Locked in a celler for 24 years and abused.

Alessandra · 30-04-2008 01:35AM

ModeSkeletor wrote: »

If the daughter doesn't press kidnapping charges (and she's also the legal guardian of the other children anyway) what exactly can he be charged with? ?

Oh I dunno, rape maybe???

tech77 · 30-04-2008 06:22AM

Mind-boggling depravity.
It's impossible to fathom how a father can repeatedly rape his daughter let alone go to elaborate lengths to imprison her for 24 years to do so- and then keep on doing it until she had 7 kids by him.
Also hard to believe how all this went "unnoticed".

What actually drives a "man" to do this though?
As someone else said this was fairly planned and deliberate, not accidental.
I wonder what reason he'd give for causing such a litany of nightmares.
Is it purely down to an uncontrolled sexual urge.
Or is it also about sadism/psychopathy as well.
Or is there other stuff driving it?

He deserves torture and eventual death, nothing less tbh. Showing mercy/empathy would be pointless to something so inhuman.
Understand it as much as possible i suppose, but torture it and kill it (as a possible deterrent to any cnut with similar ideas in future).

As others said though, unfortunately it may only be the tip of the iceberg.

marcsignal · 30-04-2008 06:25AM

Is it just me, or does 'Joseph Fritzl', the Austrian Father in this case, look scarily like 'Enoch Powell', the British Fascist ?? :eek:

SimpleSam06 · 30-04-2008 08:48AM

I think the Austrian state should provide her with massive compensation for failing to pick up on the fact that this was going on, for decades no less, despite investigations into her disappearance. This is nothing less than gross incompetence. Nothing says sorry like a seven figure sum. I also think she should sell her story to the highest bidder, and use the combined funds from the two to live out the remainder of her life as she sees fit, anywhere she likes. If anyone deserves the life of a princess, its this woman.

As for the father, an example should be made of him. There are a variety of choices in this case, only a few of which would be countenanced by a civilised society, so I'll just say bah.

beautiation · 30-04-2008 09:29AM

Does she know about the fall of communism and all that craic? It's a good think Rickrolls are around to give her a familiar reference point as she tries to get the hang of the internet.

The_B_Man · 30-04-2008 10:08AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I think the Austrian state should provide her with massive compensation for failing to pick up on the fact that this was going on, for decades no less, despite investigations into her disappearance. This is nothing less than gross incompetence. Nothing says sorry like a seven figure sum. I also think she should sell her story to the highest bidder, and use the combined funds from the two to live out the remainder of her life as she sees fit, anywhere she likes. If anyone deserves the life of a princess, its this woman.

As for the father, an example should be made of him. There are a variety of choices in this case, only a few of which would be countenanced by a civilised society, so I'll just say bah.

doubtful. They've already come out and said that there was no clerical, adminstrative or procedural errors on the part of the social workers, police, and other authorities. They're not mind readers!

kowloon · 30-04-2008 08:03PM

Given that:

1) The majority of crimes go unsolved and unpunished

2) Criminals who plan things are less likely to be caught than those who work on the spur of the moment

3) Crimes like this require extreme preparation and organisation

I would not be in the least bit surprised if theres a lot more of this going on. Particularly in countries where missing people and missing children go unreported and unnoticed.

palaver · 30-04-2008 10:13PM

According to German/Austrian reports, the whole story unfolds in a more and more sinister way.

First of all, the man-monster is the owner of several houses, quite a rich man, including the house where this horror occurred. He is an electrical engineer who is well capable to create a sophisticated cellar. That’s how he could do as he wanted in the house.

Apparantly he 'created' his children as his servants, like one (legal) son who was supposed to look after his properties but was by education kept in the dark and deliberately stupid - just for that purpose.

His obedient wife was sent away during the summer months to look after a guesthouse cum camping place in a tourist spot where twenty odd years ago the body of a raped girl was discovered. They are investigating his possibile involvement.

About punishment. As far as I read re Austrian law he is going to face at least 25 years in prison, basically life.
Incest, false imprisonment, rape and probably murder re the burned infant come together.

Very disturbing altogether. And the rumours are going high.

Whatever details, if there is hell, I hope this monster will be down the bottom.

sam34 · 30-04-2008 10:20PM

the depths of depravity are just mind-boggling. no punishment severe enough for this monster.

