The Destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Beelzebub · 16-05-2008 05:43AM

eo980 wrote: »

Wow I can't believe some of the opinions being expressed here. In the thread I linked too it was mentioned that the Green isn't the ideal place for a central hub as it's not strictly in the city centre and it was suggested that O'Connell Street or it's surrounds would make a much better location for a central station. I'd have to agree with this.

More importantly however do you not hold anything close to your heart in regards to the city? Do you not think its important to have somewhere to escape the manic nature of the city for a short while, somewhere you can bring someone for a stroll, take the kids etc. Do you not realise the importance of maturity, the beauty of it? You can't just rip the green up and patch it back together when your done, only nature can do that.

Would you not agree that the mature tree's that used to line O'Connell Street were far better looking than those that we have now and gave the place a better atmosphere?

I agree with you my friend, but it seems that a lot of people do not share our views.
The world is becoming an ever more soulless and cynical place.
Respite and sanctuary from a world gone mad are becoming ever more rare.
The more things change the more they change utterly.

monument · 16-05-2008 06:08AM

Come on, let's not get carried away here.

About 3/4 of the park will remain open to the public over the construction of the Metro and Dart stations.

mikemac · 16-05-2008 06:39AM

GPO is the city centre.
In several dirctions you can find milestones for 1 miles, 2 miles, 3 miles etc from the GPO.
For example you can find a series in North Strand, Marino and Artane.

Therefore it is the city centre marker

Btw, a large section of Fairview Park was closed for the Port Tunnell but it's been reseeded and repaired and almost back to normal

MagicMarker · 16-05-2008 07:21AM

eo980 wrote: »

I put it here because I was in such shock that this was even considered and wanted to see what other posters opinions were. I'm not old, I'm 30 but the level of apathy that my generation and others display in their daily lives leaves me feeling dismayed for our future.

Bulldozing something and building a new road, or office block or whatever isn't always progress. I have no doubt that future generations will look back on us and be horrified at some of the decisions that we let happen.

Do you honestly believe future generations could care less about this?

Do you believe the city centre has looked the way it does since time began? No, it hasn't, this is how it works, things expand, get bigger, some would say better. Yeah it may suck, but once the metro is in place and working, no one will even remember how things looked before. Do you remember what O'Connell St looked like before it was dug up? I sure as hell can't.

6th · 16-05-2008 08:13AM

randylonghorn wrote: »

OCast:
Mulder: 6th
Scully: Azezil

Well you've managed to capture the sexual tension anyway.

16-05-2008 08:32AM

This post has been deleted.

Terry · 16-05-2008 08:36AM

This is the reason that nothing gets done in this country.
There's always some group of fúckwads complaining that the scenery will be destroyed.
Get the **** over it.
I really am sick to death of all this bitching and moaning, yet the same people will turn around and tell you that this country sucks because of the lack of public transport, and then when the public transport is made available, they won't use it because they feel it's below their social standing.

This happens in every town in the country and it's always the same bunch of arseholes complaining.
Move with the fúcking times.

You want some greenery in your city? The fúcking Phoenix park is the largest urban park in Europe and it's only down the road. Mind you, it may require you (and I'm really sorry about this) using public transport to get there.

Terry · 16-05-2008 08:36AM

The Scientist wrote: »

How does this effect the other 31 Counties?

Tourism.

Sherifu · 16-05-2008 08:57AM

Damn shame.

monkeyfudge · 16-05-2008 09:02AM

micmclo wrote: »

Btw, a large section of Fairview Park was closed for the Port Tunnell but it's been reseeded and repaired and almost back to normal

Has it f*ck... sticking some grass down does not equate restoring the damage that was done. No effort at all has been made to make it look the way it originally did.

humanji · 16-05-2008 09:06AM

It reminds me of an old 2000AD comic where Judge Dredd went to Ireland. Due to progress (ie Ireland being made into a giant theme park) Stephens Green had been reduced to 12 blades of grass and a shrub named Kevin. Then Dredd ran over it

[/Nerd]

Well anyway, I'm all for putting Mother Nature in her place. That's what she gets for besetting us with plagues and floods!!!

Davidius · 16-05-2008 09:09AM

Good old Dublin, always trying to be like a real city. :pac:

Sam Vimes · 16-05-2008 09:29AM

Terry wrote: »

yet the same people will turn around and tell you that this country sucks because of the lack of public transport, and then when the public transport is made available, they won't use it because they feel it's below their social standing.

ah you see the public transport gets all the commoners off the streets so they can drive their bentleys around in peace

Blisterman · 16-05-2008 09:44AM

It's stupid ending a metro line, smack bang in the middle of the city.

