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What cliches and stereotypes do you hate

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Comments

  • #32
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Livvie wrote: »
    Unfortunately, no. I hope to get over this year.

    I had a major compliment paid to me by someone who read the novel so far..and she showed her Irish mum who said she would have assumed I was Irish.

    I think the help I've had from here has contributed a lot to that. :)

    Not to burst your bubble (as I am sure it is good as long as cliche's are avoided) but Irish women have a habit of telling everyone that (insert creative thing) is fantastic.

    May I ask how important is the name "Luke" to you? I find it to be very associative with Irish-American Catholics who name chldren after the Gospels. In my opinion not a great name for a protagonist who is Irish born and bred. I advise something more obscure (Please not John.)


    Travellers
    If you are writing about travellers then DO NOT have them totally illiterate. Nowadays most of the younger generation have a good handle on reading and writing.

    Do not have travellers speaking "Cant" I live in an area of 10.000 people with around 500 travellers and I have never heard Cant being spoken.

    Many Travellers are now settled in houses provided by the City Councils so incorporate that unless you really want the travellers to be travellers.

    Oh and for describtions of travellers, I have noticed most travellers have dark hair. (i.e. Black/Brown) That may be just my area considering almost all of the travellers are related but It is from my observation.


  • #33
    cailin_donn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 133 ✭✭cailin_donn


    skateing dragon wrote: »
    Basically, if you want to avoid Irish cliches, avoid all you see in Hollywood Movies with Irish Characters.

    I have not yet seen an American Movie with an "irish" character who sounds, looks or acts Irish.

    The biggest pitfall is ..... Accent.
    In every movie we sound Scottish, Welsh or "Loike a fermer from da cuntri boi".

    I have never once heard any Irish person use the phrase "Top of the Morning" , the word "boi" or any of those cliche phrases.

    Also is your character from The City? eg Dublin or from the country eg Cork or Wexford (I know people who live there may not consider that the country but excuse me as I am from Dublin so we usually do, sorry). Becuase lingo from the country is different to the city. Extremely different sometimes.

    Also I only now about 3 people with "Irish" names that you see in Movies, such as Oision, Paddy, Patrick, Seamus or any of those typically cliche names.

    And also in Movies or Books an Irish character is either a drunk, thug or farmer. Please broaden your scope and characterisation because this is extremely cliche and just irritating.

    Hope that helps.

    The Accent/ Words... Everything depends on where your character is from, because although skateing dragon said that (s)he never heard anyone say "top of the morning to ye" i hear a lot of customers at work say it when theyre leaving.

    Also we say "boy" a lot. It sounds more like "by" though. Such as "I would, boy!" And I'm not writing from the perspective of a middle aged/older woman,
    I'm talking about the "bebo generation" (15-17 years olds on average)

    Also, I think Bebo is worth mentioning in your book, as it's the most visited site in Ireland

    And FYI i know PLENTY of people name pat, paddy, john, luke, mark, sean, seamus etc


  • #34
    Livvie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Livvie


    minidazzler wrote: »
    Not to burst your bubble (as I am sure it is good as long as cliche's are avoided) but Irish women have a habit of telling everyone that (insert creative thing) is fantastic.

    May I ask how important is the name "Luke" to you? I find it to be very associative with Irish-American Catholics who name chldren after the Gospels. In my opinion not a great name for a protagonist who is Irish born and bred. I advise something more obscure (Please not John.)


    Travellers
    If you are writing about travellers then DO NOT have them totally illiterate. Nowadays most of the younger generation have a good handle on reading and writing.

    Do not have travellers speaking "Cant" I live in an area of 10.000 people with around 500 travellers and I have never heard Cant being spoken.

    Many Travellers are now settled in houses provided by the City Councils so incorporate that unless you really want the travellers to be travellers.

    Oh and for describtions of travellers, I have noticed most travellers have dark hair. (i.e. Black/Brown) That may be just my area considering almost all of the travellers are related but It is from my observation.

    "Luke" just seemed right. He's half English though raised in Ireland.

    Our Traveller is eloquent and likes books. He has dark hair, blue eyes.

    And whilst encouragement is welcome, we don't put too much importance in it - the people we have to impress are agents.

    Thanks for your help. If we get published, I'll have to either get all your names, or put your message board identities in the credits. :)


  • #35
    TravelJunkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭TravelJunkie


    elshambo wrote: »
    Move here for 6 weeks or so!
    Cant afford that? a few trips to the place the son/wife is supposed to be from
    flights are cheap.

    "The truth about the Irish" by Terry Eagleton dispells a few myths and is a decent read

    As for the accent, only call it a lilt if it is a lilt, not many of then about outside of 50's movies starring yanks, had a woman from enniskillen describe my accent as lilting(however its spelt), i broke my h*le laughing
    Estranged son speaking to an english dad, hatefull might just about cover it esp if son is from munster lol
    Depending on how estranged the kid would probably have a slightly english accent anyhu?
    most irish kids sound like the were born about 1000 miles out to sea in the direction of america

    As for the redhead, dont use that as a device to say she has a temper, thats been done to death

    Dont do an eastenders on it or you may be on the end of an Irish Fatwa
    & whatever you do, do not watch Irish soaps!!!!!

    er thats it

    I agree, coming to Ireland is essential if you are to put your mind at ease.

