Civil Servants

caoibhin wrote: »

Okey Dokey.
I'm going to get this off my chest.
In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
Lazy
Borderline incompetent.
Clock Watchers.
Full of a self-entitlement.

I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

I've worked in the public sector and the private sector, both had their share of hard workers, lazy bams and incompetents. I tend to find those that come out with rubbish like this have not worked in the public sector.

jonny24ie wrote: »

A CO's start off salary is 22,609 a year.

Thats 434.79 a week before tax. The average you posted is nearly double that!!

So you went from 22k per year to 36k per year in 7 years, a growth of 2k per year? It was probably more since just-in-the-door salaries seven years ago were likely lower; still it represents a 10% wage rise in your first year.

You have my sympathies. :rolleyes:

On the plus side, according to the papers, Cowen isn't taking any crap this time round. Looks like the free ride is over.

jonny24ie wrote: »

As I said earlier the higher ups earn top money but the lower downs do most of the work for the little they get!!

Which is flatly denied by the report I linked to, weighed against which we have your little anecdote. Like for like, the public sector earns far more than than private sector employees, and in addition have jobs for life and sweet pension plans.

You being a union rep, I wouldn't expect anything less than die hard toeing of the party line, so that will about do it I guess.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Which is flatly denied by the report I linked to, weighed against which we have your little anecdote. Like for like, the public sector earns far more than than private sector employees, and in addition have jobs for life and sweet pension plans.

You being a union rep, I wouldn't expect anything less than die hard toeing of the party line, so that will about do it I guess.

Utter rubbish, about 25% of civil servants usually earn a wage that qualifies them for state benefits, the average civil service pension is a wonderful index linked €10k a year.

Nightwish wrote: »

A

And just an aside, I earn 25k working for the HSE. I dont understand where people get the idea that we're paid well

People dont, the public opinion is however of the opinion there are too many non essential staff in the HSE and that it leaks money.

Example #435554. a friend who is a student works as a part time A&E receptionist type person.

she is 21 and earns in and around 700-1000 euro a month (i know this as she is paid once a month and is rather glleful when it comes about)

the kicker? she is only called in when needed and works on average 10 days a month (and does **** all when on the job as she admits herself)

is it a coincidence that both her parents work in the same hospital in similar type jobs, higher up, obviously.

I wish i had her job.

invincibleirish wrote: »

People dont, the public opinion is however of the opinion there are too many non essential staff in the HSE and that it leaks money.

Example #435554. a friend who is a student works as a part time A&E receptionist type person.

she is 21 and earns in and around 700-1000 euro a month (i know this as she is paid once a month and is rather glleful when it comes about)

the kicker? she is only called in when needed and works on average 10 days a month (and does **** all when on the job as she admits herself)

is it a coincidence that both her parents work in the same hospital in similar type jobs, higher up, obviously.

I wish i had her job.

There are approx 600 staff at Grade VIII level, which is more than there were under the old Health Board system, which is ridiculous. The system is management top heavy. In the region where I work I could name at least 20 Grade VIII's who do sweet fu<k all. Their positions were eliminated when the HSE came into effect, so they were given a fancy title but dont really seem to do a whole lot.

I live with a girl who works in A&E as a receptionist. She seems to work very little but she's on a 7 week rota which involves a mix of 9-5 work, 12 hour shifts and night shifts. To us it appears she's never in work but in fact over the 7 week period it works out on average a 35 hour week. A&E admin staff, due to shiftwork get night shift allowances which is why they bring in a lot more than the rest of the clerical grades.

Both my parents work in the HSE too, but I can assure you I got in on my own merits. I dont recall either of my parents doing the interview for me. I do know of people in the past (as in 10+ years ago) who were just given jobs by parents, family friends or the odd politician who sat on the health board. It was that type of behaviour which allowed incompetent idiots into the system (not that interviewing is a failsafe measure against it either).

is there a difference between working FOR the civil service and being a civil servant?? im stupid i havent a clue.. i worked up until last year for 5 years for a certain government financial institute based in sandyford that manufactured currency(yes the mint) as a maintenance spark. i never quite knew then and still dont know now. was i a civil servant or did i work for the civil service, or is there a difference?? my pay cheque used to have the whole harp/new fangled stupid weird gold globe thing ye can see on dame st.
so was i one of them??

