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Vegetable oil

  • 22-05-2008 5:02pm
    #1
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Anyone attempt to run vegetable oil in their diesal. I have my megane outside and I'm very tempted since I paid 1.37 per L of diesal today:eek:.

    It's a relatively old Renault megane I'm driving so I'd like to experiment.
    Saying that it's my only form of transport so I can't afford to ruin the engine either.


    Cheers


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Brother just went out and bought 2 dozen 2LTr bottles of vedgie oil from Tesco and added a 30% mix straight into the tank of his 94 VW Passat. He recons he is safe enough with a Bosch fuel pump.


  • #3
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    Cool, some guys are telling me to add a 20% petrol or keroscene to the vegtable oil and dump it all in and smile:)

    The idea of that is to thin out the oil so it flows better through the fuel pump/injector


  • #4
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    mondeo wrote: »
    Cool, some guys are telling me to add a 20% petrol or keroscene to the vegtable oil and dump it all in and smile:)

    The idea of that is to thin out the oil so it flows better through the fuel pump/injector
    You have much more flexibility to play around with vegie oil mixtures if you using a standard fuel pump. If you are using one of these rubbish common rail fuel systems that they are fitting to nearly all cars these days you could do 1000's worth of damage if you got it wrong!!


  • #5
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Just been down to Aldi for my weekly topup of veg oil and noticed they have increased there veg oil from .69 cent Per Litre to 99cents Per Litre ,thats a 43% rise over night ,Whats goin on.......
    Lidl and Tesco have done the same so it seems to be across the board,
    Running my 96 Peugeot 406 Td on 50/50 veg/Diesel at the moment and its loving it.
    If your megane is td (Not dci)with a bosch pump you should be fine,maybe start of with a 20/80 mix and see how that goes,the way the veg oil prices are going it may not be worth it..
    row.


  • #6
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    It was only a matter of time before they would. Is there any other oil that one could use :confused: ?


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  • #7
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    Damn! well, thats put a right dampener on my plan of getting hold of a diesel and shelling out 2k for a conversion.


    Whats peoples opinions on using 'recycled' veggie when used on a motor with a 1 tank conversion?


  • #8
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Remember folks... no matter what alternative we turn to it will escalate in price either through demand or supplier greed..

    Anyone any idea of the decrease in MPG for the veg oil mixes ? I've been told there is a 20-30% decrease depending on the mix :eek:
    Combine this with rising costs and it doesnt seem so worthwhile..

    Me thinks there will be no easy answer only PAY, PAY, PAY


  • #9
    Oilrig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Oilrig


    Snake Oil...

    Ive yet to see a Diesel, thats run on veg oil/bio fuel etc that has passed 30K miles without issues.

    This morning, a bloke opposite me, with a VW Caddy van - running on Bio for the last 18 months, spent 45 seconds trying to start it, same every morning, slowly getting worse...

    BIL is an academic agricultural type, he explained the issues involved with Bio one night, doesn't make economic sense to produce high standard bio fuel was the jest of it.


  • #10
    StonedParadoX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭StonedParadoX


    Oilrig wrote: »
    Snake Oil...

    Ive yet to see a Diesel, thats run on veg oil/bio fuel etc that has passed 30K miles without issues.

    This morning, a bloke opposite me, with a VW Caddy van - running on Bio for the last 18 months, spent 45 seconds trying to start it, same every morning, slowly getting worse...

    BIL is an academic agricultural type, he explained the issues involved with Bio one night, doesn't make economic sense to produce high standard bio fuel was the jest of it.

    his van is going to die it happened to mine

    is his a 2 tank system or a one tank?
    if its one he should be fine

    on cold days i bet he has some serious ****in trouble lol i know i had

    tell him some fella on boards wants to buy his van


  • #11
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    You could buy the veg oil online or go direct to a supplier and buy it in bulk. I have a spare oil tank for the home heating oil and it holds 800 litres and the idea is to fill it up with 80% veg 20% keroscene. Fill my car secretly in the back garden. TAX free juice.

    My megane is a 00' TDi,


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  • #12
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    There is another side to this whole argument...
    So lots of us run round with some mixture of diesel/veg oli in our diesels..
    As seen already the price of veg oil goes up.. There is already a problem with crops for fuel compeeting with food crops, then the price of food crops goes up.. Who pays for that ??
    Fuel is a limited commodity and as developing nations consume more the price goes up..

    The real shame in Ireland is that there is no alternative to the car but we're still being taxed to put us out of our cars.. So many people live in areas that could be served by a decent efficient public transport system but aren't..


