Civil Servants

Caoimhín

Okey Dokey.
I'm going to get this off my chest.
In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
Lazy
Borderline incompetent.
Clock Watchers.
Full of a self-entitlement.

I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

Unaton

Ow thanks :rolleyes:

Sherifu

Well they pretty much can't get fired. Why would they work hard?

Keano

Sherifu wrote: »

Well they pretty much can't get fired. Why would they work hard?

I'd have to agree with this ^^

To get into a Civil Service job takes its time but once your in, your in for life!

Kimbot

caoibhin wrote: »

Okey Dokey.
I'm going to get this off my chest.
In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
Lazy
Borderline incompetent.
Clock Watchers.
Full of a self-entitlement.

I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

I wouldn't say its 9 out of 10 I would imagine at best its 50/50.

I work in the service and work my a$$ off.

Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?

Wibbs

Maybe they're just sending you the gobshítes for training...:D Seriously though I take you point. In my dealings I wouldn't say 9 outa 10, but I would say I'm shocked how half of these amadans can dress themselves. Idiot sons of idiot sons.

Kimbot

Keano A Legend wrote: »

I'd have to agree with this ^^

To get into a Civil Service job takes its time but once your in, your in for life!

Not anymore, slackers are all going to get the sack and I have known a good few in the last while that got the sack aswell.

Keano

These slackers weren't spending their days browsing boards by any chance?!!

Kimbot

Keano A Legend wrote: »

These slackers weren't spending their days browsing boards by any chance?!!

Nope.... but the net is a big thing these says, spend too long on it and there will be repercussions.
I very rarely get the chance to look at Boards when I'm in work anymore.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

caoibhin wrote: »

Okey Dokey.
I'm going to get this off my chest.
In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
Lazy
Borderline incompetent.
Clock Watchers.
Full of a self-entitlement.

I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

As opposed to all us boardsies who are

Dynamic
Occupational genii (Watever the plural of genius is)
Never once sey an eye on a clock - we're far too busy and entertained
Have compelte compassions for everyone else both in and out of the office.

If the opportuinities presents itself, grab with both hands I say!

p.

SimpleSam06

jonny24ie wrote: »

Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?

The public sector pay has far exceeded the private sector for almost ten years now, despite (removed) elements of the benchmarking report finding that at the time public sector pay was in line with private sector. The benchmarking report also completely failed to account for gold plated non contributory pensions, which added some 30% onto the pay of public sector employees.

Of course try to reduce pay and they will bring the country to its knees with strikes.

I'm not painting with a broad brush all public sector workers, there are many, many conscientious and good individuals in the sector, who do a good job and work hard, but there are also many who do not, and have no need to do so, since they can't be fired.

Reku

With many relatives in the civil and public service I'm afraid I can only confirm that the majority of the civil and public service are lazy feckless wasters. I've heard everything from complaints lodged against managers for expecting staff staff to work the hours in their job description to trashing office equipment out of boredom, neither resulted in a sacking.:(

Rob_l

Damn their black hearts to hell I say

All lazy people will be shot when the revolution comes. A list of those who post on after hours during a working day will of course be handed to the executioners as a first priority.

Decuc500

I'm a civil servant and sure I've known a few wasters in my time but you get them in all types of jobs. Most of the people I work with are hard working and dedicated and do what's asked of them and more.

I had the unfortunate experience of working in a dole office for a few years and after being insulted and spoken down to on a daily basis by members of the public I can see how some civil servants might get disillusioned with the job.

It's plain to see from the ignorance of some of the comments above though that people are inclined to believe a cliche and tar all of us with the same brush.

