Sophie Lancaster's Killers Get LIFE !

Lockstep · 29-04-2008 09:57PM

Meh, this is a horribly sad case, reminds me of the Brian Deneke case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Deneke) although I'm a bit fed up of having to keep on reading about goths/rockers/alternatives writing in to magazines saying they are victimised purely for being different.

Gordon · 29-04-2008 09:58PM

Keano A Legend wrote: »

30 years

The scumbags can look forward to arts and crafts at weekends :mad:

Young Offenders

BBC wrote:

At Preston Crown Court on Monday Harris was told he must serve a minimum of 18 years and Herbert 16 years.

Brothers Joseph, 17, and Danny Hulme, 16, both of Landgate, Whitworth, near Bacup, and Daniel Mallett, 17, of Rockcliffe Drive, Bacup, all pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm with intent on Mr Maltby.

Mallett was sentenced to four years and four months and the Hulme brothers for five years and 10 months each.

Brendan Harris had denied murder, but was convicted last month, while Ryan Herbert pleaded guilty before the trial started.

18 years and 16 years for them.

BeerWolf · 29-04-2008 10:51PM

Bastards ought to be hanged, save tax payer's money to have better uses elsewhere rather than keeping them alive for life...

orestes wrote: »

Good stuff, animals like them should never be released

Humans are the only creatures capable of being evil.

gidget · 29-04-2008 11:43PM

What angered me a lot about this case, was when it was mentioned that the judge commented at the case how the scumbags parents were all laughing and joking around throughout the trial and the Detective even remarked how one of the guy's mothers was messing about with her son when he was getting questioned about the the incident in the police station.

These guys don't give a damn about what they've done - 5, 6, 15 and 16 years from now, they will all be free men with their whole lives ahead of them in their mid 30's and are going to walk out those prison gates without a care in the world :mad:

marcsignal · 29-04-2008 11:45PM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

although I'm a bit fed up of having to keep on reading about goths/rockers/alternatives writing in to magazines saying they are victimised purely for being different.

Em? I must say, I’m not quite sure what you mean there kickoutthejams tbh? Might that be the case because it’s probably true? If I’m honest I’d guess it is true. Think what you will about Goths/Alternatives/Rockers but they’re not exactly renowned for their violent Anti Social behaviour.

I personally drank around Dublin in the Goth/Alternative/Rocker scene between 1984-96, and during that time there were only 3 pubs in the city that we could get into, Bruxelles (still there), The William Tell (now the Hairy Lemon) and Bartley Dunnes (demolished to build Break for the Border). The reason being, we were perceived as weirdoes, and not allowed into other pubs, because of the clothes, piercings, and hairstyles.

In the case of each of the pubs above, there was only 1 or possibly 2 doormen at weekends, because ‘in your face security’ was unnecessary. There was very rarely ever any trouble, and if there was, it was a few thumps, and it was over. I never ever saw anyone stomping on someone’s head. I never even witnessed the ‘Scum Punks’ on Stephens Green doing anything like that in their Heyday.

The only Club open to us was a Goth/Alternative club, in a place called ‘The Olympic Ballroom’ on Pleasants St (around the corner from Whelans). It ran from Jan 1989 to 1992. The amount of rows I saw there, I could count on one hand. There wasn’t one single complaint from the local residents, no noise outside, and no damage to property.

In 1992 the Olympic Ballroom closed as a Goth Club, because of falling numbers, and reopened a while later as a Rave. It attracted an Army of Track Suited Lowlife, and it was consequently closed within 18 months (roughly) because of continuous complaints from local residents, over Anti Social Behaviour, Damage to Cars, Agro etc, and of course, it was eventually raided by the Guards for Class A drug use.

Now of course I accept it’s unfair to label all Ravers as Anti Social, but I can say, without fear of contradiction, that 95% of the Chavs I’ve ever met in my life, were ‘Slack Jawed Troglodytes’ who dropped out of school at 15 because ‘They weren’t gonna let some c*nt of a teacher tell them what to do’ and they carried that attitude forward with them through the rest of their miserable pathetic lives. They despise those of us that are educated, and hate even more, those of us that express their individuality by dressing like a ‘Bleedin Quaer’

Rant Over

(nothing personal kickoutthejams, but this whole case has made me sick to the stomach with Chav Scumbaggery)

Lockstep · 30-04-2008 12:08AM

marcsignal wrote: »

Em? I must say, I’m not quite sure what you mean there kickoutthejams tbh? Might that be the case because it’s probably true? If I’m honest I’d guess it is true. Think what you will about Goths/Alternatives/Rockers but they’re not exactly renowned for their violent Anti Social behaviour.

I personally drank around Dublin in the Goth/Alternative/Rocker scene between 1984-96, and during that time there were only 3 pubs in the city that we could get into, Bruxelles (still there), The William Tell (now the Hairy Lemon) and Bartley Dunnes (demolished to build Break for the Border). The reason being, we were perceived as weirdoes, and not allowed into other pubs, because of the clothes, piercings, and hairstyles.

