Tibet - Do you really care????

Ponster · 15-04-2008 06:43PM

Phil01 wrote: »

I'm sick of all this free tibet stuff too. Sure its bad what happened and not right, but please leave it seperate from the olympics.

Not a thread I really want to get involved in (due to it being in AH) but it's impossible to disassociate the Olympics Games with politics as for as long as I can remember both have always been mixed together.

I had started to list them all but wiki does a better job :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_in_the_Olympics

Trojan911 · 15-04-2008 06:51PM

No, couldn't give a monkeys. Nothing to do with me.........

MrJoeSoap · 15-04-2008 06:57PM

I care. But not enough to do anything at the moment. Maybe next month I'll feel differently.

AngryBadger · 15-04-2008 07:22PM

Phil01 wrote: »

I'm sick of all this free tibet stuff too. Sure its bad what happened and not right, but please leave it seperate from the olympics. The Olympics is about the athlete's. About your countries best against the world. I want to see the Olympics been about the athletes and the hard work they done to qualify for them, and not for it to be overshadowed by this tibet nonsence, that has no business been linked to the olympics.

Why exactly does it have no business being linked to the olympics?

Would you feel the same if this were a non-sporting event?

de5p0i1er · 15-04-2008 07:41PM

I'm sick of ppl going on about whatever cause they think they can change by jamming up the streets of Dublin on a Saturday. I lost all patience with these ppl after coming home from Holiday and getting on a bus to Dublin city centre from the airport only to have him stop 3 miles out and make me walk the rest of the way with my luggage because of an anti war protest.

Acid_Violet · 15-04-2008 08:20PM

stevoman wrote: »

Personally, i let the guilt of that rest on the shoulders of the man who owns and makes the people do the work.

So you profit from the system by investing in it at the top rung of the ladder (the consumer). The system works because people invest in it.

I just buy the runners etc, i dont put a gun to an asians head and get him to stitch them togtether for me. i work for the money to pay for them.

The expression/cliché 'part of the problem or part of the solution' has never seemed more true to me than now tbh....

Acid_Violet · 15-04-2008 08:22PM

stevoman wrote: »

We fought our own fight and didnt have the international community's krusty's standing outside every olympic body shouting and waving placards though!

But what's wrong with that? What's wrong with demonstrating your disgust at a problem? What's wrong with trying to make a positive difference, even if it's only because it's 'fashionable' or in a country far away? It's still doing a lot more good for the world than cynical people condescending do.

Acid_Violet · 15-04-2008 08:30PM

Rob_l wrote: »

The nazi's laughed at the IRA as a tiny crazy organisation because DeValera had them running scared during world war 2 because he was afriad that if they attacked britain, britain would attack us and we would not be able to defend ourselves.

All germans who landed here were interned we got nothing from the germans because during the nazi period of 1930 to 1940's we were an independent country and not fighting a war against england

Neutrality and all

In so far as I know, the Nazi's just wanted to use Ireland to invade England, and the deal was made with teh 'RA to do that till some fella got taken out by the British on his way back from Germany. The Nazis would've probably put the Irish at the bottom of the food chain if the plan worked and they won the war, considering in the Nazi list of races which detailed the 'genetically best' races (Nazis at the top, Jews at the bottom) the Irish were down pretty low too. I know I'll be asked for sources, the invasion dealy from a likely to be exaggerated source (daddy), the list from the best history teacher in Ireland.

Rob_l · 15-04-2008 08:38PM

Acid_Violet wrote: »

In so far as I know, the Nazi's just wanted to use Ireland to invade England, and the deal was made with teh 'RA to do that till some fella got taken out by the British on his way back from Germany.

the nazis did send a representative to make contact witht he IRA but what they found in the 1940's was a group splintered with its leaders all locked up and no real support from the public. When the Germans realised what the IRA was the decided that in no way was this option viable

DeValera had done such a good job of stopping the IRA the organisation was nearly extinct after world war 2 and didn't really become a force again until the 1960's when the major trouble they were involved in with britain began.