  • #13
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    mondeo wrote: »
    You could buy the veg oil online or go direct to a supplier and buy it in bulk. I have a spare oil tank for the home heating oil and it holds 800 litres and the idea is to fill it up with 80% veg 20% keroscene. Fill my car secretly in the back garden. TAX free juice.

    My megane is a 00' TDi,

    Why not just use agri marked diesel... Easier and just as illegal ;)


  • #14
    vectra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,621 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Mines a new 1.4tdi SEAT Cordoba.
    What are the chances of me being able to throw the odd litre into my full tank?
    Good or Bad ?:confused:


  • #15
    StonedParadoX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭StonedParadoX


    you know correct me if im wrong but MY Understanding of running a car on veggie oil was that u had to get a Conversion kit that cost like 1 grand and these fellas down past wicklow did it or something

    thats what i was told or was explained to me when i did it

    i think questions are going to be asked at the breakfast table tommorow


  • #16
    HJL
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭HJL


    Row wrote: »
    Just been down to Aldi for my weekly topup of veg oil and noticed they have increased there veg oil from .69 cent Per Litre to 99cents Per Litre ,thats a 43% rise over night ,Whats goin on.......
    Lidl and Tesco have done the same so it seems to be across the board

    Havent noticed this in Tesco in Letterkenny yet. Although they never have the 3 litre bottles when i go in. But still maked at €2.04. I just got 4 litres of the single litre bottles, still at 69c each. That was last Thurs i think. I knew it went up in the UK a few weeks ago too, so assumed it would happen here too. Hoped to have stockpiled some by then though, but it looks like im too late.
    Mite start switching my engine off going down hills, save some juice!


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    yeah saw 1euro 40.9 cent per litre of diesel at local station

    gettin ridiculous... why oh why didnt we look into alternatives before the sh** started to hit the fan


  • #18
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    StonedParadoX wrote: »
    you know correct me if im wrong but MY Understanding of running a car on veggie oil was that u had to get a Conversion kit that cost like 1 grand and these fellas down past wicklow did it or something

    thats what i was told or was explained to me when i did it

    i think questions are going to be asked at the breakfast table tommorow

    You dont really need a conversion kit as so to speak, someone just trying to make some money out of those trying veg oil. People Whom I have heard who have used veg oil never made any mods to their engines. As literal as just pooring it into the tank and say no more and off ya go. At least that is my intention anyways.

    Maybe in some incidences a stronger fuel pump should be fitted but that would not cost a fortune to do should it save complications down the line


  • #19
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    yeah saw 1euro 40.9 cent per litre of diesel at local station

    gettin ridiculous... why oh why didnt we look into alternatives before the sh** started to hit the fan

    Highest I have heard so far


  • #20
    HJL
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭HJL


    mondeo wrote: »
    Highest I have heard so far
    prepare to see that price yourself, Dry Arch filling station in Letterkenny, Co. Donegal was €140.9 per litre this evening too, so its not just that one place at that price.
    Wages are going to have to start going up, cost of running a car now is going up and up with every week. €2 a litre before christmas i reckon, i heard that on the radio way back and laughed. The smile is no longer on my face folks, its looking like its going to be the reality.


  • #21
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    HJL wrote: »
    prepare to see that price yourself, Dry Arch filling station in Letterkenny, Co. Donegal was €140.9 per litre this evening too, so its not just that one place at that price.
    Wages are going to have to start going up, cost of running a car now is going up and up with every week. €2 a litre before christmas i reckon, i heard that on the radio way back and laughed. The smile is no longer on my face folks, its looking like its going to be the reality.

    If I'm forced to pay 2 euro a litre by xmas I'll be getting rid of the car and getting an electric scooter instead.


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  • #22
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    mondeo wrote: »
    You dont really need a conversion kit as so to speak, someone just trying to make some money out of those trying veg oil.
    Any links to verify this mondeo? I got a rough price on conversion yesterday - will be around 2k. With rising price of veggie, I'm beginning to think this isnt the route to take.
    I suppose if buying a diesel with mileage on and low value (as an example, someone down road selling light van for 1800 euro) - its probably worth taking the risk?
    Would it be right to say that vehicles with the bosch fuel pumps can stand up to the test better?
    mondeo wrote: »
    You could buy the veg oil online or go direct to a supplier and buy it in bulk.
    I also have access to a spare tank. Where can you source in bulk and whats the price/ltr?