CJay · 30-04-2008 10:42PM

They think he was planning on imprisoning his daughter for a while, it was mentioned that he started on the basement rooms well before he locked her up, but alos he waited til she was legally an adult, filed a missing persons report and then a month later presented a letter to the police supposedly from her saying she didn't want to be found. Legally their hands were tied, she was an adult and if she didn't want to be found she was perfectly entitled.
But, from wha tI heard in different reports the police never bought it, and every time a new baby appeared they'd try digging for evidence so they could break the case.

Seems this monster was sickeningly extremely clever...they could never get what they needed, just live with their suspicions...until she wrote the letter.

What a brave woman that after all those years of captivity she still fought to get free.I think it shows a great strength of mind that might just get her thorugh this.

Also, what I find scary, is that there could be people in Ireland living through this kind of horror.
Who know's what really going on behind closed doors.

I can't see how the wife didn't know...the mind boggles

Pepe LeFrits · 30-04-2008 10:53PM

The_B_Man wrote: »

well hes 73. in 15 years he'll most likely be dead anyway.

Well if he is alive when he gets released he may find it difficult to stay that way, given the horrific nature of his crimes.

Absolutely horrendous stuff. The kind of sustained psychological damage the girl must have suffered is hard to fathom. What shape mentally and physically the kids are in, I can't even guess.

palaver · 30-04-2008 11:33PM

I can only refer to what I've read.
Apparantly the kids from the cellar talk in their own 'grunting' language. Though they try to make an effort to talk properly with outsiders now. The youngest prefers to crawl and clings to his mother.
Dudess mentioned a disturbing book called, ehm, forget it right now, The Flowers of ...? Reminded me, too. Read it when I was very young, despised it, but it still haunts me.
Anyway, it seems that the psychological outlook is rather bland for the kids in the cellar. All your life confined, and not a clou about the world?
Jayze, I don't want to know what else was going on, will go on and will never end.
There is no such thing as a normal life after such an ordeal.

kowloon · 30-04-2008 11:47PM

Theres a stage of development after which it becomes increasingly difficult to adapt to major life changes and learn to speak properly, 'twas young enough, can't remember it off the top of my head.

SimpleSam06 · 01-05-2008 08:43AM

The_B_Man wrote: »

doubtful. They've already come out and said that there was no clerical, adminstrative or procedural errors on the part of the social workers, police, and other authorities.

Heh. What would you say if you were potentially liable for a monstrosity like this? I say sue them anyway, if she ends up with a percentage of the gdp in her pocket they'll be more thorough next time.

bonkey · 01-05-2008 08:56AM

Poblachtach wrote: »

Imagine he died while the captives where inside. Only he knew the code.

They're currently investigating whether or not his son was also involved. There's reason to suspect he also had the code...not least of which was the fact that someone had to feed the captives while the father was on his annual holidays in Thailand.

Remember that other girl also from austria I think, a few months ago?

Natascha Kampusch. Inspirational woman. Apparently, she's offered her services to help with counselling in this case.

Overheal · 01-05-2008 09:03AM

Stark wrote: »

Not necessarily. In 15 years he'll be 88 and plenty of people live to be over 100 these days.

yea but with what medicare?

If i were his physician he'd find a few surprises in his IV.

bonkey · 01-05-2008 09:06AM

I find it slightly disturbing how many posters here seem to be saying:

Look how horrible that man was. Lets think up something truly horrible to do to him, to show that society doesn't accept such horrible things.

I say treat him as the law demands. No more, no less. Show that he truly is aberrant, and not just someone who's level we're quite willing to lower ourselves to given an excuse.

SimpleSam06 · 01-05-2008 09:26AM

bonkey wrote: »

I say treat him as the law demands. No more, no less. Show that he truly is aberrant, and not just someone who's level we're quite willing to lower ourselves to given an excuse.

I don't think the law was written with this level of deviancy in mind. If such crimes were more common, you can bet your ass harsher laws would be in place. Until such time, orf wiv his extremeties!

copeyhagen · 01-05-2008 09:43AM

cut his nuts off and let him bleed to death, or feed him to hungry pigs!

latenia · 01-05-2008 09:53AM

Burn his balls off with sulphuric acid then feed them to pigs and make him watch then make him eat them when they've crapped them out again.

bonkey · 01-05-2008 09:58AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I don't think the law was written with this level of deviancy in mind.

Then treat him as the law demands, and then look to change the law if you feel its necessary.

