Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Civil Servants

  • 24-04-2008 08:06AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭


    Okey Dokey.
    I'm going to get this off my chest.
    In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
    Lazy
    Borderline incompetent.
    Clock Watchers.
    Full of a self-entitlement.

    I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
    Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

    It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭Unaton


    Ow thanks :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Well they pretty much can't get fired. Why would they work hard?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Sherifu wrote: »
    Well they pretty much can't get fired. Why would they work hard?
    I'd have to agree with this ^^

    To get into a Civil Service job takes its time but once your in, your in for life!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 19,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    caoibhin wrote: »
    Okey Dokey.
    I'm going to get this off my chest.
    In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
    Lazy
    Borderline incompetent.
    Clock Watchers.
    Full of a self-entitlement.

    I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
    Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

    It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.


    I wouldn't say its 9 out of 10 I would imagine at best its 50/50.

    I work in the service and work my a$$ off.

    Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Maybe they're just sending you the gobshítes for training...:D Seriously though I take you point. In my dealings I wouldn't say 9 outa 10, but I would say I'm shocked how half of these amadans can dress themselves. Idiot sons of idiot sons.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 19,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    I'd have to agree with this ^^

    To get into a Civil Service job takes its time but once your in, your in for life!

    Not anymore, slackers are all going to get the sack and I have known a good few in the last while that got the sack aswell.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    These slackers weren't spending their days browsing boards by any chance?!! :D


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 19,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    These slackers weren't spending their days browsing boards by any chance?!! :D

    Nope.... but the net is a big thing these says, spend too long on it and there will be repercussions.
    I very rarely get the chance to look at Boards when I'm in work anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    caoibhin wrote: »
    Okey Dokey.
    I'm going to get this off my chest.
    In my job I have to deal with a number of government departments on a daily basis. Now, i find time and time again that 9 out of ten of the people working in these departments are;
    Lazy
    Borderline incompetent.
    Clock Watchers.
    Full of a self-entitlement.

    I'm not talking about the manual laborers either but most in administration and management.
    Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

    It once was the case that a job with the civil service was a poorly paid job but a secure job with a good pension but now they have the best of both worlds.

    As opposed to all us boardsies who are

    Dynamic
    Occupational genii (Watever the plural of genius is)
    Never once sey an eye on a clock - we're far too busy and entertained
    Have compelte compassions for everyone else both in and out of the office.

    If the opportuinities presents itself, grab with both hands I say!

    p.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?
    The public sector pay has far exceeded the private sector for almost ten years now, despite (removed) elements of the benchmarking report finding that at the time public sector pay was in line with private sector. The benchmarking report also completely failed to account for gold plated non contributory pensions, which added some 30% onto the pay of public sector employees.

    Of course try to reduce pay and they will bring the country to its knees with strikes.

    I'm not painting with a broad brush all public sector workers, there are many, many conscientious and good individuals in the sector, who do a good job and work hard, but there are also many who do not, and have no need to do so, since they can't be fired.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    With many relatives in the civil and public service I'm afraid I can only confirm that the majority of the civil and public service are lazy feckless wasters. I've heard everything from complaints lodged against managers for expecting staff staff to work the hours in their job description to trashing office equipment out of boredom, neither resulted in a sacking.:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Rob_l


    Damn their black hearts to hell I say

    All lazy people will be shot when the revolution comes. A list of those who post on after hours during a working day will of course be handed to the executioners as a first priority.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭Decuc500


    I'm a civil servant and sure I've known a few wasters in my time but you get them in all types of jobs. Most of the people I work with are hard working and dedicated and do what's asked of them and more.

    I had the unfortunate experience of working in a dole office for a few years and after being insulted and spoken down to on a daily basis by members of the public I can see how some civil servants might get disillusioned with the job.

    It's plain to see from the ignorance of some of the comments above though that people are inclined to believe a cliche and tar all of us with the same brush.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    Rob_l wrote: »
    Damn their black hearts to hell I say
    Careful the PC brigade will insist you were being racist.:rolleyes::p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭CountingCrows


    caoibhin wrote: »
    Now, does anyone else fine this? are these qualities a requirement to work in the civil service or is it a contagious condition?