In the case of each of the pubs above, there was only 1 or possibly 2 doormen at weekends, because ‘in your face security’ was unnecessary. There was very rarely ever any trouble, and if there was, it was a few thumps, and it was over. I never ever saw anyone stomping on someone’s head. I never even witnessed the ‘Scum Punks’ on Stephens Green doing anything like that in their Heyday.

The only Club open to us was a Goth/Alternative club, in a place called ‘The Olympic Ballroom’ on Pleasants St (around the corner from Whelans). It ran from Jan 1989 to 1992. The amount of rows I saw there, I could count on one hand. There wasn’t one single complaint from the local residents, no noise outside, and no damage to property.

In 1992 the Olympic Ballroom closed as a Goth Club, because of falling numbers, and reopened a while later as a Rave. It attracted an Army of Track Suited Lowlife, and it was consequently closed within 18 months (roughly) because of continuous complaints from local residents, over Anti Social Behaviour, Damage to Cars, Agro etc, and of course, it was eventually raided by the Guards for Class A drug use.

Meh, doormen can be like that to be honest. They refuse so many people entry unless they're in a suit or what have you.
You can't really go around wearing a big green feck off mohawk and expect people to treat you nicely. Sad fact but people do make judgements on you

marcsignal wrote: »

Now of course I accept it’s unfair to label all Ravers as Anti Social, but I can say, without fear of contradiction, that 95% of the Chavs I’ve ever met in my life, were ‘Slack Jawed Troglodytes’ who dropped out of school at 15 because ‘They weren’t gonna let some c*nt of a teacher tell them what to do’ and they carry that attitude forward with them through the rest of their miserable pathetic lives. They despise those of us that are educated, and hate even more, those of us that express their individuality by dressing like a ‘Bleedin Quaer’
Rant Over
(nothing personal kickoutthejams, but this whole case has made me sick to the stomach with Chav Scumbaggery)

Sorry mate, I'm not buying the idea that being different is the automatic reason for chavs picking on alternatives. I got stick myself when I was around 13 and thought it was purely as I was a punk kid, it wasn't, it was because I didn;t stand up for myself. I did and things were then grand, funnily enough when I was 15 and in the phase where I wore eyeliner (...) I was friendly with a few chavs (certainly not a lot, and most were acquintances who I would just pass the time of day with) but there were still the odd few who I would go have a drink with or see a film with.

I also disagree with the idea that they hate people who express their individuality, I knew goth kids who were the goth kids in south park (cookie cutter goth kids) they got pushed around by the chavs and they certainly weren't expressing their individuality.Likewise, chav kids pick on one another.

I also disagree with the idea that they hate those who are educated. Some kids in my school were very smart and did well, they were also chavs.

Finally I knew many goth kids who dropped out of school as ‘They weren’t gonna let some c*nt of a teacher tell them what to do’. Being a chav isn;t an predicate for being thick or dropping out of school.

marcsignal · 30-04-2008 01:34AM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Meh, doormen can be like that to be honest. They refuse so many people entry unless they're in a suit or what have you.
You can't really go around wearing a big green feck off mohawk and expect people to treat you nicely. Sad fact but people do make judgements on you.

No, you misunderstand me here. There were no doormen on pubs generally back then, you simply walked into a pub, and were refused service by the barman if you were a Goth etc.
There were doormen in the pubs we drank in because ‘certain individual’ Punks and Skinheads were barred, and kept out, because they had a rep for fighting. They were also subtly ‘boxed off’ by the rest of the sub-cultural community in most cases, instead of being admired.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Sorry mate, I'm not buying the idea that being different is the automatic reason for chavs picking on alternatives. .

Possibly, but I’d argue that Chavs are aware that Goths generally do not have a predisposition to violence, and are for that reason, seen as an easy target.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I got stick myself when I was around 13 and thought it was purely as I was a punk kid, it wasn't, it was because I didn;t stand up for myself. I did and things were then grand

I’d agree that’s a reasonable rule of thumb, but what about the 2 Polish lads that stood up for themselves ?? They’re both pushing up the dasies back in Poland now for their trouble. I’m not suggesting we should all be ‘Shrieking Violets’ in the face of adversity, but most civilized people just want to get on with their lives, and mind their own business, and not hassle, or be hassled by anyone.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I was friendly with a few chavs (certainly not a lot, and most were acquintances who I would just pass the time of day with) but there were still the odd few who I would go have a drink with or see a film with.

Yeah, I’ve been there too. I went into the Military after school because there was no work in the 80’s and met plenty of the 80’s equivalent of Chavs there. When you’re all wearing the same uniform you don’t judge each other, so it wasn’t an issue, having said that, knowing what I knew about them, I’m glad I never got on the wrong side of them in a social scenario, before I knew them through the Army.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I also disagree with the idea that they hate people who express their individuality, I knew goth kids who were the goth kids in south park (cookie cutter goth kids) they got pushed around by the chavs and they certainly weren't expressing their individuality.Likewise, chav kids pick on one another.

