Liddel out of UFC 85

Charlie3dan · 24-04-2008 03:10PM

Why, is there a problem with the Werdum vs Vera fight now?

Fozzy · 24-04-2008 03:16PM

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Why, is there a problem with the Werdum vs Vera fight now?

I don't think so. My guess would be that the Mir vs McCully fight being taken off the site means more than the Vera vs Gonzaga picture being put on

Could mean Werdum vs Nogueira too...

stevie78 · 25-04-2008 12:27AM

Not trying to be facetious (well, not much), but I don't believe in the idea of lucky in a fight. Yes he was being beaten badly in the stand up game, but he made the conscious decision to go for a submission, that paid off

you dont believe in lucky in a fight ok so frank mir was lucky that brock lesner was stupid enough to leave his leg where mir could grab it . if that had not happened mir was going to get pounded out .
rampage was lucky to catch liddell or he might have been the one knocked out.
and dont even get me started on that dwarf sierra against st pierre in the first fight.
as good as all fighters are there has to be some amount of luck involved in any fight whether its someone dropping there hands to turning the wrong way and gettin submitted. its a fact of life sometimes when you get two great fighters together luck is the deciding factor in who wins and who gets knocked the f**k out
therefore its a bit silly to say you dont believe in luck in a fight what was it all planned in the dressing room if so then its not a fight is it?

Fozzy · 25-04-2008 12:37AM

The only cases where I believe that luck is a factor in a fight is with something like that Mark Kerr fight in PRIDE where he knocked himself out doing a slam or when Vitor Belfort beat Couture by grazing his glove off Randy's face. That's something unintentional which leads to a good thing for a fighter

Mir wasn't "lucky" to get that kneebar, he simply capitalised on a mistake made by his opponent. That's often how fights are won. Is every fighter who capitalises on a mistake lucky? Rampage and Serra did exactly what they intended to do in the fights mentioned, no luck involved, just carrying out what they'd practised in training a thousand times over

cletus · 25-04-2008 09:53AM

Fozzy wrote: »

The only cases where I believe that luck is a factor in a fight is with something like that Mark Kerr fight in PRIDE where he knocked himself out doing a slam or when Vitor Belfort beat Couture by grazing his glove off Randy's face. That's something unintentional which leads to a good thing for a fighter

Mir wasn't "lucky" to get that kneebar, he simply capitalised on a mistake made by his opponent. That's often how fights are won. Is every fighter who capitalises on a mistake lucky? Rampage and Serra did exactly what they intended to do in the fights mentioned, no luck involved, just carrying out what they'd practised in training a thousand times over

This is exactly my opinion as well. this is what these guys are trained to do. Its what they intend to do. The only way that a punch can be lucky is if the person throwing the punch is not trying to hit their opponent, but hits them anyway, and we all know how likely that is.

Dragan · 25-04-2008 10:33AM

stevie78 wrote: »

as good as all fighters are there has to be some amount of luck involved in any fight whether its someone dropping there hands to turning the wrong way and gettin submitted.

Out of interest have you trained in a standup or a grappling art? I'm not asking to knock your opinion i am just seriously wondering what you are basing this on.

You train for a fight to act and react a certain way, having you opponent dropping his hands and throwing a KO punch is capitilising on a situation, it's not lucky for your that they dropped his hands.

If you choose to take a certain action when on the ground that leads to you being submitted it is because you messed up, or you didn't know....not because your opponent is lucky.

You cannot apply the word "luck" to a situation that revolves around independant choices made by two different people. It makes no sense.

Walking down the street and finding a fiver is lucky.

Judomad · 25-04-2008 11:23AM

Dragan wrote: »

Walking down the street and finding a fiver is lucky.

a fiver!!!!!!!!!! thats not lucky, if you were lucky itd be a 50

:D

Dragan · 25-04-2008 11:31AM

Judomad wrote: »

a fiver!!!!!!!!!! thats not lucky, if you were lucky itd be a 50 :D

Aim low and always be happy!!! lol

Cept with wimmins!:D

Colm_OReilly · 25-04-2008 11:35AM

That was my fiver!!!!

