Chivalry-Why do women expect it while at the same time wanting to be equal with men?

Bendihorse · 11-04-2008 05:13PM

Raekwon wrote: »

It works both ways. If women don't have the decency to acknowledge a kind gesture from the opposite sex then they have nothing to really complain about.

Nonsense. It has nothing to do with people getting lazy and not bothering to make an effort it is mainly down to the evolution of women in society. You now have these *'high power' business woman types who are too concerned about their own lives to even take notice of anything that is happening around them. Any bloke who has opened a door with a smile just to be greeted back with a sarcastic lip curled side-ways glance will know what I mean.

*in their own small minds anyway.

I dont believe - to quote yourself "high powered business women" in general would do that to anyone, otherwise she wouldn't be in business. Maybe you have an inferiority complex? Like i said, i treat others (regardless of sex) as i would like to be treated myself. Manners is about manners, not wimmens lib. Holding the door as someone previously said is not about chivalry.

@ Irish CRX, just because a man has good manners doesn't mean that hes not a complete fcuker behind it all and also vice versa, the guy im with at the mo has no real finesse when it comes to manners, cant use a fork unless he holds it like a shovel, but i still realise hes a good person, he was just never shown the right way to do it. I said i would be attracted to a man that had good manners (to both sexes) but its not essential.

AngryBadger · 11-04-2008 05:16PM

djpbarry wrote: »

To be honest, if I see someone approaching a door, struggling with a bag or whatever, I'll open the door for them, irrespective of age, sex, able-bodied or not, whatever.

+1

Have to say though, my experience is that women are generally far more ignorant than guys.

Usually if I wind up holding a door for a guy behind me, or stepping out of the way or whatever they'll say thanks, women generally just ignore you and swan past. If I'm ordering a drink in a bar it's rare that another guy will try to muscle past me to the counter, but it's VERY common for women to do this.

Have to throw this story out to any woman who bemoans about the loss of chivalry. Had just gotten off a bus to crok from waterford one saturday around 8/9pm I think it was. Walking doen the street next to Hill Billys (sorry can't think of the name), out of the corner of my eye I thought I noticed two women struggling, did a double-take and there were two women, one of whom was drunk out of her mind, and the other of which was trying to hold her up.

So I stopped and asked if she needed a hand, she handed me whatever stuff she had, and I draped her friends hand over my shoulder, carried her to a taxi, and handed her stuff back, at which point she just turned away and got into the taxi.

A "Thank you" would have been nice is all I'm saying.

Leeby · 11-04-2008 05:18PM

When you say hold the door open do you mean...

Walk up to the door, open it, and wait where you are while the woman walks through

or

Walk through the door and then stand there holding it open for her.

I'd always expect someone to hold the door so it doesn't slam in my face behind them, and I'd do the same for anyone else.

I'd never expect someone to open it for me and stand on my side of it while I walk through. There is one lad in work that does it all the time, I always thank him, but I never expect it from him.

The Mighty Ken · 11-04-2008 05:18PM

Just because there are a lot of aggressive, rude bitches out there in society doesn't necessarily mean there's any point in compromising your chivalry. Some women will respond to a man opening the door with a smile and a 'thank you' and others will ignore you completely or look at you like you just raped them.

The question is: who are you opening the door for? Him/her or you? I get a sense of satisfaction being a mannerly individual even if it's not appreciated. If the person you're opening a door for, helping with his/her bag, etc. doesn't have the common decency to acknowledge it then that reflects badly on them, not you. I encounter an enormous number of incredibly rude people in Dublin every day (mostly women, I'm very sad to say) but I don't get offended or take it personally. I actually just feel a bit embarrassed and sorry for them. Too much celebrity culture, Gordon Ramsay and reality TV have turned these people into disgusting pigs really.

Bendihorse · 11-04-2008 05:19PM

AngryBadger wrote: »

+1

Have to throw this story out to any woman who bemoans about the loss of chivalry. Had just gotten off a bus to crok from waterford one saturday around 8/9pm I think it was. Walking doen the street next to Hill Billys (sorry can't think of the name), out of the corner of my eye I thought I noticed two women struggling, did a double-take and there were two women, one of whom was drunk out of her mind, and the other of which was trying to hold her up.

