Sun - Long run - gradually building up to 22miles


For 10mile (target 1 hour) it was:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 6 x 1k
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 3 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 3 x 20 tempo
Sun - long run - 90mins / 12miles

For 5k it might be:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 12 x 400
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 2 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 2 x 20 tempo OR 4 x 1mile
Sun - long run 90mins

1 mile might be:

Mon - easy 60
Tues - 8 x 400 (very fast)
Wed - easy 60
Thurs - 2 x 20 tempo
Fri - Rest
Sat - 6 x 800
Sun - long run 90mins

Because the speed comes easy for me, but I struggle more on the longer distances, keeping up the tempo runs and long runs is vital for me - as soon as I drop these, or the mileage, my times slip. After the target race, I will have a week of complete rest and then get back into training for the next target race a few months away. Afetr Berlin, I'll probably just target Ballycotton again for a main peak, with the cross country races in the middle of this. After that I would like to have a good lash off the 1500 over the summer and not sure after that.

As you know SG, above are 'Hard weeks' and every 4th week is an easy week, typically:

Mon - easy 40mins
Tues - 2 x 10mins tempo (40min run altogether)
Wed - Rest
Thurs - easy 40mins
Fri - Rest
Sat - 2 x 10mins tempo
Sun - Rest

And I try to race every 3 weeks. Ideally this will be at the end of the easy week/start of the hard week and a race replaces one of the harder sessions, and I'll go a bit easier the day or 2 before and after the race, without upsetting the training too much.

I'd be interested to see what others think of this.

to answer your original question then, it's not a marathon programme per se, it's just modifying my usual training to meet the requirements of a marathon race. I know a lot of fellows who specifically do a marathon programme and their mileage ups substantially. But I think they probably take it too easy when not in marathon training. Because I race throughout the year, I always need to be at a good level of fitness so the training is much the same just needs to get tweaked a little depending on the upcoming race. But again, I think it's impossible to try and race every race well, so pick the important ones and really train for these, resting up before etc. to get a pb and see the others as hard training runs and any pbs are a bonus. Hope that answers the question!

Racing Flat

Mon 16th June - 2.7miles easy

Tues 17th June - 7miles with fitness test

Wed 18th June - 3.8miles easy

Thurs 19th June - 6.5miles with 4k time trial

Fri 20th June - easy 5.1miles

Sat 21st June - 18.1miles 2hrs22mins

Sun 22nd June - 10miles easy 77mins

Week Total = 53 miles

Racing Flat

Mon 23 June - 10m, 78mins, 142bpm

Tues 24 June - 10.1m, with 4 x 1m (5.39, 5.39, 5.44, 5.37) 4 mins recovery

Wed 25 June - 6.9m, 60mins, 128bpm

Thurs 26 June - Rest

Fri 27 June - 10m with 2 x 20mins tempo (6.21pace 170bpm; 6.27pace 173bpm)

Sat 28 June - 20m, 2hrs30mins, 151bpm

Sun 29 June - 10m, 78mins, 151bpm

Week Total = 67miles

Abhainn

Good detail RF esp on the heart rate. Your training seems to be going well

Have you decided on your Autumn marathon yet? Any races leading up to it?

Racing Flat

Ya, going for Berlin. Have a few low key races, then will do Longford half as the main build-up race prior to the big day. Have raced every 2 weeks for last few weeks in place of a tempo session, short races. Will start longer ones now, have a 5 mile, and then 2 10km's prior to the half. That will do then. Can't race too much when I'm doing the long runs at the weekend - need the energy.

The HR is only interesting when viewed in context. Wed I was at 128bpm, because my legs were so sore after the 4 x 1mile session the night before, that I couldn't go any faster. Also 10mile at end of week in same time was at 10bpm faster than at the start of week, becuase of the fatigue of some harder sessions prior to the end of week 10k...

Happy enough now. At the stage where the legs are always tired, but finding it very easy to do 10mile runs. 10k in a few weeks will be a big test as I will have completed 2 training cycles out of 4, and will train down for it and really give it a lash.

BossArky

Racing Flat, I like the level of detail in this log. Can you give some further info on the following please:

1) How did they calculate your VO2 max? You mentioned that the reading may have been slightly skewed due to you being a tad overweight. I had a test back in January and my VO2 max was sh!te. I'm hoping that a tiny bit of it was due to a high BMI (26). [Of course, the main reason it was crap is 'cos I don't do enough proper cardio]

2) How do you measure your heart rate? Sports watch or something like that?