  • #23
    3ps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭3ps


    don't spend 2k on a kit unless you are in this for the long haul.

    to anybody thinking of doing this..... you can only "dump" veggie in if you have... in general.... an older diesel engine.... think mid 90's or earlier.... and even then you have to be careful about what pump you have and the condition of the car etc etc.

    If you have any kind of newer engine then you will wreck it. You need the conversion kit.

    For anybody seriously thinking of doing this I recommend that you post on www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk forums.


  • #24
    andreas_220D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭andreas_220D


    Oilrig wrote: »
    Ive yet to see a Diesel, thats run on veg oil/bio fuel etc that has passed 30K miles without issues.

    my old W115 220D made about 35K km before i sold it (still running). Currently we run 2 converted engines, one recently made 20K km, the other is rarely driven but made 7.5K km so far.


    Ok, i admit, all old school prechamber engines:D


    Anyway, facing the fact that the price for veggie oil will match the Diesel price soon and i haven't managed to find a supplier/retailer yet who is willing to give me a quote about 1000 litres, i'm afraid that running on veggie oil won't be an alternative any longer soon.


  • #25
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    3ps wrote: »
    don't spend 2k on a kit unless you are in this for the long haul.

    to anybody thinking of doing this..... you can only "dump" veggie in if you have... in general.... an older diesel engine.... think mid 90's or earlier.... and even then you have to be careful about what pump you have and the condition of the car etc etc.

    If you have any kind of newer engine then you will wreck it. You need the conversion kit.

    For anybody seriously thinking of doing this I recommend that you post on www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk forums.
    As I mentioned on another thread. Manufacturers are now fitting these cheap quality "Common Rail" fuel pumps into most diesel motors. These are designed to fall apart with the slightest intolerance, i.e. water, tampered farmers diesel or veg oil mixture and will cost hundreds or thousands to replace or recondition. If you have a new car and are thinking about throwing veg oil straight into your thank think twice before you do it.


  • #26
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Bosch fuel pumps are ideal for veg oil. The only problem is that veg oil eats through all the rubber seals in the fuel system, so you will have to change the seals to veg oil friendly seals.


  • #27
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Oilrig wrote: »
    Snake Oil...

    Ive yet to see a Diesel, thats run on veg oil/bio fuel etc that has passed 30K miles without issues.


    WTF are you on about. There are plenty of well documented case studies of cars running on BioDiesel over 100k miles around the world. E85 which is sold at the pumps is also a Biofuel.

    You friend in the Van likely needs to change his fuel filter, if he is running Veg Oil then he is just playing the waiting game till it breaks something or other. If Biodiesel then likely his fuel filter is clogged (with petro diesel debris cleaned out by the BD) due to his own neglect. Its not clear what he is running as you are confused over what Biofuels are and are not.

    The technology, manufacturer warranties and international commercial rollout of BioDiesel wouldnt exist if it was "snake oil".

    This fear and uncertainty about alternate fuels thats floating around at the moment is sickening, its like Im in a country consisting of neophytes and scaremongers. Go do some research instead of recalling what you heard one night.


  • #28
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    this bloke seems to have his merc going grand - and you can email him questions -

    http://www.geocities.com/vegoilcar/


  • #29
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Bosch fuel pumps are ideal for veg oil. The only problem is that veg oil eats through all the rubber seals in the fuel system, so you will have to change the seals to veg oil friendly seals.

    Ref. the seals - Is this expensive to do? do you think that with a bosch fuel pump, and swapping the seals - if I decide to buy this diesel for small money .ie 1500 euro (00 seat inca 1.9D with 120k miles), its worth the punt without the expense of conversion??

    Conversion right now just cannot be justified as far as i can see..


  • #30
    JimmyCrackCorn!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭JimmyCrackCorn!


    Price of a bag of chips is going to go up now two.:rolleyes:
    I hate it when the hippies are right.:(


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  • #31
    andreas_220D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭andreas_220D


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    The only problem is that veg oil eats through all the rubber seals in the fuel system, so you will have to change the seals to veg oil friendly seals.
    You don't have to change the seals for PPO. You need to change them if you want to run on Biodiesel.


  • #32
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    JimmyCrackCorn! wrote: »
    Price of a bag of chips is going to go up .:(
    Nah...they just won't be as greasy!