Reku

Rob_l wrote: »

Damn their black hearts to hell I say

Careful the PC brigade will insist you were being racist.:rolleyes::p

CountingCrows

caoibhin wrote: »

Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

Its definitely contagious, friend of mine started working there many moons ago. I remember him giving out about the "bums" wearing tracksuits to work while he was in his shirt & trousers, guess what he wear to work now :rolleyes:

Keano

CountingCrows wrote: »

Its definitely contagious, friend of mine started working there many moons ago. I remember him giving out about the "bums" wearing tracksuits to work while he was in his shirt & trousers, guess what he wear to work now :rolleyes:

A shirt and tracksuit = skanger :rolleyes:

BrianD3

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The benchmarking report also completely failed to account for gold plated non contributory pensions, which added some 30% onto the pay of public sector employees.

Public sector pensions are contributory. Public servants pay a nice whack of their salary into superannuation. Some of what is written in newspapers about "gold plated" public sector pensions is actually wrong with wrong calculations. Recent public servants (who pay full PRSI) do not get the normal contributory pension in addition to their public sector pension. A private sector worker who takes out his own pension and pays PRSI gets two pensions.

soozb82

How random I found this! I had an assessment centre (for the NI civil service) yesterday, and we were all discussing during breaks, how hard the tests and assessments are, when nobody ever thinks of people in the civil service as particularly smart! I've been through a few other similar recruitment processes & the tests we did were unbelievably difficult in comparison!! Yet I'm applying for a cushy job with good pay, definitely seems to be what is on offer! However the news I discovered yesterday that you could be managing a job centre is ever so slightly off-putting!!

funk-you

Why doen't a civil servant stare out the window all morning? Because he'll have nothing to do all afternoon. Ba-dum-tish:pac:

-Funk

Zzippy

I work in the public service, with committed and dedicated people, probably because we work in an interesting area and are genuinely enthused by what we do (its an environmental area).
However, dealing with civil servants in our parent department is a nightmare. There are one or two really good ones, but unfortunately they get promoted to other sections or departments. The rest are incompetent and disinterested - and its because of the civil service structures - they stay in one area for max 5 years then move on to something else, so they never get fully up to speed with what we actually do, nor do they care.
They just fill up our lives with more and more paperwork, stats that we have to keep for them, etc, which eats into the time we have to do the actual work. All that paperwork keeps them in a job, however, and gives them targets and deliverables that they can show their bosses they achieved, hence nice promotion to the next section, etc....

SimpleSam06

BrianD3 wrote: »

Recent public servants (who pay full PRSI) do not get the normal contributory pension in addition to their public sector pension.

Yeah, cry me a river. Here comes a seriously damning report:

Irish Public Service 2001-2006: Salaries up 59%; Payroll up 18% - 38,000 workers and Pensions up 81.3%
By Finfacts Team

Irish public service salaries have risen by 59% in the past five years and the payroll has expanded by 38,000 extra staff.

The increase in the average industrial wage for a male worker in the period 2001-2005, was 19%.

The Exchequer’s annual wages and pensions bill increased sharply from €10.2 billion in 2001 to €16.2bn last year, with what has been termed "benchmarking" accounting for up to €1.32bn of the rise.

The number of public servants grew by 38,760, or 18%, since 2001 to 257,013 last January.

The education sector saw the biggest increase with pay costs rising by 65%. Health sector pay surged by 63% in the period, civil service salaries rose 48% and in the security sector they rose by 34.8%.

The average weekly earnings for non-health service public sector workers stood at €848 last September, according to the CSO.

This was above the €754 for the banking and insurance sector and €579 for industrial workers.

Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton insisted taxpayers were not getting value for money.

“Salaries have increased greatly, but there has been no quid pro quo for the taxpayer because ministers did not build the necessary reforms into the benchmarking structure,” he said.

and Labour’s spokeswoman on finance Joan Burton called for benchmarking to be much more transparent.

“I really don’t think we are seeing the money showing up on the frontline of health and education in particular. The bloated bureaucracy is swallowing so much up,” she said.