3) I see that one of your suggested training plan mentions training 6 days a week and aiming for 50 miles. What level runner is that aimed at? i.e. 2 or 3 years? I know that my feet would not have been able to handle that starting from scratch. Maybe they could now, but not sure.

Thanks & good luck for Berlin.

Racing Flat

BossArky wrote: »

1) How did they calculate your VO2 max?

2) How do you measure your heart rate? Sports watch or something like that?

3) I see that one of your suggested training plan mentions training 6 days a week and aiming for 50 miles. What level runner is that aimed at? i.e. 2 or 3 years? I know that my feet would not have been able to handle that starting from scratch.

1) Incremental treadmill fitness test. ie wear mask which records the amount of oxygen you take in and CO2 you exhale. Then stand still for 3 mins while they record resting heart rate and respiratory status etc. then they take blood at the end of the 3 mins to check resting blood lactate levels. Then they start the treadmill at 10km/hour (this will vary depending on your fitness, but they will generally ask about your race times etc. and be able to tell from that roughly what speeds you will be capable of). Heart rate is taken every 30secs I think and blood lactate towards the end of the 3 mins. Then they put the treadmill up to 12 for 3 mins and repeat all tests, then 13, 14, 15 and so on until you can go no more. When I did the test in January I was 10'10". when I did it recently I was 11'00". Because the breathing aparatus calculates a score based on the amount of O2 you can consume (I think), they then divide this by weight in kg's to get the VO2 max score. So if you were at the exact same level of fitness (ie raced the exact same time for the same distance under the same conditions) at the time of two different tests, but were at a different weight at the different test times, your VO2 max scores would be different. In this scenario, the lighter you are, the higher your VO2 max score.

Another reason my VO2 max was lower the second time (I think) was as follows: first time I did it I got to speed 18 and was ready to collapse (you wear a harness in case you do collapse :eek: as it is supposed to be a test to exhaustion). The second time I got to speed 19 and felt more comfortable (relative to how one usually feels at the end of these tests anyway, which kind of feels like a never ending sprint finish at the end of a long race), but knew that there was no way I would make 3 mins at 20 as did the tester. As they take the blood latate level towards the end of the increment, and this is what is used mostly in constructing my training plan (heart rate at lactate turnpoint), we finished the test at the end of 19. But if I carried on for maybe another minute (at speed 20), which I think I could have, I'd have got to the 'almost ready to collapse' stage, hence would have been breathing much harder and so would have probably recorded a higher VO2 max. But as the VO2 max figure is not used for my training plan (and I don't like to have that much pain too often, and I had a race 2 nights later etc etc) I stopped before the point of max exertion.

2) I use a Garmin Forerunner 305 which has a heart rate monitor (have to wear strap around chest) which can be read from a watch.

3) My first run 4 years ago was about 15mins and I had to stop and walk home. Did this x 2 a week initially then upped to x 3, then gradually upped the time. After about 6 months of running 2-3times a week, it gradually upped to 4, then 5, then 6 after about a year. Even then I'd say it took me at least 3 years training before I could regularly do 6 days a week. Up to then even though I planned to do 6 days a week, more often than not I'd only do 4 or 5. But it reached a stage where if I didn't do 50miles a week, my times in races started to slow. So because of this and because after 3 years I was fit enough for it and the body was strong/adapted enough to take it I now try to tun 6 days a week as routine with a 50mile general target. But that's obviously a lot to someone new. Gradually build up. Don't know how much exactly a new person should do, varies on starting fitness I suppose.

Most marathon training plans are 3-4months long with 4-6 days a week running. But I would bnever advise anyone new to do this. If you are new, you should be running for 6 months before trying this as it would probably take that long to tolerate running even 4 times a week. I think it's the people who just do a 3-4 month plan having not run before that find it so difficult and are stiff for days after. Most runners I know can run the next day, probably because they have had a good base prior to embarking on the marathon training plan.

eclectichoney

Very interesting stuff Racing Flat - your log is a mine of technical info!

Racing Flat

Mon 30th June - 8.1m, 66mins, 142bpm

Tues 1st July - 8.2m, 65mins, 147bpm

Wed 2nd July - Rest

Thurs 3rd July - 9.5m with 5m time trial 28.20

Fri 4th July - 8.4m, 69mins, 139bpm

Sat 5th July - 21m, 2.42, 148bpm

Sun 6th July - 11m, 90mins, 137

Weekly Total = 66 miles

A P

Looks to me like you're going to be in perfect shape to break the 3hr barrier. Berlin is the perfect place to do it - I ran it in 2004 and broke it there too. The course is nearly completely flat, and world records have been set there in 2003 and 2007 so that tells you something. The crowds are amazing - they estimated that nearly a million people were out watching it. Finishing through the Brandenburg gate is a fantastic feeling. Keep up the good work and you'll get there. Don't be afraid to take an extra day off if your body needs it. It was the best day of my life - hope it's the best of your's too! Keep us posted.

