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Is individuality an overrated concept?

  • 16-04-2008 04:08PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭


    It's nice to live in a country, we're told, where you have the freedom to express yourself. And fair play to people who can break away from the herd and not be sheep, so to speak. Is this just lip-service, or do we really mean it?

    But Ireland, be it good or bad, is a very conformed country, and my impression is that most Irish like it that way. We're intimidated by what's different. Most boardsies are guilty of this to some point, which is one of the reasons why I'm starting this thread. Someone even had "death to Emos" or "Emo hater" in his signature at one point. But hey - emos (and other groups, for that matter: gays, goths, hippies, Grafton St buskers) are all just people who express themsleves, be it right or wrong, and should be respected for doing so.

    Should they be forced to conform to everyone elese's standards and fvck individulaity!? Or are Dubliners just anti-expression of indiviuality or freedom? Are we so scared that conformity is so important?

    Lots of questions - discuss!!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    Ya have to get a ****ing permit to "protest".

    Freedom my ****in ballix.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,654 ✭✭✭kev_s88


    yes


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,554 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    individual liberty would be awesome, but there's always ****ers who think they know how you oughta live and they tend to organise well.


  • Posts: 17,735 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian: You are all individuals.
    Crowd: We are all individuals.
    One guy: I'm not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭Jay P


    No, who the hell wants to be the same as everyone else?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    Individualism is relative to the communities that person is a part of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Live and let live.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Jigsaw


    Having the freedom to be individual is a very good thing. Choosing not to be individual does not make you a bad person.

    Some people tear the arse out of it and in every aspect of their life strive to be as weird and kooky as they possibly can be in a vain attempt to appear interesting. It is so very contrived.

    So it is neither underrated nor overrated imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Rob_l


    webster define individuality as
    1 a: total character peculiar to and distinguishing an individual from others b: personality
    2archaic : the quality or state of being indivisible
    3: separate or distinct existence
    4: individual, person

    everyone has individuality

    and emo's are surely only striving to appear like their peers nothing distinguishing about that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    i dont think its overated but then again ya cant piss and moan about the loss of societal norms such as looking out for your neighbours (or even KNOWING them) if whats being pushed is an individualist economy which unfortunetly is what we've got going on in this country at the moment

    im constantly amazed that people dont make the connection between the "im alright jack" ethos of the last 15yrs and the generation of scumbags that are murdering each other on the streets every week now.

    if all that matters is your own individual desires than thats what happens.

    its funny i dont consider myself a conformist, indeed i have a great loathing for the PC culture thats endemic in the media which seems to me to be just another form of dogma that they can adhere to without thinking i.e "black bloke gets mugged? MUST be racism !" and the like, and i am a bit of a loner but even i'll admit theres merit to a general societal norm that profers a sense of identity to the country. even if it is just getting rat arsed in a pub every week. it certainly beasts the fractured gated community mentality where no one interacts with anyone else


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭AngryBadger


    It's fantastic that we live in a country where people have the RIGHT to be individuals, choose their own destiny and all that, but there are two points to remember.

    1) Individuality is wasted on most people. The majority of people don't REALLY want to be individuals because being too much of an individual seperates you from the herd.

    2) Oftentimes being an individual DOES mean doing the same thing as everyone else. For example if I decide to go to college, I'm making the best decision for myself (i.e. being an individual), but I'm also making a choic which is identical to the choice made my thousands of other people, and yet I'm still being an individual.

    So it's difficult to know when people are truly being their own individual, or just another lemming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So. We like it.

    Why are we constantley verbally absuing everyone who's different then?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Subscribers Posts: 32,937 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Resistance is futile!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Definitely a humanities discussion here.

    the whole point is we're clashing ideas off eachother. If everyone thought the same then nobody would bother to change and we'd stop developing as people or even as a society.

    starpool even the Borg assimilated new ideas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭AngryBadger


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    So. We like it.
    Why are we constantley verbally absuing everyone who's different then?

    Basic survival.

    If you were an animal that had staked out a particular patch of hunting ground and a different beastie wandered onto your patch you'd attack them.

    nowadays the "patch" has changed, but the principal is the same. Notwithstanding a situation where friends a taking the mick out of each toher, generally when people abuse people different from themselves it's an effort to cement their own status within their peer community, and also to put down what they view as a potential (usually imagined) threat.

    See we always assume there's some kind of productive value system behind destructive behaviour, in fact there needn't be, and then again if you look at it from the perspective of the abuser it is productive, since it gives them more power within their own group.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭AngryBadger


    5starpool wrote: »
    Resistance is futile!!!!