Public sector pay rose by 8% in 2005 and pensions now account for 10% of the total pay bill, up from 8.6% in 2001. The pensions bill has increased from €876m in 2001 to €1,588m in 2006 representing an 81.3% increase over the period. The increase in the health sector has been 104%. Pensioners also received the special benchmarking increase of an average of 9%.

The Department of Finance’s recent review of the Sustaining Progress and benchmarking initiatives found they had “contributed to the virtual absence of industrial disputes and disruptions in the public service”.

“It has also been particularly successful in securing commitment to co-operation with flexibility, ongoing change and implementing a modernisation agenda from the groups covered by the parallel benchmarking exercise,” the report stated.

Benchmarking

An average special pay increase of 9% has been awarded to politicians, public servants and pensioners. Aspirational targets have been introduced in public services but there is no evidence of any improvement whatsoever in accountability.

In the public service, the opportunity to link responsibility with accountability was flunked with a sham benchmarking system. The recent national partnership deal has provided for some public service reforms including a removal of the ban on outsourcing "core work" but these are essentially baby steps.

Irish public service workers come from the same gene pool as those who work for the world class companies that power our economy. However, senior managers can sign-off on multi-million euro projects without having to take any responsibility for it.

In December 2000, a Public Service Benchmarking Body, established under the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness (PPF), was asked to undertake a fundamental examination of the pay of public service employees vis-a-vis the private sector. Former Davy Stockbrokers' economist Jim O'Leary was a member of the body for a period but he resigned before it reported.

In 2004, O'Leary who had joined the Department of Economics at Maynooth University, published with two of his colleagues, the results of six months' rigorous and painstaking research into public-private sector pay differentials in Ireland - Public-Private Wage Differentials in Ireland, G.Boyle, R.McElligott and J.O'Leary, ESRI Quarterly Economic Commentary, Summer 2004.

O'Leary and his colleagues wanted to discover whether similar people in similar employment circumstances were better or worse off working in the public than in the private sector. In order to do this, they had to control for attributes like age, experience, gender and education, and also for job characteristics like occupation, type of contract and size of establishment.

As the CSO data does not permit this kind of analysis, the dataset that they had to use is one based on a large-scale survey conducted by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and used for much of its research into poverty and inequality.

The core finding was that on average, public servants earned 13 per cent more than their private sector counterparts on a like-for-like basis in 2001. The researchers also discovered that the size of this margin (the public sector premium) in 2001 was not significantly different from what it had been in 1994, suggesting that pay increases in the public sector had kept pace with the private sector throughout the Celtic Tiger period.

Another discovery was that the margin by which public service workers outearned their private sector counterparts tended to be significantly larger at the bottom of the income distribution than at the top.

A particularly striking finding was that the estimate of the public sector premium for Ireland was more than twice as large as the available estimates for other countries.

The Public Sector Benchmarking Body recommended pay increases which averaged 9 per cent across the grades examined and cost €1.2 billion a year. Government Departments introduced aspirational targets for staff that would make a laughing stock of a manager in the private sector who emulated the farcical exercise.

O'Leary says that the Public Sector Benchmarking Body never published its research results and at no stage in its 278-page report did it explicitly state or opine that public sector pay had fallen behind that in the private sector.

Ministers, other politicians and all living former employees of the Irish public service received special payments.

Last November, Davy Stockbrokers said that Irish public sector pay is on average around 120 percent of private sector earnings, having risen from 113 percent in the past five years, according to Davy Stockbrokers.

In a weekly market comment, Davy said that figures from the CSO (Central Statistics Office) indicated that average earnings in the public sector are now more than €43,000 a year. This compares with €33,500 in the private sector (industrial, construction, distribution and other sectors).

"Moreover, these crude comparisons take no account of the superior pension entitlements available to the public sector," Chief Economist Robbie Kelleher said.

The benchmarking awards have widened the gap significantly even though these were supposed to help the public sector catch up.

Kimbot

I noticed the report is more focused on the HSE than the rest of the general grade civil servants.