Mino at London - that I'd be interested in seeing. Me and Mino go way back.

t-ha · 25-04-2008 11:57AM

I believe you can get lucky in a fight. Yes obviously you're doing a move that you've trained over and over, but basically if you beat a guy that would whip your butt 9 times out of ten then you got lucky. My very first sub-wrestling comp I guillotined a guy from my own gym who was more experienced than me and used to own me in the gym. I did the guillotine on purpose but I pretty much just got lucky. I get what people are saying though. Also, yeah it's got to be 20 quid or I'm not picking it up. Celtic tiger FTW!

Judomad · 25-04-2008 12:50PM

Dragan wrote: »

Aim low and always be happy!!! lol

Cept with wimmins!:D

nawww mate, if i found a fiver id feel that scabby picking it up

id probably walk by it in disgust, like if someone is going to lose something at least let it be a decent amount like what happens to me

:D:D

Fozzy · 25-04-2008 08:15PM

Matt Hughes vs Thiago Alves is the main event for UFC 85. Should be very interesting

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6160&zoneid=2

stevie78 · 27-04-2008 04:02PM

Dragan wrote: »

Out of interest have you trained in a standup or a grappling art? I'm not asking to knock your opinion i am just seriously wondering what you are basing this on.

You train for a fight to act and react a certain way, having you opponent dropping his hands and throwing a KO punch is capitilising on a situation, it's not lucky for your that they dropped his hands.

If you choose to take a certain action when on the ground that leads to you being submitted it is because you messed up, or you didn't know....not because your opponent is lucky.

You cannot apply the word "luck" to a situation that revolves around independant choices made by two different people. It makes no sense.

Walking down the street and finding a fiver is lucky.

YES TO ANS YOUR QUESTION I HAVE BEEN TRAINED IN STANDUP NO REAL INTREST IN GRAPPLING TO BE HONEST DONE A BIT JUST NOT FOR ME. NOW TO ANS YOU ONE OF THE GUYS I TRAIN WITH IS ABOUT 6FT AND NEARLY 20 STONE WHEN SPARRING HIM ITS VERY RARE THAT I CAN GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO EVEN BRUSH AGAINST HIM LET ALONE HIT THE GIT. NOW WE TRAIN THREE TO FOUR TIMES A WEEK FOR ABOUT 3 HOURS A DAY AND I KEEP PRACTISING EVERY MOVE IN THE BOOK BUT NO MATTER HOW MUCH I TRY I CAN NEVER HIT HIM. HOWEVER THE FEW TIMES I HAVE GOT HIM IVE CONSIDERED MYSELF LUCKY TO HAVE DONE IT

THAT IS MY POINT IM NOT SAYING THESE FIGHTERS DONT MAKE THE DECISION TO DO A MOVE TO FINNISH THE FIGHT IM JUST SAYING THAT WHEN SOMEONE WHO IS GETTIN BEATEN UP IN A FIGHT AND LOOSING BADLY DOES IT AND COMES OUT THE WINNER THERE IS SOMETHING LUCKY ABOUT THAT

Mark Hamill · 27-04-2008 04:57PM

Dragan wrote: »

You cannot apply the word "luck" to a situation that revolves around independant choices made by two different people. It makes no sense.