So I stopped and asked if she needed a hand, she handed me whatever stuff she had, and I draped her friends hand over my shoulder, carried her to a taxi, and handed her stuff back, at which point she just turned away and got into the taxi.

A "Thank you" would have been nice is all I'm saying.

Id have brought you home for coffee to say thanks, or at least invited ya

Bendihorse · 11-04-2008 05:24PM

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Just because there are a lot of aggressive, rude bitches out there in society doesn't necessarily mean there's any point in compromising your chivalry. Some women will respond to a man opening the door with a smile and a 'thank you' and others will ignore you completely or look at you like you just raped them.

The question is: who are you opening the door for? Him/her or you? I get a sense of satisfaction being a mannerly individual even if it's not appreciated. If the person you're opening a door for, helping with his/her bag, etc. doesn't have the common decency to acknowledge it then that reflects badly on them, not you. I encounter an enormous number of incredibly rude people in Dublin every day (mostly women, I'm very sad to say) but I don't get offended or take it personally. I actually just feel a bit embarrassed and sorry for them. Too much celebrity culture, Gordon Ramsay and reality TV have turned these people into disgusting pigs really.

Well said, My sentiments exactly. Just because someone else lets themself down doesn't mean you should too. Thankfully my parents thought me how to have manners when i was a kid and both my father and mother led with great example. I feel priviledged that i know how to conduct myself in certain situations because they took the time to show me. Good manners only ever reflects well on you, even if it is not appreceiated by the company/recipiant.

Naos · 11-04-2008 05:24PM

Odd. I do and thought others did this anyway...

It was instilled into me by the mother, never letting her carry shopping bags, ladies first, walk the girl home etc.

I've a little sister and if I seen a guy not doing these type of things, I'd be very unimpressed.

djpbarry · 11-04-2008 05:29PM

AngryBadger wrote: »

If I'm ordering a drink in a bar it's rare that another guy will try to muscle past me to the counter, but it's VERY common for women to do this.

I hate to say it, but you're right and it drives me ****ing mad.

Another one; women who think they have every right to use the men's toilets whenever they feel like it.

Bendihorse · 11-04-2008 05:32PM

djpbarry wrote: »

Another one; women who think they have every right to use the men's toilets whenever they feel like it.

I dont think these types would fall into the lady category

Urrgh - smelly boys toilets

Jigsaw · 11-04-2008 06:09PM

This is so f**king true. The number of times I am clearly waiting at a bar for a drink and some drunken bint who thinks she is a supermodel walks up and steps right in front of you and orders. Of course you say nothing because you don't want her to cause a scene which will attract the attention of a bouncer who will obviously side with the girl or else some meathead boyfriend.

A bloke will always come to the bar and if noticed at the bar before me would look round and say, "are you getting already mate?"

I will always practice chivalry if I sense it is going to improve my odds of obtaining my orifice.

Wertz · 11-04-2008 06:19PM

Bendihorse wrote: »

Its nice to be nice lads, its not about wimmens lib or equal rights. If we all lose our manners then the world would not be a very nice place to live. I hold the door for fellow human beings regardless of sex...

Only bit of sense posted so far. I don't pick and choose who to hold the door open for, let out into traffic or whatever other random act of kindness is applicable...if I'm in the position where I can do someone a turn I will, regardless of sex/age/race.
I'm sorry to burst yer bubbles folks but it's highly unlikely the person you like the look of that you decided to do some random favour for in public is going to turn around and invite you into the nearest public cubicle for a quickie...if that's your only motivation for being "kind" or "chivalrous" then you're wasting your time IMO...

[edit] Just read some more of the above replies...the one about women who think they own serving rights at the bar is spot on....perhaps as much the fault of alcohol as the ladies in question though...

Tigger · 11-04-2008 06:27PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well put it this way, if she looks like a pleasant girl who might flash me a smile after I've held the door then I'll do it.

as in if shes hot

If she's a grumpy oul heffer who wouldn't give you the time of day then I won't. .

as in if she's not hot

It's the women that dictate how they're treated by me

its how they look it seems

which is grand but causes feminists

FruitLover · 11-04-2008 06:28PM

Holding a door open for someone, regardless of gender = manners.
Interestingly, 'chivalry' didn't always have the connotations of a man treating a woman differently just because she doesn't have a wiener, I believe it originally meant politeness/manners in general.