Racing Flat

Mon 7th July - 8.1m, 63mins, 7.49/mile, 143bpm

Tues 8th July - 10m, with 4 x 1m (5.45,5.45,5.44,5.38)

Wed 9th July - Rest

Thurs 10th July - Rest

Fri 11th July - 12m, 93mins, 7.45/mile, 156bpm

Sat 12th July - Rest

Sun 13th July - Rest

Weekly Total = 30 miles

Took APs advice and took a few extra days off this week. Came to end of hard 3 week cycle, anyway, so no harm. Will try to get a bit of speedwork in next week or two and then back to the hard miles for the last 2 months.

Racing Flat

Mon 14th July - 11.2m 78mins: 25mins tempo 6.11/mile, HR171, 15mins tempo 6.27/mile HR170

Tues 15th July - 11.2m easy 84mins

Wed 16th July - 11.2m 86mins: Intervals 8 x 3mins hard, 3 mins easy

Thurs 17th July - 11.2m 85mins

Fri 18th July - 11.2m 80mins: 35mins tempo 6.19/mile, HR165

Sat 19th July - Rest

Sun 20th July - 6.5m 47mins: 2 x 10mins tempo (5.58/mile @ 166bpm; 5.57/mile @ 169bpm)

Weekly Total = 63miles

Racing Flat

Mon 21st July - Rest

Tues 22nd July - 6m, 48mins

Wed 23rd July - Rest

Thurs 24th July - 10m with 10k time trial 36.5mins

Fri 25th July - 8.3m, 65mins, 7.52pace, 143bpm

Sat 26th July - 20.7m, 2.39, 7.43pace, 144bpm

Sun 27th July - 8.8m, 69mins, 7.57pace, 143bpm

Weekly Total = 54miles

Racing Flat

Mon 28th July - 10m, 76mins, 7.40pace, 146bpm

Tues 29th July - 10.4m with 8 x 800 ~2.45each

Wed 30th July - 7.2m, 58mins, 8.10pace, 138bpm

Thurs 31st July - 11.3m including 40mins tempo, 6.15pace @ 168bpm, 6.4m

Fri 1st Aug - Rest

Sat 2nd Aug - 22.2m, 2.54, 7.52pace, 141bpm

Sun 3rd Aug - 10m, 74mins, 7.27pace, 142bpm

Weekly Total = 71miles

Racing Flat

Mon 4th Aug - 10.2m, 77mins, 7.33pace, 144bpm

Tues 5th Aug - 10.3m incl. 4 x 1m ~5.42

Wed 6th Aug - Rest

Thurs 7th Aug - 11.8m incl. 45min tempo, 6.16pace, 173bpm

Fri 8th Aug - Rest

Sat 9th Aug - Rest

Sun 10th Aug - 21m, 2.36, 7.27pace, 155bpm

Weekly Total = 53 miles

Racing Flat

A bit disappointed with last week. Missed Wednesday run due to work committments, so decided to do this Friday. But felt a little run down Friday and Saturday so took the days off. Did the trick as I was ready for a long run then on Sunday. Disappointed because I was hoping for a 60-70mile week, but happy that I only missed 2 easy 8-10milers, got all the key sessions in for the week. And perhaps by taking those days off I missed only 2 days rather than a week with a cold...

Handy enough fortnight ahead now training wise as I have a 10k and a half marathon at the weekends, will hopefully then get 2-3 final heavy weeks in before the taper. Can't wait for the half marathon, should give an indiaction as to where I stand.

Abhainn

Racing Flat -"A bit disappointed with last week"

Me thinks still a good week with 50+ miles. Wise decision to take off a couple of rest days. Your well on target though. Have you target times for the two races ahead?

Busy week for me ahead but reducing the long run next weekend to 16 as per you advise. Longford week after so that week will be easy.
Also probably two hard weeks left after that before taper. Maybe a 10K race on the 14 Sept

Racing Flat

Abhainn,

Would like to break 36 for 10k, but it will be as part of a triathlon relay so not too sure what to expect. Also, using it as a hard tempo run in build up to longford half, so won't train down as much as normal, so not too concerned about time for this, just want a good effort. For Longford, I want to break 80. This would be a big PB, but based on a 59.59 from Ballycotton a few months back, I shouldn't be too far off, but all depends on course and weather etc I supose. I intend going off at 80min pace anyway and see how it goes.