As stated in previous threads the pay for lower down civil servants is poor. I took a pay cut to get into the civil service. I work my rear off the whole time and I'm in the service 7 years earning 36 odd thou a year in an IT section. The work I have done has been programming etc. I know private sector workers that are on well more than double my salary after 7 years working in IT doing the exact same work and even less in some instances.

I do agree that the higher up scales are paid mad money, just look at the pay rises Bertie and Co got and people didn't kick up too much of a fuss with them. Yet when it comes to us low downs people hate us etc.

You Suck!

There are one or two really good ones, but unfortunately they get promoted to other sections or departments. The rest are incompetent and disinterested - and its because of the civil service structures - they stay in one area for max 5 years then move on to something else, so they never get fully up to speed with what we actually do, nor do they care.
They just fill up our lives with more and more paperwork, stats that we have to keep for them, etc, which eats into the time we have to do the actual work. All that paperwork keeps them in a job, however, and gives them targets and deliverables that they can show their bosses they achieved, hence nice promotion to the next section, etc....

This, and it's a damn complex issue. I spent a year working within a government agency and the best I can boil it down to is this........

Good honest hard working people enter the civil service with the best of intentions, but soon find themselves in a highly politicised bureaucratic atmosphere, where instead of being fired they can end up in the arse corner of the service, years of bashing your head turns you in to an unwilling cynical creature that cares only for your own corner.......you could be as sweet as sugar, but thats what your embroiled in.

This dosen't automatically happen to all civil servants, but you can be damn sure that one's near the top play the game.

I don't blame the people, but the system is ****ed and the effect of ássholes is magnified exponentially.

SimpleSam06

jonny24ie wrote: »

I noticed the report is more focused on the HSE than the rest of the general grade civil servants.

As stated in previous threads the pay for lower down civil servants is poor.

Gah. did you even read the article in front of you.

REPOSTED wrote:

The average weekly earnings for non-health service public sector workers stood at €848 last September, according to the CSO.

This was above the €754 for the banking and insurance sector and €579 for industrial workers.

Another discovery was that the margin by which public service workers outearned their private sector counterparts tended to be significantly larger at the bottom of the income distribution than at the top.

jonny24ie wrote: »

I know private sector workers that are on well more than double my salary after 7 years working in IT doing the exact same work and even less in some instances.

Thats actually a well known cliche by now. Leave it out and look at the facts. You can argue with that report if you like.

Wood

I'm working in the civil service for the last 5 years, and i don't even make 450 quid a week.

Compare that to someone labouring oin a building site, they get more money, more holidays, bonuses, and don't have to put up with the retards i have to.

My life is the movie office space.

You Suck!

Wood wrote: »

I'm working in the civil service for the last 5 years, and i don't even make 450 quid a week.

Compare that to someone labouring oin a building site, they get more money, more holidays, bonuses, and don't have to put up with the retards i have to.

My life is the movie office space.

Then why not GTFO!

5 years is an acceptable loss for pension contributions, and no doubt you have some relevant experience to the private sector.......

If you don't............you know that one miserable príck down the back corner of the office that isn't in seniority despite being in the service for over 30 years, you know the one who'll have you live under a flickering fluorescent light because the opw have to actually come on site and change the bulb, you know the ****er who sends tedious H&S emails requiring you to use a camping mug for hot drinks for fear you might scald someone...................................you know.....that guy......could be you in 25 years!!! :eek:

Life's too short.


That said, there is the chance of changing a different department or agency.......thing is thats the carrot the so many stay on for and don't get.

MOH

jonny24ie wrote: »

I wouldn't say its 9 out of 10 I would imagine at best its 50/50.

I work in the service and work my a$$ off.

Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?

Is that 50/50 as in half?
Or 50/50 as in 100%?

Nightwish

I work for the health service and I can I assure you I work hard. I know plenty who dont. From my experience its the low grade workers that work hardest and the higher you go up the ladder, the lazier they seem to be.