    By the way, does anyone think that its not important if the character has an accent or not, but rather that it so happens to be the wrong accent in relation to the circumstances of the character?
    Eg. if the character is a dubliner and speaks with a cork accent (if you spell phonetically) wouldn't a prospective dubliner reading it think - what??? And vice versa?

    Maybe avoid the whole thing altogether and just write in proper grammatical english.. a European/American/Englishman reading the book won't read the irish accent, they'll be reading it in whatever accent their own is anyway.


  • #36
    Livvie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Livvie


    I'm sorry - I missed these posts.
    elshambo wrote: »

    Move here for 6 weeks or so!
    Cant afford that? a few trips to the place the son/wife is supposed to be from
    flights are cheap.

    I'm hoping to do that in the summer. Having a phobia about flying doesn't help though!

    "The truth about the Irish" by Terry Eagleton dispells a few myths and is a decent read Thanks - I'll look it up.

    As for the accent, only call it a lilt if it is a lilt, not many of then about outside of 50's movies starring yanks, had a woman from enniskillen describe my accent as lilting(however its spelt), i broke my h*le laughing :)

    Estranged son speaking to an english dad, hatefull might just about cover it esp if son is from munster lol It's certainly hateful to begin with. :)

    Depending on how estranged the kid would probably have a slightly english accent anyhu? No, he's never been out of Ireland.


    As for the redhead, dont use that as a device to say she has a temper, thats been done to death She's spirited but that has nothing to do with her hair.

    Dont do an eastenders on it or you may be on the end of an Irish Fatwa
    & whatever you do, do not watch Irish soaps!!!!! Not sure what you mean by doing an Eastenders?

    er thats it

    elshambo wrote: »
    And theres more...
    The irish traveller council have a web site, cant remember if i can put up links or not so just google it, they would probably help or have books you could read Thanks again

    You WILL go into sterotype if writing about travellers, everyone does, We've tried to give them different personalities and different attitudes.

    see the movie "Strength and Honour" its supposed to be awful(havent seen it because i used to know the director and think its best i dont) if you dont know travellers dont make it a huge part of the story just a part of the character, there are bits (as with every culture) that pavee lackeen would not cover but thats not for the likes of here

    I don't think I've come across that one, so will check it out.

    Good luck! Thank you - and thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.


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  • #37
    elshambo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭elshambo


    Didnt see it myself as i dont watch soaps but basically
    Eastenders did a show in Dublin where they had animals walking the streets, irish givin it the begorrah bit and was so basically offensive to the Irish that the irish goverment complained to the British Goverment(as far as i remember)

    Put it this way, if the Irish majority had a different skin colour the eastender writers/producers would have ended up on race relations charges for the shows they did from Ireland:eek:

    It was so bad that Yanks would probably have loved it:D

    btw i said to watch "Strength and Honour" because it is apparently just one sterotype after another

    "Depending on how estranged the kid would probably have a slightly english accent anyhu? No, he's never been out of Ireland."
    English accent is stronger so if he spent time with father as child would probably pick some of it up not that that really matters in a book


  • #38
    Livvie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Livvie


    elshambo wrote: »
    Didnt see it myself as i dont watch soaps but basically
    Eastenders did a show in Dublin where they had animals walking the streets, irish givin it the begorrah bit and was so basically offensive to the Irish that the irish goverment complained to the British Goverment(as far as i remember)

    Put it this way, if the Irish majority had a different skin colour the eastender writers/producers would have ended up on race relations charges for the shows they did from Ireland:eek:

    It was so bad that Yanks would probably have loved it:D

    btw i said to watch "Strength and Honour" because it is apparently just one sterotype after another


    I think I might have seen it - if it's from several years ago when Pauline Fowler discovered she had Irish relations or something. It was dire! I felt embarrassed by it. It's the same when American movie makers try to make out that over here we all sound like Dick Van Dyke. You don't know whether to feel insulted or to laugh at the sheer stupidity of it, but I can see that it's likely to more offensive than anything else.

    And didn't George Bush say top of the mornin' to Bertie Aherne?


  • #39
    nicowa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭nicowa


    Livvie wrote: »

    And didn't George Bush say top of the mornin' to Bertie Aherne?

    Probably did!

    The thing is that Irish have really become more sohpisticated in the last ten years than anything before (probably like a lot of places) and with the huge influx of American and British tv alot of Irish slang has died out. You do still get places where they do have thick 'culchie' accents. Trust me on this, I went to school with them. But like you said earlier, most counties/regions do have a soft accent compared to anything (or most) in England - I was working there last year and it really showed.


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