  • #33
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    The price of a bag o chips should come done in theory (but it'll never happen as well all know!)

    reason being is that the chipper will now get to sell off it old used oil, thus make money from it - before they had to dispose of it themselves..........now in this new eco friendly age, its going to be of some value to them and a small revenue stream.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyCrackCorn! wrote: »
    Price of a bag of chips is going to go up now two.:rolleyes:
    I hate it when the hippies are right.:(

    there there, nobody likes it

    mondeo wrote: »
    Highest I have heard so far

    Topaz Lucan village, Ive seen 1.39 in Maynooth so its an unusual price


  • #35
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    andreas_220D wrote: »
    You don't have to change the seals for PPO. You need to change them if you want to run on Biodiesel.


    If you run a car older than 1993, otherwise you dont have to do anything:

    http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Materials_Compatibility.pdf


  • #36
    andreas_220D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭andreas_220D


    Matt Simis wrote: »
    If you run a car older than 1993, otherwise you dont have to do anything
    Thanks for the update.


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  • #37
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    andreas_220D wrote: »
    You don't have to change the seals for PPO. You need to change them if you want to run on Biodiesel.

    http://www.ehow.com/how_2004136_vegetable-oil-fuel.html Yes you do need to change the seals when using veg oil as the fuel pump is under more pressure pumping thicker oil as a result it pumps faster putting pressure on the seals.


  • #38
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Eurorunner wrote: »
    Ref. the seals - Is this expensive to do? do you think that with a bosch fuel pump, and swapping the seals - if I decide to buy this diesel for small money .ie 1500 euro (00 seat inca 1.9D with 120k miles), its worth the punt without the expense of conversion??

    Conversion right now just cannot be justified as far as i can see..
    It isn't expensive to change the seals. The labour is the biggest cost.


  • #39
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭mondeo


    Thinning the oil out with the use of petrol is what some guys are doing, or with the use of keroscene, would that not prevent having to change all the oil seals?


  • #40
    andreas_220D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭andreas_220D


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    http://www.ehow.com/how_2004136_vegetable-oil-fuel.html Yes you do need to change the seals when using veg oil as the fuel pump is under more pressure pumping thicker oil as a result it pumps faster putting pressure on the seals.
    Not a word about pump pressures in that article. And the asserton in that article that vegetable oil acts as a solvent for rubber is not true. It's Biodiesel which solves rubber.


  • #41
    andreas_220D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭andreas_220D


    mondeo wrote: »
    Thinning the oil out with the use of petrol is what some guys are doing, or with the use of keroscene, would that not prevent having to change all the oil seals?
    Again, if you have rubber seals, you only need to change them if you want to run on Biodiesel. PPO does NOT act as a rubber sovent.


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  • #42
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    andreas_220D wrote: »
    Again, if you have rubber seals, you only need to change them if you want to run on Biodiesel. PPO does NOT act as a rubber sovent.
    Are you running a diesel car with ppo as you seem very sure that ppo doesn't damage seals? Could you print a link to back up your statement?


  • #43
    babyjames
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭babyjames


    Drive an 04 mondeao chia tdci put 50 euro a week in used to 35 to 40 . will putting a third veggie oil with some additave like redex work:confused:


  • #44
    babyjames
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭babyjames


    :confused:
    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Are you running a diesel car with ppo as you seem very sure that ppo doesn't damage seals? Could you print a link to back up your statement?


  • #45
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Just to clarify again, the solvent question is entirely irrelevant for the vast majority of cars on the road as they are newer than 15years old (1993).


  • #46
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    Does anyone have a link to a complete bio diesel filtering kit? Curious as to what it costs for a complete kit.

    How easy is it to secure supply? What are most fast food businesses doing with their waste oil at the moment??


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=285676&page=13


  • #48
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=285676&page=13
    Thanks for that. Made for interesting reading.


    How difficult is it to secure waste veggie oil supply? Are most take aways/restaurants already having it collected by someone?


  • #49
    3ps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭3ps


    babyjames wrote: »
    Drive an 04 mondeao chia tdci put 50 euro a week in used to 35 to 40 . will putting a third veggie oil with some additave like redex work:confused:

    NO


  • #50
    jimogr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 624 ✭✭✭jimogr


    Whats the story with tax and duty? If you get dipped by customs and are running on veg oil will you not get fined for not having paid duty on yout fuel?


  • #51
    Jomcc
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Jomcc


    Being caught running on veg oil without having proof that you paid for the necessary conversion is the same as running on agri diesel. Also, PPO supplier would not sell me oil without copy of invoice for conversion. He also recorded reg number of vehicle. I'm looking forward to being dipped and see how it goes..


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