How important is a radon barrier?

outsidethe65 · 30-04-2007 12:20PM #1

Hi all,

I recently inherited an old house and I am looking into revonating it. There was no radon barrier in the house. How important is it to have one? Will it be a big/ expensive job to put one in? I live in west cork.

Any advise?

Cheers,
Ted.

muffler · 30-04-2007 02:19PM

Details here

twenty8 · 30-04-2007 05:20PM

outsidethe65 wrote:

Hi all,

I recently inherited an old house and I am looking into revonating it. There was no radon barrier in the house. How important is it to have one? Will it be a big/ expensive job to put one in? I live in west cork.

Any advise?

Cheers,
Ted.

Honestly - unless you have a trained radon barrier fitter I would skip it. A lot of radon barriers are not installed properly. When you have completed your home make sure that you put radon detectors in - that way you can be sure if you have radon or not. If you have you will have to activate your sumps etc. Talk to the RPII about that.

anthony55 · 30-04-2007 09:29PM

Do the Radon test first before you start the renovation if possible, as you can factor in the costs of the potential remedy you may have to employ. Depending on the test result you might want to fit a sump, it may be better to do this rather than fitting a barrier to an existing structure, due to all the difficulties ensuring a good seal.

twenty8 · 03-05-2007 03:13PM

anthony55 wrote:

Do the Radon test first before you start the renovation if possible, as you can factor in the costs of the potential remedy you may have to employ. Depending on the test result you might want to fit a sump, it may be better to do this rather than fitting a barrier to an existing structure, due to all the difficulties ensuring a good seal.

Sorry - but there is actually no point in doing a radon test before you start construction. You have no idea what you might disturb when you renovate and therefore any test could be invalid. I suggest that you put the sump in anyway - you will never know it is there unless you need it.

Tor · 03-05-2007 10:36PM

as an aside, we live in an old house now renovated - the living room where one of the testers was situated is in the 'old' block & concrete part of the house and the second tester was in our bedroom, in the totally new timber framed part of the house.

The reading for the living room was 99 and only 34 for the bedroom.
(still well under the levels thankfully)

AidoCQS · 07-05-2007 09:24PM

As I understand it RADON Barriers, sump's & pipes are purely preventitive. You may never need them. The problem is that you wont figure that out untill the house is built and at that point remediation is very cost prohibitive.

paulocon · 14-06-2007 12:52PM

http://selfbuildinireland.com/article.php?category=Radon

arghh · 15-06-2007 10:38AM

I installed radon barrier and sump underneath the slab but between installing the steel and leveling etc there was alot of holes in the radon barrier. It could not be saved however one tried to do it. It is a flaw in the way houses are constructed. Another point (I am not suggesting not to install radon barrier) would gas like water want the easier way to exit and when it hits the concrete slab would go out through the soil instead of trying to penetrate concrete, just a thought.

twenty8 · 15-06-2007 04:12PM

arghh wrote:

I installed radon barrier and sump underneath the slab but between installing the steel and leveling etc there was alot of holes in the radon barrier. It could not be saved however one tried to do it. It is a flaw in the way houses are constructed. Another point (I am not suggesting not to install radon barrier) would gas like water want the easier way to exit and when it hits the concrete slab would go out through the soil instead of trying to penetrate concrete, just a thought.

No - not really. You have to remember that the gas is far smaller than the spaces in the concrete. So it is not very difficult for it to permeate throught the slab. Also - there are numerous cracks etc in the slab and it is not very difficult for the radon to get through it.

However - the idea of comparing gas to water is very good if you want to wonder why a very small hole in the radon barrier can render a barrier useless. With even the tiniest tear all the gas can come though straight into the home.

Viking House · 15-06-2007 07:47PM

Isn't there an additive available that you mix with concrete to make it Radon proof. If you are renovating you will probably be considering replacing the floor to put in extra insulation.

De_man · 16-06-2007 01:46PM

Viking House wrote:

Isn't there an additive available that you mix with concrete to make it Radon proof. If you are renovating you will probably be considering replacing the floor to put in extra insulation.

Viking house 100% the site is www.radonseal.com, i've used it to go with my heavy duty (red tyvek) barrier and 2 sumps (with motors just in case)

radioactiveman · 16-06-2007 02:02PM

Hi
my parents live in a house that had no radon barrier installed when we built it and that had quite a bad radon problem (the levels were around the 800 mark which is dangerous). Basically we installed a plastic barrier but it didn't come up and over the walls - so the gas was collecting in the foundations of the house and then rising up through the small gap between the plastic and the walls.
We got rid of it by installing a fan on the outside of the house linked up to vents to extract the gas. It was a firm in wexford that supplied us the equipment. I think it didn't cost any more than 500 euros.
Don't know if this applies to you but if you plan it out you can sort it out fairly economically. We got the levels down to about 10 anyway;)

Viking House · 16-06-2007 04:58PM

Try using 4 preforated drainage pipes (under Radon proof concrete) meeting at the centre of the house at a cross. Connect this to a rising vent pipe on the North side (least used) of the house with a low voltage ventilation motor in the stack.
If you bring moist summer air in under your floor it is important that your Radon barrier is at the warm side of your floor insulation to avoid condensation.

ardara1 · 17-06-2007 12:35AM

outsidethe65 wrote:

Hi all,

I recently inherited an old house and I am looking into revonating it. There was no radon barrier in the house. How important is it to have one? Will it be a big/ expensive job to put one in? I live in west cork.

Any advise?

