MMA Seminar

will be great

David Jones wrote: »

Yeah and you get that vascularity and size by maximuscle and pints of milk alone I suppose, c'mon. Just a bigger version of Sherk.

It's definitely not impossible if you've got the right parents. I know some huge guys who are definitely natural and by contrast you can pick out sports people who've actually been tested positive for steroids that are nothing close to that size (Royce Gracie, Cristophe Dugarry, Petr Korda, etc.). Maybe he is juicing but you can't say that for certain just because he decided to pack some meat on himself, and until he fails a drug test I think it's disrespectful to just assume it. I know personally quite a few people who do take steroids that are smaller and weaker than I am even though I've never touched them and, although I tend to take it as a compliment because it generally means I'm in good shape, I've had the vitamin S thing thrown at me several times before.

Ya ye're right, innocent until proven guilty: who needs it. :rolleyes:

David Jones wrote: »

Sorry but you cant retain that amount of muscle mass with the sheer volume of training UFC fighters have to go through and not juice. The guy is 36 years old too, his testosterone levels are already on the downturn naturally..

Although i believe you may be right on the steroid comment, it is possible to maintain this sort of muscle mass if
1, good genetics
2. lots of good food, staying in an anabolic state
3. keeping up weight training

lots more reasons too!!

David Jones wrote: »

Sorry but you cant retain that amount of muscle mass with the sheer volume of training UFC fighters have to go through and not juice. The guy is 36 years old too, his testosterone levels are already on the downturn naturally. If he knows what he is doing it doesnt matter if he is tested, testing is no guarantee of finding a steroid user. Im sure Mark Kerr never tested positive for steroids either but have you seen the smashing machine? Randleman, Coleman, Lesnar? c'mon no one actually believes these guys are clean, they are or were just clever or had clever people advising them.

Fair point about the training volume of UFC fighters, but I still think making the statement that you CANNOT retain that much muscle mass is incorrect.

Here's Alexander under the best possible lighting for showing muscle. Comparing that to people I know I think it can definitely be done. There are those genetic freaks out there + I get the impression that he maybe balances his training too much in the weights room and on the heavy bags and not enough on the mats!
Is this really IMPOSSIBLE to achieve without steroids?

didn't know you were bald, nothingcompares

That’s a nicely unfalsifiable hypothesis you’ve got going there Dave. Of course using this rationale it's impossible for anyone to show that they are not cheating. You can accuse anybody of juicing and when they are not caught just say they have smart people advising them.

I have been back stage and in the warm up areas of more US Pro MMA shows, than anyone on this forum. Im talking King of the Cage, Gladiator Challenge, UFC, Rage in a Cage, Extreme Brawl, Ultimate Athlete to name a few, I have seen people break the governing body rules with regard to steroids. I have been around current fighters early in their career who juiced and are still juicing. Its my honest opinion that most of the fighters in the upper echelons of both PRIDE (now gone) and the UFC have or are juicing during their training regimens. Its up there with Tour De France in that regard. You can be an also ran or you can juice and be a top contender. Thats not taking away from the training and commitment these athletes put in, I just dont believe the vast majority are doing it chemical free. And further to the point, I dont believe every athlete that has stepped in an Irish Cage or Ring show is clean either. I think there is definitely steroid use albeit on a much smaller level. Do I have scientific evidence to back that up, no, because if the Nevada State Athletic Commissions testing proceedures are prehistoric, then ours are in the primordial ooze. What I do have is a degree and post grad in sports science, and a lot of observation time in gyms and shows in the US.

And you know what, Just because you don't get caught, doesn't make you innocent when it comes to cheating in sport.

OK, my main point is that some people look at a guy who isn't built and assume he's clean, and look at a guy who is built and assume he's using. I've no doubt that there is widespread steroid use in MMA, as with pretty much all sports, but I've seen enough guys on steroids and enough natural guys to know that it's not always the ones you think just by looking at them. If it's so widespread then why pick on Houston and not GSP, JZ or any of the multitudes of other fighters that are discussed on these boards all the time?

Agree completely. However that doesn't mean that one can simply label someone a cheater based on your own past experiences of other fighters and on how he looks.

My original comment was vitamin s? :rolleyes:

Speculation using a question mark, not labelling, ie I have my suspicions which Im entitled to.

Aside: apparently the nsac has introduced random testing for mma fighters, Sherk recently came back clean

Testing proceedures often find what they want or are told to find. Are you seriously telling me that Sherks physique is down to the 40 or so vitamins and herbal stuff he takes plus some organic vegetable shopping which was filmed on inside the UFC? C'mon. At least Franca owned up.
In the 1984 LA Olympic games, many US athletes sample A's tested positive, somewhere between one floor of the same testing facility and another, their sample B's went missing. Coincidence?

How did Linford Christie suddenly drastically improve his 100m times after age 30? How come it took years for the British Governing Body to find out about his steroid use? Tests were supposed to be random yet many British Athletes knew in advance who was going to be tested and when and Linford at one stage had up to 10 addresses which made him very hard to track down. Carl Lewis for years the Golden boy of US athletics and one of those most outspoken in condemning Ben Johnson for steroid use was himself guilty as sin of the same crime. In fact the top 4 athletes in that infamous 1988 100m all tested positive for steroids at some point in there career, so are we to assume the guy who came 5th was clean and legitamately won the race? When our own Michelle Smith suddenly started improving her swimming times drastically ie in the space of 2 seasons, and her husband is a dutch man with a history of using steroids was it any surprise to all but the most naiive of people that she was on some performance enhancers?

If it's so widespread then why pick on Houston and not GSP, JZ or any of the multitudes of other fighters that are discussed on these boards all the time?

Its my honest opinion that most of the fighters in the upper echelons of both PRIDE (now gone) and the UFC have or are juicing during their training regimens.

I thought I did that.

Just wondering, if this is the case, can mma not be train without taking steroids, or does that leave you with a disadvantage

Anything can be trained without steroids. Not taking them will only disadvantage you if you are competing against other athletes who are taking them and not being caught.

well said drunkmonkey.