DublinWriter

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

As opposed to all us boardsies who are
Dynamic
Occupational genii (Watever the plural of genius is)
Never once sey an eye on a clock - we're far too busy and entertained
Have compelte compassions for everyone else both in and out of the office.

What's this 'we' business, paleface?

Honestly, I don't think I'd even bother wearing deodorant to work if I was on the salary scale of a C.O. or an E.O.

In your case I wouldn't worry about ever getting into the Civil Service as the misspellings in your post would rule you out of the entrance exam to begin with.

Dennis the Stone

Nightwish wrote: »

I work for the health service and I can I assure you I work hard. I know plenty who dont. From my experience its the low grade workers that work hardest and the higher you go up the ladder, the lazier they seem to be.

That's true, I spend most of my day [not in civil service] dealing with Dimwit Executive Officers and other high up civil servants who can't be bothered to do their job. If they come across a problem in their work they just ring up someone else and expect you to tell them what they should already know.

The lower level Civil Servants are paid peanuts.

Carrigart Exile

caoibhin wrote: »

Okey Dokey.
I'm going to get this off my chest.
In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
Lazy
Borderline incompetent.
Clock Watchers.
Full of a self-entitlement.

I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

I've worked in the public sector and the private sector, both had their share of hard workers, lazy bams and incompetents. I tend to find those that come out with rubbish like this have not worked in the public sector.

Caoimhín

Lads.... Focus.
This is an issue that affects us all. it needs to be addressed.

kwinabeeste

I used to work in the service for 3.5 years and experienced some interesting times dealing with many departments and offices and from Clerical Officers (min entry) to Secretary Generals (highest in Department) but i left as it wasn't for me for IT area.

Some of the management APs and PO's were a bit lazy etc but the vast majority were really hard working and were not afraid of hard work.

AO's, HEO's and EOs were mostly very hard working, helpful and very knowledgeable.

Some CO's that i dealt with were unfriendly and uncaring and yeah lazy. These would probably be the people that you deal with as they are often the 1st point of contact if i was looking for some material.

Don't know what area you were looking at but its like anything i think. I was in the passport office recently and the person on the "security" was doing the Irish Times crossword that was photocopied so obviously there was some kind of competition and was more interested in that than answering my question. But then i had to go to the Births, Deaths and marraiges on Westland Row and they were really helpful. Some bad eggs in every job i suppose. I noticed that the unhelpful ones were older than average (50's) and may not be qualified as the more recent entrants.

Possible contraversial statement... AFAIK there was some "policy" in the 1970's that married women had to leave the service which was obviously cancelled recently and many of these women have been recently returning... maybe some of these are the people you are dealing with...

Kimbot

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Gah. did you even read the article in front of you.




Thats actually a well known cliche by now. Leave it out and look at the facts. You can argue with that report if you like.

I can argue with the report indeed and I will. I was a union rep for 4 out of my 7 years in the service. Still in the service and doing other peoples work.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55611932&postcount=21

A CO's start off salary is 22,609 a year.

Thats 434.79 a week before tax. The average you posted is nearly double that!!

Have you ever worked in the service??

I have worked in 3 different departments and when I have had work assigned to me its done straight away. Where I am now there are numerous amounts of helpful staff and others that don't seem to be bothered but you get that in the private sector aswell.

SimpleSam06

jonny24ie wrote: »

A CO's start off salary is 22,609 a year.

Thats 434.79 a week before tax. The average you posted is nearly double that!!

So you went from 22k per year to 36k per year in 7 years, a growth of 2k per year? It was probably more since just-in-the-door salaries seven years ago were likely lower; still it represents a 10% wage rise in your first year.

You have my sympathies. :rolleyes:

On the plus side, according to the papers, Cowen isn't taking any crap this time round. Looks like the free ride is over.