Naos wrote: »

It was instilled into me by the mother, never letting her carry shopping bags, ladies first, walk the girl home etc.

Your mother's a sexist (not her fault I suppose, just a product of a different era)

DetectivFoxtrot · 11-04-2008 07:16PM

FruitLover wrote: »

Holding a door open for someone, regardless of gender = manners.
Interestingly, 'chivalry' didn't always have the connotations of a man treating a woman differently just because she doesn't have a wiener, I believe it originally meant politeness/manners in general.

+1

I agree too, chivalry is about manners, for both sexes. I alway hold doors open for men, and eqally if they do it for me I always say thanks, thought most people were like that tbh.

The whole notion of being chivalrous to a woman merely because she is a woman is dead and gone imo, and it certainly is not expected by most women I know (well women under 60 anyway)

St Bill · 11-04-2008 07:43PM

Jigsaw wrote: »

This is so f**king true. The number of times I am clearly waiting at a bar for a drink and some drunken bint who thinks she is a supermodel walks up and steps right in front of you and orders. Of course you say nothing because you don't want her to cause a scene which will attract the attention of a bouncer who will obviously side with the girl or else some meathead boyfriend.

You're too afraid to stand up for yourself, and so of course it's going to be the other person's fault.

That happens to me too.....both men and women do that. I usually politely say 'Excuse me, I was here first' and then order my drinks (especially if I've been waiting a while and it's quite obvious to the other person i.e. they're not plastered and spoiling for an argument).

Toto Wolfcastle · 11-04-2008 07:43PM

I open doors and hold doors open for anyone who needs it. I even hold the door open for the horrible horrible woman I work with who never smiles or says thanks.

And I always smile and say thanks when someone does something like that for me, but I don't expect it. As long as someone doesn't slam the door in my face it's fine.

gcgirl · 11-04-2008 07:49PM

Jigsaw wrote: »

This is so f**king true. The number of times I am clearly waiting at a bar for a drink and some drunken bint who thinks she is a supermodel walks up and steps right in front of you and orders. Of course you say nothing because you don't want her to cause a scene which will attract the attention of a bouncer who will obviously side with the girl or else some meathead boyfriend.

A bloke will always come to the bar and if noticed at the bar before me would look round and say, "are you getting already mate?"

I will always practice chivalry if I sense it is going to improve my odds of obtaining my orifice.

You say '' sorry but join the freaking que'' cos thats what i 'd say!!

Wibbs · 11-04-2008 07:49PM

I do it for me, more than them tbh. As the old story goes; man holds door open for woman, woman looks at him and says "Are you doing that because I'm a lady?", Man replies, "No madam, I'm doing it because I'm a gentleman".

Seraphina · 11-04-2008 07:53PM

i get doors held open for me all the time, i must be hot!

i will always smile and say thanks when doors are opened or held for me, and likewise, if i get to the door first i'll always hold it for those behind or coming towards me.

Leeby · 11-04-2008 07:54PM

Can someone PLEASE tell me, if you're talking about walking through a door and holding it open behind you, or if you mean opening a door for someone and waiting for them to walk through before you?

AngryBadger · 11-04-2008 08:05PM

St Bill wrote: »

You're too afraid to stand up for yourself, and so of course it's going to be the other person's fault.

Any time I try to correct a woman on anything it leads to a full blown row.

I'm absolutely willing to concede that I must be at least a little bit responsible for this, but as far as I'm concerned if a woman pushes ahead of me in the queue I can
a) Tell/ask her to get back in line, which will guarantee me a row, maybe a fit of crying, or hey maybe she'll decide to get her boyfriend to square up to me

or

b) I can just grin and bear it knowing that I'm not back up here for another 3 rounds, by which time I'll be too ****ed to care.

MLE · 11-04-2008 08:07PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I do it for me, more than them tbh. As the old story goes; man holds door open for woman, woman looks at him and says "Are you doing that because I'm a lady?", Man replies, "No madam, I'm doing it because I'm a gentleman".

+1

From a female point of view, I don't think the behaviour is expected, but it is appreciated. I hold doors for other people, men and women, and I don't view myself as chivalrous but just see it as displaying common courtesy.

Like Wibbs said it shows more about the person who displays the behaviour then the receiver.