    Its definitely contagious, friend of mine started working there many moons ago. I remember him giving out about the "bums" wearing tracksuits to work while he was in his shirt & trousers, guess what he wear to work now :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Its definitely contagious, friend of mine started working there many moons ago. I remember him giving out about the "bums" wearing tracksuits to work while he was in his shirt & trousers, guess what he wear to work now :rolleyes:
    A shirt and tracksuit = skanger :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,039 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The benchmarking report also completely failed to account for gold plated non contributory pensions, which added some 30% onto the pay of public sector employees.
    Public sector pensions are contributory. Public servants pay a nice whack of their salary into superannuation. Some of what is written in newspapers about "gold plated" public sector pensions is actually wrong with wrong calculations. Recent public servants (who pay full PRSI) do not get the normal contributory pension in addition to their public sector pension. A private sector worker who takes out his own pension and pays PRSI gets two pensions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭soozb82


    How random I found this! I had an assessment centre (for the NI civil service) yesterday, and we were all discussing during breaks, how hard the tests and assessments are, when nobody ever thinks of people in the civil service as particularly smart! I've been through a few other similar recruitment processes & the tests we did were unbelievably difficult in comparison!! Yet I'm applying for a cushy job with good pay, definitely seems to be what is on offer! However the news I discovered yesterday that you could be managing a job centre is ever so slightly off-putting!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭funk-you


    Why doen't a civil servant stare out the window all morning? Because he'll have nothing to do all afternoon. Ba-dum-tish:pac:

    -Funk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    I work in the public service, with committed and dedicated people, probably because we work in an interesting area and are genuinely enthused by what we do (its an environmental area).
    However, dealing with civil servants in our parent department is a nightmare. There are one or two really good ones, but unfortunately they get promoted to other sections or departments. The rest are incompetent and disinterested - and its because of the civil service structures - they stay in one area for max 5 years then move on to something else, so they never get fully up to speed with what we actually do, nor do they care.
    They just fill up our lives with more and more paperwork, stats that we have to keep for them, etc, which eats into the time we have to do the actual work. All that paperwork keeps them in a job, however, and gives them targets and deliverables that they can show their bosses they achieved, hence nice promotion to the next section, etc....


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    Recent public servants (who pay full PRSI) do not get the normal contributory pension in addition to their public sector pension.
    Yeah, cry me a river. Here comes a seriously damning report:
    Irish Public Service 2001-2006: Salaries up 59%; Payroll up 18% - 38,000 workers and Pensions up 81.3%
    By Finfacts Team

    Irish public service salaries have risen by 59% in the past five years and the payroll has expanded by 38,000 extra staff.

    The increase in the average industrial wage for a male worker in the period 2001-2005, was 19%.

    The Exchequer’s annual wages and pensions bill increased sharply from €10.2 billion in 2001 to €16.2bn last year, with what has been termed "benchmarking" accounting for up to €1.32bn of the rise.

    The number of public servants grew by 38,760, or 18%, since 2001 to 257,013 last January.

    The education sector saw the biggest increase with pay costs rising by 65%. Health sector pay surged by 63% in the period, civil service salaries rose 48% and in the security sector they rose by 34.8%.

    The average weekly earnings for non-health service public sector workers stood at €848 last September, according to the CSO.

    This was above the €754 for the banking and insurance sector and €579 for industrial workers.


    Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton insisted taxpayers were not getting value for money.

    “Salaries have increased greatly, but there has been no quid pro quo for the taxpayer because ministers did not build the necessary reforms into the benchmarking structure,” he said.

    and Labour’s spokeswoman on finance Joan Burton called for benchmarking to be much more transparent.

    “I really don’t think we are seeing the money showing up on the frontline of health and education in particular. The bloated bureaucracy is swallowing so much up,” she said.

    Public sector pay rose by 8% in 2005 and pensions now account for 10% of the total pay bill, up from 8.6% in 2001. The pensions bill has increased from €876m in 2001 to €1,588m in 2006 representing an 81.3% increase over the period. The increase in the health sector has been 104%. Pensioners also received the special benchmarking increase of an average of 9%.

    The Department of Finance’s recent review of the Sustaining Progress and benchmarking initiatives found they had “contributed to the virtual absence of industrial disputes and disruptions in the public service”.