Kimbot

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

So you went from 22k per year to 36k per year in 7 years, a growth of 2k per year? It was probably more since just-in-the-door salaries seven years ago were likely lower; still it represents a 10% wage rise in your first year.

You have my sympathies. :rolleyes:

On the plus side, according to the papers, Cowen isn't taking any crap this time round. Looks like the free ride is over.

That also took me 2 promotions in the 7 years to get that salary which I worked hard to get.

I like the way you didn't answer the question, so I'll take that as you haven't worked in the service. As I said earlier the higher ups earn top money but the lower downs do most of the work for the little they get!!

SimpleSam06

jonny24ie wrote: »

As I said earlier the higher ups earn top money but the lower downs do most of the work for the little they get!!

Which is flatly denied by the report I linked to, weighed against which we have your little anecdote. Like for like, the public sector earns far more than than private sector employees, and in addition have jobs for life and sweet pension plans.

You being a union rep, I wouldn't expect anything less than die hard toeing of the party line, so that will about do it I guess.

SimpleSam06

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

You being a union rep, I wouldn't expect anything less than die hard toeing of the party line, so that will about do it I guess.

Him being a Unon rep, I would expect the exact opposite as he obviously has to deal with management who, by and large, are the lazy, heel-dragging element that the service is famous for. I'd be willing to bet that he is doing anything but "toeing the line". (also, what do you mean by party? Is that political party?)

I'm a public servant (like civil servant but without the option of inter-deparmental transfers) and, due to the timing of my appointment, this May will see the first opportunity for promotion to the next grade. I'm in my 5th year of employment and am currently on €27.5k. Out of interest I'd like to compare that with someone in a similar situation in the private sector.

FlutterinBantam

Nice one!!!!

snorlax

a lot of people working for the HSE (new people..eg.therapist, nurses etc) are on contracts as they're temporary staff..some don't even have written contracts...

Carrigart Exile

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Which is flatly denied by the report I linked to, weighed against which we have your little anecdote. Like for like, the public sector earns far more than than private sector employees, and in addition have jobs for life and sweet pension plans.

You being a union rep, I wouldn't expect anything less than die hard toeing of the party line, so that will about do it I guess.

Utter rubbish, about 25% of civil servants usually earn a wage that qualifies them for state benefits, the average civil service pension is a wonderful index linked €10k a year.

Nightwish

All new staff in the HSE are given contracts, but its true that many are on temporary contracts. Its quite difficult to get a permanent position in the HSE in the current climate.

The only people who I've come across with no contracts are temps taken in between 6 and 3 years ago. Many support grades (domestics, attendants) didnt seem to have any nor clerical officers who were taken in to cover short term absences. I've yet to come across any therapist or nursing grade staff without a contract.

And just an aside, I earn 25k working for the HSE. I dont understand where people get the idea that we're paid well. The higher up grades are but clerical staff arent. In fact I earned more p.a. when I was working in retail. Not complaining at all, just stating what I know.

invincibleirish

Nightwish wrote: »

A

And just an aside, I earn 25k working for the HSE. I dont understand where people get the idea that we're paid well

People dont, the public opinion is however of the opinion there are too many non essential staff in the HSE and that it leaks money.

Example #435554. a friend who is a student works as a part time A&E receptionist type person.

she is 21 and earns in and around 700-1000 euro a month (i know this as she is paid once a month and is rather glleful when it comes about)

the kicker? she is only called in when needed and works on average 10 days a month (and does **** all when on the job as she admits herself)

is it a coincidence that both her parents work in the same hospital in similar type jobs, higher up, obviously.

I wish i had her job.

branners69

SimpleSam06 that report you are quoting is a joke, even Homer knows that "people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that."

A Secrectary General earns roughly €4,000 a week(after tax)!! A C.O. starting in the service earns maybe €400(before tax)!! The average of these two civil servants is €2,200 so the report you quoted is using figures which suits the tone of the article!