I choose to do the lotto, but if I won it, would it not be from luck? Just because you intend to do something and it happens to work doesn't stop it being luck, it depends on whether you can in all honesty expect it to happen.
The difference between luck and skill in a fight is whether or not you think the "lucky" person could pull it off 9 times out of 10. If he could, then its skill, if its only a something he'd catch 1 or 2 times out of 10, then its luck (This is no real commiseration to someone who gets knocked-out by a lucky punch though)

stevie78 · 27-04-2008 06:23PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I choose to do the lotto, but if I won it, would it not be from luck? Just because you intend to do something and it happens to work doesn't stop it being luck, it depends on whether you can in all honesty expect it to happen.
The difference between luck and skill in a fight is whether or not you think the "lucky" person could pull it off 9 times out of 10. If he could, then its skill, if its only a something he'd catch 1 or 2 times out of 10, then its luck (This is no real commiseration to someone who gets knocked-out by a lucky punch though)

COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF

THawk · 30-04-2008 11:11PM

[quote one of the luckiest submission moves anyone has ever seen , if you look at the fight again he was gettin destroyed by silva and decided to try a flying sissors ankle lock . yeah he got it but silva was new to mma at the time it was one of his first fights

if they fought again it would probably end in the first round with silva knocking him out. by the way!!!![/quote]

That ridiculous! What was he supposed to do, give up because he was getting destroyed?? He tried something high risk and it paid off because the execution was perfect!

dunkamania · 01-05-2008 08:57AM

Leben got arrested for a DUI, bail was refused because he already under probation. This is really irritating cos I was really looking forward to the Bisping match:mad:

Dragan · 01-05-2008 10:06AM

dunkamania wrote: »

Leben got arrested for a DUI, bail was refused because he already under probation. This is really irritating cos I was really looking forward to the Bisping match:mad:

What a ****ing idiot.

Nothingcompares · 01-05-2008 01:07PM

ah for flip sake.

Fozzy · 01-05-2008 01:20PM

There's a post here by T Jay Thompson, the promoter of ICON Sport and Leben's manager, who says that Leben turned himself in voluntarily because he's moving to Hawaii and he wasn't able to get the probation charges transferred to that state: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum.posts&thread=1271257&forum=1&page=1&pc=12

He's basically saying that it's no big deal because it's just a way to ensure that he's got no charges hanging over him that would prevent him from travelling to London. As far as I can tell the post is legitimate, but I guess we'll see soon enough

dunkamania · 01-05-2008 02:36PM

I hope its true

Fozzy · 01-05-2008 08:09PM

The Wrestling Observer says that the UFC knew about Leben's issues for about a week and they expect the fight to go ahead

Fozzy · 09-05-2008 12:05AM

The Bisping vs Leben fight is officially off now because Leben's jail sentence is longer than what they expected. From the Wrestling Observer site:

Chris Leben was sentenced today to 35 days in jail after turning himself in on a probation violation. He will be released on 5/27, because he is being given credit for days served, but this won't leave him with any training time for a fight on 6/7 in London.

It has been confirmed with UFC the Michael Bisping vs. Chris Leben match is off. Joe Silva had already had a back-up plan in case Leben wasn't able to do the fight. UFC expected Leben to be released today. At this point we can't confirm a replacement.

Charlie3dan · 09-05-2008 09:07AM

What else can go wrong. Hopefully they line up another decent fight for Bisping.

Even with all the difficulties this event has had it's still not a bad card. Hopefully when Chuck and Shogun get healed up we'll get to see that fight later in the year.

Fozzy · 09-05-2008 01:02PM

Nate Quarry was asked to replace Leben but he's got an elbow injury

I'm not sure about Chuck vs Shogun happening this year. Depends when they're both fit. If they're fit for fighting in September then it's possible (I think Chuck's more likely to be ready than Shogun though). If they're not fit to fight each other til October or November then I can see them holding it off, because they want their biggest fight possible for the December show and that fight is Chuck vs Rampage. Could change if Rampage loses his title though

Charlie3dan · 09-05-2008 01:41PM

I think I read somewhere that shogun probably not expected back till october.

I wouldn't be so excited about another Chuck Vs Rampage but I suppose you could hype the hell of it. But I think there's a whole bunch of great fights just waiting to happen to between a various mixture of, Rampage, Chuck, Wandy, Forrest and Jardine

Liddel out of UFC 85

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