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MMA Seminar

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Comments

  • #62
    kray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭kray


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Yes 2 athletes tested there abilitys against each other in about 9 fights!!

    how much money do you think is involved in the local shows?? not enough to warrant testing, maybe JK will say different!


    jeses ur witty aren't u:rolleyes:


    was just asking a question


  • #63
    judomick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭judomick


    kray wrote: »
    jeses ur witty aren't u

    why do people write like this?


  • #64
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    Mairt wrote: »
    He ain't that big.

    No reason to suspect he's juicing just from his size & vascularity.

    I dont know how you can say he's not that big, find me one athlete whos sport demands the same level of cardiovascular fitness as MMA, who is as big if not bigger that Alexander..,. and tell me theyre not juicing..


  • #65
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Chris89 wrote: »
    I dont know how you can say he's not that big, find me one athlete whos sport demands the same level of cardiovascular fitness as MMA, who is as big if not bigger that Alexander..,. and tell me theyre not juicing..

    Does Houston have a high level of cardiovascular fitness?


  • #66
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Yes 2 athletes tested there abilitys against each other in about 9 fights!!

    how much money do you think is involved in the local shows?? not enough to warrant testing, maybe JK will say different!

    Paul, in fairness to Kray after David Jones posted this..
    David Jones wrote: »
    And further to the point, I dont believe every athlete that has stepped in an Irish Cage or Ring show is clean either. I think there is definitely steroid use albeit on a much smaller level. .

    I'm not surprised someone asked that question. I'm only surprised it wasn't asked earlier.

    It was bound to taint someone's view of MMA in Ireland.


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  • #67
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    Fozzy wrote: »
    Does Houston have a high level of cardiovascular fitness?

    Clearly, whether or not his cardio is as good as other fighters in his class is nitpicking.
    Again, saying he is juicing is only an assumption, although it is a much safer assumption than saying he is clean.
    Its not as if the UFC has the best record for testing, which has been highlighted many times in this thread.


  • #68
    Mikel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 863 ✭✭✭Mikel


    According to this, in Nevada the State Comm is responsible for the testing, but the article also mentions 'UFC was nearly banned until they agreed to drug testing'. My point is, had they insisted to the commission that the testing was to be ultra stringent to fend off the problem before it began would the commission have complained. IMO they have done what every other sport (ok the UFC is not a 'sport') has done and buried their head in the sand and denied there is a problem.
    If there are guys in irish gyms using steroids for bb, why can't guys be juicing for mma?

    http://www.buddytv.com/articles/ufc/ufc-fails-to-drug-test-at-ufc-6048.aspx
    UFC fails to drug test at UFC 69 and 70
    Friday, April 27, 2007
    chuck liddellUFC President Dana White is constantly pushing the idea that MMA is a legitimate sport that should be held up alongside boxing and martial arts – but it turns out that at the last couple of UFC events, there was absolutely no drug testing done on any of the fighters.

    Why not? Good question. In Nevada, where the UFC is based, the state commission is in charge of drug testing, and it’s the same in several other states. However, UFC 69 took place in Texas, where drug testing for such events is the job of the sanctioning organizations – meaning in this case that it was left up to the UFC themselves, as there’s no larger “sanctioning body.”


    A Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation spokesman told the Houston Chronicle that they “have the authority to order drug testing, but did not for that event. Our rules didn't anticipate a structure like this.”

    UFC's Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Marc Ratner told the Chronicle that he thought the main event was going to be tested. “I think maybe there was some confusion. Maybe they felt we were the sanctioning body and promoter all in one. When we went in there, we went strictly as the promoter. We can't be judge and jury. We would have no authority to discipline the fighters.”

    And at UFC 70 in England, there was also no drug testing done, though this time for slightly different reasons. While they’d agreed beforehand that they would be overseeing the drug testing this time, the UFC failed to carry it out. "They had no commission there. There was no drug testing there. We were ordering tests, but found we had no legal means to do it," said the UFC’s Ratner.

    Ten years ago mixed martial arts was nearly banned, and was only saved by the UFC’s agreeing to conduct drug testing, among other things. If the UFC hopes to take MMA fighting mainstream, they’d better come up with a way to handle this sort of situation.



    -Mel, BuddyTV Staff Columnist
    Sources: AOL Sports, Houston Chronicle
    Photo credit:


  • #69
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Mikel wrote: »
    According to this, in Nevada the State Comm is responsible for the testing, but the article also mentions 'UFC was nearly banned until they agreed to drug testing'. My point is, had they insisted to the commission that the testing was to be ultra stringent to fend off the problem before it began would the commission have complained. IMO they have done what every other sport (ok the UFC is not a 'sport') has done and buried their head in the sand and denied there is a problem.
    If there are guys in irish gyms using steroids for bb, why can't guys be juicing for mma?

    http://www.buddytv.com/articles/ufc/ufc-fails-to-drug-test-at-ufc-6048.aspx

    Ten years ago the UFC had different owners, so you can't hold that against the current UFC. It seems like they had a big mix up for those two events, but every event since and every event before for a long time had drug testing. They've arranged testing themselves when they've gone to the UK since, and the first time they did that testing they caught and suspended a fighter

    They hold a lot of events in California too, which is supposedly the best drug testing commission in the US. I just don't see how it's fair to suggest that they're trying to duck or deny any problem. They could avoid testing altogether and just not do shows in the US, yet they're now doing testing where they're not required to


  • #70
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Chris89 wrote: »
    Its not as if the UFC has the best record for testing, which has been highlighted many times in this thread.