Cheers,
Ted.

1994 - The Radon thing was just kick off I had a meeting with the main guy in Building Control NI that was researching and monitoring radon in buildings - quote (as I remember it) 'There are more people die in Ireland every year form Radon than die from fire'. Going by this I'd say it's pretty important.
As for VH suggestion that you add an admix to your floor screed/slab - NI Building sontrol want the Radon barrier laid over the floor - thru the wall structure with a reinforced screed supported by the wall - other wise the floor settles and rips the radon barrier. - I'd be very awre if it especially of you are in an area of granite geology.

Viking House · 17-06-2007 09:13AM

Hi Adara

How do you propose putting a Radon barrier under the walls of the existing house?

Timistry · 07-04-2008 11:08PM

they are rubbish. Impossible to get them completely sealed. If you live in an area with granite i would look in to it though as these are high risk areas

smashey · 07-04-2008 11:16PM

Jesus, digging up old threads. Generally, this is frowned upon here unless the OP has something to add.

You're new so I'll let you off with it. Just take this as a nudge in the right direction.

sinnerboy · 07-04-2008 11:22PM

Timistry wrote: »

they are rubbish. Impossible to get them completely sealed. If you live in an area with granite i would look in to it though as these are high risk areas

They are a requiremnt of the building regualtions - together with sumps and vents - no matter where you are in ROI

With appropriate care they can be sealed

muffler · 08-04-2008 12:39AM

Timistry wrote: »

they are rubbish. Impossible to get them completely sealed. If you live in an area with granite i would look in to it though as these are high risk areas

What exactly is your point?

Mellor · 08-04-2008 02:27PM

Timistry wrote: »

they are rubbish. Impossible to get them completely sealed. If you live in an area with granite i would look in to it though as these are high risk areas

Silly post, saying they are rubbish is pointless.
It is true that they are often ripped an torn by careless builders. But they shouldn't be,
regardless of this, the rips let in some radon, no barrier lets in much more.

Then is no such thing a low radon area.

Villain · 08-04-2008 03:00PM

Mellor wrote: »

Then is no such thing a low radon area.

Well there is really:

http://www.alpharadon.ie/graphics/radon_map.gif

pete6296 · 08-04-2008 03:10PM

In relation to the map which i am sure was taken from RPII website, no area is Radon free, whether the levels be high or low. Experimentally, there is no exact way of measurement due to changeable environmental conditions eg. whether a window is opened or closed.

Villain wrote: »

Well there is really:

http://www.alpharadon.ie/graphics/radon_map.gif

Villain · 08-04-2008 03:13PM

I never said anywhere was radon free but Mellor said "There is no such thing a low radon area" when obviously there is low area's.

sinnerboy · 08-04-2008 04:19PM

The barrier is required to ALL parts . Irrespective of the radon map .

Villain · 08-04-2008 04:24PM

Indeed it is but those in a high risk area should ensure it is installed correctly and not damaged, they should also ensure the quality of the radon barrier is good enough.

pete6296 · 08-04-2008 04:28PM

Anyone installing Radon Barrier regardless of area should ensure it is installed correctly, one cannot define a high risk area without valid experimental results to prove it.

Villain wrote: »

Indeed it is but those in a high risk area should ensure it is installed correctly and not damaged, they should also ensure the quality of the radon barrier is good enough.

muffler · 08-04-2008 04:31PM

Villain wrote: »

Well there is really:

http://www.alpharadon.ie/graphics/radon_map.gif

That was a map that was used a number of years ago when people could decide if they were indeed in a high risk area and needed to install, membrane, sump etc.

Thats all changed now. The entire country is treated the same in relation to taking preventative steps against radon entering a building. So there are no "low" or "high" areas any more in this regard.

sydthebeat · 08-04-2008 04:35PM

sinnerboy wrote: »

The barrier is required to ALL parts . Irrespective of the radon map .

have the regs changed?

whilst i agree its best practice, i dont think it is actually a legal necessity in areas of less than 10% detection.

2.10 Dwellings or other long-stay residential
buildings

(a) High Radon Areas: measures should be
taken to protect the building from Radon in
the ground. For example, in the case of a noncomplex
building of normal design and
construction, a fully sealed membrane of low
permeability over the entire footprint of the
building and a potential means of extracting
Radon from the substructure such as a
standby Radon sump or sumps with
connecting pipework or other appropriate
certified systems should be provided.
(b) Areas other than High Radon Areas: the
building should be provided with a potential
means of extracting Radon from the
substructure should that prove necessary after
construction. For example, in the case of a
non-complex building of normal design and
construction, the provision of a standby Radon
sump or sumps with connecting pipework or
other appropriate certified systems should be

adequate.

Villain · 08-04-2008 04:58PM

muffler wrote: »

That was a map that was used a number of years ago when people could decide if they were indeed in a high risk area and needed to install, membrane, sump etc.

Thats all changed now. The entire country is treated the same in relation to taking preventative steps against radon entering a building. So there are no "low" or "high" areas any more in this regard.

I believe you are wrong actually, the measures taken in relation to radon depend on the level in the area.

sinnerboy · 08-04-2008 05:24PM

Villain wrote: »

I believe you are wrong actually, the measures taken in relation to radon depend on the level in the area.

You cant measure radon penetration untill after the building is constructed . An attempt to measure radon levels on a green field is pointless .

Imagine finding out after the event that you actually do need a barrier after all ?

Very foolish to try to "get away" with this one

How important is a radon barrier?

Comments