    “It has also been particularly successful in securing commitment to co-operation with flexibility, ongoing change and implementing a modernisation agenda from the groups covered by the parallel benchmarking exercise,” the report stated.

    Benchmarking

    An average special pay increase of 9% has been awarded to politicians, public servants and pensioners. Aspirational targets have been introduced in public services but there is no evidence of any improvement whatsoever in accountability.

    In the public service, the opportunity to link responsibility with accountability was flunked with a sham benchmarking system. The recent national partnership deal has provided for some public service reforms including a removal of the ban on outsourcing "core work" but these are essentially baby steps.

    Irish public service workers come from the same gene pool as those who work for the world class companies that power our economy. However, senior managers can sign-off on multi-million euro projects without having to take any responsibility for it.

    In December 2000, a Public Service Benchmarking Body, established under the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness (PPF), was asked to undertake a fundamental examination of the pay of public service employees vis-a-vis the private sector. Former Davy Stockbrokers' economist Jim O'Leary was a member of the body for a period but he resigned before it reported.

    In 2004, O'Leary who had joined the Department of Economics at Maynooth University, published with two of his colleagues, the results of six months' rigorous and painstaking research into public-private sector pay differentials in Ireland - Public-Private Wage Differentials in Ireland, G.Boyle, R.McElligott and J.O'Leary, ESRI Quarterly Economic Commentary, Summer 2004.

    O'Leary and his colleagues wanted to discover whether similar people in similar employment circumstances were better or worse off working in the public than in the private sector. In order to do this, they had to control for attributes like age, experience, gender and education, and also for job characteristics like occupation, type of contract and size of establishment.

    As the CSO data does not permit this kind of analysis, the dataset that they had to use is one based on a large-scale survey conducted by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and used for much of its research into poverty and inequality.

    The core finding was that on average, public servants earned 13 per cent more than their private sector counterparts on a like-for-like basis in 2001. The researchers also discovered that the size of this margin (the public sector premium) in 2001 was not significantly different from what it had been in 1994, suggesting that pay increases in the public sector had kept pace with the private sector throughout the Celtic Tiger period.

    Another discovery was that the margin by which public service workers outearned their private sector counterparts tended to be significantly larger at the bottom of the income distribution than at the top.

    A particularly striking finding was that the estimate of the public sector premium for Ireland was more than twice as large as the available estimates for other countries.

    The Public Sector Benchmarking Body recommended pay increases which averaged 9 per cent across the grades examined and cost €1.2 billion a year. Government Departments introduced aspirational targets for staff that would make a laughing stock of a manager in the private sector who emulated the farcical exercise.

    O'Leary says that the Public Sector Benchmarking Body never published its research results and at no stage in its 278-page report did it explicitly state or opine that public sector pay had fallen behind that in the private sector.

    Ministers, other politicians and all living former employees of the Irish public service received special payments.

    Last November, Davy Stockbrokers said that Irish public sector pay is on average around 120 percent of private sector earnings, having risen from 113 percent in the past five years, according to Davy Stockbrokers.

    In a weekly market comment, Davy said that figures from the CSO (Central Statistics Office) indicated that average earnings in the public sector are now more than €43,000 a year. This compares with €33,500 in the private sector (industrial, construction, distribution and other sectors).

    "Moreover, these crude comparisons take no account of the superior pension entitlements available to the public sector," Chief Economist Robbie Kelleher said.

    The benchmarking awards have widened the gap significantly even though these were supposed to help the public sector catch up.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 19,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    I noticed the report is more focused on the HSE than the rest of the general grade civil servants.

    As stated in previous threads the pay for lower down civil servants is poor. I took a pay cut to get into the civil service. I work my rear off the whole time and I'm in the service 7 years earning 36 odd thou a year in an IT section. The work I have done has been programming etc. I know private sector workers that are on well more than double my salary after 7 years working in IT doing the exact same work and even less in some instances.

    I do agree that the higher up scales are paid mad money, just look at the pay rises Bertie and Co got and people didn't kick up too much of a fuss with them. Yet when it comes to us low downs people hate us etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭You Suck!


    There are one or two really good ones, but unfortunately they get promoted to other sections or departments. The rest are incompetent and disinterested - and its because of the civil service structures - they stay in one area for max 5 years then move on to something else, so they never get fully up to speed with what we actually do, nor do they care.
    They just fill up our lives with more and more paperwork, stats that we have to keep for them, etc, which eats into the time we have to do the actual work. All that paperwork keeps them in a job, however, and gives them targets and deliverables that they can show their bosses they achieved, hence nice promotion to the next section, etc....