Its worth noting that hte man in question has "defended" his actions by saying he locked his initially locked daugher up to save her from drugs.

In other words, he claims to have seen a level of deviancy that he felt needed exceptional measures.

Sound familiar?

Insect Overlord · 01-05-2008 10:12AM

bonkey wrote: »

Then treat him as the law demands, and then look to change the law if you feel its necessary.

Its worth noting that hte man in question has "defended" his actions by saying he locked his initially locked daugher up to save her from drugs.

In other words, he claims to have seen a level of deviancy that he felt needed exceptional measures.

Sound familiar?

That is the most ridiculous defense I've ever heard. Seriously, 24 years of rape and false imprisonment does not equate to good parenting. How could anyone say they'd rather go through that than drug experimentation?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 01-05-2008 10:14AM

congratulations on completely missing the point.

you win a gold star.

Insect Overlord · 01-05-2008 10:23AM

Mordeth wrote: »

congratulations on completely missing the point.

you win a gold star.

I got the point, ie the law has to be applied as it is and can be ammended later so as to deter future misdemeanours of this ilk. I understand that there's human rights statutes and whatnot preventing this guy from being brutalised by the pitchfork-and-torch-wielding mob.

But this Austrian guy trying to defend his actions as some sort of noble intervention is just plain wrong, even more so if he really believes that to be the case.

I will, however, keep the gold star!

bonkey · 01-05-2008 10:35AM

An Fhile wrote: »

But this Austrian guy trying to defend his actions as some sort of noble intervention is just plain wrong, even more so if he really believes that to be the case.

Bit like SimpleSam06 suggesting that we redefine the law to treat horrible people horrible is, presumably seen - by SimpleSam06 at least - as the same type of noble (or justifiied) intervention, perhaps?

Or was that the point you missed?

Insect Overlord · 01-05-2008 10:58AM

bonkey wrote: »

Bit like SimpleSam06 suggesting that we redefine the law to treat horrible people horrible is, presumably seen - by SimpleSam06 at least - as the same type of noble (or justifiied) intervention, perhaps?

Or was that the point you missed?

Ah right, yeah, I think I get you now. As in, a knee-jerk reaction to this case would almost parallel this criminal's reaction to drugs in society.

I don't fully disagree with the theory though. Obviously this is a special case (I really, really hope there's none like it in the world

) As such it should warrant special treatment imho. Not necessarily torture or public execution, but some form of punishment that makes it stand out.

There's problems with that on a number of levels, I know. Wasn't there a famous case of an assassin who killed a celebrity just for the fame and noteriety? Obviously nobody wants to encourage similar cases of reputation-forming/history-making crimes.
And one wouldn't want to offend the human rights groups either, in terms of inhumane punishments.

Tbh I really don't know what can be done about it.

SimpleSam06 · 01-05-2008 11:12AM

bonkey wrote: »

Its worth noting that hte man in question has "defended" his actions by saying he locked his initially locked daugher up to save her from drugs.

In other words, he claims to have seen a level of deviancy that he felt needed exceptional measures.

Erm you don't think he was talking shite when he said that? I mean its not like he would lie. :rolleyes: In any case to achieve an equivalent level of overreaction you'd need to carpet bomb his neighbourhood as punishment.

bonkey · 01-05-2008 11:27AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Erm you don't think he was talking shite when he said that?

From what I've seen reported, I think he's a warped individual with a warped way of looking at the world.

I fully believe he is being honest when he says (as he has) that he is unrepentant as he believes he did nothing wrong.

I mean its not like he would lie. :rolleyes:

Then he's a p1ss-poor liar, given - as I've just mentioned - that he maintains his actions were just and correct and that he is unrepentant.

bonkey · 01-05-2008 11:31AM

An Fhile wrote: »

Ah right, yeah, I think I get you now. As in, a knee-jerk reaction to this case would almost parallel this criminal's reaction to drugs in society.

I don't fully disagree with the theory though. Obviously this is a special case (I really, really hope there's none like it in the world ) As such it should warrant special treatment imho. Not necessarily torture or public execution, but some form of punishment that makes it stand out.

I'd fully advocate laws that are toughter on cases like this...just not laws that are themselves cruel in some sort of warped "retribution as justice" way.

Agamemnon · 01-05-2008 11:41AM

He should be locked up for the rest of his life at the very least. Hopefully he'll be killed in prison though.

Locked in a celler for 24 years and abused.

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