I personally wouldn't be too keen on a 10k 2 weeks before the marathon. Although I know it suits others. You'd recover in time, but the physical and mental drain just 2 weeks before is too much for me. Plus for a few days after you will be heavy legged, when I like to feel good during taper. Did a 5mile cross country a few years ago about 2 weeks before Dublin, thinking it would be a great final blow-out, but it just didn't suit me. So 5 weeks before with the half will be my last race.

Racing Flat

Mon 11th Aug - 8.5m, 68mins, 8.04pace, 143bpm

Tues 12th Aug - 13.7m, 25 x 400 - first 15 at 10mile pace (90s), last 10 at 5mile pace (85s) with 200m jog (8min pace) recovery

Wed 13th Aug - Rest

Thurs 14th Aug - 8.4m, 69mins, 8.15pace, 145bpm

Fri 15th Aug - Rest

Sat 16th Aug - 9.5m, 10k time trial 37.09, 5.58pace, 178bpm

Sun 17th Aug - Rest

Weekly Total = 40 miles

Happy with 10k, good work out prior to half marathon next week. Terrible conditions, water up to knees in places, wind and rain. Easy taper week now, can't wait for half marathon. Hopefully weather improves.

blah

Racing Flat wrote: »

..., but based on a 59.59 from Ballycotton a few months back...

Quick question, when you say 59.59, what distance are you referring to? Thanks.

Edit: just googled it, found you original log. A 10 mile road race it is so. Well done on completing it in 59.59. Good luck with the marathon!

cfitz

Hey,

Was just having a look at your last few logs there. Have one or two questions:

How come there's so many rest days?

People have different hearts, but you seem to be doing your runs at a very low heart rate - is this because you've moved up to marathon training? I'd be tempted to push up towards 160bpm on some of them runs...

Seems like things are going fairly well for you, hope it continues.

Racing Flat

cfitz, on a 3 weeks hard, 1 week easy schedule. This week is supposed to be the easy week, leading up to half marathon on Sunday. Last week had a 10k on Sat and with travelling to and from missed the Friday and Sunday runs. Week before felt I was a bit run down so took 2 days off. Other than that, have generally done 6 days a week on hard weeks. So not too happy with prospect of 3 4 day weeks in a row, but not too concerned as I got all my key sessions in, only missed some of the easy run days.

I suppose I'll find out on Sunday. Following that I'll have 2 hard weeks, hopefully 60-70miles, with a 22mile run long run in each of those, then taper down with a 55(18mile long run), 45 (13mile long run), 25 (marathon week) or something like that.

Re heart rate, had a VO2max/lactate threshold test, and based on this my heat rates were worked out. My lactate threshold occurs at 178bpm, so I am supposed to do tempo runs bewteen 170-175bpm. Easy runs are supposed to be around 145bpm and speed sessions above 175bpm. My heart rate max was 189 on that test, although 193 the one before that. These zones seemed to work for me for a 10mile race I was going for, so went back for a repeat test, with slight readjustments made for the marathon. Have had a few PBs at 4k, 3 miles and 5 miles (missed out on 10k as you know, possibly due to poor tactics ie going out too fast, or else fatigue from travelling) while on this plan. So feeling quite good, last few weeks not perfect, but I think by taking a few rest days I might have staved off a cold. Will find out on Sunday anyway!


PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Abhainn

Racing Flat wrote: »

PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Every one is different and I am not an expert on lactate threshold or VO2 max.
But for long runs I aim to run under 149bpm (80% HRM) rather than keep at a set pace. Right now this equates to average 7:35 pace mile and I find this comfortable and works for me. As I said for others this may be different.
But any quicker than that and I find that you use up fuel more quickly.
I used to bring carb drink on my runs runs prior to this marathon schedule but I've stopped this and find no effect on the run itself. I just bring along water and some lemon cordial.

I would not do tempo runs or speed sessions as hard as you mainly because I have not great speed. Id say I'd struggle to get even under 5:40 for a mile now. I'd rather do a long MP run than a speed session any day.

cfitz

Racing Flat wrote: »

Re heart rate, had a VO2max/lactate threshold test, and based on this my heat rates were worked out. My lactate threshold occurs at 178bpm, so I am supposed to do tempo runs bewteen 170-175bpm. Easy runs are supposed to be around 145bpm and speed sessions above 175bpm. My heart rate max was 189 on that test, although 193 the one before that. These zones seemed to work for me for a 10mile race I was going for, so went back for a repeat test, with slight readjustments made for the marathon. Have had a few PBs at 4k, 3 miles and 5 miles (missed out on 10k as you know, possibly due to poor tactics ie going out too fast, or else fatigue from travelling) while on this plan. So feeling quite good, last few weeks not perfect, but I think by taking a few rest days I might have staved off a cold. Will find out on Sunday anyway!