At least thats what I took from Tim pat coogans The IRA

Acid_Violet · 15-04-2008 08:42PM

Rob_l wrote: »

At least thats what I took from Tim pat coogans The IRA

Well excuse me Mr. Smaertipants:p

Rob_l · 15-04-2008 08:46PM

Acid_Violet wrote: »

Well excuse me Mr. Smaertipants

Ok i'll excuse you but only becasue you misspelled the enboldened word

15-04-2008 09:04PM

I care that people in the world are treated like animals, I even hate the way bastards are cruel to animals as well....

sooo.......

you gotta love them Chinese shouting "China" walking by me on Henry St on sat too :pac:

Kold · 15-04-2008 09:21PM

Some disgusting attitudes here.

Phil01 · 15-04-2008 10:14PM

AngryBadger wrote: »

Why exactly does it have no business being linked to the olympics?

Because its a sporting event about athlete's, its not the place for political demonstration. If i want to watch people demonstrate about tibet i would watch a free tibet rally then. And its the same for all events, not just the Olympics, in the European Swimming Championships in Holland a swimmer was stripped of his medal for a political tshirt.

AngryBadger wrote: »

Would you feel the same if this were a non-sporting event?

Yes i would, Why do people need to demonstrate at events, any demonstration should be kept separate away from events which have nothing to do with that demonstration. By demonstrating at the Olympics your just going to p*ss ppl off about tibet, and they will end up not giving a crap about tibet, of course maybe it would have the opposite affect for some ppl.

But my opinion is anyways that i dont want to hear about tibet while im watching the Olympics, even though i know i will be.

I'm not saying i dont care about the Tibetans, im just saying i dont want to see it in the Olympics or overshadow it.

beautiation · 15-04-2008 10:27PM

I don't think there's much of a parallel between Tibet under China and how Ireland was under Britain to be honest. Maybe if the British hadn't let us play GAA or express our culture in any way while they were in charge, or had left Ireland totally underdeveloped and messed up, or had treated us as second class citizens with few human rights, then maybe it would be valid (I know they were far from perfect in these regards, but they weren't that bad). If the Brits had ruled us with the iron fist China rules Tibet with, we'd never have been able to throw them off IMO. So, I don't think it's right for us to take this insular "sure, we managed it on our own, didn't we?" attitude. I hope this olympics gets absolutely destroyed by this issue, and that's as a big sports fan. Of course, I'd rather the international community doing something that would hurt them as well as a statement of intent, like cutting trade with China.

AngryBadger · 15-04-2008 10:27PM

I don't understand that mentality. If people want to highlight a cause of course they're going to use any event that gives them maximum exposure. Sure why bother demonstrating at all if no-one's watching you? But I suppose that's your whole point really isn't it. You don't want to be inconvenienced with the situation in the world as long as it doesn't affect you directly.

Wonderful.

Ivan · 15-04-2008 10:32PM

Its times like this I really hate people. Thats right, all 34 of you. You know who you are.

kowloon · 15-04-2008 10:43PM

Tibetans might not be any better off under a religious dictatorship than under the Chinese according to my mate.
Not sure if I agree, don't know much about it.

As for Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRA_Abwehr_World_War_II

The Reich did plan to possibly invade Ireland under Fall Grun II.

The Brits would have sent troops south to relieve the Irish in the case of Invasion, not invaded us first.

phantom_lord · 16-04-2008 12:06AM

i don't give a ****. all those people protesting in ireland should go get jobs or something. as if they make one iota of a difference.

phantom_lord · 16-04-2008 12:14AM

Ivan wrote: »

Its times like this I really hate people. Thats right, all 34 of you. You know who you are.

boo hoo.

AARRRGH · 16-04-2008 12:15AM

Jigsaw wrote: »

In general I hate protestors.

I know a lot of these protesters you speak of.

40% of them are looney's who simply want to protest. 40% are driven by ego (they like people to think they care and delight in telling you the story about how the volunteered in "Palestine".) The final 10% are decent folk.

To answer the original question: Tibet is too trendy for me.

Cianos · 16-04-2008 12:31AM

dublindude wrote: »

I know a lot of these protesters you speak of.

40% of them are looney's who simply want to protest. 40% are driven by ego (they like people to think they care and delight in telling you the story about how the volunteered in "Palestine".) The final 10% are decent folk.

To answer the original question: Tibet is too trendy for me.

100% of them are making some kind of difference, whereas you're just taking time to moan about people who are trying to make a positive change. wtf like? And 40+40+10=90 by the way.