I’m in my 40’s now so I can’t say I know what ‘cookie cutter goth kids’ are, but in my experience, Goth kids are (or were in my day) generally student types from an upper/middle class background, who didn’t have a predisposition to violence, but maybe things have changed ?

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I also disagree with the idea that they hate those who are educated. Some kids in my school were very smart and did well, they were also chavs.

Most (you’ll note I did say 95% and not 100%) of the Chavs I’ve ever met were scumbags, but in fairness, I didn’t hang out with Chavs as a rule, so granted, maybe I was just unlucky enough to only meet the scum that floats to the top of the gene pool. The other 5% were ok.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Finally I knew many goth kids who dropped out of school as ‘They weren’t gonna let some c*nt of a teacher tell them what to do’. Being a chav isn;t an predicate for being thick or dropping out of school.

C’mon of course there are Goths/Punks/Alternative heads etc that drop out of school, even in my scene years ago there were blokes I knew who were f*cking wasters, but just have a gander at some of the Past threads in AH relating to Anti-Social behaviour now, and count the amount of times the word Chav is mentioned as opposed to Goth, Punk, or Skinhead.

Yeah, I guess ‘being’ a Chav isn’t isn’t a predicate for being thick, but there is something disturbing about High Fiving your mates when the Police are dragging you in for questioning over a double murder IMO. It’s as if that kind of thing is a sub-cultural badge of honour for the worst of them.

orestes · 30-04-2008 02:06AM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Meh, this is a horribly sad case, reminds me of the Brian Deneke case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Deneke) although I'm a bit fed up of having to keep on reading about goths/rockers/alternatives writing in to magazines saying they are victimised purely for being different.

Like marcsignal said, it's because they are victimised.

I'm not a goth, but I wear a leather trench-coat, wear black a lot of the time and have long hair. I don't wear make-up, my hair isn't dyed or in any special style or anything, I just haven't had it cut in a few years.

I can't walk down a street for more than 5 minutes without getting someone yelling something at me (ranging from neo/matrix kinda stuff, to the usual rocker freak stuff, to some very threatening abusive stuff and often threats of violence). This isn't just an occasional thing, it's an everyday occurance, literally. I have also been spat on and had things thrown at me out of passing cars (loose change, beer cans, crap like that), and my girlfriend once got hit in the head with a half full can of beer thrown out of a passing car while we were walking around minding our own business.

I've also been physically assaulted a few times by bunches of chavs/skangers, ranging from a bit of being pushed around to one or two pretty heavy hidings. I never started any of them, and when I just said nothing I was shoved about until they got bored, and when I tried to stand up for myself I got a kicking.

There are a lot of bars and nightclubs in Dublin who have refused me admission based solely on my appearance as far as I'm concerned. They are usually places I would not have any interest in going to, but on college nights out or when I'm out with "normal" friends it is a bit of a pain in the arse when everyone else gets in and I get turned away with no explanation. There are also plenty of other bars and nightclubs that I would not dream of even trying to go into because I know for a fact I would get the living sh!t knocked out of me. I also regularly see chavs in rock bars giving people hassle and trying to start fights (Fibbers is becoming a pain in the arse for this lately).

As for the whole chav/goth thing, I simply disagree with you. I'm from Tallaght, so trust me, I have first hand experience of it, cos all of the stuff above (the abuse, threats and occasional beating) happens to me on a day by day basis, is all done by chavs.

JavaBear · 30-04-2008 03:19AM

^ just don't wear the leather coat. they look stupid anyway

Dyr · 30-04-2008 11:08AM

JavaBear wrote: »

^ just don't wear the leather coat. they look stupid anyway

QFT, specially the ankle length ones

Irishcrx · 30-04-2008 01:55PM

Capital punishment for people and cases like this...off to the gallows and hang the *****, they have no respect for other peoples lives so why have any for theirs.

Splinter · 30-04-2008 02:42PM

JavaBear wrote: »

^ just don't wear the leather coat. they look stupid anyway

thats hardly useful now is it?

i dont wear a trench but due to having long hair I've gotten abuse due to it? should i stop wearing what i do, cut my hair, wear a tracksuit and all will be ok?

Edit:
a friend of mine from manchester grew up with Sophie and i know for one he will be glad some justice has been done even if it isnt enough, its better than nothing

JavaBear · 30-04-2008 02:46PM

Take it to PI if you want loved up responses.

marcsignal · 30-04-2008 06:52PM

JavaBear wrote: »

^ just don't wear the leather coat. they look stupid anyway

Yeah right, and I guess all non-white immigrants could have surgery like Michael Jackson, thus avoiding racial abuse/attacks ?? and maybe all eastern European immigrants could just avoid speaking in public at all, for the same reason ??
Yeah ?? Great idea !! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I mean, God forbid anyone would discomode narrow minded scumbags....

orestes · 30-04-2008 07:10PM

JavaBear wrote: »

^ just don't wear the leather coat. they look stupid anyway

Good idea. While I'm at it I'll cut my hair and start wearing tracksuits.

What a perfect solution, if everyone dressed like skangers then they will stop abusing and hassling people. Problem solved

Sophie Lancaster's Killers Get LIFE !

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