PS - easy runs supposed to be 70-80% heart rate max, from what I gather. 160 would be 84% for me, so probably would be in rubbish mile territory - not fast enough to improve my lactate threshold or VO2max, but fast enough to use up a lot of energy and run me down, so not enough energy left for the hard sessions...I try to do my speed sessions and tempo runs hard, and don't worry too much about pace on the easy runs and long runs - will stick to the recommended heart rate zone, rather than pace, but this usually works out at 7.30-7.50pace unless I'm tired, in which case the slower the better. Thoughts appreciated.

Well you have the tests and the maths done so I won't argue with that - I was going from personal experience. I did a vo2 max test and a lactate threshold test in college (about 6 years ago I'd say) and my max heart rate for both tests was 218. I don't think this is very normal though. What does your heart rate be before you begin running? I'm not using a heart rate monitor at the moment but a few months ago it would have been about 57bpm before I started I think.

On my easy weeks I do the same amount of runs, just reduce the length of them.

Racing Flat

cfitz wrote: »

my max heart rate for both tests was 218. I don't think this is very normal though.

What does your heart rate be before you begin running?

On my easy weeks I do the same amount of runs, just reduce the length of them.

218 is probably higher than average, but normal for you. Using a generic formula, your training paces should be 70-80% (152-174) of this for easy runs, around 90% (196) for tempo runs and >95% (207) for speed sessions. Max heart rate can change though so might be no harm to go for another test seeing as it was 6 years ago.

My HR first thing in the morning is now around 40bpm.

The advice given to me on easy weeks was to reduce quantity and quality, so normally (might be a bit different for marathon as I'm doing more miles anyway) I'd go from 6 days (50miles) to 4 days (30miles) with just 2 easy 40min runs and 2 runs with 2 x 10mins tempo. This feels strange like I'm doing nothing but tend to feel great at the end of the week, so good time to have a race, or in any case I'm well ready for the next 3 hard weeks.

cfitz

Racing Flat wrote: »

The advice given to me on easy weeks was to reduce quantity and quality, so normally (might be a bit different for marathon as I'm doing more miles anyway) I'd go from 6 days (50miles) to 4 days (30miles) with just 2 easy 40min runs and 2 runs with 2 x 10mins tempo. This feels strange like I'm doing nothing but tend to feel great at the end of the week, so good time to have a race, or in any case I'm well ready for the next 3 hard weeks.

On my easy weeks I aim to maintain the same quality but reduce quantity. I do 75% of a normal week. So a 60 minute run becomes a 45 minute run (at a similar pace to what I normally do a 60 minute run in). And a 4 x 1600m session might become 3 x 1600m without increasing the pace.

For the runs I tend to be thinking it's an easy week so I stay relaxed and the pace is often slower than it's meant to be. But for the sessions sometimes I can't help pushing them on because I know I've only a few reps to do.

Woddle

Cheers racing flat and best of luck, look forward to seeing how quickly you go. I've been keeping a close eye on your training as its the level that I would like to achieve in the future. enjoy tomorrow.

SUNGOD

best of luck tommorrow

Odysseus

Good luck tomorrow mate, all you guys have me jealous that I'm not going.

Abhainn

RF 1:19:59.

Hope this gale blows itself out by 11am tomorrow

Racing Flat

Mon 18th Aug - 6.4m, 47mins, 7.24pace, 152bpm

Tues 19th Aug - 7.8m, 2 x 10mins tempo, 6.01pace @ 178bpm + 5.54pace @ 181bpm

Wed 20th Aug - 5.5m, 44mins, 8.07pace, 151bpm

Thurs 21st Aug - 6.2m, 50mins, 8.08pace, 145bpm

Fri 22nd Aug - Rest

Sat 23rd Aug - 3.2m, 26mins, with 3 x 40secs @ half mara race pace

Sun 24th Aug - 16m, half marathon 83mins

Weekly Total = 45 miles

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

RF 1:19:59.

Hope this gale blows itself out by 11am tomorrow

Nowhere near! 83mins. Happy enough, lungs were okay but legs found it tough. 80mins probably a bit ambitious, I'm not fit enough for that just yet. A 1 minute PB, so happy enough.

Odysseus

Congrats impressive time Racing Flat.