You also accuse jonny24ie of "die hard toeing of the party line", whats your excuse for the Civil Service negativity, fail the exam???

Kimbot

branners69 wrote: »

You also accuse jonny24ie of "die hard toeing of the party line", whats your excuse for the Civil Service negativity, fail the exam???

Plus he didn't notice that I said I was a union rep.

bug

It's possibly contagious.

If you are a hard enthusiastic dilligent worker in the civil service, you will suddenly realise that ...
(a)the structures are totally prohibitive in allowing you to do your job.
(b) you can scream and shout all you want and nothing will change.
(c) you will wear yourself down with stress trying to change anything
(d) unions should be taken out and beaten to within an inch of their lives.
(e) everyone over 40 in the civil service should conform to industry standards or be forced to retire

I've seen the hardest workers in the world burn themselves out by banging their head off a brick wall.
That's why some find it easier to keep the head down and not get involved whilst doing the bear minimum. The more taken on, the more dumped on.

I've worked in industry and I've worked in the civil service.
Competitive industry even at it's most arduous is not as stressful as working in a public service environment. It's about as depressing as working in an abbatoir.

Nightwish

invincibleirish wrote: »

People dont, the public opinion is however of the opinion there are too many non essential staff in the HSE and that it leaks money.

Example #435554. a friend who is a student works as a part time A&E receptionist type person.

she is 21 and earns in and around 700-1000 euro a month (i know this as she is paid once a month and is rather glleful when it comes about)

the kicker? she is only called in when needed and works on average 10 days a month (and does **** all when on the job as she admits herself)

is it a coincidence that both her parents work in the same hospital in similar type jobs, higher up, obviously.

I wish i had her job.

There are approx 600 staff at Grade VIII level, which is more than there were under the old Health Board system, which is ridiculous. The system is management top heavy. In the region where I work I could name at least 20 Grade VIII's who do sweet fu<k all. Their positions were eliminated when the HSE came into effect, so they were given a fancy title but dont really seem to do a whole lot.

I live with a girl who works in A&E as a receptionist. She seems to work very little but she's on a 7 week rota which involves a mix of 9-5 work, 12 hour shifts and night shifts. To us it appears she's never in work but in fact over the 7 week period it works out on average a 35 hour week. A&E admin staff, due to shiftwork get night shift allowances which is why they bring in a lot more than the rest of the clerical grades.

Both my parents work in the HSE too, but I can assure you I got in on my own merits. I dont recall either of my parents doing the interview for me. I do know of people in the past (as in 10+ years ago) who were just given jobs by parents, family friends or the odd politician who sat on the health board. It was that type of behaviour which allowed incompetent idiots into the system (not that interviewing is a failsafe measure against it either).

bug

Nightwish wrote: »

I do know of people in the past (as in 10+ years ago) who were just given jobs by parents, family friends or the odd politician who sat on the health board. It was that type of behaviour which allowed incompetent idiots into the system (not that interviewing is a failsafe measure against it either).

So how does one cut off the dead wood?
Is there an actual feasible way around this.. that question is directed at anyone by the way.

flanum

is there a difference between working FOR the civil service and being a civil servant?? im stupid i havent a clue.. i worked up until last year for 5 years for a certain government financial institute based in sandyford that manufactured currency(yes the mint) as a maintenance spark. i never quite knew then and still dont know now. was i a civil servant or did i work for the civil service, or is there a difference?? my pay cheque used to have the whole harp/new fangled stupid weird gold globe thing ye can see on dame st.
so was i one of them??

invincibleirish

Great news, Galway University Hospital to close for a month in August (except its A&E)

http://www.galwaynews.ie/3535-university-hospital-close-august

again costs are the reason. the HSE is a shambles, the problem?

Greedy Consultant's
Greedy Pharmacist's
Incompetent & greedy Bureaucrat's
Abysmal me feiner Politicians
prioritising of Private Healthcare

Everyone has their fingers in the pie for themselves.