It does annoy me though when Im bringing my little girl to playschool and have the baby in the buggy and someone (male or female - but as it happens mainly male) walks in in front of me and lets the big 'heavy' door thats on a ramp slam behind them. So then I have to pretend Im rambo and Try and hold onto the buggy on the ramp with one hand, open and hold the big (did I already say heavy:) ) door open with the other hand while ushering in my 3 year old and then getting the buggy in.

So Op Im not pregant or old and you dont know me * so does that mean that you would happily let the door slam on me?

* My hottness is a matter of opinion

EamonnKeane · 11-04-2008 08:11PM

[QUOTE=Wertz;55642989Just read some more of the above replies...the one about women who think they own serving rights at the bar is spot on....perhaps as much the fault of alcohol as the ladies in question though...[/QUOTE] Yes, because no-one drunk is responsible for their actions:pac

Mirror wrote: »

Chivalry is an overhang from times long forgotten. Now I'm all for it, but when it was truly in force, we were expected to be chivalrous. The flip side of that though, was that women were expected to do what they were fuckin told.

Who is this "we"? You weren't alive in the times referred to.

FruitLover wrote: »

Your mother's a sexist (not her fault I suppose, just a product of a different era)

Yes, she is imprisoned in a mind cruelly twisted by old, and therefore wrong, beliefs. (Also, "sexist" is not a noun)

Chunky Monkey · 11-04-2008 08:24PM

Good manners from both sexes is good enough for me. Such as opening the door and letting someone on the other side pass through first regardless of whether they're male or female.

Based on my own experiences I don't think chivalry is entirely 'dead' in Ireland. It's pretty rare that someone doesn't hold open the door if you're right behind them. And there's a lot of people (of both sexes) who look behind to make sure they're not slamming the door in someone's face.

Wertz · 11-04-2008 10:28PM

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Yes, because no-one drunk is responsible for their actions :pac:

The ladies in question who would do this would probably do it sober as well....but the drink makes them a lot more likely to, and more likely to argue about it...as for standing up to them (whoever suggested that)...you've obviously not been out on the piss in Jigsaw's part of the country. Never come between a nordie girl and her next drink...

St Bill · 11-04-2008 10:32PM

AngryBadger wrote: »

Any time I try to correct a woman on anything it leads to a full blown row.

I'm absolutely willing to concede that I must be at least a little bit responsible for this, but as far as I'm concerned if a woman pushes ahead of me in the queue I can
a) Tell/ask her to get back in line, which will guarantee me a row, maybe a fit of crying, or hey maybe she'll decide to get her boyfriend to square up to me

or

b) I can just grin and bear it knowing that I'm not back up here for another 3 rounds, by which time I'll be too ****ed to care.

If a person is that twisted to get into a row over a place at the bar, well then he/she is inviting a lot of trouble into his/her life. What goes around, comes around and all that other stuff.
So yeah your best bet is to just grin and bear it in those situations. You're better off in the long run (even though, at the time, you might feel like throttling someone!)

Dave! · 11-04-2008 11:13PM

When it comes to holding the door, etc., I don't discriminate based on sex. It just depends on the scenario.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-04-2008 11:19PM

I always hold open doors if there's someone behind me but if it's a woman behind me it's a rare rare occurance that I get thanked. although if they are wearing a short skirt or a tight top, that's really thanks enough.

MizzLolly · 11-04-2008 11:26PM

Burnt Toast wrote: »

I'd hold the door open if the chick was hot..

mr kr0nik wrote: »

Only if they're hot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Tis all about the hotness.

Awwwwwwwww...... Guys often open the door for me!!

Does that mean I'm hot? I'd never have imagined that was the reason, I always thought it was my petiteness and they took pity on me!!

Really though, fair enough on the equality and all that but I always hold the door open for people, men and women. I really like when it's done for me. It just feels degrading when a door is swung back in you face.

Nothing attracts me more to a man than a bit of 'chivalry'. Likewise, if he treats me well, I of course will treat him ...erm... (in the female form of chivalry)

Dave! · 11-04-2008 11:31PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

Awwwwwwwww...... Guys often open the door for me!! Does that mean I'm hot? I'd never have imagined that was the reason, I always thought it was my petiteness and they took pity on me!!

PM me pics and I'll tell you the answer

Chivalry-Why do women expect it while at the same time wanting to be equal with men?

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