Sorry folks, my work in the private sector means I can't be sitting around all day posting on bulletin boards like public sector types.

Just a quick response to the lot of you, prove the report wrong, not with your own personal experiences, but with actual statistics. Bitching about 22k starting salaries isn't a selling point, by the way.

You won't be able to of course, since the only thing many public servants are remotely capable of doing properly is complaining to the union, so this thread is filled with fail.

And when you are through with a lifetime of whining, complaining, passive aggression, and settling into being a burden on the nation for as long as the health services that you helped warp can keep you clinging to whatever value once was in your lives, think back to this thread, and compare and contrast the taste of fail to most of your life.

I don't think you'll find much of a difference.

Edit: Note that this does not apply to all public sector workers, in case anyone thought it did. There are many invaluable and hard working people in government employ. As for the rest, you know who I'm talking about.

branners69 wrote: »

How come your posts yesterday were at 9.13 and 9.43?? What sort of cushie private sector job do you have that you a) either start work after 9.43am because obviously you would not be posting during your work hours!! b) you were on a day off, so obviously your not as important as you think you are to the private sector!! c) you are contradicting the above and are "sitting around all day posting on bulletin boards"...

I own several businesses and have the good sense to delegate responsibility to the capable people I employ to manage them. Thanks for trying though.

bug wrote: »

It's possibly contagious.

If you are a hard enthusiastic dilligent worker in the civil service, you will suddenly realise that ...
(a)the structures are totally prohibitive in allowing you to do your job.
(b) you can scream and shout all you want and nothing will change.
(c) you will wear etc...

Well what you described is no different from the private sector is what I have experienced. I have worked with new private companies, old private companies, state agencies and semi state. A good friend of mine has worked for a new state body too.

Anybody who stays in an organisation for too long becomes complacent and generally ineffective no matter what the industry and who they work for. This generally means that state bodies have people who don't work very hard as most are full of people who have been there a long time.
State related agencies have management that are affiliated with some political party or other association. This doesn't mean all management but enough to mean certain people rise through the ranks quicker than others. Not much different from friends getting friends jobs but there is a closer to corruption when it isn't a friend and somebody you don't know suggests you give the person the job:o I know one agency has a lot of ex army people there and there is nothing military like about the job.
Most people think their management are idiots mostly because they have never done the job. Decisions generally come down to the lesser of two evils but people don't like to look at the reality of this.
Older organisations state or private often have very protectionist work practices which limit organisational changes. Which basically means the workers stop change. Somebody new comes in and they try to change everything which is basically a waste of time because you need to change the people on the floor first and then get the management to agree or reverse. This is institutional organisations for you, I have watched new companies start out and decide a new way of doing things but they all change and don't keep anything new.

In state bodies' benefits are better plain and simple. These benefits are also widely abused. For example
1) Flexitime
2) Holidays
3) Study leave
4) Study allowances
5) Break times
6) Sick days

Things I have seen in state bodies
1) Clocking in for people
2) Clocking in dropping kids to school then coming in, collecting kids dropping them home coming in and then clocking out and going home
3) Movie days (Conference equipment used to watch a rental DVD)
4) Running a private business from the office
5) Taking a course more than once due to non completion of required work without penalty
6) Warnings that a person would not be in the next day as they would be "sick" (in another country on holiday)
7) Hour long breakfast breaks
8) Sitting doing nothing for months

snorlax wrote: »

now you know one.. I am a therapist...I had one that only ran for 3 months when I started work there but Im there over 8 months now and no written contract..same for some of my peers working up in Tallaght they got intial contracts for a few months and haven't got an extended contract. The only safe people are those that are there donkeys years (permanent staff)..one's just gone on maternity leave on doesn't know if the HSE will let her back...

Permanent staff by virtue of being permanent have job security. A permanent memeber of staff by law cannot be discriminated against by going on mat leave so the HSE would leave themselves wide open to all sorts of trouble if they didnt allow her back. However if this person is temporary (especially if on a specified purpose contract) the HSE may not allow them back. I've seen this happen in the HSE area where I work.

I'm not in the Dublin area so I havent come across any non contracted temp therapists. I would advise you to contact your local personnel dept asap to have your contract renewed.