    So's your face :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Dennis the Stone


    Emos are such conformists. A lot of people who like to harp on endlessly about their individuality are the biggest conformists of all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    It's fantastic that we live in a country where people have the RIGHT to be individuals, choose their own destiny and all that, but there are two points to remember.

    1) Individuality is wasted on most people. The majority of people don't REALLY want to be individuals because being too much of an individual seperates you from the herd.

    2) Oftentimes being an individual DOES mean doing the same thing as everyone else. For example if I decide to go to college, I'm making the best decision for myself (i.e. being an individual), but I'm also making a choic which is identical to the choice made my thousands of other people, and yet I'm still being an individual.

    So it's difficult to know when people are truly being their own individual, or just another lemming.


    part 2 reminds me of a conversation i had with a young one in the pub ages ago. she was maintaining that my clothing was conformist whereas i said "no im wearing what i want, its just that at the time it was what was considered trendy by other people". when fashion moved on i still wore what i liked but the trend of other people had moved in a different direction

    sometimes you can still be individual even though it may not look like it


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,554 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    kinda funny that a thread on individuality turns into a thread on fashion

    the 21st century, it's metrosexual.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Tago Mago wrote: »
    Emos are such conformists. A lot of people who like to harp on endlessly about their individuality are the biggest conformists of all.

    They are? Keep talking....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,554 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    I'm such a non comformist that I Will join your dance group.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    Mordeth wrote: »
    kinda funny that a thread on individuality turns into a thread on fashion

    the 21st century, it's metrosexual.

    just WATCH what happens when two young ones enter a room wearing the same dress :D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Bendihorse


    Live and let live is right, but i think one ceases to be individual in the broad minded sense of the word, if they actively work at being 'individual' so people preceive them to be just that.

    Individuals to me, are people that do what they do because they want to, not because they are trying to conform to some form or set of principles.

    People who spend 60mins of their time picking out clothes that DONT conform, are just as bad as the D4 head that spent over 60mins trying to achieve a 'bed head' look with her hair!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Dennis the Stone


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    They are? Keep talking....

    Well my little brother's friends are proud to call themselves 'emo'.
    They wear the same hoodies, listen to the exact same music [I'll keep back my opinion of this music] and watch the same films. They all turned 'emo' over the course of one Summer, so it was obviously a case of monkey see, monkey do. They think they're rebels but they are all spoiled brats


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Tago Mago wrote: »
    Well my little brother's friends are proud to call themselves 'emo'.
    They wear the same hoodies, listen to the exact same music [I'll keep back my opinion of this music] and watch the same films. They all turned 'emo' over the course of one Summer, so it was obviously a case of monkey see, monkey do. They think they're rebels but they are all spoiled brats

    could be worse; seen the kid 'rap' gangs and the txt spk on bebo these days? It makes me want to kill them all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭AngryBadger


    part 2 reminds me of a conversation i had with a young one in the pub ages ago. she was maintaining that my clothing was conformist whereas i said "no im wearing what i want, its just that at the time it was what was considered trendy by other people".

    And I'll bet that after you took her back to yours for pizza...extra sausage :D

    Dammit conn, leave some wimmins for the rest of us will ya ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Individuality isn't overrated, however, certain individuals are.
    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Why are we constantley verbally absuing everyone who's different then?

    Clue is in the question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Tago Mago wrote: »
    Well my little brother's friends are proud to call themselves 'emo'.
    They wear the same hoodies, listen to the exact same music [I'll keep back my opinion of this music] and watch the same films. They all turned 'emo' over the course of one Summer, so it was obviously a case of monkey see, monkey do. They think they're rebels but they are all spoiled brats

    Sounds more of a teenage thing tbh. I just used emos as an example.

    easrthhorse - The quesstion then, is: Why praise a country that embraces individuality and then abuse people who are individual?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭AngryBadger


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    easrthhorse - The quesstion then, is: Why praise a country that embraces individuality and then abuse people who are individual?

    If that's the question the answer's easy.

    A country that embraces individuality, embraces individual freedoms, so its people can follow whatever religion/sexuality/whatever that they choose to. So in a broad sense, from the perspective of the herd on the whole that's great, it allows a relatively cohesive operation of society.

    Getting down to the finer details, with smaller numbers of people and the picture's very different. If you put two people in a group, one of whom is dressed similarly to the rest of the group but unknown to them, the other has completely different attire to the group and is not known to them. Chap A (similar but unknown) will be viewed as a safer option than Chap B (different and unknown). Chap A can also further entrench himself within that group by abusing chap B since that in some warped way makes him even more "like" the group.

    I'm over-simplifying to make the point, but if you expand this to incorporate more realistic situations and motivations, it actually satisfies most scenarios.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Who is this Emo fella? He sounds a bit weird.


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