It seems to me, the sensible thing to do, would be to continue the tunnel , past stephens green, and up to charlemont, where it would resurface, and connect with the Luas Line, creating a continous metro line, from the Airport, through town, and to Sandyford.

You could then pull up the Luas track on Harcourt Street, make traffic move a bit faster.

If anyone has a good reason, why they're not doing this, let me know.

Kintarō Hattori · 16-05-2008 09:48AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do you honestly believe future generations could care less about this?

Do you believe the city centre has looked the way it does since time began? No, it hasn't, this is how it works, things expand, get bigger, some would say better. Yeah it may suck, but once the metro is in place and working, no one will even remember how things looked before. Do you remember what O'Connell St looked like before it was dug up? I sure as hell can't.

I do believe future generations will bemoan us for allowing this to happen. Look let's take Paris as an example. A wonderful historic city with oozes of character. At some point in the 60's or 70's they decided to try out a high rise building in the city centre. When it was done everyone agreed that it looked completely out of place and didn't fit in with the charm and character of the place and to that effect the government outlawed anymore highrise buildings in the city centre and you'll only find them on the outskirts of Paris. That's good planning.

I do remember how O'Connell Street looked before it was dug up and it was amazing, a far nicer place than it is now with wonderful big mature tree's, lots of flowerpots and benches to sit on. It was a far nicer place than it is now.

Kintarō Hattori · 16-05-2008 09:52AM

Terry wrote: »

This is the reason that nothing gets done in this country.
There's always some group of fúckwads complaining that the scenery will be destroyed.
Get the **** over it.
I really am sick to death of all this bitching and moaning, yet the same people will turn around and tell you that this country sucks because of the lack of public transport, and then when the public transport is made available, they won't use it because they feel it's below their social standing.

This happens in every town in the country and it's always the same bunch of arseholes complaining.
Move with the fúcking times.

You want some greenery in your city? The fúcking Phoenix park is the largest urban park in Europe and it's only down the road. Mind you, it may require you (and I'm really sorry about this) using public transport to get there.

Terry I'm all for progress but progress with consideration. There are loads of other sites around the city centre that would be much more suitable than the Green. I've never complained about public transport my friend. I walk whenever possible and I've never owned a car.

Terry it's not just a question of having some greenery in the city. It's what else that it does. It's part of the city, it's integral. It gives the city some soul, character and charm.

togster · 16-05-2008 10:54AM

.....

togster · 16-05-2008 11:01AM

There will be minimal damage to the park i would imagine. I pressume they will use TBM method to excavate and construct the lining of the tunnel. As such there is no surface obtrusion. They drain the lake to make excavation safer for environmental reasons and for workers. Im just wondering how close to the surface the metro is running in that area. Perhaps there will also be access tunnels in and around that area.

Tunneling in general is a very low impact method of constructing infrastructure in comparison to road and rail. Very little noise and vibration.

funk-you · 16-05-2008 11:21AM

Davidius wrote: »

Good old Dublin, always trying to be like a real city. :pac:

Ah good auld greystone, still being crap:pac:

-Funk

markpb · 16-05-2008 11:26AM

togster wrote: »

There will be minimal damage to the park i would imagine. I pressume they will use TBM method to excavate and construct the lining of the tunnel. As such there is no surface obtrusion. They drain the lake to make excavation safer for environmental reasons and for workers. Im just wondering how close to the surface the metro is running in that area. Perhaps there will also be access tunnels in and around that area.

Unfortunately it's very costly to build stations, especially two stations on two different levels, using TBMs. That's why the north end of the park is being closed, a big section of it will be completely excavated and the two stations (MN and IC) will be built from above and then covered up. The rest of the space is needed to dump all the soil that is excavated.

ArmaniJeanss · 16-05-2008 11:44AM

Heres an early 18th century photo of the Green.
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=80461&postcount=14

So you could argue that the current Green with duckponds and a playground etc is a heinous destruction of what it was originally supposed to look like.

Or you can argue that nothing stays the same and that just because the Green is going to look a bit different in 10 years postMetro isn't a big deal at all.

Peteee · 16-05-2008 11:50AM

Blisterman wrote: »

It's stupid ending a metro line, smack bang in the middle of the city.