    What do you mean by that? That a lot of fighters have tested positive? Or that a lot of them look muscular but have never tested positive?


  • #71
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    sorry not the UFC, MMA as a sport, like many professional sports, drug use while not necessarily a problem, is certainly an issue.

    Again, I'll highlight that I am not directly accusing H.A of juicing, I just maintain that its far more liley that he is than isnt imho.


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  • #72
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Personally, I make no assumptions. I've seen guys who are ripped and who I know aren't using steroids, and I've seen guys who look out of shape who do use them. Visual appearance doesn't prove anything to me, up to a point


  • #73
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    Well, you seem to be making the assumption that he is clean, as do a lot of other posters, I am just making the opposite assumption.
    Its only my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, after all, it is only speculation...


  • #74
    Clive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    Fozzy wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that. When you look at all these sports, cycling, baseball, swimming, etc, it's the sports' governing bodies who do the testing. The UFC is tested by the US government

    Just to clarify in most sports it's the national anti-doping agency (Irish Sports Council ADU, Sport UK ADU, ASADA, USADA etc) who "do" the testing (often through contractors).

    The National Governing Bodies facilitate it (as they are obliged to) and apply sanctions in the event of them being necessary.


  • #75
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Clive wrote: »
    Just to clarify in most sports it's the national anti-doping agency (Irish Sports Council ADU, Sport UK ADU, ASADA, USADA etc) who "do" the testing (often through contractors).

    The National Governing Bodies facilitate it (as they are obliged to) and apply sanctions in the event of them being necessary.

    I wasn't too clear on that. As far as I know, the UK and Australian anti-doping agencies (and probably others as well) are government-run. But the USADA is a non-governmental agency. So in the context of US sports, the UFC is getting tested by the US government, which most other sports are not

    Also, in an MMA context, the UFC is getting tested more than MMA organisations in other countries. There's no requirement for testing in Japan or the UK for example


  • #76
    Mikel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 863 ✭✭✭Mikel


    Clive wrote: »
    Just to clarify in most sports it's the national anti-doping agency (Irish Sports Council ADU, Sport UK ADU, ASADA, USADA etc) who "do" the testing (often through contractors).

    The National Governing Bodies facilitate it (as they are obliged to) and apply sanctions in the event of them being necessary.

    I see, does that mean they can't do their own testing too, are there legal issues?
    I would think different sports have different banned substances, so who decides which are banned in each sport? Surely Sport Uk woulnd't have a problem if cage rage for eg lobbied for an ultra strict approach in terms of substances and testing regimens (as long as they were paying for it)
    My point is I doubt UFCs hands are tied in this regard, they could have kept the event clean from the start. Too late now


  • #77
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Mikel wrote: »
    I see, does that mean they can't do their own testing too, are there legal issues?
    I would think different sports have different banned substances, so who decides which are banned in each sport? Surely Sport Uk woulnd't have a problem if cage rage for eg lobbied for an ultra strict approach in terms of substances and testing regimens (as long as they were paying for it)
    My point is I doubt UFCs hands are tied in this regard, they could have kept the event clean from the start. Too late now

    Sport UK (or is it UK Sport?) doesn't have any control over MMA. They deal with Olympic sports and give assistance to non-Olympic sports if asked. As there is no MMA governing body in the UK it probably makes communication less likely. Cage Rage can be as strict or as lenient as they like with testing

    The WADA decides what substances are banned and agencies who sign up to the code set by the WADA have to stick by that code. I don't know if the national agencies can get stricter than the WADA code, but they definitely can't be more lenient


  • #78
    druss666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭druss666


    i was reading a an artical on bj penn talking bout sherk on gear and he said this


    “It does play a huge factor because they’re cheating and they’re getting more training time, and they’re stronger, but I don’t think that they’re just using steroids is the thing,” he said. “They’re probably pulling their blood out of a refrigerator right before the fight, blood doping, doing all these other things.”

    can anyone tell me what this is never heard of this before tought this would be the best place to post it thanks


  • #79
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Blood doping is to do with raising your red blood cell levels. The levels can be raised in blood outside of the body and then injected before the fight/race/whatever it is. It's kept frozen to keep it fresh. If some chemical was used to raise the blood levels then that can be caught in urine tests


  • #80
    conor rowan
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 108 ✭✭conor rowan


    David Jones wrote: »
    . There are plenty of hard working gym rats, I used to be one before JK gave me the whole blue pill / red pill thing.