The attitudes shown in the thread are disturbing. I would have thought Irish people would understand the Tibet position more than anyone and be proud of that fact and support a struggle against occupation and the erasing of ones culture. I'm not saying you should be out on the streets protesting, but to actively say you don't care and everyone shouldn't care is bollox.

Now that we have things good all you want to do is forget about the wider world and sit on your arse and watch your sports uninterrupted.

Trojan911 · 16-04-2008 12:38AM

Cianos wrote: »

but to actively say you don't care and everyone shouldn't care is bollox.

That is your opinion.... So respect ours.

AARRRGH · 16-04-2008 12:39AM

Cianos wrote: »

100% of them are making some kind of difference, whereas you're just taking time to moan about people who are trying to make a positive change.

You think the Chinese give two ****s about a bunch of protestors in Ireland?

I never said they were all dopes, most of them are though.

Cianos wrote: »

wtf like? And 40+40+10=90 by the way.

Oops, my bad.

Lirange · 16-04-2008 12:39AM

I don't have a problem with people standing up for a cause.

But there's a difference between "standing up" for something and effecting change. Too many of these people are just complete fakes.

The cold hard raw unadulterated reality of the Tibet issue is that pretty much all of the recent global protests are quite unlikely to affect the long term future of Tibet in any way. There will be plenty of self-righteous people that will walk away with a sanctimonious sense of moral self worth. There are some that have genuine compassion for others but too many are just in it to self-glorify and **** their conscience. These tend to be the types that look only to "lash out demonstrations" that draw publicity. Exposure can create desirable results in some instances. But in this case it will not.

There are no easy answers to the Tibet issue. China will not respond to foreign demonstrations, threats, or reproach. Their positions will only grow more entrenched and defiant. This has been the track record. The only way to eventually initiate change or at least improve the situation is to engage China. Hopefully the country gradually opens up and momentum builds for reforms. If it happens at all it will be slowly.

El Weirdo · 16-04-2008 12:43AM

kowloon wrote: »

Tibetans might not be any better off under a religious dictatorship than under the Chinese according to my mate.

ROFLMAO. Oh, alright then.... I can see it now:

Protester No.1:"Its alright lads! We may as well go home!"
Protester No.2, No.3....No.999, No.1000(In unison):"What?!"
Protester No.1:"Yeah, there's no point in all this protesting mularkey."
Protester No.2, No.3....No.999, No.1000(In unison):"Why?"
Protester No.1:"Erm yeah... This geezers' mate reckons Tibet'd be worse if they were left alone by China."
Protester No.2, No.3....No.999, No.1000(In unison):"Oh. Alright then."

Kold · 16-04-2008 12:49AM

Trojan911 wrote: »

That is your opinion.... So respect ours.

I have no respect for self centred people keen to look the other way.

"The road to Auschwitz was paved with apathy"

AARRRGH · 16-04-2008 12:52AM

Kold wrote: »

I have no respect for self centred people keen to look the other way.

Everyone is self centred to an extent, and we all look the other way on a daily basis.

Also, I care about things you don't care about, and vice versa.

Kold wrote: »

"The road to Auschwitz was paved with apathy"

You can't compare the situation in Tibet with the Nazis. I get your point though.

The reason I don't have much time for the Tibet thing is because I know we can't change anything. The Irish Government does not give a **** either.

Cianos · 16-04-2008 12:55AM

dublindude wrote: »

You think the Chinese give two ****s about a bunch of protestors in Ireland?

Yes, the Chinese definitely do care...that's the whole point! If people are even protesting in Ireland, then it means it's become a global issue. How is that not blatantly obvious?

The Olympics have given Tibet international press and made it an issue that everyone has become aware of. I didn't really know about what was going on over there, and now I do. And I presume that's the same for many people.

The pressure is on China now to respond in a way that will improve their international image. If it even makes things marginally better for people in Tibet then something has been achieved.

It might mean a slight inconvenience for people over here, but for people in Tibet it could be massive life changing positive differences that you would probably appreciate if you were alive living in Ireland only 100 years ago.

Kold · 16-04-2008 12:56AM

I'm not saying drop everything, move to Tibet and spearhead their liberation, there are a lot of worthy causes. I'm just saying that this 'don't care' attitude appalls me.

Tibet - Do you really care????

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