    This, and it's a damn complex issue. I spent a year working within a government agency and the best I can boil it down to is this........

    Good honest hard working people enter the civil service with the best of intentions, but soon find themselves in a highly politicised bureaucratic atmosphere, where instead of being fired they can end up in the arse corner of the service, years of bashing your head turns you in to an unwilling cynical creature that cares only for your own corner.......you could be as sweet as sugar, but thats what your embroiled in.

    This dosen't automatically happen to all civil servants, but you can be damn sure that one's near the top play the game.

    I don't blame the people, but the system is ****ed and the effect of ássholes is magnified exponentially.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    I noticed the report is more focused on the HSE than the rest of the general grade civil servants.

    As stated in previous threads the pay for lower down civil servants is poor.
    Gah. did you even read the article in front of you.
    REPOSTED wrote:
    The average weekly earnings for non-health service public sector workers stood at €848 last September, according to the CSO.

    This was above the €754 for the banking and insurance sector and €579 for industrial workers.

    Another discovery was that the margin by which public service workers outearned their private sector counterparts tended to be significantly larger at the bottom of the income distribution than at the top.
    jonny24ie wrote: »
    I know private sector workers that are on well more than double my salary after 7 years working in IT doing the exact same work and even less in some instances.
    Thats actually a well known cliche by now. Leave it out and look at the facts. You can argue with that report if you like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭Wood


    I'm working in the civil service for the last 5 years, and i don't even make 450 quid a week.

    Compare that to someone labouring oin a building site, they get more money, more holidays, bonuses, and don't have to put up with the retards i have to.

    My life is the movie office space.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭You Suck!


    Wood wrote: »
    I'm working in the civil service for the last 5 years, and i don't even make 450 quid a week.

    Compare that to someone labouring oin a building site, they get more money, more holidays, bonuses, and don't have to put up with the retards i have to.

    My life is the movie office space.

    Then why not GTFO!

    5 years is an acceptable loss for pension contributions, and no doubt you have some relevant experience to the private sector.......

    If you don't............you know that one miserable príck down the back corner of the office that isn't in seniority despite being in the service for over 30 years, you know the one who'll have you live under a flickering fluorescent light because the opw have to actually come on site and change the bulb, you know the ****er who sends tedious H&S emails requiring you to use a camping mug for hot drinks for fear you might scald someone...................................you know.....that guy......could be you in 25 years!!! :eek:

    Life's too short.


    That said, there is the chance of changing a different department or agency.......thing is thats the carrot the so many stay on for and don't get.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭MOH


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    I wouldn't say its 9 out of 10 I would imagine at best its 50/50.

    I work in the service and work my a$$ off.

    Best of both worlds??? Where are you getting that idea?

    Is that 50/50 as in half?
    Or 50/50 as in 100%?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,129 ✭✭✭Nightwish


    I work for the health service and I can I assure you I work hard. I know plenty who dont. From my experience its the low grade workers that work hardest and the higher you go up the ladder, the lazier they seem to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    As opposed to all us boardsies who are
    Dynamic
    Occupational genii (Watever the plural of genius is)
    Never once sey an eye on a clock - we're far too busy and entertained
    Have compelte compassions for everyone else both in and out of the office.
    What's this 'we' business, paleface?

    Honestly, I don't think I'd even bother wearing deodorant to work if I was on the salary scale of a C.O. or an E.O.

    In your case I wouldn't worry about ever getting into the Civil Service as the misspellings in your post would rule you out of the entrance exam to begin with.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Dennis the Stone


    Nightwish wrote: »
    I work for the health service and I can I assure you I work hard. I know plenty who dont. From my experience its the low grade workers that work hardest and the higher you go up the ladder, the lazier they seem to be.


    That's true, I spend most of my day [not in civil service] dealing with Dimwit Executive Officers and other high up civil servants who can't be bothered to do their job. If they come across a problem in their work they just ring up someone else and expect you to tell them what they should already know.

    The lower level Civil Servants are paid peanuts.


Advertisement
Advertisement