    JK is dealing?:eek:


    unfortunately its a sad fact that doping and steroid use is endemic in many sports. mainly the pure sports. by pure i mean that the contest is mainly one dimensional who's the fastest,strongest,train the hardest etc eg swimming,cycling,sprinting,weightlifting.as the difference between 1st and second in these sports is minimal.

    havnig friends in the athletics circle, i know for a fact (well anecdotally) many current top atheletes are on the juice. tests are meant to be surpise and sudden, in reality irish atheletes get a phone call 30 mins before hand but other national testing bodies can sometimes give up to 24 hrs warning. many atheltes in training camps are aware of their peers being on the juice but wont whistle blow as theyll be isolated by other athletes and have no training partners.

    i dont think it is as endemic in skill based sports eg soccer,rugby, GAA as victory is not determined by physical prowess alone. but it could well be there. i remember in schools rugby there was always talk of who was and wasnt taking creatine supplements. most people werent and were able to make progress in the gym with just tuna sandwiches but it was still there. i dont think creatine is a banned substance? (someone can correct me on this) but if this is happening as U18 level, surely its a microcosm of what heppens in sport at large.

    the real question is what drives a sportsman to keep training and competing when they know one of the reasons their getting beaten is that the other athletes training regime has been chemically enhanced?
    is this why most are caught at the end of their careers when their hold on the sport is faltering?

    conor
    ps meave i wont be attending


  • #81
    t-ha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭t-ha


    conor rowan wrote: »
    i dont think it is as endemic in skill based sports eg soccer,rugby, GAA as victory is not determined by physical prowess alone. but it could well be there. i remember in schools rugby there was always talk of who was and wasnt taking creatine supplements. most people werent and were able to make progress in the gym with just tuna sandwiches but it was still there. i dont think creatine is a banned substance? (someone can correct me on this) but if this is happening as U18 level, surely its a microcosm of what heppens in sport at large.
    Creatine is legal and its effects in most people are very subtle (i.e. run at full sprint for 17s instead of 15s, slightly less muscle pain after exercise, etc.). It's not going to be the deciding factor in a skill-based sport and it's only thought of as some magical steroid-like compound because of the ramblings of ill-informed scare-mongers. I've had some in my desk for the last 8 months and I haven't used it because I just couldn't be bothered.

    I take your basic point though - it's worrying that people think it does give such a large advantage and seek it out anyway.


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  • #82
    David Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭David Jones


    Before :rolleyes:

    And After :eek:


  • #83
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    David Jones wrote: »
    Before :rolleyes:

    And After :eek:

    He was fighting at 170lbs in the before image


  • #84
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Fozzy wrote: »
    He was fighting at 170lbs in the before image

    a point that could be made in houston's favour, too. he's thickly muscled, but his frame isn't very big for 205. I'd imagine if tito had similar amounts of muscle-mass he'd never dream of making 205!

    Relatively smaller guys fighting in their respective weight class are going to either be (a) fatter (i'm thinking b.j. vs machida here) or (b) more thickly muscled than those that are cutting big just to make the weight. I mean Houston came in at 201 or 202 for the jardine fight if i remember and he took the fight on short notice.

    I honestly don't see why he would be singled out as any more likely to be on steroids than a large percentage of top MMA fighters who look "too good to be true". I should point out right now that this is not to say that they're not all on it, I wouldn't have a clue having never taken part in high level competition of any sort.

    I do however have a friend who used to cycle competitively at a semi-pro level in holland and he was doped up to the gills. As a semi-fecking-pro! So I do hope that MMA isn't quite on that level.


  • #85
    David Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭David Jones


    Weighing in for Franca Fight. 155lb

    Sean%20Sherk%20-%202.jpg


    The After Picture Above is 3 weeks old.

    The Before Pic is indeed at 170lbs and the one here is at 155lb with nandrolone apparently.
    Big Diff in Trap size amongst others.


  • #86
    cowzerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Sherks a juice head no doubt about it. i hate cheats.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • #87
    Judomad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Judomad


    juice heads in MMA should be ashamed of themselves giving themself an unfair advantage, if they're that eager to win why dont they play chess or something where you dont have to be physically superior to your opponent to win....for bodybuilding i dont mind as its not a contact sport, its all about image, but for something where extra strenght and recovery are involved they should be shot...


  • #88
    roo1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 204 ✭✭roo1981


    Looks like Lewis is sticking to his guns anyways...:rolleyes:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/athletics/7381115.stm


  • #89
    druss666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭druss666


    Fozzy wrote: »
    Blood doping is to do with raising your red blood cell levels. The levels can be raised in blood outside of the body and then injected before the fight/race/whatever it is. It's kept frozen to keep it fresh. If some chemical was used to raise the blood levels then that can be caught in urine tests[/QUOTE


    thanks man for clearing that up for me


  • #90
    t-ha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭t-ha


    David Jones wrote: »
    Big Diff in Trap size amongst others.
    I'll be interested to see how high a pace he sets in the octogon & for how many rounds.


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