Imagine, a transport link terminating in a place people want to go. Whatever will they think of next!

togster · 16-05-2008 11:53AM

markpb wrote: »

Unfortunately it's very costly to build stations, especially two stations on two different levels, using TBMs. That's why the north end of the park is being closed, a big section of it will be completely excavated and the two stations (MN and IC) will be built from above and then covered up. The rest of the space is needed to dump all the soil that is excavated.

Oh that makes sense. So is there any tunnel work planned?

16-05-2008 12:01PM

Terry wrote: »

This is the reason that nothing gets done in this country.
There's always some group of fúckwads complaining that the scenery will be destroyed.
Get the **** over it.
I really am sick to death of all this bitching and moaning, yet the same people will turn around and tell you that this country sucks because of the lack of public transport, and then when the public transport is made available, they won't use it because they feel it's below their social standing.

This happens in every town in the country and it's always the same bunch of arseholes complaining.
Move with the fúcking times.

You want some greenery in your city? The fúcking Phoenix park is the largest urban park in Europe and it's only down the road. Mind you, it may require you (and I'm really sorry about this) using public transport to get there.

I feel like that Oriental bloke in 'Dragon: The Bruce Lee story' who gets up out of his seat and starts clapping furiously after BL's first film is shown. Take a bow.

Terry wrote: »

Tourism.

I, personally, can't understand the "boo-hoo, it's not gonna be the same" brigade. It'll only be a couple of years and then they're gonna restore it. It's not like they're tearing the thing up for good or anything.

So it won't look exactly like it used to. So fucking what. It's still gonna be the same size nd in the same spot, except now it will be accessed more easily.

markpb · 16-05-2008 12:06PM

togster wrote: »

Oh that makes sense. So is there any tunnel work planned?

The rest of it

There's also a turnback loop at the end of the Metro North line, this will be cut using TBM and lies south of the proposed work, roughly under the centre and south ends of the park.

skywalker · 16-05-2008 12:17PM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Can't help but think of the balls they made of Fairview Park with the Port Tunnel construction. So far no attempt seems to have been made to restore they damage the did.

They should have bought up the land where the old Eircom building used to be just down the road there, that would have been a much better site for the station.

Id agree on both points. Stephens green is a landmark. It really shouldnt be interfered with any more than it already has been.

MOH · 16-05-2008 12:26PM

eo980 wrote: »

More importantly however do you not hold anything close to your heart in regards to the city? Do you not think its important to have somewhere to escape the manic nature of the city for a short while, somewhere you can bring someone for a stroll, take the kids etc. Do you not realise the importance of maturity, the beauty of it? You can't just rip the green up and patch it back together when your done, only nature can do that.

There's always the Iveagh Gardens 5 minutes away.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Has it f*ck... sticking some grass down does not equate restoring the damage that was done. No effort at all has been made to make it look the way it originally did.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Can't help but think of the balls they made of Fairview Park with the Port Tunnel construction. So far no attempt seems to have been made to restore they damage the did.

They should have bought up the land where the old Eircom building used to be just down the road there, that would have been a much better site for the station.

We were passing Fairview park last week and the gf remarked on how well it looks. The area they dug up for the port tunnel looks nicer than it did before.
It's been reseeded, they've stuck in a load of new trees, looks very well now.

If you mean put the station on Sth King St where that construction is now going on, you'd have the problem that a) there's was already something planned for there; b) buying the land would probably cost a bomb; and c) you'd have to change the whole alignment of the metro

Tigger · 16-05-2008 12:51PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Heres an early 18th century photo of the Green.
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=80461&postcount=14

So you could argue that the current Green with duckponds and a playground etc is a heinous destruction of what it was originally supposed to look like.

Or you can argue that nothing stays the same and that just because the Green is going to look a bit different in 10 years postMetro isn't a big deal at all.

although thats very interesting it has two problems
1. its not a photo
2. people would drive across it

Blisterman · 16-05-2008 12:52PM

Peteee wrote: »

Imagine, a transport link terminating in a place people want to go. Whatever will they think of next!

The problem with terminating it in a loop under stephen's green, is that it makes it extremely difficult, should they want to expand it south, in the future.

You could quite easily expand the Luas past Sandyford, on the other hand, without having to dig up a large area, all over again.

Kintarō Hattori · 16-05-2008 12:57PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Heres an early 18th century photo of the Green.
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=80461&postcount=14

So you could argue that the current Green with duckponds and a playground etc is a heinous destruction of what it was originally supposed to look like.

I don't think you'll find anyone who would think that what the green has developed into is tragic and hideous in comparison to that sketch you linked to.

The Destruction of St. Stephen's Green

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